Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2017-01-06 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 2:49 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> "A bit like devs are being milked" seems a somewhat extraordinary
> statement. LiveCode is a business, with expenses and a stable of highly
> skilled and valuable developers. Which of them would you like us to fire?


Friends,

Both statements are uncalled for. It is not a matter of milking and not a
matter of firing people, both arguments add nothing to the thread. Since I
started this thread let me further clarify it.

The new TS Net thing is cool and we all love all the work that HQ does and
want to see them all employed. This being said, there were arbitrary
decisions regarding the features of the new TS Net external. Splitting the
features between Indy and Business in a way that makes the life of the LC
indy customers harder.

I would infer that the movement (or upsell) from community users to indy
users is more common than from Indy to Business. I believe that it is
better to convert the larger userbase of community users into indy users
than to convert the smaller base of indy users into business. This is of
course my opinion and how I see it.

Almost all languages under the sun have SFTP libraries available for free.
This is the kind of feature that is taken for granted elsewhere. LC being
smaller requires bounties, crowdfunds and business acumen to keep the boat
floating well. We know that. What I am saying is that this decision on the
features actually makes the TS Net features almost unusable by Indy users.
It is almost the same as not having it.

Instead of hoping through the hops of storing stuff into variables to then
push them into the server thus allocating potentially hundreds of
megabytes, Indy users will simply use a shell command such as "scp source
destination" and not upgrade to business because that solves the problem,
even if in a hackish way.

For example, I just spent the last couple hours coding a library to mount
and work with network shares on both windows and mac because I can't use
sftp at all with my indy license, not when I need to move hundreds of
megabytes around.

It all boils down to a single statement: "SFTP is not an enterprise need,
it is a common user need". I could paste a dozen articles from the web
showing why SSL and secure connections matter, why encryption is needed
everywhere. This is not a matter of opinion, this is well researched facts
from major universities and stakeholders of the Internet. The fact that we
treat secure connections like they were Oracle deployments (which not many
people outside of enterprise needs) makes me think that HQ is shooting
itself on the foot on this one.

Om om
andre




-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

RE: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2017-01-06 Thread Jim MacConnell via use-livecode 
+1
Well said.
... there's no way I can justify the expense other than to tell myself I'm
supporting something worthwhile in about the only way I can.
Jim M.

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 8:10 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Bob Sneidar
Subject: Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

Exactly what I was thinking when I read it. My greatest aprehension in using
Livecode is that one day it will be gone, and I will have to learn to use
C++ or Objective C, which is to say I will have to give up software
development. I'm not really sure how they stay afloat as is, but as I
develop strictly for in house use for my company, and not because they want
me to either, but because I happen to know that what I have created for them
vastly simplifies and streamlines my workflow and that of my techs, all that
to say that I pay for LC development out of pocket. the $700 a year hurts.
But I pay it because I need the features Indy offers, and I also think  that
if I am not going to contribute to the open source project (like I have
anything to contribute) then my paying for the Indy license once a year is
my way of supporting it.

I suppose it is how you choose to look at things. I remember getting really
excited about Filemake Standalones until I discovered I would have to pay a
distribution fee for *every single instance* of a distributed app!!! Oh
yeah, and developing for Filemaker sucks goose eggs. Also I come from a
background of Procedural Foxpro where creating a form meant "saying" text at
different window coordinates, then "getting" whatever the user typed in.
There was no program interaction during a read. No events triggered. Foxpro
was in a coma. And, it took forever to write and troubleshoot even minor
changes, compared to Livecode.

You can write a functional utility in a matter of minutes, debug it in a few
hours, make it pretty inside of a day. Compile and distribute it no charge.
AND they offer a free edition. I'm not sure anyone has any room to complain
here.

Bob S


On Jan 6, 2017, at 04:49 , Heather Laine via use-livecode
<use-livecode@lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

"A bit like devs are being milked" seems a somewhat extraordinary statement.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2017-01-06 Thread Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
I totally agree with you and could not have said  it better.



