Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Bill Vlahos via use-livecode]

Heather,

I appreciate your answer.

Thank you,
Bill Vlahos

> On Oct 16, 2023, at 3:31 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes, that was the question I was answering.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Oct 2023, at 18:58, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes that is definitely the case.
>> 
>> But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones 
>> will still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 
>> 10.0.6. At least that was my understanding. ;) 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 
>>> 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-
>>> From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of 
>>> Heather Laine via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode 
>>> Cc: Heather Laine 
>>> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
>>> 
>>> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the 
>>> way they are implementing menus.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> ___
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>> 
>> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

Yes, that was the question I was answering.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 13 Oct 2023, at 18:58, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes that is definitely the case.
> 
> But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones will 
> still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 10.0.6. At 
> least that was my understanding. ;) 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 
>> 10.0.6 WAS the fix for this. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of 
>> Heather Laine via use-livecode
>> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode 
>> Cc: Heather Laine 
>> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
>> 
>> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way 
>> they are implementing menus.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
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>> preferences:
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> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Yes that is definitely the case.

But Bill asked if Apple will "fix that in Sonoma" so his old standalones will 
still work under Sonoma without building them again with 9.6.10 or 10.0.6. At 
least that was my understanding. ;) 



> Am 13.10.2023 um 18:32 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 
> WAS the fix for this. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of 
> Heather Laine via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Cc: Heather Laine 
> Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma
> 
> I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way 
> they are implementing menus.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
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RE: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Heather, just to be clear, I was under the implression that 9.6.10 and 10.0.6 
WAS the fix for this. 

Bob S


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of Heather 
Laine via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2023 1:37 AM
To: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Heather Laine 
Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way 
they are implementing menus.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com

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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

I don't think you can hope for that. It's not a bug, its a change in the way 
they are implementing menus.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 12 Oct 2023, at 18:10, Bill Vlahos  wrote:
> 
> Heather,
> 
> Do you think Apple will address this issue in an update to Sonoma?
> 
> Rebuilding all my applications will be difficult.
> 
> Thank you,
> Bill Vlahos
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Matthias,
>> 
>> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be 
>> affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  
>> prior to the fix.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Heather,
>>> 
>>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>>> 
>>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will 
>>> run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Matthias
>>> 
>>> 
 Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode 
 :
 
 Hi Rolf,
 
 No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how 
 Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on 
 Sonoma unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
 
 Best Regards,
 
 Heather
 
 Heather Laine
 Customer Services Manager
 LiveCode Ltd
 www.livecode.com
 
 
 
> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> @Matthias and the Mothership,
> 
> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a 
> critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor 
> DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
> 
> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started 
> crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve 
> this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a 
> new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my 
> work without Clarify.
> 
> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app 
> functional again?
> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rolf
> 
> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com:
> 
> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not 
> make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an 
> alert.
> 
> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
> 
> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Bill Vlahos via use-livecode]

Heather,

Do you think Apple will address this issue in an update to Sonoma?

Rebuilding all my applications will be difficult.

Thank you,
Bill Vlahos

> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be 
> affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  
> prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Heather,
>> 
>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>> 
>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will 
>> run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Hi Rolf,
>>> 
>>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how 
>>> Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma 
>>> unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 @Matthias and the Mothership,
 
 My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a 
 critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor 
 DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
 
 Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started 
 crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve 
 this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a 
 new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my 
 work without Clarify.
 
 Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app 
 functional again?
 Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
 
 Cheers,
 Rolf
 
 Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com:
 
 Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not 
 make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
 
 But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
 
 Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
 
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 subscription preferences:
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I think it refers to the belly rub emoji. (Rub Icon? Anyone??  never 
mind.)

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2023, at 2:38 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Bob wrote:
>> 
>> So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of 
>> sorts. There?s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a 
>> sentence today.)
> 
> Rubicon.  
> Does that mean the rubes have been conned?
> 
> 
> Jim Lambert
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Jim Lambert via use-livecode]

> Bob wrote:
> 
> So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of 
> sorts. There?s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a 
> sentence today.)

Rubicon.  
Does that mean the rubes have been conned?


Jim Lambert
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[doc hawk via use-livecode]

bob bobbled,

So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of
sorts. There’s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a
sentence today.)


Shelly cahn’t speak with wi’out a New Ahngland oxcent, but Rubicon!

Ok, I’ll call back under my rock
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Hello Heather,

i meant that simple default menu that is automatically created when Livecode 
creates a macOS standalone.

