Re: Help needed moving from 2.1.11

[Flynn, Peter]

On 06/01/16 17:49, Mark H. Wood wrote:
> When I first looked at Cocoon 3, I thought it was more like a return
> to Cocoon's roots, clearing away a lot of stuff that had accumulated
> and concentrating on the pipeline.

I should have another look

> It's quite true that, without intense study of what documentation
> there is, it is very difficult to find any mention of how to configure
> it with XML, but the XML configurator is still in there.

Configuring it with XML would be useful (eg sitemap.xmap) but what I
meant was that Cocoon primary task was (is?) to serve XML documents via
XSLT as {text|xml|html|...}


///Peter

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Re: Help needed moving from 2.1.11

[gelo1234]

Hi,

There is no need to configure it in any special way. All defaults are out
of the box and are mostly sane (what every developer needs).
C3 is considered to be more a RESTful framework not only a simple XML
distribution system.
Most sitemap.xmaps work ok.

We have taken some steps into moving our app from 2.0.5dev to 3.0 and with
some tweaking it worked fine! Check out the latest C3 snapshots from
repository.
There are sample artifacts for many-blocks and only one block configuration
(simple web app).

Greetings,
Greg


2016-01-07 10:18 GMT+01:00 Flynn, Peter :

> On 06/01/16 17:49, Mark H. Wood wrote:
> > When I first looked at Cocoon 3, I thought it was more like a return
> > to Cocoon's roots, clearing away a lot of stuff that had accumulated
> > and concentrating on the pipeline.
>
> I should have another look
>
> > It's quite true that, without intense study of what documentation
> > there is, it is very difficult to find any mention of how to configure
> > it with XML, but the XML configurator is still in there.
>
> Configuring it with XML would be useful (eg sitemap.xmap) but what I
> meant was that Cocoon primary task was (is?) to serve XML documents via
> XSLT as {text|xml|html|...}
>
>
> ///Peter
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
>
>

Re: Help needed moving from 2.1.11

[Christopher Schultz]

Peter,

On 1/6/16 11:59 AM, Flynn, Peter wrote:
> On 06/01/16 14:18, Christopher Schultz wrote:
> 
>> Moving from Tomcat 5 on (presumably) an older Java to a newer version
>> should not be difficult at all. Is there a reason to move to Tomcat 6
>> and not all the way up to Tomcat 8? Tomcat 6 will be EOL very soon.[1]
> 
> Tomcat 6 is all that CentOS6 provides in their repos.

Yeah, it's a shame they are about to be *3* versions behind. Sad.

> Sadly we no longer have the luxury of time to build stuff from scratch.

No need to build anything from scratch. Download the tarball and unpack.
Installation is done. You can even run multiple versions side-by-side
and switch back and forth changing nothing but an environment variable.

>> If you are going to migrate, you may as well go all the way.
> 
> Maybe one day.
> 
>> My experience with a Cocoon-only deployment on Tomcat 5 moving all the
>> way up to Tomcat 8 (I went version by version and wasted a whole lot of
>> time doing so) was basically just drop the WAR file I already had into
>> Tomcat's deployment directory and everything worked exactly as expected.
>> (This included incremental upgrades from Java 1.5 to Java 1.8 as well).
> 
> Yes, dropping my existing cocoon.war file into the new machine works
> fine, just it's slow and I'm sure the .war file is full of cruft we
> never use.

Slow... how? Slow to start? Slow all over? Tomcat didn't get many more
times more complicated between Tomcat 5 and Tomcat 6. It's not like
upgrading from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 (I chose that analogy to
reinforce the idea that Tomcat 6 is oold).

>> I have a relatively simple Cocoon deployment with only a few dozen
>> matchers in my pipeline, and two or three separate sitemaps. I also have
>> a custom RequestParameterModule, but of course that wouldn't be
>> sensitive to a Tomcat upgrade.
> 
> We have 34 directories, many with subdirectories; 47 sitemap.xmaps in
> all. And 15GB of XML text.

