Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
hehehe. its one of those paradoxical things .. its so badthat its so good. On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 9:39 AM Rick Harrison via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Tom, > > Your comment enticed me to take a look at that PDF. > Someone put a lot of work into it for sure! > > Apparently they wanted a magazine format for it. > Perhaps that’s what they are used to doing for their > old day job? > > My eyes still hurt from trying to look at all of the > information there. Information overload for me. > > Rick > > > On Dec 5, 2019, at 7:54 AM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Wow...I have never ever seen a website like that. The PDF is the > most > > incredible piece of typesetting the world has ever seen. > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
Hi Tom, Your comment enticed me to take a look at that PDF. Someone put a lot of work into it for sure! Apparently they wanted a magazine format for it. Perhaps that’s what they are used to doing for their old day job? My eyes still hurt from trying to look at all of the information there. Information overload for me. Rick > On Dec 5, 2019, at 7:54 AM, Tom Glod via use-livecode > wrote: > > Wow...I have never ever seen a website like that. The PDF is the most > incredible piece of typesetting the world has ever seen. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
LOL ;-) On 05/12/2019, 13:56, "use-livecode on behalf of Tom Glod via use-livecode" wrote: Wow...I have never ever seen a website like that. The PDF is the most incredible piece of typesetting the world has ever seen. On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 7:11 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 12/3/19 3:40 PM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode wrote: > > My comment was meant as a joke by the way not to promote the product!The > brochure was funny to me because of the used graphics. > > Yes, I got the part about it being a joke. And that pdf is unbearably > hard to read. Nonetheless, there are some *very* interesting ideas there. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftw...@gmail.com > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
Wow...I have never ever seen a website like that. The PDF is the most incredible piece of typesetting the world has ever seen. On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 7:11 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 12/3/19 3:40 PM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode wrote: > > My comment was meant as a joke by the way not to promote the product!The > brochure was funny to me because of the used graphics. > > Yes, I got the part about it being a joke. And that pdf is unbearably > hard to read. Nonetheless, there are some *very* interesting ideas there. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftw...@gmail.com > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
On 12/3/19 3:40 PM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode wrote: My comment was meant as a joke by the way not to promote the product!The brochure was funny to me because of the used graphics. Yes, I got the part about it being a joke. And that pdf is unbearably hard to read. Nonetheless, there are some *very* interesting ideas there. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
Rick: > Try writing a serious arcade game with LiveCode. > Sorry but it just isn’t up to the task as it isn’t > fast enough. That contains both true and false elements. True: LC is FAR too slow, and despite some progress lately in partially getting back to where it was, still needs a serious ongoing effort to finish that and then get to where it should be. (Of course such efforts may be hampered by even more fundamental needs such as a sustainable net level of bugs and quality/reliability. Hasty code can be very expensive, and doubly so in the long run.) False: Because indeed you can. It's up to the coder. Games tend to push the limits of hardware and/or software, so developing games is a great way to build skills that many people lack. Not being able to write an arcade game with LiveCode means there is a big opportunity to learn and experience more about game design methods and history. Including amazing games on some very limited platforms. I think every coder should have some experience on a system with limited speed and memory; otherwise people are undisciplined and it's difficult to hone technique. Think optimization x 10, plus cunning choices. What we see in games isn't all just brute strength with first-thought design and code. I've already demo'd LC arcade game on video at least once, on a budget PC, so there's no question. And published games in the past. Too busy keeping up with other work and LC bugs to finish a new game lately, but it's not hard. FPS won't be the strongest point for anything LC, but that's why it's called game DESIGN and not "today it rained; ah yes, and also a game happened." Yes, including arcade. But I agree - LC is too slow, and it impacts what people can do with it. Games are a good example, but actually the least of my concerns in that regard! > I know the system took a big hit with Unicode Not just Unicode. The system took a big hit with 7, period. A lot of code in a short time