But tested now in Sonoma VM and my older apps without just that simple default 
menu run w/o problems.

> Am 03.10.2023 um 15:56 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be 
> affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  
> prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Heather,
>> 
>> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
>> 
>> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will 
>> run as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Hi Rolf,
>>> 
>>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how 
>>> Sonoma handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma 
>>> unless built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 @Matthias and the Mothership,
 
 My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a 
 critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor 
 DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
 
 Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started 
 crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve 
 this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a 
 new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my 
 work without Clarify.
 
 Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app 
 functional again?
 Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
 
 Cheers,
 Rolf
 
 Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com:
 
 Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not 
 make sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
 
 But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
 
 Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
 
 ___
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 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Rolf,

now that Heather clarified that this problem has to do with menus,  only the 
developer of Clarify could help with a working version of Clarify for Sonoma.

Btw. Clarify (and Screensteps 2)  are two of the best tools i've ever used. I 
am still using Clarify regularly.
There is no real competitor for it. At least i do not know any program that has 
all the features and user comfort.

There is a program called Folge (https://folge.me ) and 
although i have a license for it and it gets better with each update, I can't 
get used to it..
Maybe i am just too spoiled by Clarify. ;)

Matthias

> Am 03.10.2023 um 10:53 schrieb Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> @Matthias and the Mothership,
> 
> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a 
> critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor 
> DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
> 
> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started 
> crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this 
> issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new 
> subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work 
> without Clarify.
> 
> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional 
> again?
> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rolf
> 
> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com:
> 
> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make 
> sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
> 
> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
> 
> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

So for those upgrading to Sonoma, 9.6.10 and 10 dp6 are now a rubicon of sorts. 
There’s no going back. (I just needed to use the word Rubicon in a sentence 
today.) 

Bob S


> On Oct 3, 2023, at 6:56 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be 
> affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  
> prior to the fix.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com

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RE: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

You think you have it bad. Apple just announced the $17,000 older gold Apple 
Watches can no longer be fixed or have SW updates. Glad my VB6 apps, Timex and 
paper maps still work.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2023 4:53 AM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Rolf Kocherhans
Subject: Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

@Matthias and the Mothership,

My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical 
issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This 
app is extremely important to me.

Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing 
with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by 
signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription 
with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.

Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional 
again?
Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.

Cheers,
Rolf

Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com:

Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make 
sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.

But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.

Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?

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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

Hi Matthias,

I think ANY menu will cause a crash. |f your app has no menus it will not be 
affected by the issue. Otherwise, it will crash, as does LiveCode itself  prior 
to the fix.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 3 Oct 2023, at 11:53, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Heather,
> 
> thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.
> 
> At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run 
> as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> 
>> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi Rolf,
>> 
>> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma 
>> handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless 
>> built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>>> 
>>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a 
>>> critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor 
>>> DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started 
>>> crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve 
>>> this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a 
>>> new subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my 
>>> work without Clarify.
>>> 
>>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app 
>>> functional again?
>>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Rolf
>>> 
>>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com:
>>> 
>>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make 
>>> sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>>> 
>>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>>> 
>>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>>> 
>>> ___
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>> 
>> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Hi Heather,

thanks for clarifying the reason for the crashes.

At least this grants that standalones created with older LC versions will run 
as long as they do not contain a customized menu, right?

Regards,
Matthias


> Am 03.10.2023 um 12:24 schrieb Heather Laine via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi Rolf,
> 
> No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma 
> handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless 
> built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> @Matthias and the Mothership,
>> 
>> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a 
>> critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor 
>> DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started 
>> crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve 
>> this issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new 
>> subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work 
>> without Clarify.
>> 
>> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app 
>> functional again?
>> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Rolf
>> 
>> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com:
>> 
>> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make 
>> sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
>> 
>> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
>> 
>> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
>> 
>> ___
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>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
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> 
> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Heather Laine via use-livecode]

Hi Rolf,

No, the problem is not related to signing. The problem centers on how Sonoma 
handles menus, and any app that contains a menu will crash on Sonoma unless 
built with LiveCode 9.6.10 or 10 dp-6.

