Re: A problem with RunRev email account "sage.on-rev.com"

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I misworded that. I didn't mean to imply he was engaging in any of those 
activities. Only that anyone doing so using a mail domain or public IP could 
get the domain or IP blacklisted. I had people at a large Church I used to work 
for using p2p to get hi def versions of all the movies and music they wanted, 
AND were SHARING it with others. A cease and desist letter was not sent to us, 
but rather to our ISP telling them that unless the ISP shut US down, they would 
blacklist the ENTIRE ISP! Talk about digital vigilantes. 

Fortunately, I was able to find and eliminate the culprits and prove to the ISP 
and the legal entities involved that I had done so, and they relented. 

Bob S


> On May 31, 2019, at 10:08 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Blacklisting would not be inappropriate if we lived in a world where every 
> domain had a unique IP.  But that's not the world we live in.
> 
> Hundreds of millions of domains are hosted on shared servers, and most do not 
> have a unique IP.
> 
> So it doesn't matter whether or not you personally engage in any of those 
> nefarious activities.
> 
> Under the collective punishment regime of digital vigilantes, accounts you 
> have no control over will be used against you.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> 
> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
>> They may remove the blacklist entries, but unless the original issue that 
>> caused the blacklist entries to occur in the first place are dealt with, it 
>> will recur. Things that can get you blacklisted: Sending spam to many cc'd 
>> addresses
>> spoofing a header
>> a number of people reporting a sender as a spammer
>> various key words or phrases in emails
>> illegal use of peer to peer file sharing apps (distributing commercial films 
>> or music for example)
>> Bob S


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Re: A problem with RunRev email account "sage.on-rev.com"

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Blacklisting would not be inappropriate if we lived in a world where 
every domain had a unique IP.  But that's not the world we live in.


Hundreds of millions of domains are hosted on shared servers, and most 
do not have a unique IP.


So it doesn't matter whether or not you personally engage in any of 
those nefarious activities.


Under the collective punishment regime of digital vigilantes, accounts 
you have no control over will be used against you.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems


Bob Sneidar wrote:

They may remove the blacklist entries, but unless the original issue that caused the blacklist entries to occur in the first place are dealt with, it will recur. Things that can get you blacklisted: 


Sending spam to many cc'd addresses
spoofing a header
a number of people reporting a sender as a spammer
various key words or phrases in emails
illegal use of peer to peer file sharing apps (distributing commercial films or 
music for example)

Bob S



On May 26, 2019, at 13:26 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode  wrote:

Currently there is nothing you can do, if the ip addresses are blocked.  Robin 
could use  the Microsoft Blacklisting Form at
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/getsupport?oaspworkflow=start_1.0.0.0&wfname=capsub&productkey=edfsmsbl3
 

to ask for removal of the ips.




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Re: A problem with RunRev email account "sage.on-rev.com"

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

They may remove the blacklist entries, but unless the original issue that 
caused the blacklist entries to occur in the first place are dealt with, it 
will recur. Things that can get you blacklisted: 

Sending spam to many cc'd addresses
spoofing a header
a number of people reporting a sender as a spammer
various key words or phrases in emails
illegal use of peer to peer file sharing apps (distributing commercial films or 
music for example)

Bob S


> On May 26, 2019, at 13:26 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Currently there is nothing you can do, if the ip addresses are blocked.  
> Robin could use  the Microsoft Blacklisting Form at
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/getsupport?oaspworkflow=start_1.0.0.0&wfname=capsub&productkey=edfsmsbl3
>  
> 
> to ask for removal of the ips.


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RE: A problem with RunRev email account "sage.on-rev.com"

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

This smells like the early internet when SMTP servers were all open. There was 
a black list called ORBS that listed you if you did not comply and lock down 
your SMTP server. They stated that they couldn't be successfully sued and if 
you tried they threatened to leave you on the black list forever. Different but 
the same.

I have no tolerance for spammers/hackers. White collar crime should be 
prosecuted and penalties should be draconian so the rest of us don't caught up 
in the net of scatter-shot lockdowns.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
ambassador--- via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 6:29 PM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: ambassa...@fourthworld.com
Subject: Re: A problem with RunRev email account "sage.on-rev.com"

Robert J. Earp wrote:

> Jim,
> I’ve had this before with other accounts, albeit not run-rev.  It’s 
> always a problem with the server thinking I’m sending spam when 
> eMailing to many addresses.  Even if you get the IP address removed 
> from a blacklist you run the risk of it getting put on again without 
> any notification.  I suggest you use MailChimp, it’s free and works 
> like a charm.

Or get a dedicated IP for your mail server, or become a mail admin and set up 
your own system for handling mail, or

The other solution is to shut down vigilantism.

Collective punishment is recognized by the Universal Declaration of Human 
Rights as flat-out wrong.  Why do we tolerate it in cyberspace with spam 
vigilantes?

I respect the difficulty of fighting spam, but knocking hundreds of legitimate 
accounts offline because one user of a machine is criminal is like shooting up 
a an entire neighborhood of families to get one bank robber.

I've tried contacting some of the vigilante spam fighters to get white listed, 
with varying results. Many respond to such requests with a presumption of 
guilt, making it not only unnecessarily difficult to resolve the issue, but 
just plain rude as well.

IP whitelisting must be made simple and straightforward.  Vigilantes should 
recognize that it's far better to let a spammer slip through the prevention 
system than to risk preventing legitimate people from conducting their business 
through email.

But they don't.

So we need to take away their ropes and their hangin' trees, and turn their 
zeal down a few notches to rejoin a fair and just society.

