Re: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
On 10/4/2023 2:57 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: On 2023-09-27 15:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based applications. However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones) It is true that web fonts are a 'browser' thing - however, you can still download the underlying TTF files from the web font service and include them in native standalones if you want to use the same fonts across web and native apps (obviously, you need to check the license the fonts are served under - but that's true with any non-system fonts you might include at the moment). In the future we could look at making font inclusion easier in standalones cross-platform (i.e. allow specifying fonts in the s/b at a higher-level and then it doing the right thing) - however, there are some engine improvements to font selection across the different platforms we need to do first (in particularly, 'fixing' the font enumeration properties and allowing specification of different weights and stretches via the textStyle properties!). Warmest Regards, Mark. Thank you again Mark. I did not know that "Web" font, like most (All?) Google fonts could be downloaded as TTF files (I just downloaded Google's Roboto family - a ZIP with Roboto in various styles as ttf files) and use them in Desktop builds This is good to know. I use Google Fonts on a number of web sites. I never thought to even look into their use as a downloadable font! ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
On 2023-09-27 15:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based applications. However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones) It is true that web fonts are a 'browser' thing - however, you can still download the underlying TTF files from the web font service and include them in native standalones if you want to use the same fonts across web and native apps (obviously, you need to check the license the fonts are served under - but that's true with any non-system fonts you might include at the moment). In the future we could look at making font inclusion easier in standalones cross-platform (i.e. allow specifying fonts in the s/b at a higher-level and then it doing the right thing) - however, there are some engine improvements to font selection across the different platforms we need to do first (in particularly, 'fixing' the font enumeration properties and allowing specification of different weights and stretches via the textStyle properties!). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
Paul Dupuis wrote: > So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE > multi-platform apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, > Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, Web) > > (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the > SAME (as much as possible)? > > OR > > (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as > much as possible)? The universe of software vast, and with games and other entertainment software, and educational other edge cases, there are solid arguments for a wide range of design priorities. But when it comes to software for enhancing organizational productivity, it may be useful to step back from our app and look at the context of use. An app is one part of a multi-step workflow. The user brings things into our app space, does stuff with it there, and takes things produced there for use elsewhere. Word processors take in ideas and notes, and output print and web documents. Illustration tools take in visions and sketches and output diagrams and pictures. QDA software takes in interviews and other source materials and outputs reports and analysis summaries. With this in mind, a more user-centric question could be: Which number is larger: (A) Number of hours a given user will use one app across multiple operating systems. (B) Number of hours a given user will use multiple apps on a single operating system. OS vendors have expended significant resources documenting the products of their research into user interface guidelines. And the LiveCode team has undertaken significant effort in the v9 series to make delivery of OS-HIG-savvy apps easier than using just about anything else. I don't believe all of those resources were a waste of time. Beyond the simple comparative exercise above, I arrived at my appreciation for LC's xplat savvy following an email exchange I had a few years ago with Bruce Tognazzini on one corner of this subject: dialog button placement. As you know, Mac dialogs put the default button at bottom-right, and Win puts the default at bottom-left. I asked him whether I should use button placement consistent with my app or consistent with OS convention. He described the research behind Apple's choice, and (tho we can expect a certain bias since he directed that research), he presented a strong cognitive argument favoring Apple's approach. But on the question of consistency with user expectations borne of immersion in an OS, even where the OS convention is arguably inferior, he was equally clear: Consistency is far more important. Otherwise, users have to develop a very muddled rule that includes, "except sometimes." > And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend > of what platforms you are deploying for? I'd be surprised if it doesn't. Look at LC itself, made in a mostly-Mac office and more conformant with Mac conventions than with Win or Linux. If you don't spend most of your time on Windows, you won't have developed the same expectations as someone who uses it exclusively. But consider this: how many times have we seen a Windows app ported to Mac, and it's obviously a Windows port and it just doesn't feel right? That's how Windows users see Mac ports that play fast and loose with Windows UI conventions. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
