Re: OT Re: Referencing Livecode

[Martin Koob via use-livecode]

Hi.

These are great examples of use cases for LiveCode and it is great how you 
explain the app design. It especially cool that the apps are used for citizen 
science.  It complements LiveCode's “anyone can code” tag line with the “any 
one can do science" ethic of citizen science.

Thanks Alan.

Martin Koob 

> On Jun 21, 2022, at 6:42 AM, David V Glasgow via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> That is really helpful Alan.  A pair of fine papers!  
> 
> I visited Australia & NZ a few years back and started using iNaturalist and 
> then the Seek  app, so I’m now an 
> enthusiastic CS observation reporter.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David G
> 
>> On 21 Jun 2022, at 12:46 am, Alan Stenhouse  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David
>> 
>> In a couple of my publications, I described developing apps with Livecode 
>> and referred to www.livecode.org and www.livecode.com, but didn't include 
>> anything in the references as there was nothing (AFAICS at that time) that 
>> would satisfy scientific publication standards.
>> 
>> See: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989420309173
>> and
>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989421001761
>> 
>> HTH
>> 
>> cheers
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>>> On 18 Jun 2022, at 1:30 am, David V Glasgow wrote:
>>> 
 On 16 Jun 2022, at 9:08 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 Is there a reason not to use the LC site URL, either alone or in addition 
 to the Wikipedia one?
>>> 
>>> The https://livecode.com landing page is rather sparse, and focussed on 
>>> drawing customers in rather than conveying anything about text processing, 
>>> or obvious links to information on text processing.  No criticism of that 
>>> at all.  It?s a commercial site.  
>>> 
>>> Wiki page has the disadvantage of a banner warning about link rot, but the 
>>> advantage of lots of information presented in a more academic and neutral 
>>> style.
>>> 
>>> 
 
 Re: the errors, they look like examples of functions that would return 
 "false" but I haven't seen them in context.
 --
>>> 
>>> They do, don?t they.  From memory, that wasn?t the context though.  
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> David G
>> 
> 
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OT Re: Referencing Livecode

[David V Glasgow via use-livecode]

That is really helpful Alan.  A pair of fine papers!  

I visited Australia & NZ a few years back and started using iNaturalist and 
then the Seek  app, so I’m now an 
enthusiastic CS observation reporter.

Cheers,

David G

> On 21 Jun 2022, at 12:46 am, Alan Stenhouse  wrote:
> 
> Hi David
> 
> In a couple of my publications, I described developing apps with Livecode and 
> referred to www.livecode.org and www.livecode.com, but didn't include 
> anything in the references as there was nothing (AFAICS at that time) that 
> would satisfy scientific publication standards.
> 
> See: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989420309173
> and
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989421001761
> 
> HTH
> 
> cheers
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
>> On 18 Jun 2022, at 1:30 am, David V Glasgow wrote:
>> 
>>> On 16 Jun 2022, at 9:08 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is there a reason not to use the LC site URL, either alone or in addition 
>>> to the Wikipedia one?
>> 
>> The https://livecode.com landing page is rather sparse, and focussed on 
>> drawing customers in rather than conveying anything about text processing, 
>> or obvious links to information on text processing.  No criticism of that at 
>> all.  It?s a commercial site.  
>> 
>> Wiki page has the disadvantage of a banner warning about link rot, but the 
>> advantage of lots of information presented in a more academic and neutral 
>> style.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Re: the errors, they look like examples of functions that would return 
>>> "false" but I haven't seen them in context.
>>> --
>> 
>> They do, don?t they.  From memory, that wasn?t the context though.  
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> David G
> 

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Re: Referencing Livecode

[Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode]

Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode wrote

> In a couple of my publications, I described developing apps with Livecode and 
> referred to www.livecode.org and www.livecode.com, but didn't include 
> anything 
> in the references as there was nothing (AFAICS at that time) that would 
> satisfy 
> scientific publication standards.
> See: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989420309173
> and
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989421001761

Alan, that is really cool. Congratulations.

