Always negative

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Not entirely.

I can put for what I regard as a positive suggestion. Whether it is doable
 and makes any business sense is a big question.

Stop all continuing development for a fixed period of time (6 months, say)
and attempt to sort out as many of the outstanding bugs as possible.

Have a fundraiser where individuals could sponsor specific bugs and
features they really wanted seeing to.

Even "Awful Richmond" would stump up some money for that.
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Re: Where LiveCode is Now

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 10/3/19 7:51 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

Hm. The search stops at 1.


Try narrowing it by date. For instance, an impressive 130 bugs resolved 
since the release of LC 9.0.5 on 16 May.




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Re: Where LiveCode is Now

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Hm. The search stops at 1.

"This list is too long for The LiveCode Quality Control Center's little 
mind; the Next/Prev/First/Last buttons won't appear on individual bugs."

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 3, 2019 9:37:28 PM "J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" 
 wrote:



You speak for me too. The only people who could say such things about LC
are those who don't know them. Anyone who does know them knows that
everything Richmond said is false. "Ill-informed" is putting it mildly.

LC are very open to constructive criticism, but rants just make the speaker
a troll. We are in fact a caring community and I for one do not welcome a
member who feels common courtesy is disposable.

For a new perspective, try a search for all the fixed and resolved issues.

https://quality.livecode.com/buglist.cgi?chfieldto=Now=resolution_format=advanced=Fixed
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 3, 2019 7:23:00 PM PystCat via use-livecode
 wrote:


Hi Heather,

I can only speak for myself, however I think others might be with me on
this,  I think you guys ROCK!  I understand the complexities involved in
creating incredibly beautiful software that makes it look very easy to make
other software.   You make it easy for me to create easy to use apps and
hide all the complex logic behind the scenes.  For making my life easier, I
thank you guys.

Please take all the time you guys need to keep pushing out a great system.
You guys are artists.  Like all great artists, it takes time to create a
masterpiece.

Slàinte.
Paul


On Oct 3, 2019, at 12:25 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode
 wrote:


Dear List Folks,


I'd like to reassure you, the team is anything but idle, and the fruits of
their labours are coming your way. I don't wish to steal Pano's thunder,
but you should look for an announcement on 9.0.5 tomorrow (all being well
with the build, which is currently undergoing final checks. Probably I've
just jinxed it by mentioning a release date, in direct contravention of my
rules.) 9.0.5 has had a fix shoehorned into it for the nasty debugger
crashing that was reported not long ago.


9.5.1 is well under way and shouldn't be long now, bringing the needed
updates for iOS among other things. I'm not going to even hint at a release
date of next week for this, its certain to cause a #fail.


9.6 is in progress with some nice new features and a first dp is not far
off. Real Soon Now :).


Yes, it has taken a little longer than usual between releases. A major
reason for this was the server move, which impacted our build bots and
delayed all test builds. Frustrating, but necessary work, and thankfully
that is all done now and everything is working smoothly again. One does not
appreciate the full complexity of these build bots until one attempts to
move them intact from one place to another.


The suggestion that all our efforts will remain with LCFM Native and never
bear fruit for LiveCode itself is based on a misconception, an idea that
somehow we are working on something other than LiveCode. We're not.
Everything we are building for LCFM Native is built with LiveCode. We
cannot do it without improving LiveCode. Those improvements will come back
to the community (many already have). Hermann... its not an infinite
effort. FileMaker is very much a finite set of code, with relatively slow
changes.


I hope you will like 9.0.5, 9.5.1 and 9.6, we're looking forward to
bringing them to you.


Best Regards,


Heather




Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com








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Re: Where LiveCode is Now

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

You speak for me too. The only people who could say such things about LC 
are those who don't know them. Anyone who does know them knows that 
everything Richmond said is false. "Ill-informed" is putting it mildly.


LC are very open to constructive criticism, but rants just make the speaker 
a troll. We are in fact a caring community and I for one do not welcome a 
member who feels common courtesy is disposable.


For a new perspective, try a search for all the fixed and resolved issues.

https://quality.livecode.com/buglist.cgi?chfieldto=Now=resolution_format=advanced=Fixed
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 3, 2019 7:23:00 PM PystCat via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Hi Heather,

I can only speak for myself, however I think others might be with me on 
this,  I think you guys ROCK!  I understand the complexities involved in 
creating incredibly beautiful software that makes it look very easy to make 
other software.   You make it easy for me to create easy to use apps and 
hide all the complex logic behind the scenes.  For making my life easier, I 
thank you guys.


Please take all the time you guys need to keep pushing out a great system.  
You guys are artists.  Like all great artists, it takes time to create a 
masterpiece.


Slàinte.
Paul

On Oct 3, 2019, at 12:25 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Dear List Folks,


I'd like to reassure you, the team is anything but idle, and the fruits of 
their labours are coming your way. I don't wish to steal Pano's thunder, 
but you should look for an announcement on 9.0.5 tomorrow (all being well 
with the build, which is currently undergoing final checks. Probably I've 
just jinxed it by mentioning a release date, in direct contravention of my 
rules.) 9.0.5 has had a fix shoehorned into it for the nasty debugger 
crashing that was reported not long ago.



9.5.1 is well under way and shouldn't be long now, bringing the needed 
updates for iOS among other things. I'm not going to even hint at a release 
date of next week for this, its certain to cause a #fail.



9.6 is in progress with some nice new features and a first dp is not far 
off. Real Soon Now :).



Yes, it has taken a little longer than usual between releases. A major 
reason for this was the server move, which impacted our build bots and 
delayed all test builds. Frustrating, but necessary work, and thankfully 
that is all done now and everything is working smoothly again. One does not 
appreciate the full complexity of these build bots until one attempts to 
move them intact from one place to another.



The suggestion that all our efforts will remain with LCFM Native and never 
bear fruit for LiveCode itself is based on a misconception, an idea that 
somehow we are working on something other than LiveCode. We're not. 
Everything we are building for LCFM Native is built with LiveCode. We 
cannot do it without improving LiveCode. Those improvements will come back 
to the community (many already have). Hermann... its not an infinite 
effort. FileMaker is very much a finite set of code, with relatively slow 
changes.



I hope you will like 9.0.5, 9.5.1 and 9.6, we're looking forward to 
bringing them to you.



Best Regards,


Heather




Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com








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Re: Where LiveCode is Now

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Hi Heather, thanks for the update.

Richmond, that was way over the top dude. I respect your right to say your
peace, and not much of it rings wholly true to me.

I pretty much just trust the team, last I talked to Kevin, he seemed sure
of the direction that they are taking..and for nowesp with 9.05 the
team has delivered a powerful and stable language and platform.

Thank you.




On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 8:22 PM PystCat via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Heather,
>
> I can only speak for myself, however I think others might be with me on
> this,  I think you guys ROCK!  I understand the complexities involved in
> creating incredibly beautiful software that makes it look very easy to make
> other software.   You make it easy for me to create easy to use apps and
> hide all the complex logic behind the scenes.  For making my life easier, I
> thank you guys.
>
> Please take all the time you guys need to keep pushing out a great
> system.  You guys are artists.  Like all great artists, it takes time to
> create a masterpiece.
>
> Slàinte.
> Paul
>
> > On Oct 3, 2019, at 12:25 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear List Folks,
> >
> > I'd like to reassure you, the team is anything but idle, and the fruits
> of their labours are coming your way. I don't wish to steal Pano's thunder,
> but you should look for an announcement on 9.0.5 tomorrow (all being well
> with the build, which is currently undergoing final checks. Probably I've
> just jinxed it by mentioning a release date, in direct contravention of my
> rules.) 9.0.5 has had a fix shoehorned into it for the nasty debugger
> crashing that was reported not long ago.
> >
> > 9.5.1 is well under way and shouldn't be long now, bringing the needed
> updates for iOS among other things. I'm not going to even hint at a release
> date of next week for this, its certain to cause a #fail.
> >
> > 9.6 is in progress with some nice new features and a first dp is not far
> off. Real Soon Now :).
> >
> > Yes, it has taken a little longer than usual between releases. A major
> reason for this was the server move, which impacted our build bots and
> delayed all test builds. Frustrating, but necessary work, and thankfully
> that is all done now and everything is working smoothly again. One does not
> appreciate the full complexity of these build bots until one attempts to
> move them intact from one place to another.
> >
> > The suggestion that all our efforts will remain with LCFM Native and
> never bear fruit for LiveCode itself is based on a misconception, an idea
> that somehow we are working on something other than LiveCode. We're not.
> Everything we are building for LCFM Native is built with LiveCode. We
> cannot do it without improving LiveCode. Those improvements will come back
> to the community (many already have). Hermann... its not an infinite
> effort. FileMaker is very much a finite set of code, with relatively slow
> changes.
> >
> > I hope you will like 9.0.5, 9.5.1 and 9.6, we're looking forward to
> bringing them to you.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Heather
> >
> >
> > Heather Laine
> > Customer Services Manager
> > LiveCode Ltd
> > www.livecode.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Office:226-706-9339
Mobile:226-706-9793
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Re: Where LiveCode is Now

[PystCat via use-livecode]

Hi Heather,

I can only speak for myself, however I think others might be with me on this,  
I think you guys ROCK!  I understand the complexities involved in creating 
incredibly beautiful software that makes it look very easy to make other 
software.   You make it easy for me to create easy to use apps and hide all the 
complex logic behind the scenes.  For making my life easier, I thank you guys.  
 

Please take all the time you guys need to keep pushing out a great system.  You 
guys are artists.  Like all great artists, it takes time to create a 
masterpiece. 

