Re: [ANN] Text-file DBs

[Paul Looney]

Alejandro,

No, we do not use SDB. We looked at it a decade ago and decided to go a 
different route.

Paul Looney


> On Nov 5, 2015, at 3:42 PM, Alejandro Tejada  wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul
> 
> After reading your post, I just remember Serendipity Library:
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2002-September/007745.html
> 
> Do you used this library released by Rob Cozens?
> 
> Al
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: OT: Announce -- Himalayan Academy's First LiveCode Mobile App is Up

[Alejandro Tejada]

Congratulations! :-) 

Could you post screenshots and explain us
how this app works? I am sure that your
experience could be really helpful for many
of us, LiveCode developers.

Alejandro



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OT: Announce -- Himalayan Academy's First LiveCode Mobile App is Up

[Brahmanathaswami]

Jai Ganesha! Wow! we did it!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.himalayanacademy.gurudeva

After years of coding tools for in house production service and then web 
server side scripting... I finally got to do some fun work and build the 
prototype for an app that is a simple thing for the annual memorial of 
our founder... We used to do an ink-on-paper thing but this year we 
decided to do an app.


I want to thank Jacque Landmand Gay for her work on this which was 
amazing, taking my app and turning it into something that actually work 
on Android (I built for iPhone 6 Plus)


I also want to thank the Livecode team in Edinborough for their 
incredibly fast responses to all our bug reports... It seemed like every 
time we logged a bug, they had it fixed in less than 8 hours!


Submitting to Google Play was "child's play"  -- the iOS version is 
coming out soon once I take a breath and put on my mud suit before 
diving into Apple's Preparation for Submission snake pit...


Thanks again to everyone who has supported us through the years! An 
awesome community!


Swasti Astu, Be Well!
Brahmanathaswami

Kauai's Hindu Monastery
www.HimalayanAcademy.com


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Re: garbage collection run amok again in 7.1.1Rc2?

[gcanyon]

I am always in for this. 

gc

gc

> On Nov 5, 2015, at 4:01 PM, J. Landman Gay  wrote:
> 
> It would be an interesting challenge if Richard could supply a sample of a 
> long handler and see if we could reduce it.

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Re: play vc xyz, still stuck in the 80s?

[Alejandro Tejada]

Hi Klaus,

In Linux, we use shell commands:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=18429

Al



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Re: [ANN] Text-file DBs

[Alejandro Tejada]

Hi Paul

After reading your post, I just remember Serendipity Library:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2002-September/007745.html

Do you used this library released by Rob Cozens?

Al



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Re: garbage collection run amok again in 7.1.1Rc2?

[Ali Lloyd]

I have actually seen this myself once whilst running in debug mode from
source, and I think it was stuck in a 'TryToEvaluate' loop for some reason
- I think it can be stopped by doing Cmd + . although that might not be the
same thing.

Anyway, It's worth filing a bug report if there isn't one already.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:25 PM Dr. Hawkins  wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 1:01 PM, J. Landman Gay 
> wrote:
>
> > I think he probably meant "script" rather than "handler." But even my
> most
> > complex project wasn't that long. (If it really is a single handler then
> it
> > isn't written correctly.) When I see numbers like that, my first thought
> is
> > "optimization."
> >
>
> Err, yes; script.
>
> *shudder*
>
> The main stack with support routines has a script of almost 15k lines, the
> output processing script button has over 5k.
>
> I do hit about 800 lines in one routine and 600 in another, counting
> commented out obsolete code and white space; probably only a couple of
> lines each.
>
> These hangs didn't exist to this extent from 5.5 through 7.0, at least,
> although there were a couple of 7.0 series that had shorter lags, and  I've
> seen multi-second lags on changing panes almost since 7.0 rolled around.
>
>
> >It would be an interesting challenge if Richard could supply a sample of a
> long handler and see if we could reduce it.
>
> This is stuff that I very much can't release :)
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
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Re: Livecode all around the world

[Alejandro Tejada]

Many Thanks for your ideas and opinions about
this unusual and very hypothetical topic.

I agree with many of your points of view:
This could works very well in some languages
and not so well in many others... but this should
be tested by Universities, with feedback from
students and professionals alike.

Notice that LiveCode should always run and
compile only English Scripts. So when I write:
Pon 5 en miVariable, LiveCode will understand:
Put 5 into miVariable... but the stack will store
these definitions or translations and use them
in the script editor to show the script in the
user's or developer native language.

The engine will only understand english scripts
but developers will read and use Livecode scripts
in their own language.

Hopefully this could be implemented 
without any modification to the engine.

Al




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Re: garbage collection run amok again in 7.1.1Rc2?

[Dr. Hawkins]

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 1:01 PM, J. Landman Gay 
wrote:

> I think he probably meant "script" rather than "handler." But even my most
> complex project wasn't that long. (If it really is a single handler then it
> isn't written correctly.) When I see numbers like that, my first thought is
> "optimization."
>

Err, yes; script.

*shudder*

The main stack with support routines has a script of almost 15k lines, the
output processing script button has over 5k.

I do hit about 800 lines in one routine and 600 in another, counting
commented out obsolete code and white space; probably only a couple of
lines each.

These hangs didn't exist to this extent from 5.5 through 7.0, at least,
although there were a couple of 7.0 series that had shorter lags, and  I've
seen multi-second lags on changing panes almost since 7.0 rolled around.


