Re: Need help with a project

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Thanks, Lagi, for your suggestions.

In my case the program will be used in higher ed classrooms by students sitting 
side by side, often sharing the software keys. Also we are breaking into the 
Chinese education market with potentially tens of thousands, or more customers, 
where we have little control over who they are (we are working with a local 
distributor), and zero direct contact with them. An easy-going protection 
system is not appropriate, nor is something that I have the option of choosing. 

The SoftwareShield system is quite robust with serial key management and 
fingerprinting, and it seems to meet our needs. I just have to find someone on 
the LC list or elsewhere who can help me implement it. LC, the company, asks 
for $1000/day, which we might pay if they could do the job in a timely manner, 
but they are too busy now.

I believe the job is not very difficult, just JavaScript, and possibly some LC 
Builder, both of which are beyond me right now.

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive


> On Jun 18, 2018, at 3:31 AM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> HI Peter,
> 
> The fact that it is a subscription system is the best protection you have.
> Use the simplest protection that will tell you if the system has been
> "pirated" - simple encryption of the company/institution address/details
> for instance. Don't allow them to change the address/telephone number etc
> in the program - so they have to "patch" the exe. When you notice this has
> happened (5 lines of code) set a timer.
> In 8 Months time you have a screen that comes up at boot time that says
> "Problem with your program please call  before any lasting damage is done"
> at -xxx-". If they don't call in say a month the program stops
> working with your number on the front screen and How they can get a legal
> copy".
> 
> Sage Payroll used to not protect their payroll, so come April when rates
> changed, Sage always Got (gets?) a spike in sales - No questions asked as
> long as the user can transfer his data from the "pirated" version.   The
> people who will buy your program will buy it - the people who will copy
> your program will copy it anyway - you didn't lose a sale you got free
> advertising. How do you think microsoft replaced Lotus 123 - they removed
> protection from Office then gave a £90 upgrade from any version (even non
> legal version) after a couple of years.
> 
> Making your program indispensable (without too many barriers) to your
> paying customers is the best way of building a loyal customer base.
> 
> Save yourself a lot of time hassle and money and make the subscription/name
> the protection
> 
> My 2 pence worth
> 
> Lagi
> 
> p.s. If it can be read it can be broken
> 
> A 5 minute google search and a bit of memory 
> You'll be glad to hear no decompilers for Livecode - we are not on the
> radar.
> 
> // If you lose your sourcecode in the future .
> http://www.javadecompilers.com/
> https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software-hacking/tool-apk-easy-tool-v1-02-windows-gui-t960
> https://www.yeahhub.com/best-19-tools-used-reverse-engineering-2018-update/
> http://www.refox.net/
> http://www.iphonehacks.com/2018/05/ios-11-3-1-jailbreak-updates.html
> http://www.decompiler.net/
> https://www.vb-decompiler.org/
> https://www.thoughtco.com/decompiling-delphi-1-3-1057974
> http://www.dvdsmith.com/remove-sony-arccos-protection.html
> https://www.roojs.com/blog.php/View/117/Recovering_encoded_php_files.html
> 
> //Even hardware dongles are not immune
> https://www.brstudio.com/dongles/deskey-dk2-dk3-dongle-emulator/
> http://www.dongleservice.com/dongle-bypass.phtml
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 at 02:08, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>>> you want to include some of the advanced capabilities like restricted
>> trial,
>> Yes, I do want to use advanced capabilities.
>> 
>>> Does it just wrap the executable or does it encapsulate the entire
>> directory?
>> It can do either.
>> 
>> I am using pw protection on all stacks, which is is working well. More
>> important is the license activation and management because it is a
>> subscription product—there is a single version which has a free, limited
>> status or a full, paid status—the program needs the capability to shift to
>> either. Also I need to control the installations of the program. It will be
>> used in educational institutions, by individuals, sometimes in iffy
>> locations (China) where I need to minimize piracy.
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 14, 2018, at 4:23 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are you saying that you have the standard mode working but you want to
>> include some of the advanced capabilities like restricted trial, etc?
>>> 
>>> Does it just wrap the executable or does it encapsulate the entire
>> directory? I’m assuming you have decided that the password protection of
>> the stack isn’t sufficient.
>>> 
>>> Brian
>>> 

Re: Need help with a project

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Hi

Just to be clear - Time trials and demos are a good use of this program -
It was the "copy protection" I was referring to