- rg/4w


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Re: A problem with RunRev email account "sage.on-rev.com"

[ambassador--- via use-livecode]

Robert J. Earp wrote:


Jim,
I’ve had this before with other accounts, albeit not run-rev.  It’s 
always
a problem with the server thinking I’m sending spam when eMailing to 
many
addresses.  Even if you get the IP address removed from a blacklist you 
run
the risk of it getting put on again without any notification.  I 
suggest

you use MailChimp, it’s free and works like a charm.


Or get a dedicated IP for your mail server, or become a mail admin and 
set up your own system for handling mail, or


The other solution is to shut down vigilantism.

Collective punishment is recognized by the Universal Declaration of 
Human Rights as flat-out wrong.  Why do we tolerate it in cyberspace 
with spam vigilantes?


I respect the difficulty of fighting spam, but knocking hundreds of 
legitimate accounts offline because one user of a machine is criminal is 
like shooting up a an entire neighborhood of families to get one bank 
robber.


I've tried contacting some of the vigilante spam fighters to get white 
listed, with varying results. Many respond to such requests with a 
presumption of guilt, making it not only unnecessarily difficult to 
resolve the issue, but just plain rude as well.


IP whitelisting must be made simple and straightforward.  Vigilantes 
should recognize that it's far better to let a spammer slip through the 
prevention system than to risk preventing legitimate people from 
conducting their business through email.


But they don't.

So we need to take away their ropes and their hangin' trees, and turn 
their zeal down a few notches to rejoin a fair and just society.


- rg/4w


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Re: A problem with RunRev email account "sage.on-rev.com"

[Robert J. Earp via use-livecode]

Jim,
I’ve had this before with other accounts, albeit not run-rev.  It’s always a 
problem with the server thinking I’m sending spam when eMailing to many 
addresses.  Even if you get the IP address removed from a blacklist you run the 
risk of it getting put on again without any notification.  I suggest you use 
MailChimp, it’s free and works like a charm.

best, Bob...



> Date: Sun, 26 May 2019 08:24:16 -0700
> From: James Hurley  >
> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
> Subject: A problem with RunRev email account "sage.on-rev.com 
> "
> Message-ID: <35c33644-07f5-48df-9ac4-3809f326c...@sbcglobal.net 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> I have an email account with RunRev: @sage.on-rev.com
> 
> It has worked flawlessly for many years, but for several weeks now all email 
> sent from this account to Microsoft addresses (for example, Hotmail and MSN) 
> have bounced. (All addresses on my list, other than the MS addresses, go 
> through without a problem.)
> 
> I have reported this problem and Robin at RunRev is working on a resolution, 
> but without success. 
> 
> Is there a chance that anyone else on this list has found a workaround?
> 
> Thanks, Jim Hurley
> 
> P.S. I have other email accounts, the above ?@sbcglobal,.com? for example, 
> but only @sage.on-rev.com  allows more than 100 email recipients at a time.
> 
> This is something of an emergency for us. We, i.e. my neighborhood 
> association, is attempting to deal with the wildfire threat here in rural 
> California. So getting the word out to these MS email accounts in our 
> neighborhood association is important.
> 
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Re: A problem with RunRev email account "sage.on-rev.com"

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

Jim,

it could be that the ip address of Sage (50.28.39.1) or maybe a whole range of 
ip addresses is/are blocked by Microsoft´s Email servers, because of a bad 
reputation. This mostly happens when the server was used for sending out Spam. 
This could happen, if the server is a shared systen which is uses by hundreds 
of customers. This could also happen by error.
The exact reason could be seen in the failure e-mail you should have received.

"host mx2.hotmail.com [207.46.8.199] said: 550 SC-001 
(BAY004-MC6F18) Unfortunately, messages from x.x.x.x weren't sent. Please 
contact your Internet service provider since part of their network is on our 
block list. You can also refer your provider to 
mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx 
. (in reply to MAIL FROM 
command)"

Currently there is nothing you can do, if the ip addresses are blocked.  Robin 
could use  the Microsoft Blacklisting Form at
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/getsupport?oaspworkflow=start_1.0.0.0&wfname=capsub&productkey=edfsmsbl3
 

to ask for removal of the ips.

There are other providers, like Hostm, who offer among other features like 
preinstalled LivecodeServer als an optional Dedicated Outgoing Mail IP for 
their Webhosting accounts . This ip then is only for your account and is used 
for your email transmissions.
So there is no risk that Spam activities of other customers will block your 
outgoing emails.

Regards,
Matthias







Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de 
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de 
> Am 26.05.2019 um 17:24 schrieb James Hurley via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> I have an email account with RunRev: @sage.on-rev.com
> 
> It has worked flawlessly for many years, but for several weeks now all email 
> sent from this account to Microsoft addresses (for example, Hotmail and MSN) 
> have bounced. (All addresses on my list, other than the MS addresses, go 
> through without a problem.)
> 
> I have reported this problem and Robin at RunRev is working on a resolution, 
> but without success. 
> 
> Is there a chance that anyone else on this list has found a workaround?
> 
> Thanks, Jim Hurley
> 
> P.S. I have other email accounts, the above “@sbcglobal,.com” for example, 
> but only @sage.on-rev.com  allows more than 100 email recipients at a time.
> 
> This is something of an emergency for us. We, i.e. my neighborhood 
> association, is attempting to deal with the wildfire threat here in rural 
> California. So getting the word out to these MS email accounts in our 
> neighborhood association is important.
> 
> 
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