with a lot of problems. In many areas; speed is only one. Still devoting a large portion of my life to help find, report, and workaround 7-9 bugs and changes, yes including slowdowns, but many other issues and also some new limitations. A solid IDE would help too. Previously donated many hours of my time and invested my sales proceeds back to cover time helping to debug 7 and 8. Client deadlines first, so I still haven't gotten some my own products fully in line yet with all of LC's 7-9 bugs, changes, and limits. LC is a fast-moving target in terms of bugs and breaking changes, if not in terms of FPS! Try that for a real-life arcade game shoot-em-up. :) Anyway, don't let that dampen the pre-Christmas cheer: A) Peace on earth and Goodwill toward men, hopefully. B) Some good LC features and updates in the last few years. C) Some LC speed improvements during 9. Half-way toward where it used to be in 6, although even that was way behind JS for instance. D) Some good bug fixes; just need to realize the reality of bug sustainability vs team coder hours and budget, and therefore embrace higher quality. E) Positivi-tay - Bugs? What bugs? See no evil, speak no evil. J/K of course. F) Yes, you can make games, fast LCS utilities, good animations, and other cool stuff in LCS if you hone skills and practice code discipline and improvement. This is proven fact, not opinion. G) I (and others) help people achieve such things when they have problems. LC users are releasing amazing products. H) There are other great things in the works - can't say more at this time. Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Custom Software Development "Better Methods, Better Results" LiveCode Training and Consulting http://livecodeconsulting.com/ ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
My comment was meant as a joke by the way not to promote the product!The brochure was funny to me because of the used graphics. Best,Erik On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 9:26 PM +0100, "Mark Wieder via use-livecode" wrote: On 12/3/19 6:32 AM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode wrote: > If you want to have a really sexy development with fancy animation stuff, > take a look at the brochure of WinDev. > It's a French based company so I don't have to add any comment ;-) > > https://www.pcsoft-windev-webdev.com/WX24-Features.pdf?201906121510 Thanks. Looks interesting, but appears to be Windows-only. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
Their website is terrible to see what the product actually is and does. But ok after looking for a while i thought wow, if can do all that. And you only need to pay once as far as i can see, although it might be a lot more. It offers Java, iOs, Android, Windows, Mac, PHP, Linux, Win ce, Iot... Going to test a trialversion, it downloads almost 3GB at install, let's see how it works. Op 3-12-2019 om 15:32 schreef Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode: If you want to have a really sexy development with fancy animation stuff, take a look at the brochure of WinDev. It's a French based company so I don't have to add any comment ;-) https://www.pcsoft-windev-webdev.com/WX24-Features.pdf?201906121510 On 03/12/2019, 14:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Richmond via use-livecode" wrote: OK, OK . . . So, if I have a series of images being flipped-through inside a graphic 'frame' and DON'T have any *wait* statements the thing happens so quickly I cannot see the animation at all: so, to get 60 frames a second, presumably, one has to have a *wait 1 tick* statement between each frame change? That is easy to do with frame animations . . . Bit is it re scrolling? On 3.12.19 15:03, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > For Mickey Mouse, he would have been updated 12 times per second, and almost all cartoons you’ve ever watched were animated at 12 frames per second. The film was projected at 24 frames per second, and all normal movies you’ve seen in a cinema were also at 24 frame per second. PAL TV is 25 frames per second, and NTSC is 30 frame per second. So, those frame rates are clearly acceptable. > > But, they are animations and not scrolling. With scrolling, updates of 12 per second are very noticeable, and even 30 frame per second can be seen as not smooth. Open a browser on a mobile device and scroll the page. It’s smoothly updating at 60 frame per second. I think that’s what people are asking for, not animated GIFs. > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
On 12/3/19 6:32 AM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode wrote: If you want to have a really sexy development with fancy animation stuff, take a look at the brochure of WinDev. It's a French based company so I don't have to add any comment ;-) https://www.pcsoft-windev-webdev.com/WX24-Features.pdf?201906121510 Thanks. Looks interesting, but appears to be Windows-only. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
On 12/3/19 1:24 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: But consider other common UI conventions, like a swipe transition. This is one of my top wish-list items for mobile. Visual effects aren't the same, the swipe needs to follow the user's finger. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
I used Compile-it forever. It was faster than the compiled v.2x HC by orders of magnitude. But, and this is hardly a fair test, I get over 8 million passes per second through a repeat loop in LC if I do not tax it overmuch, say, adding 1 to a variable on each pass. The point is, how much more speed can be garnered if a new complier was attached to the engine? Craig -Original Message- From: Rick Harrison via use-livecode To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Rick Harrison Sent: Tue, Dec 3, 2019 2:20 pm Subject: Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode Try writing a serious arcade game with LiveCode. Sorry but it just isn’t up to the task as it isn’t fast enough. Remember Compile-It for Hypercard? Perhaps we need something similar for LiveCode that would run at standalone creation time, or whenever we request it for that extra-speed. I know the system took a big hit with Unicode, so how about the option to turn it off for programs requiring super speed? Just my 2 cents. :-) Enjoy your day! Rick ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
Rick Harrison wrote: > Try writing a serious arcade game with LiveCode. > Sorry but it just isn’t up to the task as it isn’t fast > enough. Agreed, but I don't know what the solution is. Maybe Mark Waddingham can chime in here with guidance. > Remember Compile-It for Hypercard? Perhaps > we need something similar for LiveCode that > would run at standalone creation time, or > whenever we request it for that extra-speed. If you've ever slugged through trying to actually build an external with Compile-It, I think you'll agree it's not the answer here. Moreover, simply having access to any compiler won't do much for the engine's rendering algo. Deep revisions at the engine level would be needed for any significant boost to *rendering* performance. > I know the system took a big hit with Unicode, > so how about the option to turn it off for programs > requiring super speed? Unicode does impact many text operations, but has minimal impact on rendering. The switch to Skia as the rendering engine is likely more relevant, and occurred during a similar time period. But since Skia is so widely used by so many apps, I'd like to believe there's a way LC can use to get results on par with other systems that use it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
Paul Dupuis wrote: > I see "apps" that have fancy animated effects and spin pretty GIFs > while doing some task to let me know that the task is being done > > ... and all I can think is: If they dropped ALL the cute animation > crap and spent the CPU cycles on doing the task I wanted done, it > would get done in HALF the time! With modern multi-core systems, small independent tasks like threaded GIFs would not impair performance of core business logic. Indeed, without even the option of threaded GIF playback, it isn't possible to make a progress indicator that doesn't affect overall performance, in addition to having disturbingly jerky appearance. But consider other common UI conventions, like a swipe transition. Swipes are common in mobile apps, very satisfying on touch devices, do not impair core logic performance - and are nearly impossible to implement in LC without an engine enhancement (or obviating the benefits of the card metaphor by putting your entire UI into groups on one card and hand-crafting your swipe handling). -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
Try writing a serious arcade game with LiveCode. Sorry but it just isn’t up to the task as it isn’t fast enough. Remember Compile-It for Hypercard? Perhaps we need something similar for LiveCode that would run at standalone creation time, or whenever we request it for that extra-speed. I know the system took a big hit with Unicode, so how about the option to turn it off for programs requiring super speed? Just my 2 cents. :-) Enjoy your day! Rick ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
If you want to have a really sexy development with fancy animation stuff, take a look at the brochure of WinDev. It's a French based company so I don't have to add any comment ;-) https://www.pcsoft-windev-webdev.com/WX24-Features.pdf?201906121510 On 03/12/2019, 14:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Richmond via use-livecode" wrote: OK, OK . . . So, if I have a series of images being flipped-through inside a graphic 'frame' and DON'T have any *wait* statements the thing happens so quickly I cannot see the animation at all: so, to get 60 frames a second, presumably, one has to have a *wait 1 tick* statement between each frame change? That is easy to do with frame animations . . . Bit is it re scrolling? On 3.12.19 15:03, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > For Mickey Mouse, he would have been updated 12 times per second, and almost all cartoons you’ve ever watched were animated at 12 frames per second. The film was projected at 24 frames per second, and all normal movies you’ve seen in a cinema were also at 24 frame per second. PAL TV is 25 frames per second, and NTSC is 30 frame per second. So, those frame rates are clearly acceptable. > > But, they are animations and not scrolling. With scrolling, updates of 12 per second are very noticeable, and even 30 frame per second can be seen as not smooth. Open a browser on a mobile device and scroll the page. It’s smoothly updating at 60 frame per second. I think that’s what people are asking for, not animated GIFs. > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
OK, OK . . . So, if I have a series of images being flipped-through inside a graphic 'frame' and DON'T have any *wait* statements the thing happens so quickly I cannot see the animation at all: so, to get 60 frames a second, presumably, one has to have a *wait 1 tick* statement between each frame change? That is easy to do with frame animations . . . Bit is it re scrolling? On 3.12.19 15:03, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: For Mickey Mouse, he would have been updated 12 times per second, and almost all cartoons you’ve ever watched were animated at 12 frames per second. The film was projected at 24 frames per second, and all normal movies you’ve seen in a cinema were also at 24 frame per second. PAL TV is 25 frames per second, and NTSC is 30 frame per second. So, those frame rates are clearly acceptable. But, they are animations and not scrolling. With scrolling, updates of 12 per second are very noticeable, and even 30 frame per second can be seen as not smooth. Open a browser on a mobile device and scroll the page. It’s smoothly updating at 60 frame per second. I think that’s what people are asking for, not animated GIFs. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
For Mickey Mouse, he would have been updated 12 times per second, and almost all cartoons you’ve ever watched were animated at 12 frames per second. The film was projected at 24 frames per second, and all normal movies you’ve seen in a cinema were also at 24 frame per second. PAL TV is 25 frames per second, and NTSC is 30 frame per second. So, those frame rates are clearly acceptable. But, they are animations and not scrolling. With scrolling, updates of 12 per second are very noticeable, and even 30 frame per second can be seen as not smooth. Open a browser on a mobile device and scroll the page. It’s smoothly updating at 60 frame per second. I think that’s what people are asking for, not animated GIFs. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
I really am too old-fashion. I see "apps" that have fancy animated effects and spin pretty GIFs while doing some task to let me know that the task is being done ... and all I can think is: If they dropped ALL the cute animation crap and spent the CPU cycles on doing the task I wanted done, it would get done in HALF the time! I should probably go back to using a command line interface. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
I, frankly, cannot be bothered by animated GIF images. My experiments over the last 5-6 with a series of images used as the *backGroundPattern* of a graphic object has shown that if one animated at 25 images per second (and this is what I might term the "Mickey Mouse rate" as it was probably worked out by Disney and/or his contemporaries) it looks like movement and does not *jerk* unless the images have been badly prepared. That is, of course, only on desktop machines as I have only dipped my toes very tentatively into mobile devices. What is the ultimate difference for the end-user (i.e. the person who is watching an animation) between that sort of animation and what Brahmanathaswami means by Smooth Scrolling? The only real downside of flashing a series of images with a graphic object frame (that I am aware of) is in terms of physical storage (a lot of images stored off-screen) Richmond. On 3.12.19 4:50, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: You are completely right. I just quoted a job...and knowing that the customer is going to ask me "where is the smooth scrolling?". i skipped over livecode entirely and quoted it using flutterknowing I have no explanation or chance to give the customer the experience they expect. Your point exactly. On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:32 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: @ richard I love LiveCode, use it every day, probably till the day I die, if I not meditating, singing or swinging kettle bells, and have invested in every offer presented by Kevin since you "turned me on Metacard" when I used Supercard and was looking for bigger solutions, and even bought into Revolution before it signed the agreement with Scott Raney -- I think that was circa 1990 when you sent that email. And now I have business license "for life" and I have a lot of respect for the team and what they try to do on some many platforms Having said that, I have been ranting on and off the past ten years, about the Achilles Heel which is the "busted ankle" in Livecode. Simply this: Smooth Motion Graphics. "We shouldn't be scripting scrollers," is merely a "symptom" of a larger problem/gap/haitus in vision for the future. Now you and I and plenty of old timers know that, e.g. the "my app" could not be duplicated by some other language or "HTML5" without spending 10 times the $ and time. I've been told that "Oh sure we could do that on "React/Elm/[or any other language]" (SivaSiva app) but... uh, we could not make that Word Puzzle thing you did, and that Module (stack) you made would take five time the money and effort work. But, ours will look so professional!" So why will "The Other Thing" look "So Professional?" Simple: scrolling, easing, bouncing, smooth scrolling, ken burns effects and cool transitions. I am not talking "animation" perse. Just the above. And scrolling is at ground zero of these "effects" . It one thing to know, after 20 years of HTML, web work, PHP, Javascript, that Livecode "will be the best tool for this project in order to bring it to completion in 1/5 the time" It's totally another thing for LC to stand alongside other languages to be tested by newbies who are a) content producers want to develop apps - photoshop, illustration, Sketch expert...