> Am 06.01.2017 um 17:09 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> >:
> 
> Exactly what I was thinking when I read it. My greatest aprehension in using 
> Livecode is that one day it will be gone, and I will have to learn to use C++ 
> or Objective C, which is to say I will have to give up software development. 
> I'm not really sure how they stay afloat as is, but as I develop strictly for 
> in house use for my company, and not because they want me to either, but 
> because I happen to know that what I have created for them vastly simplifies 
> and streamlines my workflow and that of my techs, all that to say that I pay 
> for LC development out of pocket. the $700 a year hurts. But I pay it because 
> I need the features Indy offers, and I also think  that if I am not going to 
> contribute to the open source project (like I have anything to contribute) 
> then my paying for the Indy license once a year is my way of supporting it.
> 
> I suppose it is how you choose to look at things. I remember getting really 
> excited about Filemake Standalones until I discovered I would have to pay a 
> distribution fee for *every single instance* of a distributed app!!! Oh yeah, 
> and developing for Filemaker sucks goose eggs. Also I come from a background 
> of Procedural Foxpro where creating a form meant "saying" text at different 
> window coordinates, then "getting" whatever the user typed in. There was no 
> program interaction during a read. No events triggered. Foxpro was in a coma. 
> And, it took forever to write and troubleshoot even minor changes, compared 
> to Livecode.
> 
> You can write a functional utility in a matter of minutes, debug it in a few 
> hours, make it pretty inside of a day. Compile and distribute it no charge. 
> AND they offer a free edition. I'm not sure anyone has any room to complain 
> here.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Jan 6, 2017, at 04:49 , Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>   >> wrote:
> 
> "A bit like devs are being milked" seems a somewhat extraordinary statement.
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2017-01-06 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
Exactly what I was thinking when I read it. My greatest aprehension in using 
Livecode is that one day it will be gone, and I will have to learn to use C++ 
or Objective C, which is to say I will have to give up software development. 
I'm not really sure how they stay afloat as is, but as I develop strictly for 
in house use for my company, and not because they want me to either, but 
because I happen to know that what I have created for them vastly simplifies 
and streamlines my workflow and that of my techs, all that to say that I pay 
for LC development out of pocket. the $700 a year hurts. But I pay it because I 
need the features Indy offers, and I also think  that if I am not going to 
contribute to the open source project (like I have anything to contribute) then 
my paying for the Indy license once a year is my way of supporting it.

I suppose it is how you choose to look at things. I remember getting really 
excited about Filemake Standalones until I discovered I would have to pay a 
distribution fee for *every single instance* of a distributed app!!! Oh yeah, 
and developing for Filemaker sucks goose eggs. Also I come from a background of 
Procedural Foxpro where creating a form meant "saying" text at different window 
coordinates, then "getting" whatever the user typed in. There was no program 
interaction during a read. No events triggered. Foxpro was in a coma. And, it 
took forever to write and troubleshoot even minor changes, compared to Livecode.

You can write a functional utility in a matter of minutes, debug it in a few 
hours, make it pretty inside of a day. Compile and distribute it no charge. AND 
they offer a free edition. I'm not sure anyone has any room to complain here.

Bob S


On Jan 6, 2017, at 04:49 , Heather Laine via use-livecode 
> wrote:

"A bit like devs are being milked" seems a somewhat extraordinary statement.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2017-01-06 Thread Keith Martin via use-livecode 

On 6 Jan 2017, at 12:49, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:

"A bit like devs are being milked" seems a somewhat extraordinary 
statement. LiveCode is a business, with expenses and a stable of 
highly skilled and valuable developers.


I meant this in the traditional 'online pushy chatty' manner, not as an 
actual accusation. I apologise fully, I expressed myself badly. Mea 
maxima culpa.


From the point of view of those of us who have seen the product's full 
evolution it has unarguably moved into a very different realm as far as 
charges are concerned. I have a natural and ingrained dislike of ongoing 
costs, in part because I'm an old industry fart and in part because I 
use a *lot* of different software and use the vast majority on an 
occasional basis so I prefer to buy rather than rent in order to keep a 
lid on my outgoings. (The only ongoing 'rent' payment models that I have 
are with Adobe and LiveCode. Both are valuable to me, although not 
really in the financial sense. I am indy in many senses of the word!)


