Re: Platform Divergence
On 6/23/20 7:03 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: Put a standard scrolling field on a mobile device and it always looks Win91/Linux styled. To this day!! Hasn't been improved by Team LC or even considered. It has always fallen on us to fake it and go through mental amounts of flaming hoops. It would be great to have a scrolling field widget, I do hope that happens, but you can already do the same thing with a native mobile scroller. It's cross-platform. It does require some initial scripting but once you've done that, you can use the same handlers anywhere or set them up as behaviors. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Platform Divergence
I'm pretty convinced that, although some of the UI niceties won't be included initially, LC will be barely, if not completely, unaffected by this divergence (even with AppleStore complications). No more than we already have! Scrollbars always get me! Put a standard scrolling field on a mobile device and it always looks Win91/Linux styled. To this day!! Hasn't been improved by Team LC or even considered. It has always fallen on us to fake it and go through mental amounts of flaming hoops. We have the 'native' fields now (LCB) but you have to swap out in code between platforms if you are developing for multi-platform environments. That said, it's still easier jumping through those hoops that coding in C+, C#, Obj-C/Swift, Java and Html5/CSS/JS/PHP to get something working cross-platform. LC is still a little marvel! Sean Cole *Pi Digital * ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Platform Divergence
Something they did show was a demo of a high end Intel CPU compiled game, and with Rosetta 2 the performance was good. I think it will be a few years before having to take advantage of native hardware will matter, and if LiveCode is built with Xcode, there is already a way to compile so that the application supports both sets of hardware. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Platform Divergence
Presentation yesterday made a point of saying that apps DID NOT have to go through the Mac App Store. It will probably be like Catalina where the OS will warn, but there is an unobtrusive Open button that will let you run anything you want. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 23, 2020, at 1:22 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode > wrote: > > We make and sell a desktop application (Windows and macOS) for a niche > research market. I expect when Apple does their migration to a common > processor and OS, Apple Developer's will have to go through all of Apple > hoops for all their platforms.Most of our customer don't care about UI widget > animations. They want the app to do certain functions and do them well and > quickly to work with their data. As long as the UI is effective, whether it > conforms precisely to Microsoft or Apple UI guidelines is secondary. So, even > if you only care about desktops, your app will have to be sold through > Apple's single App Store, conform to all screen sizes on all their devices, > and follow all their UI guidelines, etc. > > At that point, given that Windows is 2/3rd of our market and macOS 1/3rd, > we'll drop support for macOS sadly. I say sadly because our application > originated way back in the late 1980 as a HyperCard App for MacOS. > > But, to your point, your concern IS valid for those people wanting Apps from > you that they insist MUST conform to all of Apple's esoteric requirements. It > is likely it will become increasingly harder for the LiveCode ideal of > develop once and deploy everywhere. > > >> On 6/23/2020 2:56 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: >> This year’s WWDC shows Apple is moving to a unified ‘system' for all their >> products: Mac, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AppleTV. >> The Apple development environment promises to produce a single app capable >> of running on all, or almost all, of Apple devices. This unification >> promises to be quite convenient for Apple developers. >> >> In contrast, over the last decade or so there has been an ever increasing >> divergence in UX between major operating systems: Apple, Windows, Linux, >> Android. The days when systems were so similar that you could rely on the >> commonality of a handful of UI elements across platforms seems over to me. >> That’s troubling because such commonality is fundamental to LiveCode’s >> approach - write once, run everywhere. >> >> In watching WWDC sessions it’s pretty clear that even simple UI elements >> have become more like UX elements having intrinsic and complex properties, >> such as certain visual and behavioral animations. Users readily learn to >> expect these behaviors. Yet such things are increasing difficult to fake >> with LiveCode’s basic palette of objects. >> >> Enter LiveCode Builder and LC Widgets. They offer the promise of >> platform-specific UI elements - a promise fulfilled with some simple >> elements like iOS Native Button or Android Native Field. But I’m concerned >> that as platforms diverge in the interface experiences they present to >> users, that LC and LC developers will have difficulty satisfying users' >> divergent expectations. >> >> Is my concern valid? >> >> Jim Lambert >> >> >> ___ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Platform Divergence
Time to learn Swift and SwiftUI Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 23, 2020, at 1:44 PM, Richmond via use-livecode > wrote: > > A plastic bath-toy that dumbs everything down for the fashionistas and rich, > slack-jawed morons. > > Vrey sad indeed. > >> On 23.06.20 22:36, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode wrote: >> Got really depressed watching the presentation. >> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 12:22 Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> We make and sell a desktop application (Windows and macOS) for a niche >>> research market. I expect when Apple does their migration to a common >>> processor and OS, Apple Developer's will have to go through all of Apple >>> hoops for all their platforms.Most of our customer don't care about UI >>> widget animations. They want the app to do certain functions and do them >>> well and quickly to work with their data. As long as the UI is >>> effective, whether it conforms precisely to Microsoft or Apple UI >>> guidelines is secondary. So, even if you only care about desktops, your >>> app will have to be sold through Apple's single App Store, conform to >>> all screen sizes on all their devices, and follow all their UI >>> guidelines, etc. >>> >>> At that point, given that Windows is 2/3rd of our market and macOS >>> 1/3rd, we'll drop support for macOS sadly. I say sadly because our >>> application originated way back in the late 1980 as a HyperCard App for >>> MacOS. >>> >>> But, to your point, your concern IS valid for those people wanting Apps >>> from you that they insist MUST conform to all of Apple's esoteric >>> requirements. It is likely it will become increasingly harder for the >>> LiveCode ideal of develop once and deploy everywhere. >>> >>> >>> On 6/23/2020 2:56 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: This year’s WWDC shows Apple is moving to a unified ‘system' for all >>> their products: Mac, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AppleTV. The Apple development environment promises to produce a single app >>> capable of running on all, or almost all, of Apple devices. This >>> unification promises to be quite convenient for Apple developers. In contrast, over the last decade or so there has been an ever >>> increasing divergence in UX between major operating systems: Apple, >>> Windows, Linux, Android. The days when systems were so similar that you >>> could rely on the commonality of a handful of UI elements across platforms >>> seems over to me. That’s troubling because such commonality is fundamental >>> to LiveCode’s approach - write once, run everywhere. In watching WWDC sessions it’s pretty clear that even simple UI elements >>> have become more like UX elements having intrinsic and complex properties, >>> such as certain visual and behavioral animations. Users readily learn to >>> expect these behaviors. Yet such things are increasing difficult to fake >>> with LiveCode’s basic palette of objects. Enter LiveCode Builder and LC Widgets. They offer the promise of >>> platform-specific UI elements - a promise fulfilled with some simple >>> elements like iOS Native Button or Android Native Field. But I’m concerned >>> that as platforms diverge in the interface experiences they present to >>> users, that LC and LC developers will have difficulty satisfying users' >>> divergent expectations. Is my concern valid? Jim Lambert ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> ___ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Platform Divergence
A plastic bath-toy that dumbs everything down for the fashionistas and rich, slack-jawed morons. Vrey sad indeed. On 23.06.20 22:36, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode wrote: Got really depressed watching the presentation. On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 12:22 Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: We make and sell a desktop application (Windows and macOS) for a niche research market. I expect when Apple does their migration to a common processor and OS, Apple Developer's will have to go through all of Apple hoops for all their platforms.Most of our customer don't care about UI widget animations. They want the app to do certain functions and do them well and quickly to work with their data. As long as the UI is effective, whether it conforms precisely to Microsoft or Apple UI guidelines is secondary. So, even if you only care about desktops, your app will have to be sold through Apple's single App Store, conform to all screen sizes on all their devices, and follow all their UI guidelines, etc. At that point, given that Windows is 2/3rd of our market and macOS 1/3rd, we'll drop support for macOS sadly. I say sadly because our application originated way back in the late 1980 as a HyperCard App for MacOS. But, to your point, your concern IS valid for those people wanting Apps from you that they insist MUST conform to all of Apple's esoteric requirements. It is likely it will become increasingly harder for the LiveCode ideal of develop once and deploy everywhere. On 6/23/2020 2:56 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: This year’s WWDC shows Apple is moving to a unified ‘system' for all their products: Mac, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AppleTV. The Apple development environment promises to produce a single app capable of running on all, or almost all, of Apple devices. This unification promises to be quite convenient for Apple developers. In contrast, over the last decade or so there has been an ever increasing divergence in UX between major operating systems: Apple, Windows, Linux, Android. The days when systems were so similar that you could rely on the commonality of a handful of UI elements across platforms seems over to me. That’s troubling because such commonality is fundamental to LiveCode’s approach - write once, run everywhere. In watching WWDC sessions it’s pretty clear that even simple UI elements have become more like UX elements having intrinsic and complex properties, such as certain visual and behavioral animations. Users readily learn to expect these behaviors. Yet such things are increasing difficult to fake with LiveCode’s basic palette of objects. Enter LiveCode Builder and LC Widgets. They offer the promise of platform-specific UI elements - a promise fulfilled with some simple elements like iOS Native Button or Android Native Field. But I’m concerned that as platforms diverge in the interface experiences they present to users, that LC and LC developers will have difficulty satisfying users' divergent expectations. Is my concern valid? Jim Lambert ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Platform Divergence
Got really depressed watching the presentation. On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 12:22 Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > We make and sell a desktop application (Windows and macOS) for a niche > research market. I expect when Apple does their migration to a common > processor and OS, Apple Developer's will have to go through all of Apple > hoops for all their platforms.Most of our customer don't care about UI > widget animations. They want the app to do certain functions and do them > well and quickly to work with their data. As long as the UI is > effective, whether it conforms precisely to Microsoft or Apple UI > guidelines is secondary. So, even if you only care about desktops, your > app will have to be sold through Apple's single App Store, conform to > all screen sizes on all their devices, and follow all their UI > guidelines, etc. > > At that point, given that Windows is 2/3rd of our market and macOS > 1/3rd, we'll drop support for macOS sadly. I say sadly because our > application originated way back in the late 1980 as a HyperCard App for > MacOS. > > But, to your point, your concern IS valid for those people wanting Apps > from you that they insist MUST conform to all of Apple's esoteric > requirements. It is likely it will become increasingly harder for the > LiveCode ideal of develop once and deploy everywhere. > > > On 6/23/2020 2:56 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > > This year’s WWDC shows Apple is moving to a unified ‘system' for all > their products: Mac, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AppleTV. > > The Apple development environment promises to produce a single app > capable of running on all, or almost all, of Apple devices. This > unification promises to be quite convenient for Apple developers. > > > > In contrast, over the last decade or so there has been an ever > increasing divergence in UX between major operating systems: Apple, > Windows, Linux, Android. The days when systems were so similar that you > could rely on the commonality of a handful of UI elements across platforms > seems over to me. That’s troubling because such commonality is fundamental > to LiveCode’s approach - write once, run everywhere. > > > > In watching WWDC sessions it’s pretty clear that even simple UI elements > have become more like UX elements having intrinsic and complex properties, > such as certain visual and behavioral animations. Users readily learn to > expect these behaviors. Yet such things are increasing difficult to fake > with LiveCode’s basic palette of objects. > > > > Enter LiveCode Builder and LC Widgets. They offer the promise of > platform-specific UI elements - a promise fulfilled with some simple > elements like iOS Native Button or Android Native Field. But I’m concerned > that as platforms diverge in the interface experiences they present to > users, that LC and LC developers will have difficulty satisfying users' > divergent expectations. > > > > Is my concern valid? > > > > Jim Lambert > > > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Platform Divergence
We make and sell a desktop application (Windows and macOS) for a niche research market. I expect when Apple does their migration to a common processor and OS, Apple Developer's will have to go through all of Apple hoops for all their platforms.Most of our customer don't care about UI widget animations. They want the app to do certain functions and do them well and quickly to work with their data. As long as the UI is effective, whether it conforms precisely to Microsoft or Apple UI guidelines is secondary. So, even if you only care about desktops, your app will have to be sold through Apple's single App Store, conform to all screen sizes on all their devices, and follow all their UI guidelines, etc. At that point, given that Windows is 2/3rd of our market and macOS 1/3rd, we'll drop support for macOS sadly. I say sadly because our application originated way back in the late 1980 as a HyperCard App for MacOS. But, to your point, your concern IS valid for those people wanting Apps from you that they insist MUST conform to all of Apple's esoteric requirements. It is likely it will become increasingly harder for the LiveCode ideal of develop once and deploy everywhere. On 6/23/2020 2:56 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: This year’s WWDC shows Apple is moving to a unified ‘system' for all their products: Mac, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AppleTV. The Apple development environment promises to produce a single app capable of running on all, or almost all, of Apple devices. This unification promises to be quite convenient for Apple developers. In contrast, over the last decade or so there has been an ever increasing divergence in UX between major operating systems: Apple, Windows, Linux, Android. The days when systems were so similar that you could rely on the commonality of a handful of UI elements across platforms seems over to me. That’s troubling because such commonality is fundamental to LiveCode’s approach - write once, run everywhere. In watching WWDC sessions it’s pretty clear that even simple UI elements have become more like UX elements having intrinsic and complex properties, such as certain visual and behavioral animations. Users readily learn to expect these behaviors. Yet such things are increasing difficult to fake with LiveCode’s basic palette of objects. Enter LiveCode Builder and LC Widgets. They offer the promise of platform-specific UI elements - a promise fulfilled with some simple elements like iOS Native Button or Android Native Field. But I’m concerned that as platforms diverge in the interface experiences they present to users, that LC and LC developers will have difficulty satisfying users' divergent expectations. Is my concern valid? Jim Lambert ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Platform Divergence
This year’s WWDC shows Apple is moving to a unified ‘system' for all their products: Mac, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AppleTV. The Apple development environment promises to produce a single app capable of running on all, or almost all, of Apple devices. This unification promises to be quite convenient for Apple developers. In contrast, over the last decade or so there has been an ever increasing divergence in UX between major operating systems: Apple, Windows, Linux, Android. The days when systems were so similar that you could rely on the commonality of a handful of UI elements across platforms seems over to me. That’s troubling because such commonality is fundamental to LiveCode’s approach - write once, run everywhere. In watching WWDC sessions it’s pretty clear that even simple UI elements have become more like UX elements having intrinsic and complex properties, such as certain visual and behavioral animations. Users readily learn to expect these behaviors. Yet such things are increasing difficult to fake with LiveCode’s basic palette of objects. Enter LiveCode Builder and LC Widgets. They offer the promise of platform-specific UI elements - a promise fulfilled with some simple elements like iOS Native Button or Android Native Field. But I’m concerned that as platforms diverge in the interface experiences they present to users, that LC and LC developers will have difficulty satisfying users' divergent expectations. Is my concern valid? Jim Lambert ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