>It would be an interesting challenge if Richard could supply a sample of a
long handler and see if we could reduce it.

This is stuff that I very much can't release :)



-- 
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(702) 508-8462
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Re: garbage collection run amok again in 7.1.1Rc2?

[J. Landman Gay]

I think he probably meant "script" rather than "handler." But even my 
most complex project wasn't that long. (If it really is a single handler 
then it isn't written correctly.) When I see numbers like that, my first 
thought is "optimization."


It would be an interesting challenge if Richard could supply a sample of 
a long handler and see if we could reduce it.



On 11/5/2015 2:49 PM, John Dixon wrote:

10,000 lines in one liveCode handler ?... really !?... I don't think, .. no, I 
know that I have never written a stack that has 10,000 lines in it in total...


Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 09:04:46 -0800
Subject: garbage collection run amok again in 7.1.1Rc2?
From: doch...@gmail.com
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com

I am seeing the *long*, as in several seconds, delays again when making
changes in long (10k+ line) handlers.  A minor edit, and off to la-la land.

Are others being this?

--
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462



--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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RE: garbage collection run amok again in 7.1.1Rc2?

[John Dixon]

10,000 lines in one liveCode handler ?... really !?... I don't think, .. no, I 
know that I have never written a stack that has 10,000 lines in it in total...

> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 09:04:46 -0800
> Subject: garbage collection run amok again in 7.1.1Rc2?
> From: doch...@gmail.com
> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> 
> I am seeing the *long*, as in several seconds, delays again when making
> changes in long (10k+ line) handlers.  A minor edit, and off to la-la land.
> 
> Are others being this?
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
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Re: HTML5 product

[Monte Goulding]

> On 6 Nov 2015, at 7:10 am, Peter TB Brett  wrote:
> 
> Yes! There's a discussion & examples here on the forums:
> 
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=25345 
> 
Interesting. So is there any plans for the company to host the files? I see you 
can add stuff to cdnjs by sending them a PR. That might be a good option.
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Re: Livecode all around the world

[Sri]

RH wrote
> I would not go further then that, just replacing word by word. But I
> wonder
> how that would sound in German for example: "put x into button y" -  "Lege
> x in Knopf y"? Too funny. There is no equivalent even for a simple word
> such as "put" or "button" which would give exactly the same idea. 

I mean a 1 to 1 correspondence but not word for word. It can be a camelCase
phrase (as long as it needs to be to make sense) for word. Of course, it
would still be "unnatural" language approach! But, it might be better than
"English or nothing" option. Some languages are going to lend themselves
better than others, but imagine if we have this option in Mandarin, Spanish,
Portuguese, and Hindi. If even a small fraction of non-English speakers from
those milieus are tempted to give LiveCode a try, it would be worth it.
Remember, at any time they can click a button and the entire script appears
in English. Since no one (no programmer, that is) is completely
English-ignorant, switching back and forth will facilitate learning and
using the language and eventually switching to English script.

Regards,
Sri 




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Re: Livecode all around the world

[Matt Maier]

I think there would still be people who want to be able to type "your
synonym here" instead of "sudo." And that would still not help them
understand what sudo does and it would still interfere with any attempt
they make to research or ask for help.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Bob Sneidar 
wrote:

> I see. Well then, let's toss out all the graphical OS'es ever written and
> go back to command line computing. Is seems the great exiperiment has
> failed.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2015, at 11:25 , Matt Maier  bluebac...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I disagree. All of the responsibility for understanding is on the
> programmer. The hard part is teaching the programmer to understand the
> software. Once that happens the programmer can easily make the software
> understand. The hard part is thinking like software. Giving every single
> student a unique set of symbols that minimizes their personal memorization
> time is small potatoes compared to teaching them what the thing they
> memorized really means.
>
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Re: HTML5 product

[Peter TB Brett]

On 05/11/2015 20:03, Monte Goulding wrote:



On 6 Nov 2015, at 6:50 am, Peter TB Brett  wrote:

* The LiveCode engine, compiled to a (large) JavaScript file.  This is the same 
for every standalone created with a particular version of LiveCode

* A special ".html.mem" file that's used for engine initialisation. This is 
also the same for every standalone.


Peter I haven’t looked at this for a while. Will we have the option of 
delivering these two files from a common LiveCode server (or better yet using 
something like cloudfront) so that users can cache the engine once for multiple 
apps from multiple developers or is that not going to work?


Yes! There's a discussion & examples here on the forums:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=25345

  Peter

--
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LiveCode Open Source Team

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Re: Livecode all around the world

[Bob Sneidar]

I see. Well then, let's toss out all the graphical OS'es ever written and go 
back to command line computing. Is seems the great exiperiment has failed.

Bob S


On Nov 5, 2015, at 11:25 , Matt Maier 
mailto:bluebac...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I disagree. All of the responsibility for understanding is on the
programmer. The hard part is teaching the programmer to understand the
software. Once that happens the programmer can easily make the software
understand. The hard part is thinking like software. Giving every single
student a unique set of symbols that minimizes their personal memorization
time is small potatoes compared to teaching them what the thing they
memorized really means.

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Re: HTML5 product

[Monte Goulding]

> On 6 Nov 2015, at 6:50 am, Peter TB Brett  wrote:
> 
> * The LiveCode engine, compiled to a (large) JavaScript file.  This is the 
> same for every standalone created with a particular version of LiveCode
> 
> * A special ".html.mem" file that's used for engine initialisation. This is 
> also the same for every standalone.