I am still disappointed that HTML5 turned out to be not part of the 
regular set of Indy output options. I may well have misunderstood this 
from the start... it won't be the first time. :-/


k


---

Keith Martin
Senior Lecturer, LCC (University of the Arts London)
Technical Editor, MacUser magazine (1997-2015)
http://PanoramaPhotographer.com
http://thatkeith.com
+44 (0)7909541365

---
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2017-01-06 Thread Heather Laine via use-livecode 
"A bit like devs are being milked" seems a somewhat extraordinary statement. 
LiveCode is a business, with expenses and a stable of highly skilled and 
valuable developers. Which of them would you like us to fire? We need to pay 
for LiveCode's development so that all of the users in the community can 
continue to use it, receive new features and develop their apps. If you want 
features for free, LiveCode Community is Open Source. Here is the link to 
github:

https://github.com/livecode/ 

We welcome all the coding assistance you can give us. The reality is that the 
overwhelming majority of the work is still done by our in-house team, and the 
majority of the work we do goes into all editions including open source.

The new tsNet features are great. They do not take anything away from 
Community, which still has liburl as it always did. They were costly to develop 
and license and will now require maintenance from our team. Some are in Indy 
and some are in Business, where we can receive the appropriate level of 
remuneration for them, allowing us to retain our extremely valuable team and 
bring you the best LiveCode we can.

Warm Regards and Happy New Year!

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 6 Jan 2017, at 10:30, Keith Martin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 30 Dec 2016, at 12:41, Skip Kimpel wrote:
> 
>> +1
>> 
>> LC needs to reconsider breaking up functionality based upon licensing.
> 
> Indeed! I haven't looked in depth at the differences, but I thought it was 
> more (or even entirely) about support, which makes sense for high-level 
> business requirements, plus a turnover threshold, which is about common sense 
> (appropriate recompense for lucrative use). With the open-source Community 
> edition, only allowing open-source standalones is eminently logical. But 
> limiting functionality in the way just revealed feels decidedly unfriendly, a 
> bit like devs are being milked.
> 
> :'(
> 
> k
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> Keith Martin
> Senior Lecturer, LCC (University of the Arts London)
> Technical Editor, MacUser magazine (1997-2015)
> http://PanoramaPhotographer.com
> http://thatkeith.com
> +44 (0)7909541365
> 
> ---
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2017-01-06 Thread Keith Martin via use-livecode 

On 30 Dec 2016, at 12:41, Skip Kimpel wrote:


+1

LC needs to reconsider breaking up functionality based upon licensing.


Indeed! I haven't looked in depth at the differences, but I thought it 
was more (or even entirely) about support, which makes sense for 
high-level business requirements, plus a turnover threshold, which is 
about common sense (appropriate recompense for lucrative use). With the 
open-source Community edition, only allowing open-source standalones is 
eminently logical. But limiting functionality in the way just revealed 
feels decidedly unfriendly, a bit like devs are being milked.


:'(

k


---

Keith Martin
Senior Lecturer, LCC (University of the Arts London)
Technical Editor, MacUser magazine (1997-2015)
http://PanoramaPhotographer.com
http://thatkeith.com
+44 (0)7909541365

---
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2017-01-06 Thread Charles Warwick via use-livecode 

Hi Bill and others,

I appreciate the feedback regarding the feature breakdown between the 
different licenses.


The decision to split the features (and how they were split) across 
Business and Indy was decided on by the LiveCode team.


I expect that some of them may have seen this thread, however I 
recommend contacting them directly if you want to ensure that they hear 
your thoughts.


Regards,

Charles


On 4/01/2017 7:47 AM, William Prothero wrote:

Charles:
It also seems to me like this is a vital feature that could cripple some 
applications. I agree with the other posters that the Indy version will 
probably be purchased by the great majority of those who purchase licenses. It 
“should” be a big market.

Best,
Bill


Skip Kimpel  wrote:

+1

LC needs to reconsider breaking up functionality based upon licensing.

SKIP

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2017-01-03 Thread William Prothero 
Charles:
It also seems to me like this is a vital feature that could cripple some 
applications. I agree with the other posters that the Indy version will 
probably be purchased by the great majority of those who purchase licenses. It 
“should” be a big market. 

Best,
Bill

> Skip Kimpel  wrote:
> 
>+1
> 
>LC needs to reconsider breaking up functionality based upon licensing.
> 
>SKIP
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2016-12-30 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami 
SFTP var content only? 