Slàinte.
Paul

> On Oct 3, 2019, at 12:25 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dear List Folks,
> 
> I'd like to reassure you, the team is anything but idle, and the fruits of 
> their labours are coming your way. I don't wish to steal Pano's thunder, but 
> you should look for an announcement on 9.0.5 tomorrow (all being well with 
> the build, which is currently undergoing final checks. Probably I've just 
> jinxed it by mentioning a release date, in direct contravention of my rules.) 
> 9.0.5 has had a fix shoehorned into it for the nasty debugger crashing that 
> was reported not long ago.
> 
> 9.5.1 is well under way and shouldn't be long now, bringing the needed 
> updates for iOS among other things. I'm not going to even hint at a release 
> date of next week for this, its certain to cause a #fail.
> 
> 9.6 is in progress with some nice new features and a first dp is not far off. 
> Real Soon Now :).
> 
> Yes, it has taken a little longer than usual between releases. A major reason 
> for this was the server move, which impacted our build bots and delayed all 
> test builds. Frustrating, but necessary work, and thankfully that is all done 
> now and everything is working smoothly again. One does not appreciate the 
> full complexity of these build bots until one attempts to move them intact 
> from one place to another.
> 
> The suggestion that all our efforts will remain with LCFM Native and never 
> bear fruit for LiveCode itself is based on a misconception, an idea that 
> somehow we are working on something other than LiveCode. We're not. 
> Everything we are building for LCFM Native is built with LiveCode. We cannot 
> do it without improving LiveCode. Those improvements will come back to the 
> community (many already have). Hermann... its not an infinite effort. 
> FileMaker is very much a finite set of code, with relatively slow changes. 
> 
> I hope you will like 9.0.5, 9.5.1 and 9.6, we're looking forward to bringing 
> them to you. 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Subject: Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now

[hh via use-livecode]

> Sean C. wrote;
> Now let me get back to fixing HTML5 for you!!

Wow ... Where is the piece I missed?

@Heather

Every (software) kingdom needs a court jester.
They have special rights and nobody should be insulted by them.

(And sometimes they say, just as young children, the truth.)

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Re: Recommended specs for Windows Development computer.

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I'm curious how a standalone performs. I have a standalone that saves stacks as 
properties are changes, and I am finding that while Windows direct host is 
slower than a MacOS for a lot of things, Paralles (using Shared Profile I 
admit) is several times slower, especially when saving the stack. I know it's 
the saving because I can see the tilde version of the stack appear, sit  there 
for way longer than shoud be acceptable, then when the tilde version goes away, 
I get control of the app back. No big deal as I am the only one who uses it 
this way, but it makes testing in Parallels almost unbearable. No joy using the 
Windows LC IDE either. 

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2019, at 14:17 , Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> For my job I need to frequently test things in Windows 10, and I have been 
> doing that using Parallels. It works really well, but sometimes I need to do 
> hardware tests, and so I had Bootcamp added as well.


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Re: Python to LiveCode

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 9/28/19 8:08 PM, kee nethery via use-livecode wrote:


Once the code is functional, I refactored it to make it more in line with the 
way the destination code is typically structured.

That’s what I did. Tedious but straightforward and successful.


LOL. "And there we go, we've created Minecraft."
https://boingboing.net/2019/10/03/every-programming-video-tutori.html

--
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 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Subject: Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

+1

> On Oct 3, 2019, at 12:35 , R.H. via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Some of the rants are leading nowhere.
> 
> I do not think that anybody writing as Richmond did has ever been involved
> in keeping up a company with such little assumed revenue to pay from for
> salaries. And I would love to see such guys running a company and make
> money. They will all fail. But to make money is what a company needs to do.
> Any constructive suggestion?
> 
> A free community version does not generate income. And rants about
> "community" is unfair and the words used are unpleasant to read for users
> on the list. They do not convey understanding but express personal anger.
> Who shall deal with that?
> 
> There are many parts and waiting bugs that can be addressed, but LiveCode
> is a huge endeavor addressed by limited resources. I ran over 100
> developers for business solutions with my own company and know what I am
> talking about.
> 
> Put a million dollars in, outsource bug fixing and testing, anticipate a
> business model that works. It is very difficult, even impossible, unless
> supported by giants nobody here wants to see on board.
> 
> If you can do better, come up with suggestions that do not put everbody
> down. There is also a responsibilty when writing to a public group. If you
> want politics, go to politics. There is enough hate I do not want to see it
> here.
> 
> I never felt and saw that the LiveCode dev team is not serious and not
> trying their very best. Nobody in software development can fully predict
> how things will work out. It is an inherent problem due to the complexity
> of the subject.
> 
> In my company, when I counted estimated development time, I multiplied it
> by the factor 4. But who will pay? Only big companies pay serious money for
> bug fixing and for each new release. So, I moved main funding to getting
> paid for hours spent then. Not so possible here.
> 
> I also paid to the LC fundraising campagne and was already satisfied with
> the support for Unicode. I never expected that everything would be possible
> to fully do for such relatively small amount of money. I never had such
> attitude. And nobody else could have done it. The team worked dedicated and
> hard. But they also have to live.
> 
> Hundreds of millions are lost by companies for that complexity reason in
> development. It is easy to break down and very hard to build up.
> 
> And in comparison to all those I know as well trying, LC does a fantastic
> job for do many years. Thanks to such wonderful team.
> 
> To be on the edge of everything, pay dozens of millions monthly! Not even
> Adobe or Microsoft can do it and fail often enough.
> 
> Be decent!
> 
> Roland
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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Heather

Humbly, I think that would be a bit over the top to ban Richmond. I found it 
quite entertaining and somewhat truthful. I’m in quite a pleasant and rational 
state of mind at the moment so can look objectively at this.

 Having stared down the naked barrel of the gun in the hands of LC last year I 
can totally get where Richmond is coming from, and I’m a long time paying 
subscriber to LC several times over now. It IS very much distressing at times 
to have a product that struggles so much and so consistently. HTML5 is only my 
latest example of this. I only manage to maintain this good state of mind 
because of a huge amount of meds (far more than a normal human should have to 
take) and a really forgiving and kind client (supporter). 

Please don’t ban Richmond as he is a valued member and goes through ups and 
downs like the rest of us. Sometimes, like me, they come out in a rant. Even if 
it was offensive (which is a subjective term), rude, ill-informed or whatever 
it is nonetheless a comment that should itself be valued and taken as genuine. 
Our views, even the bad ones, should be taken on the chin and counted as useful 
to LCs growth. By them you get to understand the Community you prize so highly 
(as well you should). If you don’t agree with what he said then that’s your 
prerogative (even as moderator) but it’s just a vented opinion and, as such, 
deserves the respect of any readers it gets. 

Make the product better and maybe there’ll be nothing left to rant about ;)

Now let me get back to fixing HTML5 for you!! (Which my client says I’m a fool 
for doing seeing as we are paying you for “the gosh-darned thing” (some words 
replaced for the front of heart). He has a point but I just can’t see you 
getting it done anytime soon. Even me sending the PR doesn’t guarantee that 
we’ll see it go live in the next year or so for commercial use. )

If you are really demanding an apology, I would appreciate an even bigger one 
from your team for winding me up in hospital last year (which I and even my 
therapists/councillors throw cleanly at LCs doorstep). Anything less would 
possibly/likely be verging on hypocrisy. 

All the very best to the very best of you all. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 3 Oct 2019, at 21:53, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Richmond - What you wrote is not just "unpleasant". It is rude, ill 
> informed, offensive and disrespectful to LiveCode, our company, our amazingly 
> dedicated employees, and the members of this great list. If I don't see an 
> apology in the morning you will make history as the only person I have ever 
> banned twice from this list.
> 
> Regards somewhat in abeyance right now.
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2019, at 20:54, Richmond via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Unpleasant rants . . .
>> 
>> Indeed: what I write was unpleasant.
>> 
>> There is, sometimes, a time and a place for unpleasantness, or, as some 
>> would have it, 'speaking directly.'
>> 
>> But, as many people have said softer, more tactful things for a long time to 
>> largely no avail, it might just
>> be that an unpleasant rant gets through.
>> 
>> If I offended anyone re running companies, that is just a side effect.
>> 
>> The simple fact is . . .
>> 
>> And I did preface my rant with it's "Mr Mouth" ' so anyone who wanted
>> could either ignore or disregard what I wrote.
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: HTML5

[hh via use-livecode]

Possibly the server of your webpage is very slow.

I need here at most 9-10 seconds to load a standalone
the first time from http://hyperhh.de/html5 .
You could load one of the latest (9.5.0 created) there
and compare.

Or you have conflict with SOP (same origin policy).
Is your standalone trying to load any extern files?

> Alain V. wrote:
> How come when I test my app in the developement test
> using my browser, everything is ok. and when I test
> the same app as standalone in my web site, nothing
> appear after 3 or 4 minutes?


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Re: HTML5

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Hi Alain

I’m sorry to hear you are having this issue. Do you have access to the server 
settings to enable gzip compression. When enabled the server will compress the 
js files substantially so that the browser does not have to download so much 
and décompresses it in the client (which is much quicker than the download 
itself). I use the developer tools in Chrome to throttle the network speed to 
8Mbps (1MByte/s) and it downloads in 10seconds and has the whole app displayed 
15seconds after full reload.

look in the guide in the dictionary under HTML5 deployment and Advanced: 
Speeding Up Engine Download. 

What type of web server are you on. CPanel can be fairly easy to set up 
manually. Some servers have it on by default. Some you have to ask the host to 
turn on for you. 

All the best

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Prod Ltd

> On 3 Oct 2019, at 16:01, Alain Vezina via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> How come when I test my app in the developement test using my browser, 
> everything is ok. and
> when I test the same app as standalone in my web site, nothing appear after 3 
> or 4 minutes?
> 
> My standalone-commercial-9.0.2.js is 28.5 Mo. I guess that is the reason...
> 
> Alain Vezina
> logilangue.com
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Re: Where LiveCode is Now

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

LC team,

I too so appreciate all the work the LC team has done over the years and 
continues to do. I’ve used probably a dozen different commercial coding systems 
over the decades and LC thru all it’s incarnations back to good old MetaCard 
with Scott was the one that provided the needed options, stability and power to 
get my multimedia exhibit and education projects done. It’s allowed me to be 
both designer and developer on projects that has created synergy that has made 
all the projects come out better. I know the limits of the system and when it’s 
worth trying to bleed some as it gets you something great and when it’s just 
not worth it and usually another design approach ends up working better. When 
I’ve had to work on projects that I couldn’t develop (complexity, timeline, 
feature needs) and be done in something like C it took way more resources and 
time and although I had really great programmers and I understood all the 
basics of what they were doing things could still get lost in translation and 
some things just turn into a quagmire.