Peter I haven’t looked at this for a while. Will we have the option of 
delivering these two files from a common LiveCode server (or better yet using 
something like cloudfront) so that users can cache the engine once for multiple 
apps from multiple developers or is that not going to work?

Cheers

Monte
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Re: 'Quit' mystery

[Howard Bornstein]

I've updated the bug report with Martin's solution in case anyone else runs
into this.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 5:20 AM, paolo mazza 
wrote:

> Nearly 1 year ago I posted this
> http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14263  .
> It was confirmed but probably it has not been fixed yet.
> All the best,
> Paolo
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 4:47 AM, Howard Bornstein 
> wrote:
> > This really helped me out. Thanks Martin! I couldn't get my standalone to
> > quit no matter what. This did the trick.
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Martin Koob  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> It has been a long time since I set this up in my application so I don't
> >> remember exactly the logic as to why I set this up this way but it
> seems to
> >> work.  The main stack has several substacks which may be open when quit
> is
> >> selected from the menu.
> >>
> >> Each of the substacks' scripts have a shutdownRequest handler but not a
> >> 'pass shutdownRequest' command.  This handler sends a prepareToQuit
> command
> >> to the main card of the main stack.
> >>
> >> substack stack script
> >> ---
> >> on shutdownRequest
> >>send "preparetoquit" to card "main" of stack "mainstack"
> >> end shutdownRequest
> >> --
> >> The main card of the main stack has the prepareToQuit handler which just
> >> has
> >> a quit command.  This triggers the shutdownRequest handler in the main
> >> card.
> >> This shutdownRequest handler has all of the code you want implemented
> >> before
> >> quitting.  This handler has the 'pass shutdownRequest' command that
> allows
> >> the application to quit.
> >>
> >> Mainstack >card "main" script
> >> ---
> >> on preparetoquit
> >> quit
> >> end preparetoquit
> >>
> >> on shutdownRequest
> >> 
> >>
> >> pass shutdownRequest
> >> end shutdownRequest
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >>
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Quit-mystery-tp4672924p4672933.html
> >> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> >
> > Howard Bornstein
> > ---
> > www.designeq.com
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Regards,

Howard Bornstein
---
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Re: HTML5 product

[Peter TB Brett]

On 05/11/2015 18:36, j...@souslelogo.com wrote:



HTML5 support in community and commercial is identical, except that you
can't make closed-source apps with the community edition.


just curious, what does that mean exactly ?
does the " closed-source apps" thing concern only regular standalones, or
does it also concern the HTML5 code with js obfuscation ?


The "HTML5 standalone" is actually 4 files:

* An HTML page

* The LiveCode engine, compiled to a (large) JavaScript file.  This is 
the same for every standalone created with a particular version of LiveCode


* A special ".html.mem" file that's used for engine initialisation. 
This is also the same for every standalone.


* A zip file, which contains the stacks, resources, fonts, etc. that 
make up your app.  This is the thing that's made by the standalone builder.


If you use the community edition, the zip file with your app in it can 
be downloaded by anyone who views the web page.  They can open it and 
play around with your app using the LiveCode IDE.


If you use the commercial edition, you have the option of encrypting 
your LiveCode stack files so that no-one can look at your code, even if 
they download and unpack the standalone's zip file.


   Peter


--
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LiveCode Open Source Team

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Re: HTML5 product

[Matt Maier]

It means the license for community forbids you from applying a
closed-source license to the standalones you compile using the community
IDE.

Since you didn't pay for the community IDE, you can do whatever you want
open source. If you want to close the source of your work you need to buy a
commercial license.
On Nov 5, 2015 10:36,  wrote:

>
> > HTML5 support in community and commercial is identical, except that you
> > can't make closed-source apps with the community edition.
>
> just curious, what does that mean exactly ?
> does the " closed-source apps" thing concern only regular standalones, or
> does it also concern the HTML5 code with js obfuscation ?
> Thanks
> jbv
>
>
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Re: Livecode all around the world

[Matt Maier]

On Nov 5, 2015 10:32, "Bob Sneidar"  wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2015, at 10:20 , Matt Maier > wrote:
>
> The human-understandable symbols are arbitrary so the fact that Livecode's
> symbols are derived from English words is missing the point. The symbol
> "put" could be "123XYZ" for all the computer cares.
>
> It's not the computer that is caring, it's the programmer.
>
> The learning curve for
> memorizing the symbols isn't all that much shorter when the symbols are
> conceptually related to symbols you already know either.
>
> That I find extremely difficult to accept. If I could *only* progam in LC
in the German language, I would not be here today.
>
> The hard part
> about programming is learning to clarify your thinking using the tools
> provided. Remembering the symbol associated with the tools is easy,
> especially after you do it for a while and you really start to grok how
> arbitrary the symbols are.
>
> What I "grok" is that Livecode is especially easy for "the rest of us"
developers *PRECICELY* because we don't have to learn a complex syntax. And
by "we" I mean the english speaking among us. Switch to pictograms and I
believe you will have killed Livecode. As far as other languages, if
someone can develop a means to have an interpreter understand the
"german-like" syntax of their code, or any other language -like syntax, all
well and good.
>
> But the real key is making the software understand us. Not the other way
around.