Shouldn't be a problem, assuming it's on the same hardware. Tomcat 7 is
a lot more efficient and is missing some of the weirdness of Tomcat 6.
Tomcat 8 is even better. Please reconsider.

>> My advice would be to put the latest Java and the latest Tomcat on a
>> test server and drop your existing application's WAR in there and test
>> everything. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how painless it is.
> 
> All that is done, fortunately. That part of it was never really a problem.

Well, your original question was "I want to upgrade; any suggestions"?
so I responded with suggestions. If you're already done the work... what
are you actually asking?

>> As for Cocoon upgrade suggestions, others have made those already in
>> this thread. Honestly, if it were me, I'd upgrade Java/Tomcat first and
>> make sure everything works, and then focus on upgrading Cocoon.
> 
> If I upgrade manually to Tomcat 8 it's going to break all the directory
> changes and control software setups that RH-based systems expect, which
> will create work for my ops and my staff because it will be different
> from all the other Tomcat servers around here. Unfortunately.

I understand. You should petition CentOS to provide newer Tomcat
versions. Amazon Linux's package repos (yum-based, RHEL-compatible) all
support up to Tomcat 8. Supporting only up to Tomcat 6 is ... deeply
disappointing.

> It's a pity that Cocoon has strayed so far from its original task of
> serving XML via XSLT. In fact it's not at all clear to me what problem
> Cocoon 3 is intended to solve. At the moment it looks more like a
> development playground or sandbox for Java architects (in itself a
> valuable thing; I wish there were more of them) than a production
> application solving a business or social requirement. It's basically way
> too much Java and nowhere near enough XML.

-chris

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Re: Help needed moving from 2.1.11

[gelo1234]

>> If I upgrade manually to Tomcat 8 it's going to break all the directory
>> changes and control software setups that RH-based systems expect, which
>> will create work for my ops and my staff because it will be different
>> from all the other Tomcat servers around here. Unfortunately.

> I understand. You should petition CentOS to provide newer Tomcat
>versions. Amazon Linux's package repos (yum-based, RHEL-compatible) all
>support up to Tomcat 8. Supporting only up to Tomcat 6 is ... deeply
>disappointing.

AFAIK, in standard C3 project template there is a Maven config to use Cargo
plugin,
to run ANY kind of Application Server/Container/Web Engine. There are
plenty options,
and of course Tomcat 8.x is one of them.
Go take a look:
https://codehaus-cargo.github.io/cargo/Home.html

Greetings,
Greg

2016-01-07 14:19 GMT+01:00 Christopher Schultz :