There will always be bugs, feature not there yet, etc in any development system 
and we each have a very different set of needs and wants and the LC team can’t 
make us all perfectly happy at once, nor consistently. They are the ones on the 
front lines trying to make this a profitable business for them (they need to 
feed their families and they are not our serfs) and make decisions on what the 
priorities need to be. We can of course lobby for what we think our priorities 
are (and therefore LC’s), but that doesn’t make it so. 

Many of us have based a lot of our livelihood on LC which is always a risk, but 
many times completely necessary. Yes I could do my projects more safely in C 
but I would be very poor as the time needed would suck out any profit at all. 
It’s always a tradeoff and one that needs constant assessment and not trying to 
push a development system to the limits as then you are in very dangerous 
territory — payoffs can be huge but crashes huge as well. I know I have done it 
in the past and very luckily survived but probably trimmed a few months off my 
lifespan to pay for it. I’ve run into bugs in the past with LC and have always 
found a work around for them on the current project and later most have been 
taken care of in LC, I realize it takes time and priorities are not always mine.

Yes features are always promised but reality always creeps in and resets things 
all the time. But LC has gone on longer and further and covering more platforms 
than most any system out there. With every new platform or major feature it 
adds to the permutations of issues and bugs so things can go at an exponential 
curve of development anymore and decisions need to be made to best keep all the 
balls in the air for the whole system.

Richmond, you need to listen to your mother some and if you don’t have 
something constructive to say try and be quiet some, or just pontificate in 
cheese instead of being insulting. I’m sorry but your flaming of LC staff (and 
the community) constantly is just plain annoying. It does no one any good, it’s 
not the way to make good change. Come to the table with constructive, 
reasonable and positive comments and not nasty ones. Sorry, you don’t represent 
this “community”, at least none I am part of. You complain the LC treats us 
with distain, well I don’t feel like LC does and your comments just fill me 
with distain for your comments. If you talk like that to others then expect to 
be treated with distain. 

You probably think I’m an LC cult member, but you are wrong, I’m the last guy 
in the room cults would go for. I think too much for myself and try to treat 
others reasonably and keep expectations in line with reality, there are no 
magic bullets, most all things are based on some thought and work, not a guru 
spewing truth which you seem to think you do and we should follow suit. Sorry 
not joining your cult. 

LC all the way back to MetaCard has been a big part of making me a richer 
livelihood in both money and profession, won me awards, and positively educated 
many hundreds of thousands with my projects for like 35 years now. That is why 
I trust the LC team to have the best shot at keeping the boat afloat, not a 
mantra. For that I keep thanking the LC team all the way back to Scott and Bill 
Atkinson. Others like Hypercard, toolbook, supercard, Oracle media objects, 
Authorware, Etc have helped for periods and some specific projects due to 
particular needs (produce something Apple publishes it better be in HyperCard 
and make something for Mr Packard and it better run on an hp) but none have 
lasted and matured like LC has.

Jeff

> On Oct 3, 2019, at 2:15 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> Dear List Folks,
> 
> I'd like to reassure you, the team is anything but idle, and the fruits of 
> their labours are coming your way. I don't wish to steal Pano's thunder, but 
> you should look for 

Re: Recommended specs for Windows Development computer.

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

For my job I need to frequently test things in Windows 10, and I have been 
doing that using Parallels. It works really well, but sometimes I need to do 
hardware tests, and so I had Bootcamp added as well.

I was curious how well it performs, and so downloaded a benchmark test program. 
Users who have submitted their results range from a score of 200, up to around 
5,500. I tested my work MacBook Pro as a Mac, Windows 10 in Parallels, and 
Windows 10 in Bootcamp. Parallels managed 1100, macOS was 1900, and Bootcamp 
was 2300. My Mac pretending to be a PC worked better than my Mac as a Mac, and 
also better than about 75% of the real PCs in the list of results.


> On Oct 3, 2019, at 12:31 PM, JJS via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> yes you can use virtualbox or whatever but it will be slower, running an OS 
> in an OS, or:
> 
> You install bootcamp if you only need Win10: read this 
> https://support.apple.com/nl-nl/HT201468 it's in dutch but you can find the 
> English version yourself i think
> 
> then bootcamp will install all needed drivers so win10 will run smoothly on 
> your mac (note that your fan might blow some harder, windows is resource 
> hungry)
> 
> Or:
> 
> you go to https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind Now this is a bit more difficult 
> but very good doable, some IT people prefer this.
> 
> ReFind will create a new bootloader (something like GRUB but better with nice 
> icons)
> 
> With Refind you are also able to get Linux on it too, so you could create a 
> triple boot
> 
> 
> If you want something reversed --> make a mac from a windows/Linux PC, then 
> you need to go to https://tonymacx86.com and use Clover as bootloader. Note 
> this is harder, and you need to have a mac to download the OS on a stick.
> 
> Op 3-10-2019 om 20:13 schreef Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode:
>> I have used Parallels, and am now also using Virtual Box on my Mac. I use 
>> No-Machine to connect to hardware Windows test platforms, and plan to use it 
>> for other platforms (Linux, iOS, Android, Raspberry Pi). I use MiniWoL to 
>> wake one machine and plan add Wake-on-LAN to another Windows machine. Even 
>> when testing on Windows, I edit on Mac and use a network drive for projects. 
>> If need be, I sit at the Windows hardware.
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2019, at 11:48 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> I need to buy a new desktop PC to be used for LiveCode development 
>>> including using the new camera control and the player as I am working on a 
>>> cross platform application for Mac and Windows.
>>> 
>>> I have been developing the application  on on a Mac to this point but need 
>>> to have the PC for testing and debugging in a Windows environment.
>>> 
>>> Being a Mac guy I am not sure what I should look for in a PC— processor, 
>>> speed, RAM, etc. I bought a cheap desktop  PC, an Acer AXC-230 a year or so 
>>> ago for that purpose but that is painfully slow. So I don’t want to make 
>>> that mistake again.
>>> 
>>> With the comments on speed problems on Windows in the earlier thread I 
>>> don’t want to get something underpowered.
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions? What are people using?
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> Martin Koob
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

Richmond - What you wrote is not just "unpleasant". It is rude, ill informed, 
offensive and disrespectful to LiveCode, our company, our amazingly dedicated 
employees, and the members of this great list. If I don't see an apology in the 
morning you will make history as the only person I have ever banned twice from 
this list.

Regards somewhat in abeyance right now.

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 3 Oct 2019, at 20:54, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Unpleasant rants . . .
> 
> Indeed: what I write was unpleasant.
> 
> There is, sometimes, a time and a place for unpleasantness, or, as some would 
> have it, 'speaking directly.'
> 
> But, as many people have said softer, more tactful things for a long time to 
> largely no avail, it might just
> be that an unpleasant rant gets through.
> 
> If I offended anyone re running companies, that is just a side effect.
> 
> The simple fact is . . .
> 
> And I did preface my rant with it's "Mr Mouth" ' so anyone who wanted
> could either ignore or disregard what I wrote.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 10/3/19 12:54 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:


And I did preface my rant with it's "Mr Mouth" ' so anyone who wanted
could either ignore or disregard what I wrote.


Ignore a Richmond Rant? You gotta be kidding. I live for these things.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Iphonelagi via use-livecode]

Hi Trevor

I understand totally but when something was promised after crowdfunding to be 
ready in 3 months and three and a half years later NOTHING that is unforgivable 
... If one person at Livecode spent 1 hour a day only without weekends over 3 
and a half years that’s roughly 21 weeks at 5 days a week 8 hour days ... and 
that’s a lazy programmers week.

I want them to succeed I don’t want them to take mark and monty and Ali off 
this project but getting even an a couple of hours a week would have done 
something 

And answering Bob the best company I ever dealt with for support was Foxpro 
before microdot bought them ... had a showstopper big while I was onsite in 
Manchester sent a fax to America got a patch for the bug 1 hour later which I 
downloaded from their bbs at 2400 baud ... now that’s support.
Mark waddingham  Monty and Panos on this uselist  are close but they aren’t in 
charge of lighting the Cigar

Lagi

Sent from my iPhone

> On 3 Oct 2019, at 16:42, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 4:56 AM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I'm reading between the
>> lines but Trevor probably knows how well it's doing - but the rest of use
>> are being treated like mushrooms.
>> 
> 
> Hi Lagi,
> 
> I do not have any additional information about how well the FM project or
> the company is doing. The last update I received was what others heard at
> the LiveCode Conference. My thoughts are based on what I think I would do
> if I was in their place.
> 
> While I make my business decisions based on what LiveCode can do now (a
> wise senior engineer once counseled me not to base my business on what
> other companies *might* do), I am very interested in the company's health
> as the LiveCode platform affects my ability to deliver great software using
> LiveCode in the future. LiveCode is a very ambitious project. The number of
> platforms they are trying to support requires an enormous amount of
> planning, programming, and other resources to create, maintain, and
> improve. I am heavily invested in LiveCode as a platform so I want very
> much for the company to have healthy revenue streams.
> 
> Based on what I've heard, the LiveCode FM product addresses a very
> important problem that companies are willing to pay recurring licensing
> fees to overcome. It is a wonderful thing when a company can find a large
> pool of customers that have a problem they are willing pay to them you to
> solve. So while I'm less enthusiastic about development on LiveCode slowing
> down right now, I support the company pursuing this opportunity.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com
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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Unpleasant rants . . .

Indeed: what I write was unpleasant.

There is, sometimes, a time and a place for unpleasantness, or, as some 
would have it, 'speaking directly.'


But, as many people have said softer, more tactful things for a long 
time to largely no avail, it might just

be that an unpleasant rant gets through.

If I offended anyone re running companies, that is just a side effect.

The simple fact is . . .

And I did preface my rant with it's "Mr Mouth" ' so anyone who wanted
could either ignore or disregard what I wrote.



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Subject: Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now

[R.H. via use-livecode]

Some of the rants are leading nowhere.

I do not think that anybody writing as Richmond did has ever been involved
in keeping up a company with such little assumed revenue to pay from for
salaries. And I would love to see such guys running a company and make
money. They will all fail. But to make money is what a company needs to do.
Any constructive suggestion?

