Re: [DISCUSS] Renaming Mesos Slave
Hi Adam, 1. Mesos Agent 2. Mesos Agent 3. No but is master-agent a logical coupling? 4. +1 Dave, documentation, then API, then rest of the code base. We should also make sure that we only have to change once and that we cover all the connotations that might offend. On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Dave Lester d...@davelester.org wrote: Hi Adam, I've been using Master/Worker in presentations for the past 9 months and it hasn't led to any confusion. 1. Mesos worker 2. Mesos worker 3. No 4. Documentation, then API with a full deprecation cycle Dave On Mon, Jun 1, 2015, at 02:18 PM, Adam Bordelon wrote: There has been much discussion about finding a less offensive name than Slave, and many of these thoughts have been captured in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MESOS-1478 I would like to open up the discussion on this topic for one week, and if we cannot arrive at a lazy consensus, I will draft a proposal from the discussion and call for a VOTE. Here are the questions I would like us to answer: 1. What should we call the Mesos Slave node/host/machine? 2. What should we call the mesos-slave process (could be the same)? 3. Do we need to rename Mesos Master too? Another topic worth discussing is the deprecation process, but we don't necessarily need to decide on that at the same time as deciding the new name(s). 4. How will we phase in the new name and phase out the old name? Please voice your thoughts and opinions below. Thanks! -Adam- P.S. My personal thoughts: 1. Mesos Worker [Node] 2. Mesos Worker or Agent 3. No 4. Carefully
Re: [DISCUSS] Renaming Mesos Slave
Hi Adam, 1. Mesos Worker 2. Mesos Worker 3. No 4. Carefully. Should take care the compatible when upgrade. On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 2:50 AM, Dave Lester d...@davelester.org wrote: Hi Adam, I've been using Master/Worker in presentations for the past 9 months and it hasn't led to any confusion. 1. Mesos worker 2. Mesos worker 3. No 4. Documentation, then API with a full deprecation cycle Dave On Mon, Jun 1, 2015, at 02:18 PM, Adam Bordelon wrote: There has been much discussion about finding a less offensive name than Slave, and many of these thoughts have been captured in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MESOS-1478 I would like to open up the discussion on this topic for one week, and if we cannot arrive at a lazy consensus, I will draft a proposal from the discussion and call for a VOTE. Here are the questions I would like us to answer: 1. What should we call the Mesos Slave node/host/machine? 2. What should we call the mesos-slave process (could be the same)? 3. Do we need to rename Mesos Master too? Another topic worth discussing is the deprecation process, but we don't necessarily need to decide on that at the same time as deciding the new name(s). 4. How will we phase in the new name and phase out the old name? Please voice your thoughts and opinions below. Thanks! -Adam- P.S. My personal thoughts: 1. Mesos Worker [Node] 2. Mesos Worker or Agent 3. No 4. Carefully -- Best Regards, Haosdent Huang
Re: [DISCUSS] Renaming Mesos Slave
My $0.02... The use of the word Worker is confusing. This entity has several responsibilities, including, maintaining connectivity to master, managing and monitoring the executors, sending status updates, and other future endeavors such as autonomously determining actions for resource oversubscriptions, etc. That is, the entity (so far called the slave) has some intelligence and autonomous behavior associated with it. The word Worker, in my mind, gives it the attribute of performing a single purpose action of executing something for the Master. Where as, the word agent attributes a bit more intelligence to it, one of which is to execute executors/tasks/containers. Worker has more similarities to executor than to a Mesos slave. So, here's my suggestion: 1. Mesos Agent (node) 2. Mesos Agent (daemon/process) 3. No 4. Via deprecation, documentation, etc. On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 1:26 PM, Connor Doyle con...@mesosphere.io wrote: James, I'll just say one thing: The proposed change is for the benefit of those who _do_ have a problem with the current name. Of course you are free from having to empathize, but why block the change if there is support? Finding out if there is wider support is the purpose of this thread. -- Connor On Jun 2, 2015, at 11:43, CCAAT cc...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: On 06/02/2015 11:58 AM, craig mcmillan wrote: not being from a slavery oppressed minority i'm not in a position to offer an opinion on the experience of the use of 'slave' in CS terminology, and the definition of 'minion' doesn't seem overly more empowering however : dom / sub is more fun and a little bit cheeky :c Ah. The nightclub scene is more salient; so Berlin is your favourite city? What if the roles reverse; how does that map to mesos, clustering or parallel efforts? For humorous reasons, I like Mommy -- daddy so as to promote females to participate in mesos? I say all of this, as my grandfather, who later on in life became a pharmacist and drug store owner, was a slave in his youth. I find it none offense. The only thing I find offense is those not willing to fight to overcome their circumstances. As an over educated person, I find the entire historical education experienced much more offending than something that has existed in every culture that is more than a few hundred years old. For me, obtaining education and then social status, from elites, is an ugly process. Now, here in the USA, we have graduates in debt up to there eyes and often no jobs. You want to address a social-ill, why not just get rid of tenure and put the pedantics on the same hire-fire master-slave relationship graduates are under? The past is just that; the past, learn from it and move on. Take actions about TODAY and tomorrow. Stop wallowing in the self pitty of what other did hundreds or thousands of years ago! WE still have wage-slaves, sex-slaves and many forms of human traffic that are or are very, very close to slavery. Try to show your independence, as part of a military collective; commander-slave. How about elite-slave? politician-slave? Ivy_league--community_college for names? As a solution, why don't we make these relationships 'user defined variables'? Surely that would be great fun and prepare us for supporting languages such as Haskell in a fun and ambitious function sort of way? [1] James [1] http://lesswrong.com/lw/k1o/botworld_a_cellular_automaton_for_studying/
Re: [DISCUSS] Renaming Mesos Slave
-1 for the name change. The master/slave terms in Mesos accurately describe the relationship between the components using common engineering terms that predate modern computing. Human slavery is an abomination, but then so is murder. Would you have us eliminate all references to kill in the code? -- Paul On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 12:53 PM, haosdent haosd...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam, 1. Mesos Worker 2. Mesos Worker 3. No 4. Carefully. Should take care the compatible when upgrade. On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 2:50 AM, Dave Lester d...@davelester.org wrote: Hi Adam, I've been using Master/Worker in presentations for the past 9 months and it hasn't led to any confusion. 1. Mesos worker 2. Mesos worker 3. No 4. Documentation, then API with a full deprecation cycle Dave On Mon, Jun 1, 2015, at 02:18 PM, Adam Bordelon wrote: There has been much discussion about finding a less offensive name than Slave, and many of these thoughts have been captured in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MESOS-1478 I would like to open up the discussion on this topic for one week, and if we cannot arrive at a lazy consensus, I will draft a proposal from the discussion and call for a VOTE. Here are the questions I would like us to answer: 1. What should we call the Mesos Slave node/host/machine? 2. What should we call the mesos-slave process (could be the same)? 3. Do we need to rename Mesos Master too? Another topic worth discussing is the deprecation process, but we don't necessarily need to decide on that at the same time as deciding the new name(s). 4. How will we phase in the new name and phase out the old name? Please voice your thoughts and opinions below. Thanks! -Adam- P.S. My personal thoughts: 1. Mesos Worker [Node] 2. Mesos Worker or Agent 3. No 4. Carefully -- Best Regards, Haosdent Huang -- -- Paul Brett
Re: [DISCUSS] Renaming Mesos Slave
1.Mesos Resource-Agent 2.mesos resource-Agent 3.Mesos Resource-Scheduler 4.Eventually Thanks Regards, Pradeep On 2 June 2015 at 15:39, Scott Rankin sran...@motus.com wrote: +1 1. Mesos Worker 2. mesos-worker 3. No 4. Change the docs as soon as the new command is available, perhaps provide a symlink for a while. From: Adam Bordelon Reply-To: user@mesos.apache.org Date: Monday, June 1, 2015 at 5:18 PM To: dev, user@mesos.apache.org Subject: [DISCUSS] Renaming Mesos Slave There has been much discussion about finding a less offensive name than Slave, and many of these thoughts have been captured in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MESOS-1478 I would like to open up the discussion on this topic for one week, and if we cannot arrive at a lazy consensus, I will draft a proposal from the discussion and call for a VOTE. Here are the questions I would like us to answer: 1. What should we call the Mesos Slave node/host/machine? 2. What should we call the mesos-slave process (could be the same)? 3. Do we need to rename Mesos Master too? Another topic worth discussing is the deprecation process, but we don't necessarily need to decide on that at the same time as deciding the new name(s). 4. How will we phase in the new name and phase out the old name? Please voice your thoughts and opinions below. Thanks! -Adam- P.S. My personal thoughts: 1. Mesos Worker [Node] 2. Mesos Worker or Agent 3. No 4. Carefully This email message contains information that Motus, LLC considers confidential and/or proprietary, or may later designate as confidential and proprietary. It is intended only for use of the individual or entity named above and should not be forwarded to any other persons or entities without the express consent of Motus, LLC, nor should it be used for any purpose other than in the course of any potential or actual business relationship with Motus, LLC. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify sender immediately and destroy the original message. Internal Revenue Service regulations require that certain types of written advice include a disclaimer. To the extent the preceding message contains advice relating to a Federal tax issue, unless expressly stated otherwise the advice is not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used by the recipient or any other taxpayer, for the purpose of avoiding Federal tax penalties, and was not written to support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or matter discussed herein.
Re: [DISCUSS] Renaming Mesos Slave
+1 1. Mesos Worker 2. mesos-worker 3. No 4. Change the docs as soon as the new command is available, perhaps provide a symlink for a while. From: Adam Bordelon Reply-To: user@mesos.apache.orgmailto:user@mesos.apache.org Date: Monday, June 1, 2015 at 5:18 PM To: dev, user@mesos.apache.orgmailto:user@mesos.apache.org Subject: [DISCUSS] Renaming Mesos Slave There has been much discussion about finding a less offensive name than Slave, and many of these thoughts have been captured in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MESOS-1478 I would like to open up the discussion on this topic for one week, and if we cannot arrive at a lazy consensus, I will draft a proposal from the discussion and call for a VOTE. Here are the questions I would like us to answer: 1. What should we call the Mesos Slave node/host/machine? 2. What should we call the mesos-slave process (could be the same)? 3. Do we need to rename Mesos Master too? Another topic worth discussing is the deprecation process, but we don't necessarily need to decide on that at the same time as deciding the new name(s). 4. How will we phase in the new name and phase out the old name? Please voice your thoughts and opinions below. Thanks! -Adam- P.S. My personal thoughts: 1. Mesos Worker [Node] 2. Mesos Worker or Agent 3. No 4. Carefully This email message contains information that Motus, LLC considers confidential and/or proprietary, or may later designate as confidential and proprietary. It is intended only for use of the individual or entity named above and should not be forwarded to any other persons or entities without the express consent of Motus, LLC, nor should it be used for any purpose other than in the course of any potential or actual business relationship with Motus, LLC. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify sender immediately and destroy the original message. Internal Revenue Service regulations require that certain types of written advice include a disclaimer. To the extent the preceding message contains advice relating to a Federal tax issue, unless expressly stated otherwise the advice is not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used by the recipient or any other taxpayer, for the purpose of avoiding Federal tax penalties, and was not written to support the promotion or marketing of any transaction or matter discussed herein.
Re: [DISCUSS] Renaming Mesos Slave
1) Mesos Worker 2) Mesos Worker 3) no, I'm OK with Mesos Master 4) announce the change as part of a new release and deprecate the old names publicly; this may also be a good time to consider crafting an official deprecation policy for the project so we're transparent with how deprecation will work in the future On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Connor Doyle con...@mesosphere.io wrote: +1 1. Mesos Worker [node/host/machine] 2. Mesos Worker [process] 3. No, master/worker seems to address the issue with less changes. 4. Begin using the new name ASAP, add a disambiguation to the docs, and change old references over time. Fixing the official name, even before changes are in place, would be a good first step. -- Connor On Jun 1, 2015, at 14:18, Adam Bordelon a...@mesosphere.io wrote: There has been much discussion about finding a less offensive name than Slave, and many of these thoughts have been captured in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MESOS-1478 I would like to open up the discussion on this topic for one week, and if we cannot arrive at a lazy consensus, I will draft a proposal from the discussion and call for a VOTE. Here are the questions I would like us to answer: 1. What should we call the Mesos Slave node/host/machine? 2. What should we call the mesos-slave process (could be the same)? 3. Do we need to rename Mesos Master too? Another topic worth discussing is the deprecation process, but we don't necessarily need to decide on that at the same time as deciding the new name(s). 4. How will we phase in the new name and phase out the old name? Please voice your thoughts and opinions below. Thanks! -Adam- P.S. My personal thoughts: 1. Mesos Worker [Node] 2. Mesos Worker or Agent 3. No 4. Carefully -- Cheers, Chris Aniszczyk http://aniszczyk.org +1 512 961 6719
Re: [DISCUSS] Renaming Mesos Slave
On 06/01/2015 04:18 PM, Adam Bordelon wrote: There has been much discussion about finding a less offensive name than Slave, and many of these thoughts have been captured in https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MESOS-1478 I find political correctness rather nausiating. Folks should stop trying to apologies for what others did, often hundreds of years ago. I was not part of that. The advanced education system, the political system and the current wealth control systems around the globe, are in fact and indeed Master-Slave relationships; so why cleanse this notion prematurely? Master-slave has a rich history in the entire field of compuatational resources and electronics. That usage has nothing to do with social conventions and failings of the past. So, if you want to do something effective for those of us less fortunate, why not use terms like I would like to open up the discussion on this topic for one week, and if we cannot arrive at a lazy consensus, I will draft a proposal from the discussion and call for a VOTE. Here are the questions I would like us to answer: 1. What should we call the Mesos Slave node/host/machine? 2. What should we call the mesos-slave process (could be the same)? Elite-taxpayer or Lawyer-citizen or Billionare-wager or Professor-debtor ? Something more apropo? 3. Do we need to rename Mesos Master too? The concept of a master has been around ever since (2) males or more graced this planet (your theories of soccial evilutoin may vary but they are irrelevant). Commander? General ? Generalisimo? Master_Chief Warlord? Why not get rid of the entire Apache evironment why you are at it? This line of reasoning is nothing but *STUPID* You cannot errase the history of the warrior existence of mankind. Nor should any today apologize for historical convention. WE did not commit any bad deeds before we were born, so just get over it! Another topic worth discussing is the deprecation process, but we don't necessarily need to decide on that at the same time as deciding the new name(s). 4. How will we phase in the new name and phase out the old name? Please voice your thoughts and opinions below. Thanks! -Adam- P.S. My personal thoughts: 1. Mesos Worker [Node] 2. Mesos Worker or Agent 3. No 4. Carefully This is the sadest thread I have ever read. James
Re: [DISCUSS] Renaming Mesos Slave
On 06/02/2015 11:30 AM, Alexander Gallego wrote: 1. mesos-worker 2. mesos-worker Currently, my (limited) understanding of the codebase for mesos, is that slave does not have any autonomy, is 100% controlled by the Master, hence the clear nomenclature of Master-Slave. If we are to migrate to 'mesos-worker' this implies that the worker has 'some standing' some rights? The worker can leave the mesos and move on (attach) to another supervisor? Actually I like this concept, since mesos is not likely to be the only master in a data center, maybe we need to begin thinking about node (migration) to other masters in a heterogeneous data-center ? Ah! Eureka now I see what is really going on; mesos leadership is preparing for other masters to migrate node-worker hardware to other cluster codes, in the spirit of heterogeneous, politically_correct, cluster compuations? I see, we would not want to offend any other software development team; after all opensource is opensource.. Also, what happens to mesos clustering codes if folks decided to experiment with self modifying codes; like the code found in stuxnet? Are those still worker codes? Are they subservient to the mesos after they are instantiated? We have the family of self-modifying codes to contend with in the future; surely they are going to find a path to these clusters, whether the developers like it or not. How shall the naming classifications match reality in the future? I'd suggest some thought as to where mesos is heading, as changes in nomenclature and diversions, no matter how well-intended, from established jargon can cause loads of unforeseen problems if not lead to obscurity. For example when somebody has work in a multi-processor hardware development group, you either have master-slave relationships, voter, or some non-sensical, if not exotic, nomenclature that does not withstand the ravages of competing codes over time. A historical review might be in order for parallel efforts; look at how divergent naming schemes have not survived.. I doubt seriously this is the first venture into finding a more accurate and alternative naming scheme. A less accurate scheme; surely many exist, as we've seen a few in this thread. Change the names as you like. But, but be mindful that your new nomenclature is sensical and exudes forethought of the futuristic feature sets to be found in parallel processing, both hardware and software. hth, James