Wow… Strange strategy… Indy should/could be LC's bread and butter.. a product 
that works may be a better strategy in the long run than providing a crippled 
option. Reserve business only feature for true enterprise features, not for a 
simple options that come with any modern $15.00 app that lets you set sharing 
to your own server (and uploads files by SFTP). There's a "kajillion" web 
developers, including "your little sister" out there whose servers are all 
blocking FTP in the clear… 

BR


Skip Kimpel  wrote:

+1

LC needs to reconsider breaking up functionality based upon licensing.

SKIP

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2016-12-30 Thread Andre Garzia 
Charles,

Thanks a lot for the quick reply! Things are much clearer now. I have some
comments below.

On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 12:13 AM, Charles Warwick <
char...@techstrategies.com.au> wrote:

> 2.  For Indy users, SFTP and SMTP can only be performed to/from a variable
> - not directly using a file.
>
> This means you will also get an error if you use any of the blocking
> functions which directly reference a file when using these protocols.
>
> For tsNet, these functions are:
>
> "tsNetGetFileSync", "tsNetUploadFileSync", "tsNetSmtpFileSync"
>


This above is really unfortunate. We are uploading backups of our large
media assets. We're talking about files here that can weight more than
100mb. We shouldn't need to allocate this amount of space into a variable,
this is not sound. What if we're trying to upload a movie that is 2gb or
3gb? We can't realistically be expected to place such large amount of data
into variables.

This kind of arbitrary limitations of functionally makes it impossible for
us to use the new external in a pleasant way. Inserting huge amounts of
data into variables just to please licensing is not my idea of good memory
usage.

I really hope HQ reconsider the above limitation, it makes for some very
bad practices of memory allocation.

om om
andre

-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2016-12-30 Thread Colin.Kelly 
+1

On 30/12/2016, 11:40, "use-livecode on behalf of Roger Eller" 
 wrote:

I am really disappointed that SFTP (for Indy) is limited to a variable
(RAM) -vs- writing directly to a file.  Moving large files that exceed
system RAM is very common.

~Roger

On Dec 30, 2016 5:13 AM, "Charles Warwick" 
wrote:

> Hi Andre,
>
> I will be adding a fair amount of documentation for tsNet over the coming
> weeks that I hope will better answer a number of the questions that are
> being asked on the list.
>
> In the mean time, I hope that the following two points will explain what
> is happening for you.
>
>
> 1.  For Indy users, SFTP and SMTP can only be performed in "blocking"
> operations.
>
> This means if you call any of the non-blocking variants of the libUrl or
> tsNet commands/functions with these protocols, you will get an error.
>
> For libUrl commands, non-blocking commands are:
>
> "load url", "libUrlDownloadToFile", "libUrlFtpUpload",
> "libUrlFtpUploadFile"
>
> For tsNet commands, non-blocking functions are:
>
> "tsNetGet", "tsNetGetFile", "tsNetUpload", "tsNetUploadFile", "tsNetSmtp",
> "tsNetSmtpFile", "tsNetSendCmd", "tsNetPost", "tsNetHead", "tsNetCustom"
>
>
> 2.  For Indy users, SFTP and SMTP can only be performed to/from a variable
> - not directly using a file.
>
> This means you will also get an error if you use any of the blocking
> functions which directly reference a file when using these protocols.
>
> For tsNet, these functions are:
>
> "tsNetGetFileSync", "tsNetUploadFileSync", "tsNetSmtpFileSync"
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Charles
>
>
> On 28/12/2016 5:31 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> Yes, we found that page as well. The problem is that even though the page
>> lists features available to each license, there is no list of commands 
and
>> functions per license. For example, it says that public key 
authentication
>> is only available to business license holders, so we'd assume that if we
>> call tsNetUploadFileSync passing a username and password as an SFTP URL,
>> should work but it doesn't. Then we'd look into the docs and see that we
>> can pass a settings array with username and password which also doesn't
>> work.
>>
>> When I say "doesn't work", I don't mean it is buggy, I mean it returns an
>> error saying the external is unlicensed. Which will probably make me
>> fallback to using shell commands to scp/sftp/rsync or whatever I need to
>> make file transfers.
>>
>> This "escalation of features" for file transfers based on your license 
for
>> me is cumbersome as I am more prone to use other solutions than stay
>> inside
>> LC but this is a whole different thread.
>>
>> What I think would be useful and not disruptive to HQ business model is
>> more info about this license limitations inside the LC dictionary. When
>> you
>> look at a given entry there, you don't see this info.
>>
>> om om
>> andre
>> PS: It has been a while hasn't it?
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Richard Gaskin <
>> ambassa...@fourthworld.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>>>
>>> We need some help.