Hi Paul, In the past, I aimed to align my application UI closely with the host OS, believing that a consistent UI ensures broad accessibility. However, over time, I've come to see that while UI continuity is beneficial, it isn't the ultimate solution. This realization hit home when I managed a team for a large enterprise client. We had programs that mimicked the host OS UI while others sported a completely unique UI. To my surprise, the consistency of the UI mattered little to my team—most only used technology to fulfill their core tasks. The outdated screen snapshots and hand-annotations in the department's process documentation underscored this point. The design nuances, like font choices, weren't as problematic as a complete UI overhaul. An entire UI revamp meant new documentation and snapshots, consuming a significant chunk of my time and increasing my managerial stress. While one could argue these issues stem from a lack of training or poor work environment, the reality is such teams exist, and they will be your users and sources of feedback. Now, my focus is on ensuring the UI fits the program's purpose rather than matching the host OS. Continuity matters, but it isn't paramount. I tread cautiously with UI changes, avoiding unnecessary complexity. Gathering feedback early and consistently is key. If considering major UI shifts, I seek feedback upfront. Considering the topic, I highly recommend Bret Victor's "Inventing on Principle" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII) I believe LiveCode resonates with Bret's ideas, and I've been integrating his concepts into my work. Well worth the engaging 54 minute presentation. Hope this provides some insight, Derek Bump On 9/27/23 09:49, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as much as possible)? OR (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as possible)? And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of what platforms you are deploying for? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
A. I develop an app for WIN and MAC. I do want them to look the same on both, so much so that I created my own tab object which uses the tab widget but also transparent buttons in front of each tab because I want drag drop functionality in the tabs, and widgets do not listen for those messages. I also have a set of fonts I use so that I can maintain some kind of consistency between platforms, although in the process I discovered like many others that the same font renders differently across platforms. That sucks royally, but I understand it’s not something Livecode can do anything about without kludging. Bob S > On Sep 27, 2023, at 7:49 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: > > I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based applications. > > However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the issue > of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in desktop > standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones) > > So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE multi-platform > apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, > Web) > > (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as much as > possible)? > > OR > > (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as > possible)? > > And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of what > platforms you are deploying for? > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Livecode 10dp6 and web fonts
I get the value of web font support in LC10dp6 for WEB based applications. However, if you making a multi-platform application, you still have the issue of UI consistency across platforms as web fonts can't be used in desktop standalones (or, I assume, phone standalones) So this is sort of an informal poll among Livecoders who MAKE multi-platform apps (defined as 2 or more platforms of (macOS, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, Web) (A) Do you try to make your interfaces across platforms the SAME (as much as possible)? OR (B) Do you TAILOR each interface for the specific platform (as much as possible)? And optionally, an opened ended question: Does your answer depend of what platforms you are deploying for? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Web fonts
> Peter B. wrote: > Crazy question, but is it possible to use a web font within a > internet-connected LiveCode application? Of course in a browser widget, but not for use in other LC objects. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Web fonts
Web fonts are usually .woff and LiveCode can’t use that internally, AFAIK. But if you use the browser widget they do work! You can of course download the font in .ttf format and use it that way but then make sure that the licence allow you to do that. Håkan Liljegren On 17 May 2018, 00:34 +0200, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote: > I've never tried it ...but the easy way to test is to > > "set the htmltext of field "Text" to html_text" .. if your html has inline > font definition chances are it should work. let us know. > > On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 6:22 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Crazy question, but is it possible to use a web font within a > > internet-connected LiveCode application? > > > > Peter Bogdanoff > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Web fonts
I've never tried it ...but the easy way to test is to "set the htmltext of field "Text" to html_text" .. if your html has inline font definition chances are it should work. let us know. On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 6:22 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Crazy question, but is it possible to use a web font within a > internet-connected LiveCode application? > > Peter Bogdanoff > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Web fonts
Crazy question, but is it possible to use a web font within a internet-connected LiveCode application? Peter Bogdanoff ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