A free community version does not generate income. And rants about
"community" is unfair and the words used are unpleasant to read for users
on the list. They do not convey understanding but express personal anger.
Who shall deal with that?

There are many parts and waiting bugs that can be addressed, but LiveCode
is a huge endeavor addressed by limited resources. I ran over 100
developers for business solutions with my own company and know what I am
talking about.

Put a million dollars in, outsource bug fixing and testing, anticipate a
business model that works. It is very difficult, even impossible, unless
supported by giants nobody here wants to see on board.

If you can do better, come up with suggestions that do not put everbody
down. There is also a responsibilty when writing to a public group. If you
want politics, go to politics. There is enough hate I do not want to see it
here.

I never felt and saw that the LiveCode dev team is not serious and not
trying their very best. Nobody in software development can fully predict
how things will work out. It is an inherent problem due to the complexity
of the subject.

In my company, when I counted estimated development time, I multiplied it
by the factor 4. But who will pay? Only big companies pay serious money for
bug fixing and for each new release. So, I moved main funding to getting
paid for hours spent then. Not so possible here.

I also paid to the LC fundraising campagne and was already satisfied with
the support for Unicode. I never expected that everything would be possible
to fully do for such relatively small amount of money. I never had such
attitude. And nobody else could have done it. The team worked dedicated and
hard. But they also have to live.

Hundreds of millions are lost by companies for that complexity reason in
development. It is easy to break down and very hard to build up.

And in comparison to all those I know as well trying, LC does a fantastic
job for do many years. Thanks to such wonderful team.

To be on the edge of everything, pay dozens of millions monthly! Not even
Adobe or Microsoft can do it and fail often enough.

Be decent!

Roland
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Re: Recommended specs for Windows Development computer.

[JJS via use-livecode]

yes you can use virtualbox or whatever but it will be slower, running an 
OS in an OS, or:


You install bootcamp if you only need Win10: read this 
https://support.apple.com/nl-nl/HT201468 it's in dutch but you can find 
the English version yourself i think


then bootcamp will install all needed drivers so win10 will run smoothly 
on your mac (note that your fan might blow some harder, windows is 
resource hungry)


Or:

you go to https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind Now this is a bit more 
difficult but very good doable, some IT people prefer this.


ReFind will create a new bootloader (something like GRUB but better with 
nice icons)


With Refind you are also able to get Linux on it too, so you could 
create a triple boot



If you want something reversed --> make a mac from a windows/Linux PC, 
then you need to go to https://tonymacx86.com and use Clover as 
bootloader. Note this is harder, and you need to have a mac to download 
the OS on a stick.


Op 3-10-2019 om 20:13 schreef Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode:

I have used Parallels, and am now also using Virtual Box on my Mac. I use 
No-Machine to connect to hardware Windows test platforms, and plan to use it 
for other platforms (Linux, iOS, Android, Raspberry Pi). I use MiniWoL to wake 
one machine and plan add Wake-on-LAN to another Windows machine. Even when 
testing on Windows, I edit on Mac and use a network drive for projects. If need 
be, I sit at the Windows hardware.


On Oct 3, 2019, at 11:48 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Hi

I need to buy a new desktop PC to be used for LiveCode development including 
using the new camera control and the player as I am working on a cross platform 
application for Mac and Windows.

I have been developing the application  on on a Mac to this point but need to 
have the PC for testing and debugging in a Windows environment.

Being a Mac guy I am not sure what I should look for in a PC— processor, speed, 
RAM, etc. I bought a cheap desktop  PC, an Acer AXC-230 a year or so ago for 
that purpose but that is painfully slow. So I don’t want to make that mistake 
again.

With the comments on speed problems on Windows in the earlier thread I don’t 
want to get something underpowered.

Any suggestions? What are people using?

Thanks in advance.

Martin Koob

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Recommended specs for Windows Development computer.

[Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode]

I have used Parallels, and am now also using Virtual Box on my Mac. I use 
No-Machine to connect to hardware Windows test platforms, and plan to use it 
for other platforms (Linux, iOS, Android, Raspberry Pi). I use MiniWoL to wake 
one machine and plan add Wake-on-LAN to another Windows machine. Even when 
testing on Windows, I edit on Mac and use a network drive for projects. If need 
be, I sit at the Windows hardware. 

> On Oct 3, 2019, at 11:48 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I need to buy a new desktop PC to be used for LiveCode development including 
> using the new camera control and the player as I am working on a cross 
> platform application for Mac and Windows. 
> 
> I have been developing the application  on on a Mac to this point but need to 
> have the PC for testing and debugging in a Windows environment. 
> 
> Being a Mac guy I am not sure what I should look for in a PC— processor, 
> speed, RAM, etc. I bought a cheap desktop  PC, an Acer AXC-230 a year or so 
> ago for that purpose but that is painfully slow. So I don’t want to make that 
> mistake again. 
> 
> With the comments on speed problems on Windows in the earlier thread I don’t 
> want to get something underpowered. 
> 
> Any suggestions? What are people using?
> 
> Thanks in advance. 
> 
> Martin Koob
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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DataGrid and scroll down refresh

[Dan Friedman via use-livecode]

Greeting!

For mobile, it has become VERY common to  scroll down past the top of a list to 
refresh the data (usually a loading wheel appears).  Is there a method to 
accomplish this with the DataGrid?

-Dan

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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode]

Brian, thanks for your quick info.
Good to hear they do accept contributions and merge them in the commercial 
versions.


On 03/10/2019, 19:55, "use-livecode on behalf of Brian Milby via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

Part of the agreement that you make when you submit a PR is that you assign 
rights for the fixes to LC so the code can be integrated into the commercial 
versions.  You can’t mix the code on GitHub with the commercial versions 
yourself though.

I have submitted stuff that is now in released versions, so they do accept 
contributions (and not everything was strictly bug fixes).

Thanks,
Brian
On Oct 3, 2019, 1:48 PM -0400, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Does anyone know if you fork the Community Edition of LiveCode, solve 
bugs (e.g. IDE-related, plugins etc.), compile the LC version again and 
integrate it to the Indy version?
> Or is this just not possible because of the closed source of the engine?
>
> On 03/10/2019, 18:16, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wieder via 
use-livecode"  wrote:
>
> On 10/3/19 8:47 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
>
> > > All true. But will the idle state of LC ever change again?
> > >
> >
> > I believe that it will if LiveCode FM gets traction. I may be wrong.
>
> Additionally, the patch that Mark Waddingham just implemented related to
> the frozen pool (I am the walrus?) affecting debugging is encouraging.
>
> --
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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>
>
>
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Re: Recommended specs for Windows Development computer.

[Dalton Calford via use-livecode]

Try Vmware Fusion - you can run windows without needing a dual boot - you
just need a windows 10 licence.

On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 14:04, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I would advise this hardware:
>
> - LGA 1152 motherboard (with PCIe ports)
> - Intel i5 processor
> - 8GB RAM or more
> - 256GB SSD or better 256GB M.2 NVMe if supported by your Mac
>
> OR use VM's (which I am using on a 32GB Mac machine):
>
> - Expand your current RAM in your Mac to at least 16GB or more if possible
> - Replace all mechanical HDD's with SATA SSD or even better M.2 NVMe SSD
> (minimum 512GB)
> - Use Parallels Desktop
>
> Just my 2 cents...
>
> On 03/10/2019, 19:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Martin Koob via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I need to buy a new desktop PC to be used for LiveCode development
> including using the new camera control and the player as I am working on a
> cross platform application for Mac and Windows.
>
> I have been developing the application  on on a Mac to this point but
> need to have the PC for testing and debugging in a Windows environment.
>
> Being a Mac guy I am not sure what I should look for in a PC—
> processor, speed, RAM, etc. I bought a cheap desktop  PC, an Acer AXC-230 a
> year or so ago for that purpose but that is painfully slow. So I don’t want
> to make that mistake again.
>
> With the comments on speed problems on Windows in the earlier thread I
> don’t want to get something underpowered.
>
> Any suggestions? What are people using?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Martin Koob
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: Recommended specs for Windows Development computer.

[Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode]

Hi,

I would advise this hardware:

- LGA 1152 motherboard (with PCIe ports)
- Intel i5 processor
- 8GB RAM or more
- 256GB SSD or better 256GB M.2 NVMe if supported by your Mac

OR use VM's (which I am using on a 32GB Mac machine):

- Expand your current RAM in your Mac to at least 16GB or more if possible
- Replace all mechanical HDD's with SATA SSD or even better M.2 NVMe SSD 
(minimum 512GB)
- Use Parallels Desktop

Just my 2 cents...

On 03/10/2019, 19:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Martin Koob via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

Hi

I need to buy a new desktop PC to be used for LiveCode development 
including using the new camera control and the player as I am working on a 
cross platform application for Mac and Windows. 

I have been developing the application  on on a Mac to this point but need 
to have the PC for testing and debugging in a Windows environment. 

Being a Mac guy I am not sure what I should look for in a PC— processor, 
speed, RAM, etc. I bought a cheap desktop  PC, an Acer AXC-230 a year or so ago 
for that purpose but that is painfully slow. So I don’t want to make that 
mistake again. 

With the comments on speed problems on Windows in the earlier thread I 
don’t want to get something underpowered. 

Any suggestions? What are people using?

Thanks in advance. 

Martin Koob

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Recommended specs for Windows Development computer.

[JB via use-livecode]

Do you have a link for info on how to do that?
I will be wanting to test on Windows too and
was thinking I needed to use a emulator like
Parallels.

JB


> On Oct 3, 2019, at 10:54 AM, JJS via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Why don't you create a dual boot of your mac?
> 
> Apple itself supports it and delivers the drivers to do so.
> 
> You only need a win10 license
> 
> 
> Op 3-10-2019 om 19:48 schreef Martin Koob via use-livecode:
>> Hi
>> 
>> I need to buy a new desktop PC to be used for LiveCode development including 
>> using the new camera control and the player as I am working on a cross 
>> platform application for Mac and Windows.
>> 
>> I have been developing the application  on on a Mac to this point but need 
>> to have the PC for testing and debugging in a Windows environment.
>> 
>> Being a Mac guy I am not sure what I should look for in a PC— processor, 
>> speed, RAM, etc. I bought a cheap desktop  PC, an Acer AXC-230 a year or so 
>> ago for that purpose but that is painfully slow. So I don’t want to make 
>> that mistake again.
>> 
>> With the comments on speed problems on Windows in the earlier thread I don’t 
>> want to get something underpowered.
>> 
>> Any suggestions? What are people using?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance.
>> 
>> Martin Koob
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: Recommended specs for Windows Development computer.