> Peter,
>
> On 1/6/16 11:59 AM, Flynn, Peter wrote:
> > On 06/01/16 14:18, Christopher Schultz wrote:
> >
> >> Moving from Tomcat 5 on (presumably) an older Java to a newer version
> >> should not be difficult at all. Is there a reason to move to Tomcat 6
> >> and not all the way up to Tomcat 8? Tomcat 6 will be EOL very soon.[1]
> >
> > Tomcat 6 is all that CentOS6 provides in their repos.
>
> Yeah, it's a shame they are about to be *3* versions behind. Sad.
>
> > Sadly we no longer have the luxury of time to build stuff from scratch.
>
> No need to build anything from scratch. Download the tarball and unpack.
> Installation is done. You can even run multiple versions side-by-side
> and switch back and forth changing nothing but an environment variable.
>
> >> If you are going to migrate, you may as well go all the way.
> >
> > Maybe one day.
> >
> >> My experience with a Cocoon-only deployment on Tomcat 5 moving all the
> >> way up to Tomcat 8 (I went version by version and wasted a whole lot of
> >> time doing so) was basically just drop the WAR file I already had into
> >> Tomcat's deployment directory and everything worked exactly as expected.
> >> (This included incremental upgrades from Java 1.5 to Java 1.8 as well).
> >
> > Yes, dropping my existing cocoon.war file into the new machine works
> > fine, just it's slow and I'm sure the .war file is full of cruft we
> > never use.
>
> Slow... how? Slow to start? Slow all over? Tomcat didn't get many more
> times more complicated between Tomcat 5 and Tomcat 6. It's not like
> upgrading from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 (I chose that analogy to
> reinforce the idea that Tomcat 6 is oold).
>
> >> I have a relatively simple Cocoon deployment with only a few dozen
> >> matchers in my pipeline, and two or three separate sitemaps. I also have
> >> a custom RequestParameterModule, but of course that wouldn't be
> >> sensitive to a Tomcat upgrade.
> >
> > We have 34 directories, many with subdirectories; 47 sitemap.xmaps in
> > all. And 15GB of XML text.
>
> Shouldn't be a problem, assuming it's on the same hardware. Tomcat 7 is
> a lot more efficient and is missing some of the weirdness of Tomcat 6.
> Tomcat 8 is even better. Please reconsider.
>
> >> My advice would be to put the latest Java and the latest Tomcat on a
> >> test server and drop your existing application's WAR in there and test
> >> everything. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how painless it
> is.
> >
> > All that is done, fortunately. That part of it was never really a
> problem.
>
> Well, your original question was "I want to upgrade; any suggestions"?
> so I responded with suggestions. If you're already done the work... what
> are you actually asking?
>
> >> As for Cocoon upgrade suggestions, others have made those already in
> >> this thread. Honestly, if it were me, I'd upgrade Java/Tomcat first and
> >> make sure everything works, and then focus on upgrading Cocoon.
> >
> > If I upgrade manually to Tomcat 8 it's going to break all the directory
> > changes and control software setups that RH-based systems expect, which
> > will create work for my ops and my staff because it will be different
> > from all the other Tomcat servers around here. Unfortunately.
>
> I understand. You should petition CentOS to provide newer Tomcat
> versions. Amazon Linux's package repos (yum-based, RHEL-compatible) all
> support up to Tomcat 8. Supporting only up to Tomcat 6 is ... deeply
> disappointing.
>
> > It's a pity that Cocoon has strayed so far from its original task of
> > serving XML via XSLT. In fact it's not at all clear to me what problem
> > Cocoon 3 is intended to solve. At the moment it looks more like a
> > development playground or sandbox for Java architects (in itself a
> > valuable thing; I wish there were more of them) than a production
> > application solving a business or social requirement. It's basically way
> > too much Java and nowhere near enough XML.
>
> -chris
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org

Re: Help needed moving from 2.1.11

[warrell harries]

Hi Peter,

I would recommend moving to 2.12 first (and probably staying there).

IMHO 2.2 isn't worth the candle and 3.0 misses the point of using Cocoon in
the first place.

I have a similar set-up as you although I use a blocks based build so that
my 'applications' are seperate from the core.

I would be happy to help subject to negotiation :)

Best regards,

Warrell

On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 at 11:34 Flynn, Peter  wrote:

> ...I think.
>
> I have an existing Cocoon service running 2.1.11 under Tomcat5 and
> Apache in CentOS5 on a very old server, and I now have a new server
> running CentOS6, Apache2, and Tomcat6 that I want to migrate to, but I
> am held up by my lack of understanding of what has been happening to
> Coocon, and I'm an XML person, not a Java person :-)
>
> The existing service is not an "application" in the normal sense: it's
> just a large collection of directories under /var/www/xml, each with its
> own sitemap.xmap, serving a lot of XML documents as HTML via XSLT. Many
> of the documents are in fact HTML, retrieved in real time from elsewhere
> in our site using Tidy in order to force xhtml or HTML5.  The cocoon.war
> is the stock 2.1.11 with no mods except the substitution of saxon9.jar
> so we can use XSLT2.
>
> I would like to be able to update all this to 2.2, and eventually to
> Cocoon 3.0, but the lack of a prebuilt .war file means I am at a loss as
> to how to do this. The existing service simply serves XML converted with
> XSLT2, nothing more: there are no requirements for authentication (it's
> all public), templates, forms, or FOP (we use XSLT2 and XeLaTeX for
> PDFs), and no "applications" as such. The stock 2.1.11 cocoon.war file
> undoubtedly includes vast amounts of stuff we never even go near using,
> but I have no idea what to exclude or include when it comes to building
> a new one in 2.2 or 3.0. The block examples in the 2.2 Tutorials
> *appear* to be vastly more complex than is needed for what we want to do
> (although this may just be my ignorance: in fact Cocoon 1.x always did
> everything we needed!).
>
> A further requirement is obviously robust and working versions of Ant or
> Maven, as in the past I have never been able to get either of these to
> work on the platform available (there have always been unresolvable
> dependencies for libraries simply unavailable). Has anyone ever
> implemented Cocoon 2.2 or 3 on CentOS6?
>
> I have a small budget for help with this, either for training or
> consultancy or both (preferably both so that I can learn). Or do I just
> pick up the current 2.1.11 cocoon.war file and drop it into the new
> system and leave it alone?
>
> ///Peter
> --
> Peter Flynn | Academic & Collaborative Technologies
> | University College Cork IT Services | ☎ +353 21 490 2609
> | ✉ pfl...@ucc.ie |  www.ucc.ie
>