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 3 Oct 2023, at 09:53, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> @Matthias and the Mothership,
> 
> My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a 
> critical issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor 
> DeVore. This app is extremely important to me.
> 
> Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started 
> crashing with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this 
> issue by signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new 
> subscription with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work 
> without Clarify.
> 
> Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional 
> again?
> Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rolf
> 
> Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com:
> 
> Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make 
> sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.
> 
> But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.
> 
> Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?
> 
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> preferences:
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode]

@Matthias and the Mothership,

My Apple Developer account expired several years ago, and I'm facing a critical 
issue with one of my LiveCode Apps, Clarify, developed by Trevor DeVore. This 
app is extremely important to me.

Unfortunately, Clarify is no longer actively developed and has started crashing 
with Sonoma. I am wondering if there's a possibility to resolve this issue by 
signing the bundles. I am more than willing to invest in a new subscription 
with Apple if that's what it takes – I can't imagine my work without Clarify.

Could someone please test if signing the bundles might make an app functional 
again?
Your assistance in this matter would mean the world to me.

Cheers,
Rolf

Am 30.09.2023 um 18:00 schrieb use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com:

Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make 
sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert.

But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it.

Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?

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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I mean unsigned anything. I use some utility apps unrelated to Livecode which I 
had to allow when I ran them the first time if memory serves. 

Bob S


> On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:34 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you mean unsigned standalones, I just checked one of mine developed 
> probably in 9.6 or 9.7 and it worked.
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:22 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma?
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 
>> 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed
>> that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely 
>> code signed.
>> 
>> I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there 
>> for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid 
>> signature, but the livecode executables of  9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't.
>> So maybe  this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma.
>> 
>> If you have a current Apple Developer  subscription you could try to code 
>> sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this 
>> will allow to run these versions under Sonoma.
>> I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2  and an 
>> "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed.
>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
>> 
>> Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> ___
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
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> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

Maybe my observation is not the reason for the crash. Would really not make 
sense, when an unsigned app would crash instead of reporting an alert. 

But code signing  the complete Livecode app bundle would proof it. 

Did someone btw had a look at the system log file after the crash?

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 30.09.2023 um 01:23 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma?
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 
> 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed
> that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely 
> code signed.
> 
> I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there 
> for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid 
> signature, but the livecode executables of  9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't.
> So maybe  this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma.
> 
> If you have a current Apple Developer  subscription you could try to code 
> sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this 
> will allow to run these versions under Sonoma.
> I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2  and an 
> "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed.
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma
> 
> Roger
> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

If you mean unsigned standalones, I just checked one of mine developed probably 
in 9.6 or 9.7 and it worked.

Roger

> On Sep 29, 2023, at 4:22 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma?
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 
> 10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed
> that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely 
> code signed.
> 
> I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there 
> for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid 
> signature, but the livecode executables of  9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't.
> So maybe  this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma.
> 
> If you have a current Apple Developer  subscription you could try to code 
> sign and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this 
> will allow to run these versions under Sonoma.
> I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2  and an 
> "enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed.
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma
> 
> Roger
> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Hmmm… I wonder if we can expect ALL unsigned apps to crash under Sonoma?

Bob S


On Sep 29, 2023, at 3:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
 wrote:

While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 
10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed
that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code 
signed.

I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there 
for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, 
but the livecode executables of  9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't.
So maybe  this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma.

If you have a current Apple Developer  subscription you could try to code sign 
and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will 
allow to run these versions under Sonoma.
I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2  and an 
"enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed.
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576




Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:

Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma

Roger

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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

While checking the different binaries of the app bundles of 9.6.9, 9.6.10, 
10dp4 and 10.dp6 i noticed
that only 9.6.10 and 10DP6 app bundles have all their binaries completely code 
signed.

I just checked the content of the macOS folder of the app bundles, but there 
for example the livecode executables of 9.6.10 and 10DP6 have valid signature, 
but the livecode executables of  9.6.9 and 10DP4 haven't.
So maybe  this is the reason why the older releases do not work in Sonoma.

If you have a current Apple Developer  subscription you could try to code sign 
and notarize the complete app bundle of 9.6.9 for example. Maybe this will 
allow to run these versions under Sonoma.
I did this some time ago, if i remember right then with 10DP2  and an 
"enhanced" plist to get an other problem fixed. 
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23576




> Am 29.09.2023 um 23:03 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 1:26 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in 
>> Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that 
>> works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 
>> 4) that might work?
>> 
>> Oh and Firewall is inactive
>> 
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running 
>>> with LC 9.6.10.
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
 On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing 
 but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch 
 (correct me if I am wrong). 
 