[JJS via use-livecode]

Why don't you create a dual boot of your mac?

Apple itself supports it and delivers the drivers to do so.

You only need a win10 license


Op 3-10-2019 om 19:48 schreef Martin Koob via use-livecode:

Hi

I need to buy a new desktop PC to be used for LiveCode development including 
using the new camera control and the player as I am working on a cross platform 
application for Mac and Windows.

I have been developing the application  on on a Mac to this point but need to 
have the PC for testing and debugging in a Windows environment.

Being a Mac guy I am not sure what I should look for in a PC— processor, speed, 
RAM, etc. I bought a cheap desktop  PC, an Acer AXC-230 a year or so ago for 
that purpose but that is painfully slow. So I don’t want to make that mistake 
again.

With the comments on speed problems on Windows in the earlier thread I don’t 
want to get something underpowered.

Any suggestions? What are people using?

Thanks in advance.

Martin Koob

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

Part of the agreement that you make when you submit a PR is that you assign 
rights for the fixes to LC so the code can be integrated into the commercial 
versions.  You can’t mix the code on GitHub with the commercial versions 
yourself though.

I have submitted stuff that is now in released versions, so they do accept 
contributions (and not everything was strictly bug fixes).

Thanks,
Brian
On Oct 3, 2019, 1:48 PM -0400, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Does anyone know if you fork the Community Edition of LiveCode, solve bugs 
> (e.g. IDE-related, plugins etc.), compile the LC version again and integrate 
> it to the Indy version?
> Or is this just not possible because of the closed source of the engine?
>
> On 03/10/2019, 18:16, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wieder via 
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/3/19 8:47 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
>
> > > All true. But will the idle state of LC ever change again?
> > >
> >
> > I believe that it will if LiveCode FM gets traction. I may be wrong.
>
> Additionally, the patch that Mark Waddingham just implemented related to
> the frozen pool (I am the walrus?) affecting debugging is encouraging.
>
> --
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Aha: it's "Mr Mouth", late to the party, but well furnished with virtual 
whisky and raxin up tae an unco raj state.


And, much against my inner inclinations I will put the following in 
English (although I have always viewed
English as a cold, sterile language, while Scots speaks directly from 
the heart);


All the "bull" (oops, that's American) about "Community" is bull, no 
more, no less.


The "good" folk at LiveCode Central cherry pick from the "community's" 
gripes/comments/feedback/ideas
to serve their ends, and exclude things that, while in many cases being 
extremely pertinent, do not serve

or further whatever goals they have set their eyes on.

As an ex-cult member (Yes, really) I know all about top-down systems and 
what the results are: never
either equable or effective. And, as an ex-cult member I know that the 
high-ups got there either by chance,
by extremely dirty politics, or because the guru "fancied the shape of 
their knees."


I spent an awful lot of time and energy working to release other people 
from a variety of cults; so my

understanding of the mechanisms of these organisations is fairly good.
-

Now, as someone who pushed for years for LiveCode to release a truly 
free version of their fantastic language/
ide/programming package I was 100% ecstatic when the open source version 
was released.


I have NEVER bought into the "Community" crap: because that is what it 
is: crap!


There is a community insofar as many people who use LiveCode for various 
reasons help each other

with things they get stuck with: and that, as far as it goes, is super.

A "Community" as endlessly burbled on by LiveCode Central is a typical 
cultic system: "you come
up with bright ideas and we take what we like and what serve our 
interests and overlook what is

inconvenient."

Just recently I read about the British/English parliament (which has 
been called the "Mother" of parliaments)
described as the "Madam" of parliaments: presumably pimping its members 
and its voting public like nobody's business.


LiveCode, if it wants to keep its "Community" happy has to start 
treating its community of established
programmers/coders with respect and stop riding roughshod over its 
complaints and bug reports that have sat on record for donkey's ages 
without being addressed: or just "cut the crap" and stop mentioning the 
word "community" and all the rather fake attempts at cuddly-feely 
kissy-wissy stuff that isn't anything it is

stated to be.

Anybody with any sense of "smell" know that LiveCode have had to move 
from their "toney" offices up "there"
to somewhere scaffy down "there", and the reason is they have buggered 
up their public relations.


How come what is a wonderful language/ide/programming package that is 
ideal for High school kids is ONLY
used in a few schools in Scotland and a few wierdos (self included) 
elsewhere?


I contributed my "Widow's mite" to a LiveCode fundraiser and have seen 
that some of those promises have been entirely empty: so, why should I 
and many more, who have invested a lot of time and effort getting to 
know this language stump up anything further when we are treated with 
patrician disdain, total disregard for our suggestions, advice and so forth?


And who, forbye, had the idea that Filemaker was so damned important 
that everything else had to be put on standby?


After all, a trip to the Filemaker webpage tells us that (Wow! They've 
revived the name 'Claris'), this is a package
used on Macintosh computers only: well "f*ck me with a shovel", who uses 
Macintosh? about 7% of computer users in  what racists like to call "the 
civilised world."


I develop a program called "Devawriter Pro" with LiveCode for 
Sanskritists to digitise Sanskrit: I make about $200
a year on it (something to do with being an ex-cult member): I have 
absolutely NO illusions about it:
I'd make more selling my body round the docks in Aberdeen (might even 
have more fun). But, unlike
LiveCode, I don't rely on Devawriter to stock my fridge, and I don't 
have delusions of grandeur about it
being " Hari Nama, Hari Nama, Hari Nama, Kalyau, Kalyau, Kalyau nastyeva 
gatir anyataha" and kicking

the pants out of all the other programming suites out there.

A while back, Kevin Miller developed an innovative front-end to 
Metacard, and somewhere between that point

and now someone or other seems to have badly lost the plot.

On 3.10.19 16:31, Dan Brown via use-livecode wrote:

I'm sure that LC HQ would have loved to solely preside over the language
and a flourishing opensource and enterprise community that kept the lights
on . Unfortunately that just hasn't happened since the kickstarter
campaign. Without the LCFM  lifeline I think they may have ceased to exist
in the medium term.



On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:08 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


poor comms don't make this better.  one good thing about LCG was that we
had bi-monthly updates.  this year, no 

Recommended specs for Windows Development computer.

[Martin Koob via use-livecode]

Hi

I need to buy a new desktop PC to be used for LiveCode development including 
using the new camera control and the player as I am working on a cross platform 
application for Mac and Windows. 

I have been developing the application  on on a Mac to this point but need to 
have the PC for testing and debugging in a Windows environment. 

Being a Mac guy I am not sure what I should look for in a PC— processor, speed, 
RAM, etc. I bought a cheap desktop  PC, an Acer AXC-230 a year or so ago for 
that purpose but that is painfully slow. So I don’t want to make that mistake 
again. 

With the comments on speed problems on Windows in the earlier thread I don’t 
want to get something underpowered. 

Any suggestions? What are people using?

Thanks in advance. 

Martin Koob

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode]

Does anyone know if you fork the Community Edition of LiveCode, solve bugs 
(e.g. IDE-related, plugins etc.), compile  the LC version again and integrate 
it to the Indy version?
Or is this just not possible because of the closed source of the engine?

On 03/10/2019, 18:16, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Wieder via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

On 10/3/19 8:47 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:

>> All true. But will the idle state of LC ever change again?
>>
> 
> I believe that it will if LiveCode FM gets traction. I may be wrong.

Additionally, the patch that Mark Waddingham just implemented related to 
the frozen pool (I am the walrus?) affecting debugging is encouraging.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Where LiveCode is Now

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Yes, most certainly agreed

> On Oct 3, 2019, at 5:31 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> For my part I love what you guys do. As I've mentioned before, Livecode has 
> upped my value to my employer, as they see that I am capable of more than 
> what they hider me to do. It may even have been responsible for a couple 
> raises in the recent past. 
> 
> Also as I have mentioned before, I have never seen a company so responsive to 
> it's users, and also so transparent. We have people *actually* involved in 
> the development process come on list and tell us what they are doing and 
> planning. Seriously, you guys do not get enough credit for how hard you work. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2019, at 09:25 , Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Dear List Folks,
>> 
>> I'd like to reassure you, the team is anything but idle, and the fruits of 
>> their labours are coming your way. I don't wish to steal Pano's thunder, but 
>> you should look for an announcement on 9.0.5 tomorrow (all being well with 
>> the build, which is currently undergoing final checks. Probably I've just 
>> jinxed it by mentioning a release date, in direct contravention of my 
>> rules.) 9.0.5 has had a fix shoehorned into it for the nasty debugger 
>> crashing that was reported not long ago.
>> 
>> 9.5.1 is well under way and shouldn't be long now, bringing the needed 
>> updates for iOS among other things. I'm not going to even hint at a release 
>> date of next week for this, its certain to cause a #fail.
>> 
>> 9.6 is in progress with some nice new features and a first dp is not far 
>> off. Real Soon Now :).
>> 
>> Yes, it has taken a little longer than usual between releases. A major 
>> reason for this was the server move, which impacted our build bots and 
>> delayed all test builds. Frustrating, but necessary work, and thankfully 
>> that is all done now and everything is working smoothly again. One does not 
>> appreciate the full complexity of these build bots until one attempts to 
>> move them intact from one place to another.
>> 
>> The suggestion that all our efforts will remain with LCFM Native and never 
>> bear fruit for LiveCode itself is based on a misconception, an idea that 
>> somehow we are working on something other than LiveCode. We're not. 
>> Everything we are building for LCFM Native is built with LiveCode. We cannot 
>> do it without improving LiveCode. Those improvements will come back to the 
>> community (many already have). Hermann... its not an infinite effort. 
>> FileMaker is very much a finite set of code, with relatively slow changes. 
>> 
>> I hope you will like 9.0.5, 9.5.1 and 9.6, we're looking forward to bringing 
>> them to you. 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
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Re: Where LiveCode is Now

[Phil Davis via use-livecode]

Amen Bob!
Phil Davis


On 10/3/19 9:31 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

For my part I love what you guys do. As I've mentioned before, Livecode has 
upped my value to my employer, as they see that I am capable of more than what 
they hider me to do. It may even have been responsible for a couple raises in 
the recent past.