 We know that we can do SFTP with TS-Net external

 but

 functions that we try to use from an Indy LC return "unlicensed" even
 when, the documentation make not indication that they should fail
 without the business license.

 What we need is

 Documention on what functions and methods work for SFTP in Indy.

>>> There's probably a more intuitive taxonomic placement for this (though
>>> admittedly I can't decide on one offhand - suggestions?), but I poked
>>> around the livecode.com site and discovered that if I click "Pricing"
>>> then about the middle of the price comparison page is a link labeled
>>> "Compare Networking Fearures", which leads to this page that offers a
>>> breakdown by edition:
>>>
>>> >> networking-layer/>
>>>
>>> --
>>>   Richard Gaskin
>>>   Fourth World Systems
>>>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>>   
>>>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe,

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2016-12-30 Thread Skip Kimpel 
+1

LC needs to reconsider breaking up functionality based upon licensing.

SKIP

> On Dec 30, 2016, at 6:40 AM, Roger Eller  wrote:
> 
> I am really disappointed that SFTP (for Indy) is limited to a variable
> (RAM) -vs- writing directly to a file.  Moving large files that exceed
> system RAM is very common.
> 
> ~Roger
> 
> On Dec 30, 2016 5:13 AM, "Charles Warwick" 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Andre,
>> 
>> I will be adding a fair amount of documentation for tsNet over the coming
>> weeks that I hope will better answer a number of the questions that are
>> being asked on the list.
>> 
>> In the mean time, I hope that the following two points will explain what
>> is happening for you.
>> 
>> 
>> 1.  For Indy users, SFTP and SMTP can only be performed in "blocking"
>> operations.
>> 
>> This means if you call any of the non-blocking variants of the libUrl or
>> tsNet commands/functions with these protocols, you will get an error.
>> 
>> For libUrl commands, non-blocking commands are:
>> 
>> "load url", "libUrlDownloadToFile", "libUrlFtpUpload",
>> "libUrlFtpUploadFile"
>> 
>> For tsNet commands, non-blocking functions are:
>> 
>> "tsNetGet", "tsNetGetFile", "tsNetUpload", "tsNetUploadFile", "tsNetSmtp",
>> "tsNetSmtpFile", "tsNetSendCmd", "tsNetPost", "tsNetHead", "tsNetCustom"
>> 
>> 
>> 2.  For Indy users, SFTP and SMTP can only be performed to/from a variable
>> - not directly using a file.
>> 
>> This means you will also get an error if you use any of the blocking
>> functions which directly reference a file when using these protocols.
>> 
>> For tsNet, these functions are:
>> 
>> "tsNetGetFileSync", "tsNetUploadFileSync", "tsNetSmtpFileSync"
>> 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Charles
>> 
>> 
>>> On 28/12/2016 5:31 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey,
>>> 
>>> Yes, we found that page as well. The problem is that even though the page
>>> lists features available to each license, there is no list of commands and
>>> functions per license. For example, it says that public key authentication
>>> is only available to business license holders, so we'd assume that if we
>>> call tsNetUploadFileSync passing a username and password as an SFTP URL,
>>> should work but it doesn't. Then we'd look into the docs and see that we
>>> can pass a settings array with username and password which also doesn't
>>> work.
>>> 
>>> When I say "doesn't work", I don't mean it is buggy, I mean it returns an
>>> error saying the external is unlicensed. Which will probably make me
>>> fallback to using shell commands to scp/sftp/rsync or whatever I need to
>>> make file transfers.
>>> 
>>> This "escalation of features" for file transfers based on your license for
>>> me is cumbersome as I am more prone to use other solutions than stay
>>> inside
>>> LC but this is a whole different thread.
>>> 
>>> What I think would be useful and not disruptive to HQ business model is
>>> more info about this license limitations inside the LC dictionary. When
>>> you
>>> look at a given entry there, you don't see this info.
>>> 
>>> om om
>>> andre
>>> PS: It has been a while hasn't it?
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Richard Gaskin <
>>> ambassa...@fourthworld.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
 