I disagree. All of the responsibility for understanding is on the
programmer. The hard part is teaching the programmer to understand the
software. Once that happens the programmer can easily make the software
understand. The hard part is thinking like software. Giving every single
student a unique set of symbols that minimizes their personal memorization
time is small potatoes compared to teaching them what the thing they
memorized really means.

Additionally, providing unlimited synonyms would probably make it a lot
harder to learn how to think. If each student is literally thinking in
their own language then they not only need the software to translate for
the engine, they also need the software to translate when they talk to
other programmers.

A parser for the IDE wouldn't be enough. We'd also need a plugin for Google
that translates what you're asking for help on and then translates the
results.

Those were the dark ages of computing. No one wants to go back there.
>
> My 2¢
> Bob S
>
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Re: [ANN] Text-file DBs

[David Bovill]

Thanks Paul - I'd be really interested in helping / proof reading / asking
stupid questions :)

On 5 November 2015 at 17:57, Paul Looney  wrote:

> David, Sri, Robert, Bruce, Matt,
>
> Sorry you can’t come tonight. I understand that little "distance problem”.
>
> The presentation will not be recorded. It is hard enough preparing all of
> the material without spending a couple days deciding what to wear. ;-)
>
> I have been working on a small book (originally 12 pages, now over 80
> pages and growing) tentatively titled “Accelerated Data Processing with
> LiveCode” - based on my 30+ years experience with data processing and
> decade with Revolution/Rev/LiveCode. There are still two chapters to
> finish. The last of these is on Text File DBs. I hope to finish it by the
> end of the year. It will be released under the Creative Commons license and
> free for downloading.
>
> Here are the chapters (let me know if I missed something, I almost forgot
> to have a chapter on CSV - a subject about which I have strong feelings):
>
> I. Have the computer time the process
> II.Indicate that the process is still in process
> III.   Lock Screen - or don’t
> IV.   Lock Messages - or don’t
> V.Move data to be processed from fields to variables
> VI.   Fields, Variables, and Custom Properties
> VII.  Filter data before other processing
> VIII. Calculate fixed variables once per repeat loop
> IX.   Use “Put” instead of “Get and Put” where appropriate
> X.Use multiple single filters - not compound filters
> XI.   Use “Repeat for…” instead of “Repeat with i = …”
> XII.  Sorts: “forwards”, “backwards”, & “sideways”
> XIII. Choosing Delimiters (CSV must die!)
> XIV. A word about Arrays, Keys, and Record IDs
> XV.  Cards, Relational Databases, and Text Files
> XVI. “SQL” & Relational Databases
> XVII. Using “Text File” Databases
>
> Each chapter has many code samples.
> The Text File chapter will show, step by step, how to create the text
> file, itself - with code samples for both the server and the clients. I’ve
> been working on that chapter for a month but still don’t know how big it
> will be - other than “as big as it needs to be” - there is no publisher
> dictating chapter or book length.
>
> I appreciate your interest.
>
> Paul Looney
>
>
>
> > On Nov 5, 2015, at 9:12 AM, David Bovill  wrote:
> >
> > Paul I'd love to see the presentation - would be great if you could
> record
> > it or we could arrange to do it as an online session with people from the
> > list?
> >
> > On 3 November 2015 at 05:02, Paul Looney  wrote:
> >
> >> This coming Thursday evening, Nov. 5th, I will doing a presentation on
> >> Text-file Databases at the So. Cal. LUG meeting. If you have wondered
> >> whether there is some data processing option between the limits of
> >> card-file databases and complexity of SQL RDBMS, come and find out. I
> will
> >> show how to build a multi-user, client/server database management
> system -
> >> entirely in LiveCode.
> >>
> >> The monthly meeting <
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25476>
> >> is held at Dupar’s in Pasadena. The food is good and the gang is great.
> >>
> >> Paul Looney
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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Re: HTML5 product

[jbv]

> HTML5 support in community and commercial is identical, except that you
> can't make closed-source apps with the community edition.

just curious, what does that mean exactly ?
does the " closed-source apps" thing concern only regular standalones, or
does it also concern the HTML5 code with js obfuscation ?
Thanks
jbv


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Re: Livecode all around the world

[Bob Sneidar]

On Nov 5, 2015, at 10:20 , Matt Maier 
mailto:bluebac...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The human-understandable symbols are arbitrary so the fact that Livecode's
symbols are derived from English words is missing the point. The symbol
"put" could be "123XYZ" for all the computer cares.

It's not the computer that is caring, it's the programmer.

The learning curve for
memorizing the symbols isn't all that much shorter when the symbols are
conceptually related to symbols you already know either.

That I find extremely difficult to accept. If I could *only* progam in LC in 
the German language, I would not be here today.

The hard part
about programming is learning to clarify your thinking using the tools
provided. Remembering the symbol associated with the tools is easy,
especially after you do it for a while and you really start to grok how
arbitrary the symbols are.

What I "grok" is that Livecode is especially easy for "the rest of us" 
developers *PRECICELY* because we don't have to learn a complex syntax. And by 
"we" I mean the english speaking among us. Switch to pictograms and I believe 
you will have killed Livecode. As far as other languages, if someone can 
develop a means to have an interpreter understand the "german-like" syntax of 
their code, or any other language -like syntax, all well and good.

But the real key is making the software understand us. Not the other way 
around. Those were the dark ages of computing. No one wants to go back there.