Also as I have mentioned before, I have never seen a company so responsive to 
it's users, and also so transparent. We have people *actually* involved in the 
development process come on list and tell us what they are doing and planning. 
Seriously, you guys do not get enough credit for how hard you work.

Bob S



On Oct 3, 2019, at 09:25 , Heather Laine via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Dear List Folks,

I'd like to reassure you, the team is anything but idle, and the fruits of 
their labours are coming your way. I don't wish to steal Pano's thunder, but 
you should look for an announcement on 9.0.5 tomorrow (all being well with the 
build, which is currently undergoing final checks. Probably I've just jinxed it 
by mentioning a release date, in direct contravention of my rules.) 9.0.5 has 
had a fix shoehorned into it for the nasty debugger crashing that was reported 
not long ago.

9.5.1 is well under way and shouldn't be long now, bringing the needed updates 
for iOS among other things. I'm not going to even hint at a release date of 
next week for this, its certain to cause a #fail.

9.6 is in progress with some nice new features and a first dp is not far off. 
Real Soon Now :).

Yes, it has taken a little longer than usual between releases. A major reason 
for this was the server move, which impacted our build bots and delayed all 
test builds. Frustrating, but necessary work, and thankfully that is all done 
now and everything is working smoothly again. One does not appreciate the full 
complexity of these build bots until one attempts to move them intact from one 
place to another.

The suggestion that all our efforts will remain with LCFM Native and never bear 
fruit for LiveCode itself is based on a misconception, an idea that somehow we 
are working on something other than LiveCode. We're not. Everything we are 
building for LCFM Native is built with LiveCode. We cannot do it without 
improving LiveCode. Those improvements will come back to the community (many 
already have). Hermann... its not an infinite effort. FileMaker is very much a 
finite set of code, with relatively slow changes.

I hope you will like 9.0.5, 9.5.1 and 9.6, we're looking forward to bringing 
them to you.

Best Regards,

Heather


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com


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--
Phil Davis
503-307-4363


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Re: Where LiveCode is Now

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

For my part I love what you guys do. As I've mentioned before, Livecode has 
upped my value to my employer, as they see that I am capable of more than what 
they hider me to do. It may even have been responsible for a couple raises in 
the recent past. 

Also as I have mentioned before, I have never seen a company so responsive to 
it's users, and also so transparent. We have people *actually* involved in the 
development process come on list and tell us what they are doing and planning. 
Seriously, you guys do not get enough credit for how hard you work. 

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2019, at 09:25 , Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dear List Folks,
> 
> I'd like to reassure you, the team is anything but idle, and the fruits of 
> their labours are coming your way. I don't wish to steal Pano's thunder, but 
> you should look for an announcement on 9.0.5 tomorrow (all being well with 
> the build, which is currently undergoing final checks. Probably I've just 
> jinxed it by mentioning a release date, in direct contravention of my rules.) 
> 9.0.5 has had a fix shoehorned into it for the nasty debugger crashing that 
> was reported not long ago.
> 
> 9.5.1 is well under way and shouldn't be long now, bringing the needed 
> updates for iOS among other things. I'm not going to even hint at a release 
> date of next week for this, its certain to cause a #fail.
> 
> 9.6 is in progress with some nice new features and a first dp is not far off. 
> Real Soon Now :).
> 
> Yes, it has taken a little longer than usual between releases. A major reason 
> for this was the server move, which impacted our build bots and delayed all 
> test builds. Frustrating, but necessary work, and thankfully that is all done 
> now and everything is working smoothly again. One does not appreciate the 
> full complexity of these build bots until one attempts to move them intact 
> from one place to another.
> 
> The suggestion that all our efforts will remain with LCFM Native and never 
> bear fruit for LiveCode itself is based on a misconception, an idea that 
> somehow we are working on something other than LiveCode. We're not. 
> Everything we are building for LCFM Native is built with LiveCode. We cannot 
> do it without improving LiveCode. Those improvements will come back to the 
> community (many already have). Hermann... its not an infinite effort. 
> FileMaker is very much a finite set of code, with relatively slow changes. 
> 
> I hope you will like 9.0.5, 9.5.1 and 9.6, we're looking forward to bringing 
> them to you. 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com


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Where LiveCode is Now

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

Dear List Folks,

I'd like to reassure you, the team is anything but idle, and the fruits of 
their labours are coming your way. I don't wish to steal Pano's thunder, but 
you should look for an announcement on 9.0.5 tomorrow (all being well with the 
build, which is currently undergoing final checks. Probably I've just jinxed it 
by mentioning a release date, in direct contravention of my rules.) 9.0.5 has 
had a fix shoehorned into it for the nasty debugger crashing that was reported 
not long ago.

9.5.1 is well under way and shouldn't be long now, bringing the needed updates 
for iOS among other things. I'm not going to even hint at a release date of 
next week for this, its certain to cause a #fail.

9.6 is in progress with some nice new features and a first dp is not far off. 
Real Soon Now :).

Yes, it has taken a little longer than usual between releases. A major reason 
for this was the server move, which impacted our build bots and delayed all 
test builds. Frustrating, but necessary work, and thankfully that is all done 
now and everything is working smoothly again. One does not appreciate the full 
complexity of these build bots until one attempts to move them intact from one 
place to another.

The suggestion that all our efforts will remain with LCFM Native and never bear 
fruit for LiveCode itself is based on a misconception, an idea that somehow we 
are working on something other than LiveCode. We're not. Everything we are 
building for LCFM Native is built with LiveCode. We cannot do it without 
improving LiveCode. Those improvements will come back to the community (many 
already have). Hermann... its not an infinite effort. FileMaker is very much a 
finite set of code, with relatively slow changes. 

I hope you will like 9.0.5, 9.5.1 and 9.6, we're looking forward to bringing 
them to you. 

Best Regards,

Heather


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com




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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 10/3/19 8:47 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:


All true. But will the idle state of LC ever change again?



I believe that it will if LiveCode FM gets traction. I may be wrong.


Additionally, the patch that Mark Waddingham just implemented related to 
the frozen pool (I am the walrus?) affecting debugging is encouraging.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I agree with Trevor here, but I'd like to interject a bit. I have 2 reasons I 
declined to use the Filemaker model many years ago. One was that I could not 
code procedurally. Coding was done using graphic objects whose properties you 
had to open and edit, then save. Easy I suppose for a non-coder, but VERY time 
consuming, especially when you needed to find out where something was going 
wrong! Perhaps that has been addressed in Livecode for Filemaker. 

The other thing was it's licensing model. To have LOCAL USERS run a utility app 
I created, they each needed to purchase a license for Filemaker Client, or else 
I had to run Filemaker Server, again licensed per user. The cost of widespread 
distribution in house or commercially made it completely untenable for me. 

I'm not sure if licensing has been addressed. If not then I think we can expect 
Filemaker to maintain it's market position without too much future growth. 

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2019, at 08:47 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 2:01 PM hh via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>>> Trevor D. wrote:
>>> If that is the case and they can build that revenue source
>>> then it should ultimately be a good thing for those of us
>>> who don't use LiveCode FM. It is unfortunate that LC has
>>> to sit mostly idle for so long though.
>> 
>> All true. But will the idle state of LC ever change again?
>> 
> 
> I believe that it will if LiveCode FM gets traction. I may be wrong.
> 
> 
>> Filemaker is updating its features fast and so LiveCode will
>> FOREVER try to reach their goal of supporting 99% of the FM
>> features: "Version 1.2 of LCFM covers approximately 78% of
>> the total FileMaker feature set" ...
>> 
> 
> Creating a great product is a wonderful journey that can go on
> indefinitely given the right variables. If LiveCode FM generates lots of
> revenue then it will continue on. And hopefully fuel the development of the
> underlying technology (LiveCode) that LiveCode FM is built on.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com


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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 2:01 PM hh via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> > Trevor D. wrote:
> > If that is the case and they can build that revenue source
> > then it should ultimately be a good thing for those of us
> > who don't use LiveCode FM. It is unfortunate that LC has
> > to sit mostly idle for so long though.
>
> All true. But will the idle state of LC ever change again?
>

I believe that it will if LiveCode FM gets traction. I may be wrong.


> Filemaker is updating its features fast and so LiveCode will
> FOREVER try to reach their goal of supporting 99% of the FM
> features: "Version 1.2 of LCFM covers approximately 78% of
> the total FileMaker feature set" ...
>

Creating a great product is a wonderful journey that can go on
indefinitely given the right variables. If LiveCode FM generates lots of
revenue then it will continue on. And hopefully fuel the development of the
underlying technology (LiveCode) that LiveCode FM is built on.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 4:56 AM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> I'm reading between the
> lines but Trevor probably knows how well it's doing - but the rest of use
> are being treated like mushrooms.
>

Hi Lagi,

I do not have any additional information about how well the FM project or
the company is doing. The last update I received was what others heard at
the LiveCode Conference. My thoughts are based on what I think I would do
if I was in their place.

While I make my business decisions based on what LiveCode can do now (a
wise senior engineer once counseled me not to base my business on what
other companies *might* do), I am very interested in the company's health
as the LiveCode platform affects my ability to deliver great software using
LiveCode in the future. LiveCode is a very ambitious project. The number of
platforms they are trying to support requires an enormous amount of
planning, programming, and other resources to create, maintain, and
improve. I am heavily invested in LiveCode as a platform so I want very
much for the company to have healthy revenue streams.

Based on what I've heard, the LiveCode FM product addresses a very
important problem that companies are willing to pay recurring licensing
fees to overcome. It is a wonderful thing when a company can find a large
pool of customers that have a problem they are willing pay to them you to
solve. So while I'm less enthusiastic about development on LiveCode slowing
down right now, I support the company pursuing this opportunity.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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HTML5

[Alain Vezina via use-livecode]

How come when I test my app in the developement test using my browser, 
everything is ok. and
when I test the same app as standalone in my web site, nothing appear after 3 
or 4 minutes?

