Re: LiveCode and Websockets

[Charles Warwick via use-livecode]

Hi Bob,

The external is still in development, so I have not yet uploaded any 
information or documentation to the web.  I am happy to send you the latest 
beta version along with a few sample scripts if you are interested, just send 
me an e-mail directly.

Regards,

Charles

> On 25 Nov 2018, at 12:44 am, "b...@bobhall.net"  wrote:
> 
> Charles,
> 
> I would like to find out more about your socket external specifically for 
> websockets. Can you point me to where I can find out about the socket 
> external?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bob Hall
> 
>> On Nov 23, 2018, at 1:10 AM, Charles Warwick via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Todd,
>> 
>> Depending on what platforms you need to support, I have a socket external 
>> for LiveCode that includes the ability to use websockets.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Charles
> 
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Re: Quit an Android

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

The user isn't asking for a way to quit, just for a controlled exit. 
Typically this is done from the entry screen (the Home stack in this case) 
when the Back button is pressed. Right now the app says "you are home" and 
blocks the backKey message. Instead, ask if they want to quit and if so, 
pass backKey. That allows Android to take over and the user will be taken 
to their launcher or whatever app they were using before yours.


Some apps skip the dialog and just allow the user to leave seamlessly, it's 
up to you. It only takes one time for the user to know what will happen. 
Both methods are common.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On November 25, 2018 7:02:58 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Yay! The SivaSiva app works well on Android. 1 ½ years in the making!

I have two requests that there be way to quit the app.

But I recall you telling me that "User knows how to quit." And that  "quit" 
was not an important function in the app itself.


I may not have got that right… or maybe there are nuances about the way 
Android works.  Can you remind to Best Practice?


I was thinking of making the bottom  "Home" button return a dialog.

"You are home. You like to quit?"
  Cancel. | OK


Congratulations to you and the development team! Such an all-inclusive app! 
We will be app evangelists!


One tweak possibly needed:  I've downloaded this morning on a Samsung 
Galaxy S7 Edge.   Works very well, except there is no exit.  I didn't find 
a way to close the app.   The only way to exit was to click the capacitive 
"recent" 
button, 
then close the app window.  Maybe this is by design, but thought I would 
let you know.



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Re: Quit an Android

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

> I have two requests that there be way to quit the app.

Few apps have that.  Why do those users want this?

> I may not have got that right… or maybe there are nuances about the
> way Android works.  Can you remind to Best Practice?

Mobile OSes present a very different flow than desktop. This post 
describes that well, along with some other fine points about explicit quit:


https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2033914/is-quitting-an-application-frowned-upon/2034238#2034238

FWIW at one time I believe I'd seen a discussion about this in the 
Android Design Guidelines, but the latest version has a messy taxonomy 
and if there's anything related to quitting I can't find it there.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Quit an Android

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Yay! The SivaSiva app works well on Android. 1 ½ years in the making!

I have two requests that there be way to quit the app.

But I recall you telling me that "User knows how to quit." And that  "quit" was 
not an important function in the app itself.

I may not have got that right… or maybe there are nuances about the way Android 
works.  Can you remind to Best Practice?

I was thinking of making the bottom  "Home" button return a dialog.

"You are home. You like to quit?"
   Cancel. | OK


Congratulations to you and the development team! Such an all-inclusive app! We 
will be app evangelists!

One tweak possibly needed:  I've downloaded this morning on a Samsung Galaxy S7 
Edge.   Works very well, except there is no exit.  I didn't find a way to close 
the app.   The only way to exit was to click the capacitive "recent" 
button,
 then close the app window.  Maybe this is by design, but thought I would let 
you know.