 We need some help.
> 
> We know that we can do SFTP with TS-Net external
> 
> but
> 
> functions that we try to use from an Indy LC return "unlicensed" even
> when, the documentation make not indication that they should fail
> without the business license.
> 
> What we need is
> 
> Documention on what functions and methods work for SFTP in Indy.
> 
 There's probably a more intuitive taxonomic placement for this (though
 admittedly I can't decide on one offhand - suggestions?), but I poked
 around the livecode.com site and discovered that if I click "Pricing"
 then about the middle of the price comparison page is a link labeled
 "Compare Networking Fearures", which leads to this page that offers a
 breakdown by edition:
 
 
 
 --
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  
  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
 
 
 ___
 use-livecode mailing list
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
 subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2016-12-30 Thread Roger Eller 
I am really disappointed that SFTP (for Indy) is limited to a variable
(RAM) -vs- writing directly to a file.  Moving large files that exceed
system RAM is very common.

~Roger

On Dec 30, 2016 5:13 AM, "Charles Warwick" 
wrote:

> Hi Andre,
>
> I will be adding a fair amount of documentation for tsNet over the coming
> weeks that I hope will better answer a number of the questions that are
> being asked on the list.
>
> In the mean time, I hope that the following two points will explain what
> is happening for you.
>
>
> 1.  For Indy users, SFTP and SMTP can only be performed in "blocking"
> operations.
>
> This means if you call any of the non-blocking variants of the libUrl or
> tsNet commands/functions with these protocols, you will get an error.
>
> For libUrl commands, non-blocking commands are:
>
> "load url", "libUrlDownloadToFile", "libUrlFtpUpload",
> "libUrlFtpUploadFile"
>
> For tsNet commands, non-blocking functions are:
>
> "tsNetGet", "tsNetGetFile", "tsNetUpload", "tsNetUploadFile", "tsNetSmtp",
> "tsNetSmtpFile", "tsNetSendCmd", "tsNetPost", "tsNetHead", "tsNetCustom"
>
>
> 2.  For Indy users, SFTP and SMTP can only be performed to/from a variable
> - not directly using a file.
>
> This means you will also get an error if you use any of the blocking
> functions which directly reference a file when using these protocols.
>
> For tsNet, these functions are:
>
> "tsNetGetFileSync", "tsNetUploadFileSync", "tsNetSmtpFileSync"
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Charles
>
>
> On 28/12/2016 5:31 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> Yes, we found that page as well. The problem is that even though the page
>> lists features available to each license, there is no list of commands and
>> functions per license. For example, it says that public key authentication
>> is only available to business license holders, so we'd assume that if we
>> call tsNetUploadFileSync passing a username and password as an SFTP URL,
>> should work but it doesn't. Then we'd look into the docs and see that we
>> can pass a settings array with username and password which also doesn't
>> work.
>>
>> When I say "doesn't work", I don't mean it is buggy, I mean it returns an
>> error saying the external is unlicensed. Which will probably make me
>> fallback to using shell commands to scp/sftp/rsync or whatever I need to
>> make file transfers.
>>
>> This "escalation of features" for file transfers based on your license for
>> me is cumbersome as I am more prone to use other solutions than stay
>> inside
>> LC but this is a whole different thread.
>>
>> What I think would be useful and not disruptive to HQ business model is
>> more info about this license limitations inside the LC dictionary. When
>> you
>> look at a given entry there, you don't see this info.
>>
>> om om
>> andre
>> PS: It has been a while hasn't it?
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Richard Gaskin <
>> ambassa...@fourthworld.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>>>
>>> We need some help.

 We know that we can do SFTP with TS-Net external

 but

 functions that we try to use from an Indy LC return "unlicensed" even
 when, the documentation make not indication that they should fail
 without the business license.

 What we need is

 Documention on what functions and methods work for SFTP in Indy.