My 2¢
Bob S

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Re: Livecode all around the world

[Matt Maier]

Maybe you could just replace the words with pictograms so it's language
independent.
put: https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=put

The human-understandable symbols are arbitrary so the fact that Livecode's
symbols are derived from English words is missing the point. The symbol
"put" could be "123XYZ" for all the computer cares. The learning curve for
memorizing the symbols isn't all that much shorter when the symbols are
conceptually related to symbols you already know either. The hard part
about programming is learning to clarify your thinking using the tools
provided. Remembering the symbol associated with the tools is easy,
especially after you do it for a while and you really start to grok how
arbitrary the symbols are.

Some of the simplest symbols in Livecode are "of" and "in" and I still have
to look up in the dictionary which one to use every time I try to use them.
If they were "ng" and "sa" (which is what google translate says is the
Filipino translation) or "od" and "u" (Croatian) or "el" and "en"
(Esperanto) they'd be just as hard to remember.

Seems like it would be more useful to translate the Livecode dictionary
into a bunch of languages than to translate the syntax of the script. That
being said, there is precedent for non-English programming languages, and
even languages based on symbols
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages

I've only put effort into learning Livecode, so when I see Python or
JavaScript code it might as well be written in Kanji for all the sense I
can make of it.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Bob Sneidar 
wrote:

> +1
>
> Anyone who has developed in dBase or it's derivatives understands what it
> means to speak English, and *STILL* have to learn a completely different
> development language!
>
> BTW Google Translate has it "legte x in y -Taste". Dutch, argueably close
> to German has it "zet x -knop in y".
>
> Still think this is a good idea??
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2015, at 09:24 , Roland Huettmann  > wrote:
>
> I would not go further then that, just replacing word by word. But I wonder
> how that would sound in German for example: "put x into button y" -  "Lege
> x in Knopf y"? Too funny. There is no equivalent even for a simple word
> such as "put" or "button" which would give exactly the same idea. The
> problem is that the whole construct would have to be different. Let the
> young people learn a few English words! The profit for them will be much
> greater. There is no way back living with all those English terms
> everywhere anyway. Computer programming language - besides underlying Bits
> and Bytes -  should be understood by everyone. And that was the aim even
> when Assembler started. The user interface can always be in the native
> language. That is enough. And sometimes difficult enough. Or...?) Roland
>
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: [ANN] Text-file DBs

[Paul Looney]

David, Sri, Robert, Bruce, Matt,

Sorry you can’t come tonight. I understand that little "distance problem”.

The presentation will not be recorded. It is hard enough preparing all of the 
material without spending a couple days deciding what to wear. ;-)

I have been working on a small book (originally 12 pages, now over 80 pages and 
growing) tentatively titled “Accelerated Data Processing with LiveCode” - based 
on my 30+ years experience with data processing and decade with 
Revolution/Rev/LiveCode. There are still two chapters to finish. The last of 
these is on Text File DBs. I hope to finish it by the end of the year. It will 
be released under the Creative Commons license and free for downloading.

Here are the chapters (let me know if I missed something, I almost forgot to 
have a chapter on CSV - a subject about which I have strong feelings):

I. Have the computer time the process
II.Indicate that the process is still in process
III.   Lock Screen - or don’t
IV.   Lock Messages - or don’t
V.Move data to be processed from fields to variables
VI.   Fields, Variables, and Custom Properties
VII.  Filter data before other processing
VIII. Calculate fixed variables once per repeat loop
IX.   Use “Put” instead of “Get and Put” where appropriate
X.Use multiple single filters - not compound filters
XI.   Use “Repeat for…” instead of “Repeat with i = …”
XII.  Sorts: “forwards”, “backwards”, & “sideways”
XIII. Choosing Delimiters (CSV must die!)
XIV. A word about Arrays, Keys, and Record IDs
XV.  Cards, Relational Databases, and Text Files
XVI. “SQL” & Relational Databases
XVII. Using “Text File” Databases

Each chapter has many code samples.
The Text File chapter will show, step by step, how to create the text file, 
itself - with code samples for both the server and the clients. I’ve been 
working on that chapter for a month but still don’t know how big it will be - 
other than “as big as it needs to be” - there is no publisher dictating chapter 
or book length.

I appreciate your interest.

Paul Looney



> On Nov 5, 2015, at 9:12 AM, David Bovill  wrote:
> 
> Paul I'd love to see the presentation - would be great if you could record
> it or we could arrange to do it as an online session with people from the
> list?
> 
> On 3 November 2015 at 05:02, Paul Looney  wrote:
> 
>> This coming Thursday evening, Nov. 5th, I will doing a presentation on
>> Text-file Databases at the So. Cal. LUG meeting. If you have wondered
>> whether there is some data processing option between the limits of
>> card-file databases and complexity of SQL RDBMS, come and find out. I will
>> show how to build a multi-user, client/server database management system -
>> entirely in LiveCode.
>> 
>> The monthly meeting 
>> is held at Dupar’s in Pasadena. The food is good and the gang is great.
>> 
>> Paul Looney
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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Re: [ANN] Text-file DBs

[Matt Maier]

I can bring my webcam in case it's useful.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 9:12 AM, David Bovill  wrote:

> Paul I'd love to see the presentation - would be great if you could record
> it or we could arrange to do it as an online session with people from the
> list?
>
> On 3 November 2015 at 05:02, Paul Looney  wrote:
>
> > This coming Thursday evening, Nov. 5th, I will doing a presentation on
> > Text-file Databases at the So. Cal. LUG meeting. If you have wondered
> > whether there is some data processing option between the limits of
> > card-file databases and complexity of SQL RDBMS, come and find out. I
> will
> > show how to build a multi-user, client/server database management system
> -
> > entirely in LiveCode.
> >
> > The monthly meeting <
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25476>
> > is held at Dupar’s in Pasadena. The food is good and the gang is great.
> >
> > Paul Looney
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Livecode all around the world

[Bob Sneidar]

+1

Anyone who has developed in dBase or it's derivatives understands what it means 
to speak English, and *STILL* have to learn a completely different development 
language!