-- huge market there, but they have high production values, expectations on the "look/feel" of the first card they make. Much of which could be easily fix by tweaking the IDE. b) a complete newbie e.g 17-year old whose been using a phone for three years, and the app he sees "do cool stuff" but he can't make his LC app "do cool stuff" c) old school programmer who is tired of the horrible world of JS, PHP, C++ and wants to have "fun" building solutions. All three markets have no idea what LC can do. They test drive it, and the Achilles Heel kicks in: nothing appears to "work smoothly" (we can't even run an animated GIF in LC while doing any else on the phone) and they are on to other languages. Kevin said in an interview in California, that he wanted LiveCode to be in the top ten languages... until we fix the Achilles Heel in the "look and feel of what you produce" in Livecode, it will never happen. For every 50 who register for a trial, I really wonder how many actually "sign up", maybe 1-3? They are who see the potential for doing "in house tools/behind the scenes software" that don't really care how it looks... I hope I am wrong...or wish that in 2 years, I will be "wrong" BR We shouldn't be scripting scrollers. If the control we placed on the card scrolls, it should scroll. Doesn't matter if it's Mac or Windows or Linux. Shouldn't matter if it's iOS or Android. Manually typing an interaction overlay is bizarre savagery better left for those with a typing fetish than developers who want to be productive using visual development tools like LiveCode. That this has not been addressed in the product -- even as so many of us have scr
Re: Achilles Heel of Livecode
You are completely right. I just quoted a job...and knowing that the customer is going to ask me "where is the smooth scrolling?". i skipped over livecode entirely and quoted it using flutterknowing I have no explanation or chance to give the customer the experience they expect. Your point exactly. On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 9:32 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > @ richard > > I love LiveCode, use it every day, probably till the day I die, if I not > meditating, singing or swinging kettle bells, and have invested in every > offer presented by Kevin since you "turned me on Metacard" when I used > Supercard and was looking for bigger solutions, and even bought into > Revolution before it signed the agreement with Scott Raney -- I think that > was circa 1990 when you sent that email. And now I have business license > "for life" and I have a lot of respect for the team and what they try to > do on some many platforms > > Having said that, I have been ranting on and off the past ten years, about > the Achilles Heel which is the "busted ankle" in Livecode. Simply this: > > Smooth Motion Graphics. > > "We shouldn't be scripting scrollers," > > is merely a "symptom" of a larger problem/gap/haitus in vision for the > future. > > Now you and I and plenty of old timers know that, e.g. the "my app" could > not be duplicated by some other language or "HTML5" without spending 10 > times the $ and time. I've been told that > > "Oh sure we could do that on "React/Elm/[or any other language]" > (SivaSiva app) but... uh, we could not make that Word Puzzle thing you did, > and that Module (stack) you made would take five time the money and effort > work. But, ours will look so professional!" > > So why will "The Other Thing" look "So Professional?" > > Simple: scrolling, easing, bouncing, smooth scrolling, ken burns effects > and cool transitions. > > I am not talking "animation" perse. Just the above. And scrolling is at > ground zero of these "effects" . It one thing to know, after 20 years of > HTML, web work, PHP, Javascript, that Livecode "will be the best tool for > this project in order to bring it to completion in 1/5 the time" > > It's totally another thing for LC to stand alongside other languages to be > tested by newbies who are > > a) content producers want to develop apps - photoshop, illustration, > Sketch expert...