>>> There's probably a more intuitive taxonomic placement for this (though
>>> admittedly I can't decide on one offhand - suggestions?), but I poked
>>> around the livecode.com site and discovered that if I click "Pricing"
>>> then about the middle of the price comparison page is a link labeled
>>> "Compare Networking Fearures", which leads to this page that offers a
>>> breakdown by edition:
>>>
>>> >> networking-layer/>
>>>
>>> --
>>>   Richard Gaskin
>>>   Fourth World Systems
>>>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>>   
>>>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2016-12-30 Thread Charles Warwick 

Hi Andre,

I will be adding a fair amount of documentation for tsNet over the 
coming weeks that I hope will better answer a number of the questions 
that are being asked on the list.


In the mean time, I hope that the following two points will explain what 
is happening for you.



1.  For Indy users, SFTP and SMTP can only be performed in "blocking" 
operations.


This means if you call any of the non-blocking variants of the libUrl or 
tsNet commands/functions with these protocols, you will get an error.


For libUrl commands, non-blocking commands are:

"load url", "libUrlDownloadToFile", "libUrlFtpUpload", "libUrlFtpUploadFile"

For tsNet commands, non-blocking functions are:

"tsNetGet", "tsNetGetFile", "tsNetUpload", "tsNetUploadFile", 
"tsNetSmtp", "tsNetSmtpFile", "tsNetSendCmd", "tsNetPost", "tsNetHead", 
"tsNetCustom"



2.  For Indy users, SFTP and SMTP can only be performed to/from a 
variable - not directly using a file.


This means you will also get an error if you use any of the blocking 
functions which directly reference a file when using these protocols.


For tsNet, these functions are:

"tsNetGetFileSync", "tsNetUploadFileSync", "tsNetSmtpFileSync"


Cheers,

Charles


On 28/12/2016 5:31 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

Hey,

Yes, we found that page as well. The problem is that even though the page
lists features available to each license, there is no list of commands and
functions per license. For example, it says that public key authentication
is only available to business license holders, so we'd assume that if we
call tsNetUploadFileSync passing a username and password as an SFTP URL,
should work but it doesn't. Then we'd look into the docs and see that we
can pass a settings array with username and password which also doesn't
work.

When I say "doesn't work", I don't mean it is buggy, I mean it returns an
error saying the external is unlicensed. Which will probably make me
fallback to using shell commands to scp/sftp/rsync or whatever I need to
make file transfers.

This "escalation of features" for file transfers based on your license for
me is cumbersome as I am more prone to use other solutions than stay inside
LC but this is a whole different thread.

What I think would be useful and not disruptive to HQ business model is
more info about this license limitations inside the LC dictionary. When you
look at a given entry there, you don't see this info.

om om
andre
PS: It has been a while hasn't it?

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Richard Gaskin 
wrote:


Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:


We need some help.

We know that we can do SFTP with TS-Net external

but

functions that we try to use from an Indy LC return "unlicensed" even
when, the documentation make not indication that they should fail
without the business license.

What we need is

Documention on what functions and methods work for SFTP in Indy.

There's probably a more intuitive taxonomic placement for this (though
admittedly I can't decide on one offhand - suggestions?), but I poked
around the livecode.com site and discovered that if I click "Pricing"
then about the middle of the price comparison page is a link labeled
"Compare Networking Fearures", which leads to this page that offers a
breakdown by edition:



--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  
  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode







___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2016-12-27 Thread Andre Garzia 
Hey,

Yes, we found that page as well. The problem is that even though the page
lists features available to each license, there is no list of commands and
functions per license. For example, it says that public key authentication
is only available to business license holders, so we'd assume that if we
call tsNetUploadFileSync passing a username and password as an SFTP URL,
should work but it doesn't. Then we'd look into the docs and see that we
can pass a settings array with username and password which also doesn't
work.

When I say "doesn't work", I don't mean it is buggy, I mean it returns an
error saying the external is unlicensed. Which will probably make me
fallback to using shell commands to scp/sftp/rsync or whatever I need to
make file transfers.

This "escalation of features" for file transfers based on your license for
me is cumbersome as I am more prone to use other solutions than stay inside
LC but this is a whole different thread.

What I think would be useful and not disruptive to HQ business model is
more info about this license limitations inside the LC dictionary. When you
look at a given entry there, you don't see this info.

om om
andre
PS: It has been a while hasn't it?