Re: Help needed moving from 2.1.11

[Christopher Schultz]

Peter,

On 1/6/16 6:33 AM, Flynn, Peter wrote:
> ...I think.
> 
> I have an existing Cocoon service running 2.1.11 under Tomcat5 and
> Apache in CentOS5 on a very old server, and I now have a new server
> running CentOS6, Apache2, and Tomcat6 that I want to migrate to, but I
> am held up by my lack of understanding of what has been happening to
> Coocon, and I'm an XML person, not a Java person :-)
> 
> The existing service is not an "application" in the normal sense: it's
> just a large collection of directories under /var/www/xml, each with its
> own sitemap.xmap, serving a lot of XML documents as HTML via XSLT. Many
> of the documents are in fact HTML, retrieved in real time from elsewhere
> in our site using Tidy in order to force xhtml or HTML5.  The cocoon.war
> is the stock 2.1.11 with no mods except the substitution of saxon9.jar
> so we can use XSLT2.
> 
> I would like to be able to update all this to 2.2, and eventually to
> Cocoon 3.0, but the lack of a prebuilt .war file means I am at a loss as
> to how to do this. The existing service simply serves XML converted with
> XSLT2, nothing more: there are no requirements for authentication (it's
> all public), templates, forms, or FOP (we use XSLT2 and XeLaTeX for
> PDFs), and no "applications" as such. The stock 2.1.11 cocoon.war file
> undoubtedly includes vast amounts of stuff we never even go near using,
> but I have no idea what to exclude or include when it comes to building
> a new one in 2.2 or 3.0. The block examples in the 2.2 Tutorials
> *appear* to be vastly more complex than is needed for what we want to do
> (although this may just be my ignorance: in fact Cocoon 1.x always did
> everything we needed!).
> 
> A further requirement is obviously robust and working versions of Ant or
> Maven, as in the past I have never been able to get either of these to
> work on the platform available (there have always been unresolvable
> dependencies for libraries simply unavailable). Has anyone ever
> implemented Cocoon 2.2 or 3 on CentOS6?
> 
> I have a small budget for help with this, either for training or
> consultancy or both (preferably both so that I can learn). Or do I just
> pick up the current 2.1.11 cocoon.war file and drop it into the new
> system and leave it alone?

Moving from Tomcat 5 on (presumably) an older Java to a newer version
should not be difficult at all. Is there a reason to move to Tomcat 6
and not all the way up to Tomcat 8? Tomcat 6 will be EOL very soon.[1]

If you are going to migrate, you may as well go all the way.

My experience with a Cocoon-only deployment on Tomcat 5 moving all the
way up to Tomcat 8 (I went version by version and wasted a whole lot of
time doing so) was basically just drop the WAR file I already had into
Tomcat's deployment directory and everything worked exactly as expected.
(This included incremental upgrades from Java 1.5 to Java 1.8 as well).

I have a relatively simple Cocoon deployment with only a few dozen
matchers in my pipeline, and two or three separate sitemaps. I also have
a custom RequestParameterModule, but of course that wouldn't be
sensitive to a Tomcat upgrade.