 Bob S
 
 
> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me 
> the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma 
> v14.0 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
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>>> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Finally, I can confirm that 10.0.0-dp-6 works in Sonoma

Roger

> On Sep 29, 2023, at 1:26 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in 
> Sonoma. To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that 
> works in Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 
> 4) that might work?
> 
> Oh and Firewall is inactive
> 
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running 
>> with LC 9.6.10.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing 
>>> but do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch 
>>> (correct me if I am wrong). 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me 
 the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 
 on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Roger
 
 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Nope, removing the plugins is not the answer to making LiveCode work in Sonoma. 
To be clear, I have found that LC 9.6.10 is the only version that works in 
Sonoma. I’m not sure if there is a subsequent version of 10.0.0 (DP 4) that 
might work?

Oh and Firewall is inactive


Roger

> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:33 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running 
> with LC 9.6.10.
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but 
>> do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch 
>> (correct me if I am wrong). 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me 
>>> the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 
>>> on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Thanks, Bob, I’ll give that a try later today. At least I am up and running 
with LC 9.6.10.

Roger

> On Sep 29, 2023, at 8:30 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but 
> do you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct 
> me if I am wrong). 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the 
>> “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my 
>> Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

As always, remove all your plugins and try again. Also, just spitballing but do 
you have your firewall enabled? LC checks for licensing on launch (correct me 
if I am wrong). 

Bob S


> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the 
> “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my 
> Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[James At The Hales via use-livecode]

LC 10 dp6 and the current 9.6.10 all work for me on Sonoma. 14.0
Builds from both work, although for me the build process for 10dp6 doesn’t end 
(the standalone is built though). Also the dictionary in 10dp6 doesn’t work on 
my mac.

James

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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I have successfully run a build of my 'Devawriter Pro' built with LC 9.6.3
Open Source on an early beta of MacOS 14.

My DWPro builds contain NONE of the inclusions.

Your mileage may vary.

Best, Richmond.

On Fri, 29 Sept 2023, 15:13 Geoff Canyon via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me.
>
> I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't
> die (at least not immediately).
>
> gc
>
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build
> > on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma.
> >
> > Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?)
> >
> >
> > On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
> > > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give
> me
> > the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma
> v14.0
> > on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Roger
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Tore Nilsen via use-livecode]

LiveCode 9.6.9 Build 15604 works in Sonoma, the same goes for LiveCode 10 DP6. 
Try to download 9.6.9 again, you may have an older build of 9.6.9.

Tore

> 29. sep. 2023 kl. 14:12 skrev Geoff Canyon via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me.
> 
> I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't
> die (at least not immediately).
> 
> gc
> 
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build
>> on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma.
>> 
>> Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?)
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me
>> the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0
>> on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

Confirming that 9.6.9 dies immediately on launch for me.

I have a standalone I built with one of the 9.6.x builds, and that doesn't
die (at least not immediately).

gc

On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:23 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build
> on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma.
>
> Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?)
>
>
> On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me
> the “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0
> on my Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Roger
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

I've not tested personally, but I have been told that STANDALONEs build 
on 9.6.9 work on Sonoma.


Can any one running Sonoma test confirm this? (Perhaps again?)


On 9/28/2023 10:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:

Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the 
“LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my 
Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.

Thanks,

Roger


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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Not as far as I can tell: currently upgrading to the 14.1 beta release, 
and if that fails I have to spend "a dirty weekend" 'degrading' to MacOS 
13 Ventura and then, on the basis of my Time Machine backup, 'putting 
all the pieces together again'.



Best [or, in the light of Apple's non-backwardly-compatible thing': 
Worst], Richmond.


On 29.09.23 5:51, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:

Ok, I guess I’ve been out to Lunch. A review of the list revealed that V9.6.10 
works. Downloaded it and indeed it does work. Is that the whole story? Will the 
older Community versions not work in Sonoma forevermore?

Roger



On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the 
“LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my 
Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.

Thanks,

Roger


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Re: All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Ok, I guess I’ve been out to Lunch. A review of the list revealed that V9.6.10 
works. Downloaded it and indeed it does work. Is that the whole story? Will the 
older Community versions not work in Sonoma forevermore?

Roger


> On Sep 28, 2023, at 7:22 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the 
> “LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my 
> Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> ___
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All Versions of LC crashing in Sonoma

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Hope to find help here. LC Versions 9.6.3, 9.6.9, and 10.0.0 all give me the 
“LiveCode quit unexpectedly" on launch after upgrading to Sonoma v14.0 on my 
Mac, And no, Reopen does not work either. Please help.

Thanks,

Roger


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