Lagi

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 at 02:24, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Also, I want to add this: Yummy Interactive who is behind SoftwareShield
> has responded to my tech support questions about what to do, but I’m
> somewhat flummoxed with their responses. They assume I have more technical
> chops. This is the kind of thing:
>
> > 1. Is it possible to create a project that allows a user to have
> “unlimited” use for two weeks, then reverts to a “limited” version? Does
> this require use of a generated serial number, and an entity on your server?
> >
> >
> > The requirement can be implemented as following:
> >
> > (1) create a project, the default/first entity's license model is
> "Expire By Period" (
> http://doc.softwareshield.com/UG/license_action.html#expire-by-period <
> http://doc.softwareshield.com/UG/license_action.html#expire-by-period>)
> license model, set the periodInSeconds to 1209600 (two weeks).
> >
> > (2) in your app code, checks if the entity status is expired, run app in
> "unlimited" mode if not, switch to "limited" mode if expired.
> >
> >
> >
> > if (entity->isLocked()){
> >   //this entity is locked or trial already expired.
> >   //we may pop up info to prompt for purchase.
> >   run_in_limited_mode();
> > } else {
> >   //this entity still in two-weeks trial period
> >   run_in_unlimited_mode();
> > }
> >
> >   please refer to (http://doc.softwareshield.com/PG/index.html#pg_index
> ) for SDK
> programming.
> >
> > (3) use the license model's action ACT_SET_EXPIRE_PERIOD /
> ACT_ADD_EXPIRE_PERIOD (
> http://doc.softwareshield.com/UG/license_action.html#act_set_expire_period
> <
> http://doc.softwareshield.com/UG/license_action.html#act_set_expire_period>)
> to manipulate the customer's trial period. Basically it means you create
> serial numbers (with ACT_XXX_EXPIRE_PERIOD) on our web portal, send a
> serial number to the customer after payment, the user input the serial
> number on the license UI page so the app can run in "unlimited" mode again.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: Need help with a project

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

HI Peter,

The fact that it is a subscription system is the best protection you have.
Use the simplest protection that will tell you if the system has been
"pirated" - simple encryption of the company/institution address/details
for instance. Don't allow them to change the address/telephone number etc
in the program - so they have to "patch" the exe. When you notice this has
happened (5 lines of code) set a timer.
In 8 Months time you have a screen that comes up at boot time that says
"Problem with your program please call  before any lasting damage is done"
at -xxx-". If they don't call in say a month the program stops
working with your number on the front screen and How they can get a legal
copy".

Sage Payroll used to not protect their payroll, so come April when rates
changed, Sage always Got (gets?) a spike in sales - No questions asked as
long as the user can transfer his data from the "pirated" version.   The
people who will buy your program will buy it - the people who will copy
your program will copy it anyway - you didn't lose a sale you got free
advertising. How do you think microsoft replaced Lotus 123 - they removed
protection from Office then gave a £90 upgrade from any version (even non
legal version) after a couple of years.

Making your program indispensable (without too many barriers) to your
paying customers is the best way of building a loyal customer base.

Save yourself a lot of time hassle and money and make the subscription/name
the protection

My 2 pence worth

Lagi

p.s. If it can be read it can be broken

A 5 minute google search and a bit of memory 
You'll be glad to hear no decompilers for Livecode - we are not on the
radar.

// If you lose your sourcecode in the future .
http://www.javadecompilers.com/
https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software-hacking/tool-apk-easy-tool-v1-02-windows-gui-t960
https://www.yeahhub.com/best-19-tools-used-reverse-engineering-2018-update/
http://www.refox.net/
http://www.iphonehacks.com/2018/05/ios-11-3-1-jailbreak-updates.html
http://www.decompiler.net/
https://www.vb-decompiler.org/
https://www.thoughtco.com/decompiling-delphi-1-3-1057974
http://www.dvdsmith.com/remove-sony-arccos-protection.html
https://www.roojs.com/blog.php/View/117/Recovering_encoded_php_files.html

//Even hardware dongles are not immune
https://www.brstudio.com/dongles/deskey-dk2-dk3-dongle-emulator/
http://www.dongleservice.com/dongle-bypass.phtml