My standalone-commercial-9.0.2.js is 28.5 Mo. I guess that is the reason...

Alain Vezina
logilangue.com
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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

The code looks like Pascal. Variable typing, declaration and scoping. Not 
english like. Perhaps you missed the whole point of Livecode, and it's 
predecessors Hypercard, Supercard and Metacard. Livecode is the alternative to 
environments like Lazarus, great for someone with the time (and probably the 
training and experience) to program in a mid level language, but not for 
someone like me, who actually began to learn Pascal years ago, and gave it up 
when I realized how much time and effort it was going to take to learn, when 
all I ever wanted to do was cobble together some utility apps to help with my 
real job of managing information. 

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2019, at 07:36 , Dalton Calford via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> especially since I can use Lazarus to generate cross platform apps with a
> fully open source tool set.


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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Wow. I have the opposite experience. I think that t he LC Dev team is more 
responsive than any other I have ever experienced. I've been in IT for a really 
long time, and have dealt with a number of apps and dev environments. I've seen 
more feature developments in LC than all the rest combined. 

People should really lighten up on these devs. Most of the issues have 
workarounds, and frankly those issues should take a back seat to the really 
serious ones. I've been waiting for a good long while for the devs to implement 
a very simple fix in t he DG library to allow nested behaviors in datagrids. 
But I have a workaround I have to implement for each version I DL. It's no big 
deal. 

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2019, at 07:36 , Dalton Calford via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I first bought livecode back in 2010, they had lots of hype and promises at
> the time, most of the promises did not really start to arrive until the
> open source kickstarter (such as version control).
> I have tried to make sense of the code base, in order to add support for a
> few things, such as native support for a new sql engine (firebird) but
> between the products unstable UI (at least on linux) and the not-really
> open source elements of the tool, stopped me from investigating it further,
> especially since I can use Lazarus to generate cross platform apps with a
> fully open source tool set.
> I gave it one last try with the LC 9 release, but, the lack of development
> and the split of support from 9 to 9.5 within months of my getting the
> license, tells me that, as a developer, there is little reason for me to
> try to learn the language.   I know of many others who tried and walked
> away from livecode, mostly due to the way they have managed it.
> I have been watching for awhile since I was a fan of hypercard back in the
> day, but, from the viewpoint of a wysiwyg design, cross platform, native
> compile environment, livecode is not something I would recommend to anyone.
> I have hopped that would change, but, after 9 years, nothing has really
> changed.


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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Dalton Calford via use-livecode]

I first bought livecode back in 2010, they had lots of hype and promises at
the time, most of the promises did not really start to arrive until the
open source kickstarter (such as version control).
I have tried to make sense of the code base, in order to add support for a
few things, such as native support for a new sql engine (firebird) but
between the products unstable UI (at least on linux) and the not-really
open source elements of the tool, stopped me from investigating it further,
especially since I can use Lazarus to generate cross platform apps with a
fully open source tool set.
I gave it one last try with the LC 9 release, but, the lack of development
and the split of support from 9 to 9.5 within months of my getting the
license, tells me that, as a developer, there is little reason for me to
try to learn the language.   I know of many others who tried and walked
away from livecode, mostly due to the way they have managed it.
I have been watching for awhile since I was a fan of hypercard back in the
day, but, from the viewpoint of a wysiwyg design, cross platform, native
compile environment, livecode is not something I would recommend to anyone.
I have hopped that would change, but, after 9 years, nothing has really
changed.


On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 09:33, Dan Brown via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I'm sure that LC HQ would have loved to solely preside over the language
> and a flourishing opensource and enterprise community that kept the lights
> on . Unfortunately that just hasn't happened since the kickstarter
> campaign. Without the LCFM  lifeline I think they may have ceased to exist
> in the medium term.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:08 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > poor comms don't make this better.  one good thing about LCG was that we
> > had bi-monthly updates.  this year, no comms.
> > i am less hopeful that the influx of new revenue will matter in the
> medium
> > term, because most of the effort will be on the requests that are tied to
> > the new revenue.
> > every time this has happened with any other tool we use here, we wait
> with
> > disappointment.  then at any sign of effort, we get excited, and then we
> > seep back into disappointment.
> > it's feeling like it's time to back-burner LC, too.  there is good energy
> > from about 50 people, but the mother ship is doing a poor job of managing
> > that energy.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 5:56 AM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > It doesn't take a Sherlock home to work out that if (I hope when!)
> LCFM
> > > works out that the company will have
> > > an influx of "new blood" with the attendant large increase in yearly
> > > subscriptions.
> > >
> > > My very short post (cut down from my usual rants) was lobbing a tiny
> hand
> > > grenade in to arena, and see if someone at LCHQ
> > > bites and tells us something of consequence rather than "it's going
> well"
> > > or LC will be the better for all the new stuff they are working on.
> > >
> > > Surely if they have some extra money coming in they can have someone
> > > working on finishing all the (paid for) promises and milestones.
> > > (HH and Sean  I feel your pain - HTML5 anyone?). I'm reading between
> the
> > > lines but Trevor probably knows how well it's doing - but the rest of
> use
> > > are being treated like mushrooms.
> > >
> > > "Soon" can be years rather than months and weeks - and typically is
> > years.
> > > For example Filemaker has a precision of 16 to 400 digits. So that MUST
> > > have been coded for, will we get that retrofitted in the future .
> > > I'm not asking because I need 400 digits but you never know.
> > >
> > > Filemaker has data binding and field Validation.
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://fmhelp.filemaker.com/help/16/fmp/en/#page/FMP_Help%2Ffield-validation.html%23
> > >
> > > (I could do that in Clipper in 1985 with field masks). Yes I've rolled
> my
> > > own but their are things  better done as a standard in an LC library.
> > >
> > > When is the IDE that still crashes at least 4 times a day whenever I
> run
> > > through more than 5 breakpoints in succession,going to get some love.
> > > What about the Script Editor being SLOWER than molasses - 4 seconds
> > between
> > > key presses.
> > > What about Sqlite engine/library, the 2D physics where we were told
> there
> > > was a working version over a year ago. The Sound on Linux. What about
> the
> > > raspberry PI version. I shouldn't need to go on.
> > >
> > > I want LCFM  to work like the next guy but please tell us what is going
> > on
> > > and  when.
> > >
> > > I'd rather base my decisions on facts rather than airy fairy words.
> > >
> > > Are more programmers coming on board or is LCFM the new shiny object?
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > Sorry for the Mr Angry tone , but I'm a little (make that very
> irritated)
> > > at the moment, as I  just got 

Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Lagi, taking Sherlock home is a bad idea. I took him home once. He started 
doing experiments on top of the kitchen table. The last straw was when he shot 
holes in the wall because he was bored. I said, "HOLMES! That's it! Get out 
now!"

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2019, at 02:55 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> It doesn't take a Sherlock home to work out that if (I hope when!)  LCFM
> works out that the company will have
> an influx of "new blood" with the attendant large increase in yearly
> subscriptions.


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Background Audio in Mobile Apps

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

One of my users says that a previous version of our app, as long is it remained 
open, continued to play audio, even when they went to another app..

"While I am listening audio’s in the Siva Siva app, new bug:  Automatically 
stopping audio while screen off or moved one app to another app Or screen in 
iOS. It does not continue, like the music app."

He says this was working in a previous version.

I have checked in the standalone, (have done so from the beginning through 
previous versions)

_ Enable Background Execution
_ Background Audio

Are these now "broken"?

BR

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Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Dan Brown via use-livecode]

I'm sure that LC HQ would have loved to solely preside over the language
and a flourishing opensource and enterprise community that kept the lights
on . Unfortunately that just hasn't happened since the kickstarter
campaign. Without the LCFM  lifeline I think they may have ceased to exist
in the medium term.



On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 2:08 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> poor comms don't make this better.  one good thing about LCG was that we
> had bi-monthly updates.  this year, no comms.
> i am less hopeful that the influx of new revenue will matter in the medium
> term, because most of the effort will be on the requests that are tied to
> the new revenue.
> every time this has happened with any other tool we use here, we wait with
> disappointment.  then at any sign of effort, we get excited, and then we
> seep back into disappointment.
> it's feeling like it's time to back-burner LC, too.  there is good energy
> from about 50 people, but the mother ship is doing a poor job of managing
> that energy.
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 5:56 AM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > It doesn't take a Sherlock home to work out that if (I hope when!)  LCFM
> > works out that the company will have
> > an influx of "new blood" with the attendant large increase in yearly
> > subscriptions.
> >
> > My very short post (cut down from my usual rants) was lobbing a tiny hand
> > grenade in to arena, and see if someone at LCHQ
> > bites and tells us something of consequence rather than "it's going well"
> > or LC will be the better for all the new stuff they are working on.
> >
> > Surely if they have some extra money coming in they can have someone
> > working on finishing all the (paid for) promises and milestones.
> > (HH and Sean  I feel your pain - HTML5 anyone?). I'm reading between the
> > lines but Trevor probably knows how well it's doing - but the rest of use
> > are being treated like mushrooms.
> >
> > "Soon" can be years rather than months and weeks - and typically is
> years.
> > For example Filemaker has a precision of 16 to 400 digits. So that MUST
> > have been coded for, will we get that retrofitted in the future .
> > I'm not asking because I need 400 digits but you never know.
> >
> > Filemaker has data binding and field Validation.
> >
> >
> https://fmhelp.filemaker.com/help/16/fmp/en/#page/FMP_Help%2Ffield-validation.html%23
> >
> > (I could do that in Clipper in 1985 with field masks). Yes I've rolled my
> > own but their are things  better done as a standard in an LC library.
> >
> > When is the IDE that still crashes at least 4 times a day whenever I  run
> > through more than 5 breakpoints in succession,going to get some love.
> > What about the Script Editor being SLOWER than molasses - 4 seconds
> between
> > key presses.
> > What about Sqlite engine/library, the 2D physics where we were told there
> > was a working version over a year ago. The Sound on Linux. What about the
> > raspberry PI version. I shouldn't need to go on.
> >
> > I want LCFM  to work like the next guy but please tell us what is going
> on
> > and  when.
> >
> > I'd rather base my decisions on facts rather than airy fairy words.
> >
> > Are more programmers coming on board or is LCFM the new shiny object?
> >
> >
> > 
> > Sorry for the Mr Angry tone , but I'm a little (make that very irritated)
> > at the moment, as I  just got off the phone to the Bank where the Zombie
> > script reader who asked me 8 (countem EIGHT questions) to get me past
> > security
> > and I was only phoning up to ask why my Card Readers hadn't arrived.
> > People can have £70,000 taken out of their accounts with just a sortcode,
> > name and account number and I am asked for 8 pieces of information to ask
> > where the card readers  that were ordered nearly 3 weeks ago were!!!
> > 
> >
> > Regards Lagi
> >
> > p.s.
> >
> > Two Card readers turned up after my call. - Two more are on their way.
> > Maybe if i look at downloads ther might be a version 10 Stable of
> Livecode
> > ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 23:25, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > We all need livecode the company to be stable and profitable, so if
> they
> > > have to temporarily focus on x to create long term viability, then they
> > > should do it. Maybe just let everyone know what the plan isand
> maybe
> > on
> > > a release with multiple bug fixes such as 9.05 is important to
> prioritize
> > > it a little bit.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 3:17 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 10/2/19 11:24 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I suspect that the quick updates to LiveCode FM are a sign that the
> > > > launch
> > > > > at the FileMaker conference generated a lot of interest and there
> is
> > > some
> > > > > momentum building there. 

Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

poor comms don't make this better.  one good thing about LCG was that we
had bi-monthly updates.  this year, no comms.
i am less hopeful that the influx of new revenue will matter in the medium
term, because most of the effort will be on the requests that are tied to
the new revenue.
every time this has happened with any other tool we use here, we wait with
disappointment.  then at any sign of effort, we get excited, and then we
seep back into disappointment.
it's feeling like it's time to back-burner LC, too.  there is good energy
from about 50 people, but the mother ship is doing a poor job of managing
that energy.

On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 5:56 AM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> It doesn't take a Sherlock home to work out that if (I hope when!)  LCFM
> works out that the company will have
> an influx of "new blood" with the attendant large increase in yearly
> subscriptions.
>
> My very short post (cut down from my usual rants) was lobbing a tiny hand
> grenade in to arena, and see if someone at LCHQ
> bites and tells us something of consequence rather than "it's going well"
> or LC will be the better for all the new stuff they are working on.
>
> Surely if they have some extra money coming in they can have someone
> working on finishing all the (paid for) promises and milestones.
> (HH and Sean  I feel your pain - HTML5 anyone?). I'm reading between the
> lines but Trevor probably knows how well it's doing - but the rest of use
> are being treated like mushrooms.
>
> "Soon" can be years rather than months and weeks - and typically is years.
> For example Filemaker has a precision of 16 to 400 digits. So that MUST
> have been coded for, will we get that retrofitted in the future .
> I'm not asking because I need 400 digits but you never know.
>
> Filemaker has data binding and field Validation.
>
> https://fmhelp.filemaker.com/help/16/fmp/en/#page/FMP_Help%2Ffield-validation.html%23
>
> (I could do that in Clipper in 1985 with field masks). Yes I've rolled my
> own but their are things  better done as a standard in an LC library.
>
> When is the IDE that still crashes at least 4 times a day whenever I  run
> through more than 5 breakpoints in succession,going to get some love.
> What about the Script Editor being SLOWER than molasses - 4 seconds between
> key presses.
> What about Sqlite engine/library, the 2D physics where we were told there
> was a working version over a year ago. The Sound on Linux. What about the
> raspberry PI version. I shouldn't need to go on.
>
> I want LCFM  to work like the next guy but please tell us what is going on
> and  when.
>
> I'd rather base my decisions on facts rather than airy fairy words.
>
> Are more programmers coming on board or is LCFM the new shiny object?
>
>
> 
> Sorry for the Mr Angry tone , but I'm a little (make that very irritated)
> at the moment, as I  just got off the phone to the Bank where the Zombie
> script reader who asked me 8 (countem EIGHT questions) to get me past
> security
> and I was only phoning up to ask why my Card Readers hadn't arrived.
> People can have £70,000 taken out of their accounts with just a sortcode,
> name and account number and I am asked for 8 pieces of information to ask
> where the card readers  that were ordered nearly 3 weeks ago were!!!
> 
>
> Regards Lagi
>
> p.s.
>
> Two Card readers turned up after my call. - Two more are on their way.
> Maybe if i look at downloads ther might be a version 10 Stable of Livecode
> ;-)
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 23:25, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > We all need livecode the company to be stable and profitable, so if they
> > have to temporarily focus on x to create long term viability, then they
> > should do it. Maybe just let everyone know what the plan isand maybe
> on
> > a release with multiple bug fixes such as 9.05 is important to prioritize
> > it a little bit.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 3:17 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 10/2/19 11:24 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
> > >
> > > > I suspect that the quick updates to LiveCode FM are a sign that the
> > > launch
> > > > at the FileMaker conference generated a lot of interest and there is
> > some
> > > > momentum building there. Perhaps they are trying to quickly fill in
> the
> > > > gaps based on that interest so that they can close more licensing
> > deals?
> > > If
> > > > that is the case and they can build that revenue source then it
> should
> > > > ultimately be a good thing for those of us who don't use LiveCode FM.
> > It
> > > is
> > > > unfortunate that LC has to sit mostly idle for so long though.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Indeed. There are currently some 200 or so pull requests waiting in the
> > > queue for action.
> > >
> > > I'm encouraged by this: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/7185
> > >
> > > --
> > >   Mark Wieder
> > >   

Re: ...and Livecode... where are we now?

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Hi Tom,

It doesn't take a Sherlock home to work out that if (I hope when!)  LCFM
works out that the company will have
an influx of "new blood" with the attendant large increase in yearly
subscriptions.

My very short post (cut down from my usual rants) was lobbing a tiny hand
grenade in to arena, and see if someone at LCHQ
bites and tells us something of consequence rather than "it's going well"
or LC will be the better for all the new stuff they are working on.

Surely if they have some extra money coming in they can have someone
working on finishing all the (paid for) promises and milestones.
(HH and Sean  I feel your pain - HTML5 anyone?). I'm reading between the
lines but Trevor probably knows how well it's doing - but the rest of use
are being treated like mushrooms.

"Soon" can be years rather than months and weeks - and typically is years.
For example Filemaker has a precision of 16 to 400 digits. So that MUST
have been coded for, will we get that retrofitted in the future .
I'm not asking because I need 400 digits but you never know.

Filemaker has data binding and field Validation.
https://fmhelp.filemaker.com/help/16/fmp/en/#page/FMP_Help%2Ffield-validation.html%23

(I could do that in Clipper in 1985 with field masks). Yes I've rolled my
own but their are things  better done as a standard in an LC library.

When is the IDE that still crashes at least 4 times a day whenever I  run
through more than 5 breakpoints in succession,going to get some love.
What about the Script Editor being SLOWER than molasses - 4 seconds between
key presses.
What about Sqlite engine/library, the 2D physics where we were told there
was a working version over a year ago. The Sound on Linux. What about the
raspberry PI version. I shouldn't need to go on.

I want LCFM  to work like the next guy but please tell us what is going on
and  when.

I'd rather base my decisions on facts rather than airy fairy words.

Are more programmers coming on board or is LCFM the new shiny object?



Sorry for the Mr Angry tone , but I'm a little (make that very irritated)
at the moment, as I  just got off the phone to the Bank where the Zombie
script reader who asked me 8 (countem EIGHT questions) to get me past
security
and I was only phoning up to ask why my Card Readers hadn't arrived.
People can have £70,000 taken out of their accounts with just a sortcode,
name and account number and I am asked for 8 pieces of information to ask
where the card readers  that were ordered nearly 3 weeks ago were!!!


Regards Lagi

p.s.

Two Card readers turned up after my call. - Two more are on their way.
Maybe if i look at downloads ther might be a version 10 Stable of Livecode
;-)



On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 23:25, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> We all need livecode the company to be stable and profitable, so if they
> have to temporarily focus on x to create long term viability, then they
> should do it. Maybe just let everyone know what the plan isand maybe on
> a release with multiple bug fixes such as 9.05 is important to prioritize
> it a little bit.
>
> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 3:17 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > On 10/2/19 11:24 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
> >
> > > I suspect that the quick updates to LiveCode FM are a sign that the
> > launch
> > > at the FileMaker conference generated a lot of interest and there is
> some
> > > momentum building there. Perhaps they are trying to quickly fill in the
> > > gaps based on that interest so that they can close more licensing
> deals?
> > If
> > > that is the case and they can build that revenue source then it should
> > > ultimately be a good thing for those of us who don't use LiveCode FM.
> It
> > is
> > > unfortunate that LC has to sit mostly idle for so long though.
> > >
> >
> > Indeed. There are currently some 200 or so pull requests waiting in the
> > queue for action.
> >
> > I'm encouraged by this: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/7185
> >
> > --
> >   Mark Wieder
> >   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> >
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>
> --
> Tom Glod
> Founder & Developer
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Re: Livecode unit test harness?

[Ali Lloyd via use-livecode]

Actually the exec-tests folder should probably be removed - that was our
initial attempt at adding a test for each syntax variant while we were
doing the refactoring project. They were translated at some point into the
new test format at
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/tree/develop/tests/lcs/core.

This blog post is still worth a look even though it is now two years out of
date: https://livecode.com/testing-1-2-28534/ - nothing fundamental
has changed about test structure since then. If you're planning on writing
(LCS) tests, this document describes the API of the test library
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/docs/development/testing.md

I still need to write a bit about integrating Travis CI at some point!

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 22:06, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> This may be what you are looking for.  Specific pieces of the engine are
> tested for every build.
>
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/tree/develop/engine/exec-tests
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On Oct 2, 2019, 3:06 PM -0400, kee nethery via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > I assume RunRev does unit tests for LiveCode.
> >
> > Is there a test harness where we can submit a stack to be in the unit
> test set of tests that they use?
> >
> > Hypercard was hella reliable, I’d love for Livecode to be as reliable.
> >
> > Kee Nethery
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