-- huge market there, but they have high production > values, expectations on the "look/feel" of the first card they make. Much > of which could be easily fix by tweaking the IDE. > b) a complete newbie e.g 17-year old whose been using a phone for three > years, and the app he sees "do cool stuff" but he can't make his LC app > "do cool stuff" > c) old school programmer who is tired of the horrible world of JS, PHP, > C++ and wants to have "fun" building solutions. > > All three markets have no idea what LC can do. They test drive it, and the > Achilles Heel kicks in: nothing appears to "work smoothly" (we can't even > run an animated GIF in LC while doing any else on the phone) and they are > on to other languages. > > Kevin said in an interview in California, that he wanted LiveCode to be in > the top ten languages... until we fix the Achilles Heel in the "look and > feel of what you produce" in Livecode, it will never happen. For every 50 > who register for a trial, I really wonder how many actually "sign up", > maybe 1-3? They are who see the potential for doing "in house tools/behind > the scenes software" that don't really care how it looks... > > I hope I am wrong...or wish that in 2 years, I will be "wrong" > > BR > > > > > > We shouldn't be scripting scrollers. > > If the control we placed on the card scrolls, it should scroll. Doesn't > matter if it's Mac or Windows or Linux. Shouldn't matter if it's iOS or > Android. > > Manually typing an interaction overlay is bizarre savagery better left > for those with a typing fetish than developers who want to be productive > using visual development tools like LiveCode. > > That this has not been addressed in the product -- even as so many of us > have scripted libraries to take care of this automatically in script -- > has always been concerning. > > And as we approach the 10th anniversary of iPhone, that this has never > been taken care of, or even put on a road map, the concern has grown. > > Vision, anyone? > > #UserExperience > #EmbraceVisualProgramming > #xTalksRule > #SomeoneHasToSayIt > #WhyIsNoOneSayingIt > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode
Achilles Heel of Livecode
@ richard I love LiveCode, use it every day, probably till the day I die, if I not meditating, singing or swinging kettle bells, and have invested in every offer presented by Kevin since you "turned me on Metacard" when I used Supercard and was looking for bigger solutions, and even bought into Revolution before it signed the agreement with Scott Raney -- I think that was circa 1990 when you sent that email. And now I have business license "for life" and I have a lot of respect for the team and what they try to do on some many platforms Having said that, I have been ranting on and off the past ten years, about the Achilles Heel which is the "busted ankle" in Livecode. Simply this: Smooth Motion Graphics. "We shouldn't be scripting scrollers," is merely a "symptom" of a larger problem/gap/haitus in vision for the future. Now you and I and plenty of old timers know that, e.g. the "my app" could not be duplicated by some other language or "HTML5" without spending 10 times the $ and time. I've been told that "Oh sure we could do that on "React/Elm/[or any other language]" (SivaSiva app) but... uh, we could not make that Word Puzzle thing you did, and that Module (stack) you made would take five time the money and effort work. But, ours will look so professional!" So why will "The Other Thing" look "So Professional?" Simple: scrolling, easing, bouncing, smooth scrolling, ken burns effects and cool transitions. I am not talking "animation" perse. Just the above. And scrolling is at ground zero of these "effects" . It one thing to know, after 20 years of HTML, web work, PHP, Javascript, that Livecode "will be the best tool for this project in order to bring it to completion in 1/5 the time" It's totally another thing for LC to stand alongside other languages to be tested by newbies who are a) content producers want to develop apps - photoshop, illustration, Sketch expert...-- huge market there, but they have high production values, expectations on the "look/feel" of the first card they make. Much of which could be easily fix by tweaking the IDE. b) a complete newbie e.g 17-year old whose been using a phone for three years, and the app he sees "do cool stuff" but he can't make his LC app "do cool stuff" c) old school programmer who is tired of the horrible world of JS, PHP, C++ and wants to have "fun" building solutions. All three markets have no idea what LC can do. They test drive it, and the Achilles Heel kicks in: nothing appears to "work smoothly" (we can't even run an animated GIF in LC while doing any else on the phone) and they are on to other languages. Kevin said in an interview in California, that he wanted LiveCode to be in the top ten languages... until we fix the Achilles Heel in the "look and feel of what you produce" in Livecode, it will never happen. For every 50 who register for a trial, I really wonder how many actually "sign up", maybe 1-3? They are who see the potential for doing "in house tools/behind the scenes software" that don't really care how it looks... I hope I am wrong...or wish that in 2 years, I will be "wrong" BR We shouldn't be scripting scrollers. If the control we placed on the card scrolls, it should scroll. Doesn't matter if it's Mac or Windows or Linux. Shouldn't matter if it's iOS or Android. Manually typing an interaction overlay is bizarre savagery better left for those with a typing fetish than developers who want to be productive using visual development tools like LiveCode. That this has not been addressed in the product -- even as so many of us have scripted libraries to take care of this automatically in script -- has always been concerning. And as we approach the 10th anniversary of iPhone, that this has never been taken care of, or even put on a road map, the concern has grown. Vision, anyone? #UserExperience #EmbraceVisualProgramming #xTalksRule #SomeoneHasToSayIt #WhyIsNoOneSayingIt ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