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Richard Gaskin 
wrote:

> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>
> > We need some help.
> >
> > We know that we can do SFTP with TS-Net external
> >
> > but
> >
> > functions that we try to use from an Indy LC return "unlicensed" even
> > when, the documentation make not indication that they should fail
> > without the business license.
> >
> > What we need is
> >
> > Documention on what functions and methods work for SFTP in Indy.
>
> There's probably a more intuitive taxonomic placement for this (though
> admittedly I can't decide on one offhand - suggestions?), but I poked
> around the livecode.com site and discovered that if I click "Pricing"
> then about the middle of the price comparison page is a link labeled
> "Compare Networking Fearures", which leads to this page that offers a
> breakdown by edition:
>
>  networking-layer/>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2016-12-27 Thread Richard Gaskin 

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

> We need some help.
>
> We know that we can do SFTP with TS-Net external
>
> but
>
> functions that we try to use from an Indy LC return "unlicensed" even
> when, the documentation make not indication that they should fail
> without the business license.
>
> What we need is
>
> Documention on what functions and methods work for SFTP in Indy.

There's probably a more intuitive taxonomic placement for this (though 
admittedly I can't decide on one offhand - suggestions?), but I poked 
around the livecode.com site and discovered that if I click "Pricing" 
then about the middle of the price comparison page is a link labeled 
"Compare Networking Fearures", which leads to this page that offers a 
breakdown by edition:




--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2016-12-27 Thread Skip Kimpel 
I agree but I am also about to launch a product that uses the SFTP 
functionality and am curious about what feature you are getting that message 
for so I don't have any surprises.

SKIP

> On Dec 27, 2016, at 8:58 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami  
> wrote:
> 
> Would rather not piece-meal this: 
> 
> For the sake of the product (to keep new developers from cursing LC) 
> 
> Let's get documentation: simple:
> 
> All commands/methods that will work with Indy and any standalone built with 
> Indy
> 
> All commands/methods that are business license only
> 
> + ideally: sample stack with 1 card script for each of the above.
> 
> BR
> 
> On 12/26/16, 7:14 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Skip Kimpel" 
>  
> wrote:
> 
>What features are you getting "unlicensed" for?
> 
>SKIP
> 
>> On Dec 26, 2016, at 9:03 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami  
>> wrote:
>> We need some help.
>> We know that we can do SFTP with TS-Net external
>> but
>> functions that we try to use from an Indy LC return "unlicensed" even when, 
>> the documentation make not indication that they should fail without the 
>> business license.
>> What we need is
>> Documention on what functions and methods work for SFTP in Indy.
>> and we have a stack with sample code
>>  one card script with all functions that work in Indy
>>  one card script with all functions that work in Business only
>> Svasti Astu, Be Well
>> Brahmanathaswami
>> www.himalayanacademy.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2016-12-27 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami 
Would rather not piece-meal this: 

For the sake of the product (to keep new developers from cursing LC) 

Let's get documentation: simple:

All commands/methods that will work with Indy and any standalone built with Indy

All commands/methods that are business license only

+ ideally: sample stack with 1 card script for each of the above.

BR

On 12/26/16, 7:14 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Skip Kimpel" 
 wrote:

What features are you getting "unlicensed" for?

SKIP

>On Dec 26, 2016, at 9:03 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami  
wrote:
>We need some help.
>We know that we can do SFTP with TS-Net external
>but
>functions that we try to use from an Indy LC return "unlicensed" even 
when, the documentation make not indication that they should fail without the 
business license.
>What we need is
>Documention on what functions and methods work for SFTP in Indy.
>and we have a stack with sample code
>   one card script with all functions that work in Indy
>   one card script with all functions that work in Business only
>Svasti Astu, Be Well
>Brahmanathaswami
>www.himalayanacademy.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

2016-12-26 Thread Skip Kimpel 
What features are you getting "unlicensed" for?

SKIP

> On Dec 26, 2016, at 9:03 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami  
> wrote:
> 
> We need some help.
> 
> We know that we can do SFTP with TS-Net external
> 
> but
> 
> functions that we try to use from an Indy LC return "unlicensed" even when, 
> the documentation make not indication that they should fail without the 
> business license.
> 
> What we need is
> 
> Documention on what functions and methods work for SFTP in Indy.
> 
> and we have a stack with sample code
>   one card script with all functions that work in Indy
>   one card script with all functions that work in Business only
> 
> 
> Svasti Astu, Be Well
> Brahmanathaswami
> www.himalayanacademy.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode