Hi John,
Relationships are stored in a different store than nodes. This enables Neo4j to
manage lifecycle events (like caching) for nodes and relationships separately.
Neo4j really is a graph DB, not a tripple store masquerading as a graph DB.
Nonetheless, that code Michael sent still works
I think this raises an important point:
so it looks like, HA is better than using neo4j server then , but I thought
they were both using the same way to access data, via URI and weird messy
stuff :)
You can use HA whether you embed Neo4j in your process or whether it's embedded
within the
Hi,
Responses from calling the Neo4j APIs are typically lazy, for performance
reasons. So there's no way of eagerly counting the number of relationships
unless you force eager evaluation as you've suggested below.
Jim
On 20 Jul 2011, at 11:13, cyuczi eekc wrote:
Is there a way to get the
Hi Cyuczi,
You can't open the same database twice in two programs. If you want data to be
replicated between Neo4j instances, look into HA:
http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/stable/ha-how.html
http://wiki.neo4j.org/content/High_Availability_Cluster
Jim
Hi Mattias,
If I understand you correctly, you're pointing two database instances (one
being read-only) at the same on-disk location. Is that correct?
Jim
On 16 Jul 2011, at 07:37, Mathias Hensel wrote:
Hello,
I try to use Neo4J in a Ruby on Rails application (MRI Ruby not JRuby). Due
Hi Dharmendra,
I'm happily using the 1.4 M04 Neoclipse with the 1.4GA release of Neo4j on mac
osx. What symptoms are you seeing?
Jim
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Hi Thomas,
At the moment, if you want to use Neo4j as a centralised server-based database,
you'll need to use the REST API.
But an equally good approach (if you're on the JVM) is to federate your
database around your solution - inline with the application itself. Then use
Neo4j HA to keep
Hello Eelco,
Right. I implemented this as an unmanaged extension. Now what I'm
wondering is if I can implement the same as a server plugin.
You can - but if you already have code that works, I wouldn't bother.
Also, somewhat related, what would be the best way to develop a server
plugin
Hi Aseem,
The paged traversers in the REST API don't support sorting, and probably never
will do. Here's why:
In order to sort, we need a set of results to sort. If we're going to have a
completely sorted result set, we need a complete set of results which may be
large.
The irony is, even as
Hello Eelco,
[snip]
Yeah, I hoped to avoid anything involving static :-) I can also see
how this would be a dangerous thing to support for Neo4J. But I do
believe I have a reasonable use case for it. Is there any (other) way
to plug in code that is executed during bootstrapping?
Not really.
Hi Aseem,
[snip]
What's the default sorting based on, then? Is it unspecified? I think it
would be helpful to at least know, to help is in design.
At the most basic level, it can be down to whether you're doing a depth- or
breadth-first search. It will be influenced by the relationship types
Hi Aseem,
I think in that case it's non-deterministic - which means you page until you
have enough results.
Jim
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) 1.4.M06http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/org.neo4j/neo4j-kernel/1.4.M06
milestone
Binaryhttp://repo1.maven.org/maven2/org/neo4j/neo4j-kernel/1.4.M06/neo4j-kernel-1.4.M06.jar
(802
KB)
Regards ,
Dima Gutzeit.
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Jim Webber j...@neotechnology.com wrote
Hi guys,
Yeah, all keys are underscore separated now.
Jim
On 12 Jul 2011, at 06:39, Josh Adell wrote:
Mike,
Try return_filter and max_depth. I believe most of the JSON
property names are underscore separated now. I don't know if depth
first also needs the underscore.
-- Josh Adell
Hi Javier,
I think the simplest thing is to write a traverser that reaches every node on
the graph through every relationship.
Jim
On 12 Jul 2011, at 12:18, Javier de la Rosa wrote:
Hi all,
I know that I could do this using indices, but it's not for me the
most natural way to do it. I'm
Hey Javier,
And this should work even if my graph has several unconnected componentes?
Oh, no it won't. Then I'd suggest writing a managed/unmanaged plugin that calls
getAllNodes() on the server side.
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Hi Eelco,
The unmanaged extensions simply give you access to the underlying Graph
Database instance (through the annotations).
The managed plugins do far more than this - they also provide a way of
generating JSON/HTML responses automatically (using HTTP content negotiation).
In either case
Hi Javier,
getAllNodes() has been in the API for a long time.
getAllRelationships has been talked about, it's in our development backlog, but
there is no timing associated with it.
You can write getAllRelationships based on getAllNodes.
Jim
On 12 Jul 2011, at 14:47, Javier de la Rosa wrote:
() equivalent in the REST API.
Aseem
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Jim Webber j...@neotechnology.com wrote:
Hi Javier,
getAllNodes() has been in the API for a long time.
getAllRelationships has been talked about, it's in our development backlog,
but there is no timing associated
2011, at 15:40, Javier de la Rosa wrote:
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 17:27, Jim Webber j...@neotechnology.com wrote:
I think Javier was asking about how he'd go about writing getAllNodes and
getAllRelationships as a plugin/unmanaged extension in REST.
Sorry, I was asking about exactly
are eager to hear what you think.
For more details on this GA, see the release blog post at
http://blog.neo4j.org/2011/07/announcing-neo4j-14-kiruna-stol-ga.html
and, as always, get the latest release at http://neo4j.org/download/
Happy hacking!
-- Jim Webber
Hello Aliabbas,
Thanks but can we get the code of evaluation results of neo4j write
performance on large graph dbs having densely populated nodes
are there any published research papers which use them?
I don't know of any peer-reviewed research in this area.
Jim
Hello Aliabbas,
It's domain specific, but in general you write less in a graph db because the
power is in relationships.
Imagine something akin to Digg where lots of users follow the postings of other
users. Each time a writer posts something new, all of the followers will
typically need to
Hi Patrik,
Michael Hunger's add-on is what you need:
https://github.com/jexp/neo4j-clean-remote-db-addon
I believe it'll be packaged by default with our next release (but totally
disabled!).
Jim
On 8 Jul 2011, at 15:32, Patrik Sundberg wrote:
Hi,
Is there a good way to ensure I have a
Hi John,
But if I try to do a distributed join, aren't I hit with having to transfer
more data over the wire?
Yes you're right - that's one penalty of having a graph distributed. Each time
you hit a relationship that crosses a machine, the latency is way higher than
if you were traversing
Thanks for that Stephan,
I've dropped it into our QA backlog for the 1.4 GA release.
Jim
On 6 Jul 2011, at 12:06, Stephan Hagemann wrote:
Hi everyone,
a rather old linux installation on our build server led us to find out that
the new start script introduced in M05 (?) does not work with
Hi Rick,
Are you thinking maybe of lazily loading relationships in 1.5? That might be
a huge boost.
Added to the backlog to be discussed for inclusion in 1.5.
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Greetings fellow graphistas!
It’s been a hectic week since the the 1.4 M05 release, and during testing for
what we thought would be our General Availability (GA) release, we found a
potential corruption bug in that specific milestone.
So today we’re releasing 1.4 M06 which contains the fix and
Hello John,
My understanding is that Neo4j is wrapped with an API that allows data
consuming application to be unaware of how data is distributed across
multiple server nodes. Is that correct?
No, that's not quite correct, as far as I understand your question. Neo4j uses
master-slave
Hi John,
Gotcha better now.
[snip]
I am not sure I understand. Why do large graphs that span multiple machines
require domain specific sharding? Assuming a not overly inter-connected set
of shards, can't you have an intelligent query processor that partitions a
query (passes on a subquery
Hi Axel,
- Is 1.4 M04 safe?
Yes. This bug was introduced in M05.
- How can we detect whether corruption occured, and is there a way
recover from that?
Your database will likely be missing nodes. Though I believe if you perform an
abrupt unclean shutdown of M05 and bring up the database
Hi fellow graphistas,
In testing our upcoming 1.4 GA release, we discovered a subtle bug in our 1.4
M05 release that can result in database corruption. Under certain circumstances
with clean shutdowns of the database it's possible that freed IDs will be
recycled more than once, meaning that on
Hi Aliabbas,
is it true that in neo4j there is no remote thread-safe API.
No. That is a false assertion. The REST API is thread safe since it wraps the
same thread-safe code as the Java APIs.
There can still be *contention* but there is always thread safety (and ACIDity).
Jim
Hi René,
The only difference between what I advocate and your direction connections is
depth. You're (implicitly) looking to work at depth 1, whereas I'm suggesting
that (weighted) paths at deeper levels can be just as useful (and since Neo4j
makes traversing cheap, that additional depth often
Hello Aliabbas,
I don't believe Neo4j is suited to single clusters with petabytes of data. It's
possible but impractical because we scale for reads through replicas and
cache-sharding. And petabyte replicas are impractical.
Jim
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Hey Aliabbas,
It's unlikely that our store will be a good place for video - we're optimised
around fast relationship traversal rather than big blobs. I'd recommend just
hosting their (relative) URIs in Neo4j and exposing the files out on to the
Web, hosted on the filesystem or in something
Hi Wolfgang,
Neo4j is a good fit for this kind of domain. There are people on this list who
(confidentiality permitting) may vouch that using Neo4j to manage
infrastructure deployments is quite sensible.
In my mind the key benefit is rapidly being able to traverse the tree for fault
finding
Hi Stefan,
These are good points, and I don't think we have yet reached a mature level of
best practice as the relational folks have. But I don't think graph modelling
is too hard. I have a couple of rules of thumb:
1. Model entities as entities and use relationships to describe how those
Hi Sidarth,
Neo4j makes full replicas from master to slaves.
Jim
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Hi Aliabbas,
It's quite feasible to run multiple graph DBs, that's just manual sharding. In
your application you own the mapping to which of the graph DBs you want to
interact with, and your app also reifies links between instances.
But do try a single instance first (with slave replication
Hi Aliabbas,
It's difficult to make pronouncements about your solution design without
knowing about it, but here are some heuristics that can help you to plan
whether you go with a native Neo4j solution or mix it up with other stores. All
of these are only ideas and you should test first to
Hi Bryan,
You forgot to create an index for your characters to which you have to add
them. And you forgot Neo's title - The One as a property. Here's a snippet that
should send you in the right direction:
// Create an index and give it a name
IndexNode characters =
Keep the questions flowing Bryan, there will always be someone on this list
ready to help.
Jim
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Hi Sidharth,
Why is a better IO layer required btw... can you please explain?
This is a bit of speculation on my part, but it likely won't be too far from
the truth.
Neo4j has quite an optimised store layout on disk and that strategy pervades
the IO parts of the stack for performance
Be aware that for the 1.4 M05 release these have been updated.
Key names for your traversers are now separated by underscores rather than
spaces in the docs and in the code*.
Jim
* OK, we actually are a bit permissive in the code, but you should assume
underscores.
On 22 Jun 2011, at 13:03,
Hi Mino,
What I'd like to build is a graph where every node that is not a
source has a shortest path to any one of the sources.
That is the answer, surely?
But it means running the shortest path algorithm on each non-source node to a
given source node.
Jim
Hello Aniceto,
- EmbeddedGraphDatabase, which is good for tests, supports transactions
and has quick communications. Not good for medium sized or HA apps
because lacks separation between app and data
The EmbeddedGraphDatabase is fine for production use - in fact it's the default
choice!
Hi Aman,
This is the classic friends-of-friends problem recast as friends-of-places. The
hard thing about places (as opposed to most normal friends) is that they tend
to be popular. While I might only reach hundreds of friends-of-friends (if I'm
lucky!), being recommended people that have
stupid... Any suggestions about this?
On 6/18/11, Jim Webber j...@neotechnology.com wrote:
Hi Aman,
I'm puzzled.
Why not
Aman--HAS_VISITED--USA
Jim--HAS_VISITED--India
And if:
Aman--FRIEND-OF--Jim
Then you just need to traverse from Aman following outgoing FRIEND_OF
Hi Manav,
Although the REST API isn't as flexible as the native JVM API, it's still
suitable for large projects. You just have to be even more careful about your
design.
This means it is suitable for PHP, and I've seen the a lot of PHP activity on
the neo4j twitter stream in the last few
Hi Rick,
I can see a bunch of source jars in the Neo maven repository:
http://m2.neo4j.org/org/neo4j/neo4j/1.4-SNAPSHOT/
Does that help?
Jim
PS - We're doing some internal build work to try to rid ourselves of our
*internal* dependency on Maven. Once that's done, a better build world will
Of Jim Webber
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 12:20 PM
To: Neo4j user discussions
Subject: Re: [Neo4j] Neo Distributions Including Source
Hi Rick,
I can see a bunch of source jars in the Neo maven repository:
http://m2.neo4j.org/org/neo4j/neo4j/1.4-SNAPSHOT/
Does that help?
Jim
PS
Hello Manav,
Thanks for the reply. Can u elaborate more on how much slow is this
Rest api so that I can get the idea of how to manage my traversals and
interactions.
The cost per interaction is the network cost + transaction cost. You can make
this super expensive by, for example,
Hello Aniceto,
Michael Hunger wrote a Java wrapper that uses the REST API under the covers:
https://github.com/jexp/neo4j-java-rest-binding
As Chris pointed out a couple of emails ago, although this API is similar to
the embedded API, it goes over HTTP and so is far slower.
Jim
On 17 Jun
Hello Sulabh,
We're going to need a little more information before we can help.
Can you tell us how it fails? Are you trying to run a batch inserter on
different databases on each of your parallel jobs?
Jim
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Hi Aman,
I'm puzzled.
Why not
Aman--HAS_VISITED--USA
Jim--HAS_VISITED--India
And if:
Aman--FRIEND-OF--Jim
Then you just need to traverse from Aman following outgoing FRIEND_OF
relationships to all your friends, and then traverse out their outgoing
HAS_VISITED relationships to find places
Hi Josh,
I'm currently working on some REST API stuff, so my head's right in this space.
I'm happy to take a look at this is if you send over a failing test.
Jim
On 17 Jun 2011, at 21:34, Josh Adell wrote:
I am using the Dijkstra path finding algorithm. I have several
relationships set up
Hi Aniceto,
It happens that there is a similar class in SDG, but you should look at the
version in Michael Hunger's repo:
https://github.com/jexp/neo4j-java-rest-binding
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Hi Josh,
I'm just wiring up a bunch of code that implements REST paging, and then I'll
codify these tests and sort it out.
Jim
On 18 Jun 2011, at 01:17, Josh Adell wrote:
Jim,
The best I can do as far as a failing test is this series of curl
calls. I create 2 nodes, then connect them with
Hi Manav,
I think there's a relationship missing here.
Pen--SOLD_BY--shop
That way it's easy to find all the pens that a shop sold, and who them sold
them to.
In general modelling your domain expressively does not come at an increase cost
with Neo4j (caveat: you can still create write
Hi Josh,
It's a safe assumption that JSON keys will be underscore delimited. If you find
something that isn't consider it a bug and let us know.
Jim
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appropriate to the purchase (date/time, price,
etc).
Then traverse from the shop or the pen to all purchase actions that
reference the other one (shop or pen).
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:48 AM, Jim Webber j...@neotechnology.com wrote:
Hi Manav,
I think there's a relationship missing here.
Pen
, e.g. http://my.host:7474/db/data.
org.neo4j.server.webadmin.data.uri=http://localhost:7474/db/data/
Which one is right - the app or the doco? :)
-- Tatham
-Original Message-
From: user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org [mailto:user-boun...@lists.neo4j.org] On
Behalf Of Jim
Hi Johan,
We do have some security features in our backlog, but they are a low priority
at the moment. If there's a push for such features here on the list, it'd be
helpful so that we can understand the relative priorities for people in the
community.
Jim
Hi Boris,
You need to build these plugins against the server-api package:
dependency
groupIdorg.neo4j/groupId
artifactIdserver-api/artifactId
version1.4.M04/version
/dependency
Once they're built, you just drop the jars in the $NEO4J_HOME/plugins
directory. Note that the jar file
Hi Tatham,
From your previous mail seems the REST API is working so at least some parts
of the server are coming up ok. Can you mail over your
conf/neo4j-server.properties as Michael suggested, and let us know:
Neo4j version
OS version (I'm assuming you're on Win 7)
Browser and version
And
And here is the announcement that you are looking for:
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Neo4jBlog/~3/Q80BYTE2rnw/kiruna-stol-14-milestone-4.html
Jim
On 10 Jun 2011, at 07:58, Kiss, Miklós wrote:
Great!
I'm looking forward to test the new version.
Hi Miklós,
Batch updates through the REST
Hi Miklós,
Batch updates through the REST API will be supported from 1.4 M4 which should
be released today - so no need to roll your own.
Jim
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The Doctor Who dataset is trivially generated by running a unit test here:
https://github.com/jimwebber/neo4j-tutorial
Jim
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G'day Tatham,
Just to prune the search tree a bit. Can you bring up your instance and try to
interact with it via curl? That way if it succeeds we know we have a Webadmin
problem, or if it fails it's likely we have a config to debug.
Give this a shot:
curl -X POST -H Accept:application/json
Hey Rick,
Doesn't the Maven repo cover that use case?
Jim
On 2 Jun 2011, at 06:42, Rick Bullotta wrote:
Given that the standard distro is growing rather large, could there perhaps
also be an embedded distro/build that just includes the necessary jars for
embedded Neo4J without all of the
Bradford and Savas should be pretty keen on participating too I expect.
Jim
On 4 Jun 2011, at 17:50, Andreas Kollegger wrote:
Saikat,
Hm. It seems that meetup.com limits me to being the organizer of 3 meetups.
You can create the group and I'll join up, then send you the badge and set up
Hi folks,
The Neo4j London User Group will be meeting tonight at Skillsmatter (116-120
Goswell Road; nearest tube: Old Street). If you're in the area, come along and
listen to Neil Ellis give a talk on collaboration and database serendipity.
Hi Marcelo,
I'm a neo4j newbie so I apologize for my (most likely naive) questions.
This list is pretty friendly, and since Neo4j is quite new itself we're all
newbies one way or another :-)
What's the best way to find commonalities between two people (based on
likes)? Is it possible to put
If you use it in the M03 release, you're on your own :-)
Jim
On 27 May 2011, at 00:04, Adriano Henrique de Almeida wrote:
Wow... very good to know that the code exists!
2011/5/26 Jim Webber j...@neotechnology.com
This code exists, but isn't yet QA'd or documented.
It will appear
This code exists, but isn't yet QA'd or documented.
It will appear in the M03 release, but won't be QA'd and documented until the
M04 release.
Jim
On 26 May 2011, at 18:51, Peter Neubauer wrote:
Yeah.
just saw today some really cool stuff from Jacob in this direction. Stay
tuned - it's lab
Hey,
You need to add the pattern matching library since it's not shipped by default
with neo4j. The ivy dependency is:
dependency org=org.neo4j name=neo4j-graph-matching rev=0.8/
which I think translates into maven as:
dependency
groupidorg.neo4j/groupid
Hi Peter,
How does then the compact parameter work in other Accept headers than
application/json work?
I think Ian's saying it's not to be used in the Accept header. He's saying
identify the *variant* through a different URI.
Since this is a representation that compacts in
JSON, maybe the
The Koans have a section on pattern matching, see:
https://github.com/jimwebber/neo4j-tutorial
Jim
On 20 May 2011, at 18:09, noppanit wrote:
I'm learning to use PatternRelationship to look for a pattern of
relationships in the dataset. I was wondering that is there any example? I
only found
Hi Peter,
If you're going to make it really compact, also ditch the self relationship
perhaps.
Jim
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what abt rel types, dirs and id's?
Then we can get back subgraphs with full node and rel info via traversers.
Switch back to the non-compact format if you want them.
and if we go compact we should either ditch whitespace as well or support
gzipped output.
That's a further optimisation.
Hi Paul,
Neo4j server is just a remote API around the database engine with a useful
(and pretty) Web admin tool. It doesn't fundamentally change the database,
since the database is still embedded though it's embedded in our process
rather than yours.
Which means you can run HA whether your
Hi Chris,
The Neo4j tutorial that Ian Robinson and I are working on has a (PowerPoint)
slide deck associated with it.
See: https://github.com/jimwebber/neo4j-tutorial
Jim
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In addition to what Jake just said about splitting this thread apart, I'd like
to bring up what Rick suggested about getting together to thrash this out.
Can you guys think about when we might want a skype call for this? We have to
take into account timezones to cover from CET through to PST
Hi Shaunak,
Interesting domain. So I guess you'd like a relationship which goes:
+--console--BOOTBOX_FOR--+
| |
+---+
Which I find is an interesting model for your domain. It will match the
physical infrastructure
Hi Stephen,
I think the network IO you've measured is consistent with the rest of the
behaviour your've described.
What I'm thinking is that you're simply reaching the limits of create
transaction-create a node-complete transaction-flush to filesystem (that is,
you're basically testing disk
Hi Jose,
1-i have 2 database (graph), I need to get information from one database
to another without having to take the target database instance of
another database.
One reasonable way of doing this is to use the HA configuration. The HA
protocol will keep two (or many) instances of the
Hi Jose,
thanks you very much for your answer, but do not know where I can find
some example about de HA.
The main wiki page is here:
http://wiki.neo4j.org/content/High_Availability_Cluster
And the (milestone) docs are here:
http://docs.neo4j.org/chunked/milestone/server-ha.html
Jim
Hi Michael,
Just in case we're not talking about the same kind of streaming --
when I think streaming, I think streaming uploads, streaming
downloads, etc.
I'm thinking chunked transfers. That is the server starts sending a response
and then eventually terminates it when the whole response
Hi Georg,
It would at least have to be an iterator over pages - otherwise the results
tend to be fine-grained and so horribly inefficient for sending over a network.
Jim
On 22 Apr 2011, at 18:24, Georg Summer wrote:
I might be a little newbish here, but then why not an Iterator?
The
Hi Kevin,
I can replicate your problem. The way I worked around this was to use Maven
2.2.1 rather than Maven 3.0.x. Then I get a green build for community edition.
I'll poke the devteam and see what Maven versions they're running on.
Jim
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This is indeed a good dialogue. The pagination versus streaming was something
I'd previously had in my mind as orthogonal issues, but I like the direction
this is going. Let's break it down to fundamentals:
As a remote client, I want to be just as rich and performant as a local client.
Hi guys,
A while ago we were discussing using non-graph native backend for graph
operations. I've finally gotten around to writing up my thoughts on the thread
here:
http://jim.webber.name/2011/04/21/e2f48ace-7dba-4709-8600-f29da3491cb4.aspx
As always, I'd value your thoughts and feedback.
Hi Kevin,
The install location shouldn't make any difference.
Can I ask when you downloaded the package? We had a snaffu with our packaging
mechanism just after we released. That was picked up and fixed, but there's a
chance you might have a copy of the dodgy package.
Jim
Hi José,
Please feel free to add to the wiki. We've had a problem with spammers
recently, so if you run into permissions problems please shout.
Jim
On 22 Mar 2011, at 20:19, jdbjun...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, going through the neo4j documentation I found some examples of how
access neo4j api
Hi Javier,
I've just checked and that's in our list of stuff we really should do because
it annoys us that it's not there.
No promises, but we do intend to work through at least some of that list for
the 1.4 releases.
Jim
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I'd like to propose that we put this functionality into the plugin
(https://github.com/skanjila/gremlin-translation-plugin) that Peter and I
are currently working on, thoughts?
I'm thinking that, if we do it, it should be handled through content
negotiation. That is if you ask for
Hello,
Multi-tenant in a graph can be easy: simply use a different sub-graph for each
tenant and let your application code bind to you a specific subgraph.
If you want to go to the next step and have physically separate databases,
that's harder. Are there reasons for wanting to do this, such
Hey Jake,
[with my RESTafarian hat on]
Will make the server move management stuff to that URI, and webadmin will
follow suit. So for your case, you should be able to do:
org.neo4j.server.webadmin.data.uri=/neo4jdb/db/data/
org.neo4j.server.webadmin.management.uri=/neo4jdb/db/manage/
I
Hi Saikat,
Savas Parastatidis and Bradford Stephens had a bit of a twitter exchange about
this. And Emil visits Seattle reasonably often too.
Seems there's at least the four of you that could get some graph-beers on.
Jim
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