Kind regards
Bernd
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Re: Referencing Livecode

[Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode]

Hi David

In a couple of my publications, I described developing apps with Livecode and 
referred to www.livecode.org and www.livecode.com, but didn't include anything 
in the references as there was nothing (AFAICS at that time) that would satisfy 
scientific publication standards.

See: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989420309173
and
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989421001761

HTH

cheers

Alan


> On 18 Jun 2022, at 1:30 am, David V Glasgow wrote:
> 
>> On 16 Jun 2022, at 9:08 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Is there a reason not to use the LC site URL, either alone or in addition to 
>> the Wikipedia one?
> 
> The https://livecode.com landing page is rather sparse, and focussed on 
> drawing customers in rather than conveying anything about text processing, or 
> obvious links to information on text processing.  No criticism of that at 
> all.  It?s a commercial site.  
> 
> Wiki page has the disadvantage of a banner warning about link rot, but the 
> advantage of lots of information presented in a more academic and neutral 
> style.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Re: the errors, they look like examples of functions that would return 
>> "false" but I haven't seen them in context.
>> --
> 
> They do, don?t they.  From memory, that wasn?t the context though.  
> 
> Cheers
> 
> David G


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Re: Referencing Livecode

[David V Glasgow via use-livecode]

> On 17 Jun 2022, at 6:55 pm, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Here is a link to that conference paper where you can download it.
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269337987_Using_Cognitive_Load_Theory_to_select_an_Environment_for_Teaching_Mobile_Apps_Development
>  
> 
> 
> Perhaps this was published in a journal in 2016 or publication in the 2015 
> conference proceedings is what they are referring to.

That’s an interesting read!  I might completely drop the footnote and just cite 
this.  If I can find out exactly what it is….


Cheers

David G
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Re: Referencing Livecode

[Martin Koob via use-livecode]

What about this link from the LiveCode.com site?

https://livecode.com/core-benefits-of-livecode/

 It summarizes what LiveCode is and gives a comparison of LiveCode script to 
code in JavaScript, PHP and Java.

It even mentions an academic article: 

"A 2016 peer reviewed study conducted at Southern Cross University Australia 
and University of Newcastle”.

Unfortunately it does not include a reference to the study.

I looked around and found a conference paper in 2015 that probably what they 
are referring to.

Using Cognitive Load Theory to select an Environment for Teaching Mobile Apps 
Development
January 2015
Conference: Australasian Computing Education Conference 2015 (ACE2015)
At: Sydney, Australia
Volume: 160.

Here is a link to that conference paper where you can download it.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269337987_Using_Cognitive_Load_Theory_to_select_an_Environment_for_Teaching_Mobile_Apps_Development

Perhaps this was published in a journal in 2016 or publication in the 2015 
conference proceedings is what they are referring to.

Martin


> On Jun 17, 2022, at 1:26 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> As I, or anyone else could write on Wikipedia about Hamlet being
> Shakespeare's coded love notes to a camel he met in Oxford, I really wonder
> why anyone, 'academic' or not, would stick their neck under that
> guillotine's fairly jittery blade escapes me completely.
> 
> I often look up things on Wikipedia, THEN check them elsewhere.
> 
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2022, 19:49 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> The same rules apply to US schools. It may be similar to doing a critique
>> of Hamlet after reading only the Cliff Notes summary. No actual research
>> or
>> thought required.
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On June 17, 2022 11:11:14 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> I wonder why that is? While you may find inaccurate information on
>>> Wikipedia, the vastly overwhelming information there is absolutely
>>> accurate. But isn't that true of EVERY source? In my life experience I
>> have
>>> found that settled science is very unsettled indeed. Salt causes high
>> blood
>>> pressure. Sugar causes diabetes. Red meat causes cancer. Milk is bad.
>> Eggs
>>> are bad. Coffee is bad. Mercury is a molten ball. Life needs sunlight to
>>> live. A nuclear blast will render an area unlivable for 10,000 years. I
>>> could go on and on.
>>> 
>>> Mankind is constantly revising "settled" science, and well we should,
>> but
>>> what I object to is being told that what academia is now telling us is
>> the
>>> new absolute, and I am expected to just accept that.
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 17, 2022, at 01:57 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode
  wrote:
 
 From what I know (my wife is a senior academic at a university)
>> references
 to Wikipedia pages are academic suicide, fail, go straight to jail, do
>> not
 pass GO, do not collect 200 smackers, and you get the picture.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Referencing Livecode

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

That’s absurd. Everyone knows it was a Sherland pony. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 17, 2022, at 10:28, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> As I, or anyone else could write on Wikipedia about Hamlet being
> Shakespeare's coded love notes to a camel he met in Oxford, I really wonder
> why anyone, 'academic' or not, would stick their neck under that
> guillotine's fairly jittery blade escapes me completely.
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Re: Referencing Livecode

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I think no matter what you go to, inevitably you are looking for what other 
people have said in critiquing hamlet or anything else. We call some people 
experts because other people called experts certified them as such. It can’t be 
any other way. But I often wonder who the first expert in any field was, and 
who certified them. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 17, 2022, at 09:49, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> The same rules apply to US schools. It may be similar to doing a critique of 
> Hamlet after reading only the Cliff Notes summary. No actual research or 
> thought required.
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Re: Referencing Livecode

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

As I, or anyone else could write on Wikipedia about Hamlet being
Shakespeare's coded love notes to a camel he met in Oxford, I really wonder
why anyone, 'academic' or not, would stick their neck under that
guillotine's fairly jittery blade escapes me completely.

I often look up things on Wikipedia, THEN check them elsewhere.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2022, 19:49 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The same rules apply to US schools. It may be similar to doing a critique
> of Hamlet after reading only the Cliff Notes summary. No actual research
> or
> thought required.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On June 17, 2022 11:11:14 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> > I wonder why that is? While you may find inaccurate information on
> > Wikipedia, the vastly overwhelming information there is absolutely
> > accurate. But isn't that true of EVERY source? In my life experience I
> have
> > found that settled science is very unsettled indeed. Salt causes high
> blood
> > pressure. Sugar causes diabetes. Red meat causes cancer. Milk is bad.
> Eggs
> > are bad. Coffee is bad. Mercury is a molten ball. Life needs sunlight to
> > live. A nuclear blast will render an area unlivable for 10,000 years. I
> > could go on and on.
> >
> > Mankind is constantly revising "settled" science, and well we should,
> but
> > what I object to is being told that what academia is now telling us is
> the
> > new absolute, and I am expected to just accept that.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> >> On Jun 17, 2022, at 01:57 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> From what I know (my wife is a senior academic at a university)
> references
> >> to Wikipedia pages are academic suicide, fail, go straight to jail, do
> not
> >> pass GO, do not collect 200 smackers, and you get the picture.
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
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Re: Referencing Livecode

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

The same rules apply to US schools. It may be similar to doing a critique 
of Hamlet after reading only the Cliff Notes summary. No actual research or 
thought required.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On June 17, 2022 11:11:14 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 wrote:


I wonder why that is? While you may find inaccurate information on 
Wikipedia, the vastly overwhelming information there is absolutely 
accurate. But isn't that true of EVERY source? In my life experience I have 
found that settled science is very unsettled indeed. Salt causes high blood 
pressure. Sugar causes diabetes. Red meat causes cancer. Milk is bad. Eggs 
are bad. Coffee is bad. Mercury is a molten ball. Life needs sunlight to 
live. A nuclear blast will render an area unlivable for 10,000 years. I 
could go on and on.


Mankind is constantly revising "settled" science, and well we should, but 
what I object to is being told that what academia is now telling us is the 
new absolute, and I am expected to just accept that.