On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 at 02:08, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> > you want to include some of the advanced capabilities like restricted
> trial,
> Yes, I do want to use advanced capabilities.
>
> > Does it just wrap the executable or does it encapsulate the entire
> directory?
> It can do either.
>
> I am using pw protection on all stacks, which is is working well. More
> important is the license activation and management because it is a
> subscription product—there is a single version which has a free, limited
> status or a full, paid status—the program needs the capability to shift to
> either. Also I need to control the installations of the program. It will be
> used in educational institutions, by individuals, sometimes in iffy
> locations (China) where I need to minimize piracy.
>
> Peter
>
>
> > On Jun 14, 2018, at 4:23 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Are you saying that you have the standard mode working but you want to
> include some of the advanced capabilities like restricted trial, etc?
> >
> > Does it just wrap the executable or does it encapsulate the entire
> directory? I’m assuming you have decided that the password protection of
> the stack isn’t sufficient.
> >
> > Brian
> > On Jun 14, 2018, 4:28 PM -0500, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I’m working on a project that we are getting ready to publish as a
> desktop application for Mac and Windows.
> >>
> >> It is content heavy and I'm wanting to protect it, and am using a
> product called SoftwareShield/GameShield:
> >>
> >> http://softwareshield.com 
> >> http://gameshield.com 
> >>
> >> It puts a wrapping around the executable and offers license management
> that works well in its basic form. There are more advanced features that I
> want to take advantage of that seem to go beyond the capabilities of
> LiveCode script and my own personal abilities. It seems that LiveCode can
> work with SoftwareShield, but I don’t know where to begin, nor can I
> program anything besides LiveCode script.
> >>
> >> This is an example of where I get lost about figuring out how to
> progress:
> >>
> >> "Because the kernel of SoftwareShield is developed in C++ and the
> gsCore exposes flat API in standard way, any language (such as Object-C,
> Java, NodeJS, Perl, Python, etc.) that can make api call to Windows DLL or
> MacOS dylib can integrated 

Re: Need help with a project

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

> On Jun 14, 2018, at 18:23 , Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Also, I want to add this: Yummy Interactive who is behind SoftwareShield has 
> responded to my tech support questions about what to do, but I’m somewhat 
> flummoxed with their responses. They assume I have more technical chops. 

That happens a lot when technical people respond to questions. They presume a 
level of proficiency similar to their own. Many times people thing I am 
blathering on when explaining how something works and why it's not presently, 
but in actually I am making no assumptions. :-)

Bob S

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Re: Need help with a project

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Also, I want to add this: Yummy Interactive who is behind SoftwareShield has 
responded to my tech support questions about what to do, but I’m somewhat 
flummoxed with their responses. They assume I have more technical chops. This 
is the kind of thing:

> 1. Is it possible to create a project that allows a user to have “unlimited” 
> use for two weeks, then reverts to a “limited” version? Does this require use 
> of a generated serial number, and an entity on your server?
> 
> 
> The requirement can be implemented as following:
> 
> (1) create a project, the default/first entity's license model is "Expire By 
> Period" 
> (http://doc.softwareshield.com/UG/license_action.html#expire-by-period 
> ) 
> license model, set the periodInSeconds to 1209600 (two weeks).
> 
> (2) in your app code, checks if the entity status is expired, run app in 
> "unlimited" mode if not, switch to "limited" mode if expired. 
> 
> 
> 
> if (entity->isLocked()){
>   //this entity is locked or trial already expired.
>   //we may pop up info to prompt for purchase.
>   run_in_limited_mode();
> } else {
>   //this entity still in two-weeks trial period
>   run_in_unlimited_mode();
> }
> 
>   please refer to (http://doc.softwareshield.com/PG/index.html#pg_index 
> ) for SDK programming.
> 
> (3) use the license model's action ACT_SET_EXPIRE_PERIOD / 
> ACT_ADD_EXPIRE_PERIOD 
> (http://doc.softwareshield.com/UG/license_action.html#act_set_expire_period 
> ) 
> to manipulate the customer's trial period. Basically it means you create 
> serial numbers (with ACT_XXX_EXPIRE_PERIOD) on our web portal, send a serial 
> number to the customer after payment, the user input the serial number on the 
> license UI page so the app can run in "unlimited" mode again. 
> 





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Re: Need help with a project

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

> you want to include some of the advanced capabilities like restricted trial, 
Yes, I do want to use advanced capabilities.

> Does it just wrap the executable or does it encapsulate the entire directory? 
It can do either.

I am using pw protection on all stacks, which is is working well. More 
important is the license activation and management because it is a subscription 
product—there is a single version which has a free, limited status or a full, 
paid status—the program needs the capability to shift to either. Also I need to 
control the installations of the program. It will be used in educational 
institutions, by individuals, sometimes in iffy locations (China) where I need 
to minimize piracy. 

Peter


> On Jun 14, 2018, at 4:23 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Are you saying that you have the standard mode working but you want to 
> include some of the advanced capabilities like restricted trial, etc?
> 
> Does it just wrap the executable or does it encapsulate the entire directory? 
> I’m assuming you have decided that the password protection of the stack isn’t 
> sufficient.
> 
> Brian
> On Jun 14, 2018, 4:28 PM -0500, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
> , wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I’m working on a project that we are getting ready to publish as a desktop 
>> application for Mac and Windows.
>> 
>> It is content heavy and I'm wanting to protect it, and am using a product 
>> called SoftwareShield/GameShield:
>> 
>> http://softwareshield.com 
>> http://gameshield.com 
>> 
>> It puts a wrapping around the executable and offers license management that 
>> works well in its basic form. There are more advanced features that I want 
>> to take advantage of that seem to go beyond the capabilities of LiveCode 
>> script and my own personal abilities. It seems that LiveCode can work with 
>> SoftwareShield, but I don’t know where to begin, nor can I program anything 
>> besides LiveCode script.
>> 
>> This is an example of where I get lost about figuring out how to progress:
>> 
>> "Because the kernel of SoftwareShield is developed in C++ and the gsCore 
>> exposes flat API in standard way, any language (such as Object-C, Java, 
>> NodeJS, Perl, Python, etc.) that can make api call to Windows DLL or MacOS 
>> dylib can integrated with SoftwareShield SDK.”
>> 
>> http://doc.softwareshield.com/PG/index.html#pg_index
>> 
>> 
>> Here’s docs they provide:
>> 
>> http://doc.softwareshield.com/index.html
>> http://doc.softwareshield.com/PG/ui_gs5.html#sdk_js
>> 
>> 
>> So, I’m looking for someone who can:
>> 
>> 1. Guide me through the process
>> 2. Do Javascript or advanced LC programming as needed
>> 
>> This is help I need immediately.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Peter Bogdanoff
>> ArtsInteractive
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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> preferences:
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Re: Need help with a project

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

Are you saying that you have the standard mode working but you want to include 
some of the advanced capabilities like restricted trial, etc?

Does it just wrap the executable or does it encapsulate the entire directory? 
I’m assuming you have decided that the password protection of the stack isn’t 
sufficient.

Brian
On Jun 14, 2018, 4:28 PM -0500, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I’m working on a project that we are getting ready to publish as a desktop 
> application for Mac and Windows.
>
> It is content heavy and I'm wanting to protect it, and am using a product 
> called SoftwareShield/GameShield:
>
> http://softwareshield.com 
> http://gameshield.com 
>
> It puts a wrapping around the executable and offers license management that 
> works well in its basic form. There are more advanced features that I want to 
> take advantage of that seem to go beyond the capabilities of LiveCode script 
> and my own personal abilities. It seems that LiveCode can work with 
> SoftwareShield, but I don’t know where to begin, nor can I program anything 
> besides LiveCode script.
>
> This is an example of where I get lost about figuring out how to progress:
>
> "Because the kernel of SoftwareShield is developed in C++ and the gsCore 
> exposes flat API in standard way, any language (such as Object-C, Java, 
> NodeJS, Perl, Python, etc.) that can make api call to Windows DLL or MacOS 
> dylib can integrated with SoftwareShield SDK.”
>
> http://doc.softwareshield.com/PG/index.html#pg_index
>
>
> Here’s docs they provide:
>
> http://doc.softwareshield.com/index.html
> http://doc.softwareshield.com/PG/ui_gs5.html#sdk_js
>
>
> So, I’m looking for someone who can:
>
> 1. Guide me through the process
> 2. Do Javascript or advanced LC programming as needed
>
> This is help I need immediately.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Peter Bogdanoff
> ArtsInteractive
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Need help with a project

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Hi,

I’m working on a project that we are getting ready to publish as a desktop 
application for Mac and Windows.

It is content heavy and I'm wanting to protect it, and am using a product 
called SoftwareShield/GameShield:

http://softwareshield.com 
http://gameshield.com 

It puts a wrapping around the executable and offers license management that 
works well in its basic form. There are more advanced features that I want to 
take advantage of that seem to go beyond the capabilities of LiveCode script 
and my own personal abilities. It seems that LiveCode can work with 
SoftwareShield, but I don’t know where to begin, nor can I program anything 
besides LiveCode script.

This is an example of where I get lost about figuring out how to progress:

"Because the kernel of SoftwareShield is developed in C++ and the gsCore 
exposes flat API in standard way, any language (such as Object-C, Java, NodeJS, 
Perl, Python, etc.) that can make api call to Windows DLL or MacOS dylib can 
integrated with SoftwareShield SDK.”

http://doc.softwareshield.com/PG/index.html#pg_index


Here’s docs they provide:

http://doc.softwareshield.com/index.html
http://doc.softwareshield.com/PG/ui_gs5.html#sdk_js


So, I’m looking for someone who can:

1. Guide me through the process
2. Do Javascript or advanced LC programming as needed

This is help I need immediately.

Thanks!

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive
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