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Re: Max number of columns in a datagrid?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 4:38 PM Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Geoff Canyon wrote:
>>
>> > It's not relevant to the current discussion, but wy back when,
>> > I worked with a guy who had created some monster spreadsheets in
>> > Excel with something like 9,000 columns. It was working, but it was
>> > incredibly slow -- this was running on 68k Macs. Not expecting
>> > success, I suggested he give FileMaker a shot. He did, and
>> > amazingly, not only did it happily handle database definitions with
>> > 9,000 fields, it was not just faster than Excel, it was actually
>> > speedy. It had zero problems, and he built out the entirety of his
>> > solution that way.
>>
>> Did he create a layout in FileMaker with 9,000 fields?
>>
>> If he had I suspect it would expose the root of the issue as being
>> not so much about internal handling of the data, but about rendering
>> it all.
>>
>> One more reason to remember that spreadsheets are not databases.
>> Very different tools with very different feature focuses and
>> tradeoffs.
>
> I don't remember what-all he did with it, but FileMaker proved to be
> remarkably resilient pretty much no matter what he threw at it.

Interesting, but alas missed what I was trying to convey which is 
relevant for us LC folks:


Plenty of tools can put data in memory.  Easy to do; most will do it well.

The challenge is in also *rendering* all of it on screen.

As we consider our options for work in LiveCode, it can be helpful to 
think about the implications of rendering, both in technical terms and 
for the user experience.


Technically, rendering is computationally expensive.  Indeed, it's 
infinitely more expensive than not rendering. :)  So any time we have 
more data than can be rendered efficiently, we might ask ourselves if we 
really need to render all of it.


And this leads us to the user experience:  we render data where doing so 
has value to the user. Everything that doesn't benefit the user has no 
place on the user's screen; it becomes just noise, effectively an 
anti-feature.


What meaningful task is a user expected to perform with many thousands 
of columns rendered on screen?  How could it even be cognitively 
possible for a human to perform such tasks with any useful efficiency?


The answer would of course depend on the task in question.  But as a 
general rule, it may be safe to consider that if the user has to scroll 
horizontally more than the width of the room they're sitting in, it 
might be time to explore a simpler design that culls the noise for them 
and lets them see the smaller subset of data they're actually looking 
for more easily.



Furthering awareness of both of these aspects, technical and UX, we come 
back to the original issue cited in this thread, with LC sometimes not 
correctly rendering uncommonly large numbers of columns.


This limitation may have been eliminated, or close to eliminated, with 
the field object.  And now that fields have column-independent 
alignment, it's rare that there's ever a need to replace that one object 
with a thousand-object DataGrid for simple list views.


The DataGrid is bound to a limitation within LC for group contents: the 
formattedWidth and formattedHeight of a group cannot exceed 32765 px. 
Attempting to go beyond that flips the signed bit internally and objects 
will be rendered incorrectly.


I suppose it might be nice to see that extended, but in practice do we 
really need it?  How big should a group meaningfully be?


32,765 px is about 30 feet in size.  That's a lot to ask a user to 
scroll through, not to mention being a lot to ask LC to buffer so it can 
handle the scroll efficiently.


When we're faced with such monstrous scrolling requirements imposed on 
our users, a technical limitation in the engine may not be a bad thing 
at all.  It may turn out to be the prompting we need to re-think our 
designs to deliver a more useful and fluid user experience.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Browser Widget Problem in Android

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Did you get a map API key as the dictionary describes?

"Note: In order to use the map widget on Android, you must create a Google 
Maps V2 API key for your app, and set it in the standalone settings for the 
map widget via the cog icon in the Inclusions pane of the standalone 
settings stack."


The list doesn't accept attachments so I couldn't see your settings.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On November 24, 2018 5:47:06 PM Mike for GDC via use-livecode 
 wrote:



I have put a map browser widget in my app.  When I load the URL and try to
display it in my android, I just get a blank screen.  Attached are my
standalone settings.


The app works on my desktop but NOT on the Android.  The browser URL is set
correctly, it just does not display.  Any suggestions as to what might be
wrong?





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Re: Browser Widget Problem in Android

[Andrew Bell via use-livecode]

Mike-

Attachments don't make their way onto the list, so we can't see your settings.

You said a "map browser widget" but that doesn't exist in LiveCode:  
Map widget does, and Browser widget does, but no Map Browser widget. I  
think you're talking about the Browser widget based off the thread  
title and mention of URL.


The following inclusions will likely be required for your implementation:
Browser [globe icon, not puzzle piece] (to include the Browser widget)
Internet [dog-eared paper icon] (to include libURL libraries which  
allow the app to connect to the outside world)

SSL & Encryption [puzzle piece icon] (to handle HTTPS prefixes)

Does the addition of these, or changing the Inclusions setting under  
the General tab of Standalone Application Settings to "Search for  
required inclusions when saving the standalone application", make a  
difference for your app?


--Andrew Bell




Subject: Browser Widget Problem in Android
Message-ID: <005601d4844f$ba732c60$2f598520$@golddogcoffee.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

I have put a map browser widget in my app.  When I load the URL and try to
display it in my android, I just get a blank screen.  Attached are my
standalone settings.

The app works on my desktop but NOT on the Android.  The browser URL is set
correctly, it just does not display.  Any suggestions as to what might be
wrong?




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Re: LiveCode and Websockets

[Todd Fabacher via use-livecode]

Thanks Charles for the reply. Hope all is going well with you. Where can I
test the WebSocket external? I will need it for iOS, Android, Mac, and
Windows. Can you email me directly as we are time sensitive on this please.

We have the server up and running. Socket.io is the BEST in the market and
can deal with 10,000+ simultaneous connections with Node.js as the server.

Also, thanks, Tom. I looked at this and what it does is create a bridge
between LC and a web browser JavaScript that you add to the form. This is a
GREAT workaround if we can find our own controller. I see they need some
more Javascript code to manage all the different callback and error
trapping functionality, but it is a workable solution we also had
considered. It is NOT as flexible as an external, but we will improve it to
make it work to keep it as a backup.

Thanks guys,

Todd Fabacher
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Re: How to extract an entire element from an HTML file?

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

You could do this with revXML (see teh dictionary), but it is not a
single call.


On 11/25/2018 7:12 AM, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
> Folks,
> Can anyone please guide me towards an LiveCode feature(s) that might provide 
> the equivalent to the javascript jQuery library’s "jQuery(‘.class’).html();" 
> mechanism that allows one to select an entire element’s content (including 
> nested elements) from the page DOM?
>
> I have experimented with using jQuery in a browser widget for this purpose 
> but it introduces dependencies & integration complexities - and I’d prefer to 
> work without necessitating a desktop UI to contain for the browser widget, so 
> the code could potentially run on LC Server. 
>
> I can see how I might build a 'roll-your-own' approach, using LiveCode’s 
> powerful text & chunk features. This would seem to need the HTML file to be 
> pre-processed, to iterate through the tags of the text file to both find & 
> mark both each nesting level within elements and also ‘pair-up’ the 
> (anonymous) closing tags.
>
> Is there a smarter way - any HTML parsing utilities/libraries/lessons/stacks 
> I should study?
> Thanks
> Keith
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How to extract an entire element from an HTML file?

[Keith Clarke via use-livecode]

Folks,
Can anyone please guide me towards an LiveCode feature(s) that might provide 
the equivalent to the javascript jQuery library’s "jQuery(‘.class’).html();" 
mechanism that allows one to select an entire element’s content (including 
nested elements) from the page DOM?

I have experimented with using jQuery in a browser widget for this purpose but 
it introduces dependencies & integration complexities - and I’d prefer to work 
without necessitating a desktop UI to contain for the browser widget, so the 
code could potentially run on LC Server. 

I can see how I might build a 'roll-your-own' approach, using LiveCode’s 
powerful text & chunk features. This would seem to need the HTML file to be 
pre-processed, to iterate through the tags of the text file to both find & mark 
both each nesting level within elements and also ‘pair-up’ the (anonymous) 
closing tags.

Is there a smarter way - any HTML parsing utilities/libraries/lessons/stacks I 
should study?
Thanks
Keith
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