Bob S


On Jun 17, 2022, at 01:57 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
 wrote:


From what I know (my wife is a senior academic at a university) references
to Wikipedia pages are academic suicide, fail, go straight to jail, do not
pass GO, do not collect 200 smackers, and you get the picture.



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Re: Referencing Livecode

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I wonder why that is? While you may find inaccurate information on Wikipedia, 
the vastly overwhelming information there is absolutely accurate. But isn't 
that true of EVERY source? In my life experience I have found that settled 
science is very unsettled indeed. Salt causes high blood pressure. Sugar causes 
diabetes. Red meat causes cancer. Milk is bad. Eggs are bad. Coffee is bad. 
Mercury is a molten ball. Life needs sunlight to live. A nuclear blast will 
render an area unlivable for 10,000 years. I could go on and on. 

Mankind is constantly revising "settled" science, and well we should, but what 
I object to is being told that what academia is now telling us is the new 
absolute, and I am expected to just accept that. 

Bob S


> On Jun 17, 2022, at 01:57 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> From what I know (my wife is a senior academic at a university) references
> to Wikipedia pages are academic suicide, fail, go straight to jail, do not
> pass GO, do not collect 200 smackers, and you get the picture.


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Re: Referencing Livecode

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

Maybe a direct link here would be better:

https://livecode.com/resources/



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 17, 2022, at 6:39 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think in this instance, probably asking support would be the best bet. 
> 
>> On 16 Jun 2022, at 2:31 pm, David V Glasgow via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Folks,
>> 
>> I am writing a paper for publication (I hope) describing analysis of 
>> internet predator messages achieved using Livecode.
>> 
>> I want to reference LC but I am not sure if there is a standard form or URL 
>> for doing this.  If not I am inclined to use 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveCode 
>> 
>> Any alternative suggestions?
>> 
>> David Glasgow
>> 
>> PS Also, while trying to find a suitable URL I came across the ‘Cheat 
>> Sheets’ page and PDFs, and stumbled on a couple of errors in the just LC 
>> one… not sure who to alert.
>> 
>> // String
>> 
>> "foo" & "bar" is "foobar" "foo" && "bar" is "foo bar" "str" begins with "st"
>> "str" ends with "g"
>> 
>> // Chunks
>> 
>> char 5 of "str" is "n"
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> 
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Re: Referencing Livecode

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

I think in this instance, probably asking support would be the best bet. 

> On 16 Jun 2022, at 2:31 pm, David V Glasgow via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I am writing a paper for publication (I hope) describing analysis of internet 
> predator messages achieved using Livecode.
> 
> I want to reference LC but I am not sure if there is a standard form or URL 
> for doing this.  If not I am inclined to use 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveCode 
> 
> Any alternative suggestions?
> 
> David Glasgow
> 
> PS Also, while trying to find a suitable URL I came across the ‘Cheat Sheets’ 
> page and PDFs, and stumbled on a couple of errors in the just LC one… not 
> sure who to alert.
> 
> // String
> 
> "foo" & "bar" is "foobar" "foo" && "bar" is "foo bar" "str" begins with "st"
> "str" ends with "g"
> 
> // Chunks
> 
> char 5 of "str" is "n"
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Re: Referencing Livecode

[David V Glasgow via use-livecode]

Of course that is completely true for academic content!  This ain’t that.

In the paper I simply state that all text searching, manipulation and 
aggregation was achieved using Livecode scripts, with a footnote to a brief 
description and link to … 

Go on.  Ask your wife.  That is how it’s done. (unless you used R, or Python, 
which are celebrities needing no explanation or external link)



Best Wishes,

David Glasgow


> On 17 Jun 2022, at 9:57 am, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> From what I know (my wife is a senior academic at a university) references
> to Wikipedia pages are academic suicide, fail, go straight to jail, do not
> pass GO, do not collect 200 smackers, and you get the picture.
> 
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2022, 11:47 David V Glasgow via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> On 16 Jun 2022, at 9:08 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is there a reason not to use the LC site URL, either alone or in
>> addition to the Wikipedia one?
>> 
>> The https://livecode.com landing page is rather sparse, and focussed on
>> drawing customers in rather than conveying anything about text processing,
>> or obvious links to information on text processing.  No criticism of that
>> at all.  It’s a commercial site.
>> 
>> Wiki page has the disadvantage of a banner warning about link rot, but the
>> advantage of lots of information presented in a more academic and neutral
>> style.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Re: the errors, they look like examples of functions that would return
>> "false" but I haven't seen them in context.
>>> --
>> 
>> They do, don’t they.  From memory, that wasn’t the context though.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> David G
>> ___
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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Re: Referencing Livecode

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

From what I know (my wife is a senior academic at a university) references
to Wikipedia pages are academic suicide, fail, go straight to jail, do not
pass GO, do not collect 200 smackers, and you get the picture.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2022, 11:47 David V Glasgow via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> > On 16 Jun 2022, at 9:08 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Is there a reason not to use the LC site URL, either alone or in
> addition to the Wikipedia one?
>
> The https://livecode.com landing page is rather sparse, and focussed on
> drawing customers in rather than conveying anything about text processing,
> or obvious links to information on text processing.  No criticism of that
> at all.  It’s a commercial site.
>
> Wiki page has the disadvantage of a banner warning about link rot, but the
> advantage of lots of information presented in a more academic and neutral
> style.
>
>
> >
> > Re: the errors, they look like examples of functions that would return
> "false" but I haven't seen them in context.
> > --
>
> They do, don’t they.  From memory, that wasn’t the context though.
>
> Cheers
>
> David G
> ___
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Re: Referencing Livecode

[David V Glasgow via use-livecode]

> On 16 Jun 2022, at 9:08 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is there a reason not to use the LC site URL, either alone or in addition to 
> the Wikipedia one?

The https://livecode.com landing page is rather sparse, and focussed on drawing 
customers in rather than conveying anything about text processing, or obvious 
links to information on text processing.  No criticism of that at all.  It’s a 
commercial site.  

Wiki page has the disadvantage of a banner warning about link rot, but the 
advantage of lots of information presented in a more academic and neutral style.


> 
> Re: the errors, they look like examples of functions that would return 
> "false" but I haven't seen them in context.
> --

They do, don’t they.  From memory, that wasn’t the context though.  

Cheers

David G
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Re: Referencing Livecode

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Is there a reason not to use the LC site URL, either alone or in addition 
to the Wikipedia one?


Re: the errors, they look like examples of functions that would return 
"false" but I haven't seen them in context.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On June 16, 2022 8:33:45 AM David V Glasgow via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Hi Folks,

I am writing a paper for publication (I hope) describing analysis of 
internet predator messages achieved using Livecode.


I want to reference LC but I am not sure if there is a standard form or URL 
for doing this.  If not I am inclined to use 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveCode


Any alternative suggestions?

David Glasgow

PS Also, while trying to find a suitable URL I came across the ‘Cheat 
Sheets’ page and PDFs, and stumbled on a couple of errors in the just LC 
one… not sure who to alert.


// String

"foo" & "bar" is "foobar" "foo" && "bar" is "foo bar" "str" begins with "st"
"str" ends with "g"

// Chunks

char 5 of "str" is "n"
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Referencing Livecode

[David V Glasgow via use-livecode]

Hi Folks,

I am writing a paper for publication (I hope) describing analysis of internet 
predator messages achieved using Livecode.

I want to reference LC but I am not sure if there is a standard form or URL for 
doing this.  If not I am inclined to use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveCode 

Any alternative suggestions?

David Glasgow

PS Also, while trying to find a suitable URL I came across the ‘Cheat Sheets’ 
page and PDFs, and stumbled on a couple of errors in the just LC one… not sure 
who to alert.

// String

"foo" & "bar" is "foobar" "foo" && "bar" is "foo bar" "str" begins with "st"
"str" ends with "g"

// Chunks

char 5 of "str" is "n"
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