BTW Google Translate has it "legte x in y -Taste". Dutch, argueably close to 
German has it "zet x -knop in y".

Still think this is a good idea??

Bob S


On Nov 5, 2015, at 09:24 , Roland Huettmann 
mailto:roland.huettm...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I would not go further then that, just replacing word by word. But I wonder
how that would sound in German for example: "put x into button y" -  "Lege
x in Knopf y"? Too funny. There is no equivalent even for a simple word
such as "put" or "button" which would give exactly the same idea. The
problem is that the whole construct would have to be different. Let the
young people learn a few English words! The profit for them will be much
greater. There is no way back living with all those English terms
everywhere anyway. Computer programming language - besides underlying Bits
and Bytes -  should be understood by everyone. And that was the aim even
when Assembler started. The user interface can always be in the native
language. That is enough. And sometimes difficult enough. Or...?) Roland

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Re: garbage collection run amok again in 7.1.1Rc2?

[Bob Sneidar]

I was under the impression that very long scripts take some time to compile. If 
this has been addressed and this was no longer the case, I am very surprised 
and curious how they managed that. It would mean that scripts are now indexed 
somehow so only the relevant parts of the scripts are recompiled and then 
reinserted into the already compiled bit. 

It may or may not be helpful to point out that what developers are actually 
used to is minor edits followed by a lengthy recompile/debug cyclethat can take 
several minutes to hours depending on the extent of the code base. The nature 
of Livecode spares us that. 

Personally, several seconds does not bother me much as it gives me time to 
reach over and get a sip of coffee. 

HTH

Bob S


> On Nov 5, 2015, at 09:04 , Dr. Hawkins  wrote:
> 
> I am seeing the *long*, as in several seconds, delays again when making
> changes in long (10k+ line) handlers.  A minor edit, and off to la-la land.
> 
> Are others being this?
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
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Re: Livecode all around the world

[dunbarx]

Sri.


I had suggested something similar last year, say for Italian. The thinking was 
that a word-for-word substitution is not robust enough. Language syntax, 
(native verb placement in a sentence, for example) would break such a system 
right away. The thread is on the use-list somewhere.


Craig



-Original Message-
From: Sri 
To: use-revolution 
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2015 11:43 am
Subject: Re: Livecode all around the world


If you assign a word in, say, Mandarin for every LiveCode-specific word
or
phrase (keyword, command, message, etc.), it will be a cheap (if
stilted)
solution to the problem. The added advantage is translation of an
entire
application script to any language at the click of a button and back.
There
are clear limitations to this approach, of course, but you can't beat
the
cost-benefit.

Regards,
Sri



--
View this message in context:
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from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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Re: Livecode all around the world

[Roland Huettmann]

I would not go further then that, just replacing word by word. But I wonder
how that would sound in German for example: "put x into button y" -  "Lege
x in Knopf y"? Too funny. There is no equivalent even for a simple word
such as "put" or "button" which would give exactly the same idea. The
problem is that the whole construct would have to be different. Let the
young people learn a few English words! The profit for them will be much
greater. There is no way back living with all those English terms
everywhere anyway. Computer programming language - besides underlying Bits
and Bytes -  should be understood by everyone. And that was the aim even
when Assembler started. The user interface can always be in the native
language. That is enough. And sometimes difficult enough. Or...?) Roland

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015, 17:43 Sri  wrote:

> If you assign a word in, say, Mandarin for every LiveCode-specific word or
> phrase (keyword, command, message, etc.), it will be a cheap (if stilted)
> solution to the problem. The added advantage is translation of an entire
> application script to any language at the click of a button and back. There
> are clear limitations to this approach, of course, but you can't beat the
> cost-benefit.
>
> Regards,
> Sri
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Livecode-all-around-the-world-tp4698473p4698487.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: [ANN] Text-file DBs

[David Bovill]

Paul I'd love to see the presentation - would be great if you could record
it or we could arrange to do it as an online session with people from the
list?

On 3 November 2015 at 05:02, Paul Looney  wrote:

> This coming Thursday evening, Nov. 5th, I will doing a presentation on
> Text-file Databases at the So. Cal. LUG meeting. If you have wondered
> whether there is some data processing option between the limits of
> card-file databases and complexity of SQL RDBMS, come and find out. I will
> show how to build a multi-user, client/server database management system -
> entirely in LiveCode.
>
> The monthly meeting 
> is held at Dupar’s in Pasadena. The food is good and the gang is great.
>
> Paul Looney
>
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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garbage collection run amok again in 7.1.1Rc2?

[Dr. Hawkins]

I am seeing the *long*, as in several seconds, delays again when making
changes in long (10k+ line) handlers.  A minor edit, and off to la-la land.

Are others being this?

-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: Livecode all around the world

[Sri]

If you assign a word in, say, Mandarin for every LiveCode-specific word or
phrase (keyword, command, message, etc.), it will be a cheap (if stilted)
solution to the problem. The added advantage is translation of an entire
application script to any language at the click of a button and back. There
are clear limitations to this approach, of course, but you can't beat the
cost-benefit.

Regards,
Sri



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Re: HTML5 product

[Glen Bojsza]

Thanks Peter,

Your response and details (which are really nice pointers : helpful) make
me feel comfortable enough to go ahead and purchase it.

regards,

Glen

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Peter TB Brett 
wrote:

> On 05/11/2015 15:30, Glen Bojsza wrote:
>
>> I was wondering if anyone knows the current state of the HTML5 product
>> that
>> is being sold.
>>
>
> I do!  I am the lead developer in the core dev team for the HTML5 platform.
>
> My concern is that if I buy a 1 year license and it needs so many releases
>> before it is developed well enough to deploy than am I buying too early?
>>
>
> People are already deploying apps to HTML5, so arguably it *is* "developed
> well enough to deploy"!  On the other hand, it may not have everything that
> *you* need for *your* app working yet.  I suggest trying it out and seeing
> what you think.
>
> When the product site has "Are there limitations to HTML5 deployment?" then
>> this seems to be a red flag to me...is there a list of the limitations? Is
>> datagrid supported?
>>
>
> Firstly: yes, the datagrid is supported.
>
> There's an "HTML5 Deployment" guide included with the IDE in all editions,
> and it describes the current things that work (and don't work).  You can
> also read it online here:
>
>
>
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/HTML5%20Deployment.md
>
> Needless to say, there are limitations.  You can look at the current bugs
> filed against HTML5 on the bug tracker:
>
> http://goo.gl/exZYQ3
>
> Also, here are my own personal notes [1] about the current state of HTML5
> platform support and things I think we should work on:
>
> https://gist.github.com/peter-b/0bb57cc2fe2f065b00f6
>
> Is HTML5 part of the community code base or is it only commercial? I
>> remember that you could only try HTML5 with the community version of LC so
>> can I assume that it is part of the community version still?
>>
>
> HTML5 support in community and commercial is identical, except that you
> can't make closed-source apps with the community edition.
>
> Can anyone share their current recent experiences with HTML5 so I can make
>> a better decision.
>>
>
> The HTML5 section of the forums has lots of examples that might help you
> out:
>
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=120
>
> Hermann in particular has a bunch of really impressive demos:
>
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=25210
>
> From my perspective, the feedback I've received so far has been very
> positive.
>
>   Peter
>
> [1] Standard disclaimers: if it's on this list, it doesn't mean it will be
> done; if it's not on the list, it doesn't mean it won't be done; this list
> is not expected to be kept up-to-date or even to continue to exist.
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett 
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>
> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode
>
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Save Stack very slow in Windows 7

[dfepstein]

I have for years successfully run a set of stacks using LiveCode 5.5.3 in 
Windows 7.  Recently certain operations have become painfully slow (Windows 
says "not responding" for 2 minutes or so, but eventually does respond and the 
operation is completed). 
Setting some breakpoints to investigate, I discovered that the bottleneck 
commands are 2 simple "Save stack x" statements.  The stacks being saved are 
2.3 and 0.3 megabytes. 
The same stacks run without problem using LiveCode 5.5 on Mac OSX.  And until 
recently they ran well on Windows 7. 
Has anyone had this experience, or an idea for a remedy? 
Thanks very much. 
David Epstein 
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Re: [ANN] Text-file DBs

[Sri]

Robert Brenstein wrote
> ... Do you have any files that you can share?

+1
By any chance, you can record and throw it on YouTube?
Something I'd really like to attend. Only 2500 miles away!

Regards,
Sri




--
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-Text-file-DBs-tp4698379p4698484.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: HTML5 product

[Bob Sneidar]

Suddenly, I am keenly aware of the certainty of my own mortality.  ;-)

Bob S


On Nov 5, 2015, at 07:46 , Peter TB Brett 
mailto:peter.br...@livecode.com>> wrote:

[1] Standard disclaimers: if it's on this list, it doesn't mean it will be 
done; if it's not on the list, it doesn't mean it won't be done; this list is 
not expected to be kept up-to-date or even to continue to exist.

--
Dr Peter Brett

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Re: Release 8.0.0 DP 8

[Bob Sneidar]

Not to stir up a firestorm, but the vast majority of the refugees are younger 
males typically without families. As always, there is more to the story than 
anyone is being told.

Bob S


On Nov 4, 2015, at 22:31 , Richmond 
mailto:richmondmathew...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yup: that word "transient" sounds a wee bit "anti": we should all count 
ourselves
extremely fortunate that nasty people are not bombing the f*ck out of our homes
so we have to run for our lives.

R.

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Re: HTML5 product

[Peter TB Brett]

On 05/11/2015 15:30, Glen Bojsza wrote:

I was wondering if anyone knows the current state of the HTML5 product that
is being sold.


I do!  I am the lead developer in the core dev team for the HTML5 platform.


My concern is that if I buy a 1 year license and it needs so many releases
before it is developed well enough to deploy than am I buying too early?


People are already deploying apps to HTML5, so arguably it *is* 
"developed well enough to deploy"!  On the other hand, it may not have 
everything that *you* need for *your* app working yet.  I suggest trying 
it out and seeing what you think.



When the product site has "Are there limitations to HTML5 deployment?" then
this seems to be a red flag to me...is there a list of the limitations? Is
datagrid supported?


Firstly: yes, the datagrid is supported.

There's an "HTML5 Deployment" guide included with the IDE in all 
editions, and it describes the current things that work (and don't 
work).  You can also read it online here:



https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/HTML5%20Deployment.md

Needless to say, there are limitations.  You can look at the current 
bugs filed against HTML5 on the bug tracker:


http://goo.gl/exZYQ3

Also, here are my own personal notes [1] about the current state of 
HTML5 platform support and things I think we should work on:


https://gist.github.com/peter-b/0bb57cc2fe2f065b00f6


Is HTML5 part of the community code base or is it only commercial? I
remember that you could only try HTML5 with the community version of LC so
can I assume that it is part of the community version still?


HTML5 support in community and commercial is identical, except that you 
can't make closed-source apps with the community edition.



Can anyone share their current recent experiences with HTML5 so I can make
a better decision.


The HTML5 section of the forums has lots of examples that might help you 
out:


http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=120

Hermann in particular has a bunch of really impressive demos:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=25210

From my perspective, the feedback I've received so far has been very 
positive.


  Peter

[1] Standard disclaimers: if it's on this list, it doesn't mean it will 
be done; if it's not on the list, it doesn't mean it won't be done; this 
list is not expected to be kept up-to-date or even to continue to exist.


--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode

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HTML5 product

[Glen Bojsza]

I was wondering if anyone knows the current state of the HTML5 product that
is being sold.

My concern is that if I buy a 1 year license and it needs so many releases
before it is developed well enough to deploy than am I buying too early?

When the product site has "Are there limitations to HTML5 deployment?" then
this seems to be a red flag to me...is there a list of the limitations? Is
datagrid supported?

Is HTML5 part of the community code base or is it only commercial? I
remember that you could only try HTML5 with the community version of LC so
can I assume that it is part of the community version still?

Can anyone share their current recent experiences with HTML5 so I can make
a better decision.

thanks,

Glen
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Re: [ANN] Text-file DBs

[Robert Brenstein]

I wish I could come. I am tasked to build exactly such a thing for 
the department. Do you have any files that you can share?


RObert

On 02.11.2015 at 21:02 Uhr -0800 Paul Looney apparently wrote:
This coming Thursday evening, Nov. 5th, I will doing a presentation 
on Text-file Databases at the So. Cal. LUG meeting. If you have 
wondered whether there is some data processing option between the 
limits of card-file databases and complexity of SQL RDBMS, come and 
find out. I will show how to build a multi-user, client/server 
database management system - entirely in LiveCode.


The monthly meeting 
 is held at 
Dupar's in Pasadena. The food is good and the gang is great.


Paul Looney


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play vc xyz, still stuck in the 80s?

[Klaus major-k]

Hi all,

after years of neglecting the „play“ command on the desktop
due to too few supported file formats, I read an encouraging posting
from Richard G. here on the list, where he told us that much had been 
done in this respect in Livecode, I decided to give it another try:

on mouseUp
  play videoclip "/Users/klaus/Movies/IMG_0008.mp4"
  put the result
end mouseUp 

Pretty straightforward, but no video, empty result!?
Event imported that file, no video.
Played with „the dontuseqt“, no vieo.
Added "…at the loc of this cd“ no video.

Tried with 7.1.1 RC2 and LC 8 DP7.

Any hints? 
Am I missing something, or is my subject line still true, more or less? 8-)

Thanks in advance!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: 'Quit' mystery

[paolo mazza]

Nearly 1 year ago I posted this
http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14263  .
It was confirmed but probably it has not been fixed yet.
All the best,
Paolo

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 4:47 AM, Howard Bornstein  wrote:
> This really helped me out. Thanks Martin! I couldn't get my standalone to
> quit no matter what. This did the trick.
>
> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Martin Koob  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> It has been a long time since I set this up in my application so I don't
>> remember exactly the logic as to why I set this up this way but it seems to
>> work.  The main stack has several substacks which may be open when quit is
>> selected from the menu.
>>
>> Each of the substacks' scripts have a shutdownRequest handler but not a
>> 'pass shutdownRequest' command.  This handler sends a prepareToQuit command
>> to the main card of the main stack.
>>
>> substack stack script
>> ---
>> on shutdownRequest
>>send "preparetoquit" to card "main" of stack "mainstack"
>> end shutdownRequest
>> --
>> The main card of the main stack has the prepareToQuit handler which just
>> has
>> a quit command.  This triggers the shutdownRequest handler in the main
>> card.
>> This shutdownRequest handler has all of the code you want implemented
>> before
>> quitting.  This handler has the 'pass shutdownRequest' command that allows
>> the application to quit.
>>
>> Mainstack >card "main" script
>> ---
>> on preparetoquit
>> quit
>> end preparetoquit
>>
>> on shutdownRequest
>> 
>>
>> pass shutdownRequest
>> end shutdownRequest
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Quit-mystery-tp4672924p4672933.html
>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Howard Bornstein
> ---
> www.designeq.com
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