My advice would be to put the latest Java and the latest Tomcat on a
test server and drop your existing application's WAR in there and test
everything. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how painless it is.

As for Cocoon upgrade suggestions, others have made those already in
this thread. Honestly, if it were me, I'd upgrade Java/Tomcat first and
make sure everything works, and then focus on upgrading Cocoon.

-chris

[1] http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-60-eol.html

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Re: Help needed moving from 2.1.11

[Mark H. Wood]

On Wed, Jan 06, 2016 at 04:59:23PM +, Flynn, Peter wrote:
[snip]
> It's a pity that Cocoon has strayed so far from its original task of
> serving XML via XSLT. In fact it's not at all clear to me what problem
> Cocoon 3 is intended to solve. At the moment it looks more like a
> development playground or sandbox for Java architects (in itself a
> valuable thing; I wish there were more of them) than a production
> application solving a business or social requirement. It's basically way
> too much Java and nowhere near enough XML.

When I first looked at Cocoon 3, I thought it was more like a return
to Cocoon's roots, clearing away a lot of stuff that had accumulated
and concentrating on the pipeline.

It's quite true that, without intense study of what documentation
there is, it is very difficult to find any mention of how to configure
it with XML, but the XML configurator is still in there.

-- 
Mark H. Wood
Lead Technology Analyst

University Library
Indiana University - Purdue University Indianapolis
755 W. Michigan Street
Indianapolis, IN 46202
317-274-0749
www.ulib.iupui.edu


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Help needed moving from 2.1.11

[Insight 49]

Hi Peter,

I have been using Cocoon 2.12 (or the 2.13 dev brach) for xslt2
transformation work, and agree with Warrell and Christopher -- you do NOT
need to move to 2.2 or 3.0.

Java 8 works with it, but you may need earlier Java versions to build it
(YMMV).

If you want to lighten your production environment, you can easily remove
unused blocks by duplicating the blocks.properties to
local.blocks.properties, then uncommenting the lines you don't need to, for
example: include.block.bsf=false.

You can also tweak the build.properties file in the same way, using
local.build.properties, and put any extra libs in lib > local (these aren't
checked by the jar-checking system, and will be copied over to your final
build or war).

Make sure ANT_HOME is in your classpath, then ./build.sh to build.

You'll notice that the latest cocoon-2.12.x/2.13 dev includes fop-1.0.jar,
in case you want to use it instead of XeLaTeX.

Dan
insigh...@gmail.com

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 7:17 AM, Christopher Schultz <
ch...@christopherschultz.net> wrote:

> Peter,
>
> On 1/6/16 6:33 AM, Flynn, Peter wrote:
> > ...I think.
> >
> > I have an existing Cocoon service running 2.1.11 under Tomcat5 and
> > Apache in CentOS5 on a very old server, and I now have a new server
> > running CentOS6, Apache2, and Tomcat6 that I want to migrate to, but I
> > am held up by my lack of understanding of what has been happening to
> > Coocon, and I'm an XML person, not a Java person :-)
> >
> > The existing service is not an "application" in the normal sense: it's
> > just a large collection of directories under /var/www/xml, each with its
> > own sitemap.xmap, serving a lot of XML documents as HTML via XSLT. Many
> > of the documents are in fact HTML, retrieved in real time from elsewhere
> > in our site using Tidy in order to force xhtml or HTML5.  The cocoon.war
> > is the stock 2.1.11 with no mods except the substitution of saxon9.jar
> > so we can use XSLT2.
> >
> > I would like to be able to update all this to 2.2, and eventually to
> > Cocoon 3.0, but the lack of a prebuilt .war file means I am at a loss as
> > to how to do this. The existing service simply serves XML converted with
> > XSLT2, nothing more: there are no requirements for authentication (it's
> > all public), templates, forms, or FOP (we use XSLT2 and XeLaTeX for
> > PDFs), and no "applications" as such. The stock 2.1.11 cocoon.war file
> > undoubtedly includes vast amounts of stuff we never even go near using,
> > but I have no idea what to exclude or include when it comes to building
> > a new one in 2.2 or 3.0. The block examples in the 2.2 Tutorials
> > *appear* to be vastly more complex than is needed for what we want to do
> > (although this may just be my ignorance: in fact Cocoon 1.x always did
> > everything we needed!).
> >
> > A further requirement is obviously robust and working versions of Ant or
> > Maven, as in the past I have never been able to get either of these to
> > work on the platform available (there have always been unresolvable
> > dependencies for libraries simply unavailable). Has anyone ever
> > implemented Cocoon 2.2 or 3 on CentOS6?
> >
> > I have a small budget for help with this, either for training or
> > consultancy or both (preferably both so that I can learn). Or do I just
> > pick up the current 2.1.11 cocoon.war file and drop it into the new
> > system and leave it alone?
>
> Moving from Tomcat 5 on (presumably) an older Java to a newer version
> should not be difficult at all. Is there a reason to move to Tomcat 6
> and not all the way up to Tomcat 8? Tomcat 6 will be EOL very soon.[1]
>
> If you are going to migrate, you may as well go all the way.
>
> My experience with a Cocoon-only deployment on Tomcat 5 moving all the
> way up to Tomcat 8 (I went version by version and wasted a whole lot of
> time doing so) was basically just drop the WAR file I already had into
> Tomcat's deployment directory and everything worked exactly as expected.
> (This included incremental upgrades from Java 1.5 to Java 1.8 as well).
>
> I have a relatively simple Cocoon deployment with only a few dozen
> matchers in my pipeline, and two or three separate sitemaps. I also have
> a custom RequestParameterModule, but of course that wouldn't be
> sensitive to a Tomcat upgrade.
>
> My advice would be to put the latest Java and the latest Tomcat on a
> test server and drop your existing application's WAR in there and test
> everything. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how painless it is.
>
> As for Cocoon upgrade suggestions, others have made those already in
> this thread. Honestly, if it were me, I'd upgrade Java/Tomcat first and
> make sure everything works, and then focus on upgrading Cocoon.
>
> -chris
>
> [1] http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-60-eol.html
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@cocoon.apache.org
>
>

Re: Help needed moving from 2.1.11

[Andreas Kuehne]

Hi Peter,

I completely agree with Christopher!
I got some 2.1.* applications running and kept up with flow of Java /
jBoss versions. Maybe there had been some issues with the XML helper
jars but I don't remember in details.

Try your luck with CentOS 7, Java 8 and Tomcat 8 ... and come back if
severe problems occur!

Greetings,

Andreas
> Peter,
>
> On 1/6/16 6:33 AM, Flynn, Peter wrote:
>> ...I think.
>>
>> I have an existing Cocoon service running 2.1.11 under Tomcat5 and
>> Apache in CentOS5 on a very old server, and I now have a new server
>> running CentOS6, Apache2, and Tomcat6 that I want to migrate to, but I
>> am held up by my lack of understanding of what has been happening to
>> Coocon, and I'm an XML person, not a Java person :-)
>>
>> The existing service is not an "application" in the normal sense: it's
>> just a large collection of directories under /var/www/xml, each with its
>> own sitemap.xmap, serving a lot of XML documents as HTML via XSLT. Many
>> of the documents are in fact HTML, retrieved in real time from elsewhere
>> in our site using Tidy in order to force xhtml or HTML5.  The cocoon.war
>> is the stock 2.1.11 with no mods except the substitution of saxon9.jar
>> so we can use XSLT2.
>>
>> I would like to be able to update all this to 2.2, and eventually to
>> Cocoon 3.0, but the lack of a prebuilt .war file means I am at a loss as
>> to how to do this. The existing service simply serves XML converted with
>> XSLT2, nothing more: there are no requirements for authentication (it's
>> all public), templates, forms, or FOP (we use XSLT2 and XeLaTeX for
>> PDFs), and no "applications" as such. The stock 2.1.11 cocoon.war file
>> undoubtedly includes vast amounts of stuff we never even go near using,
>> but I have no idea what to exclude or include when it comes to building
>> a new one in 2.2 or 3.0. The block examples in the 2.2 Tutorials
>> *appear* to be vastly more complex than is needed for what we want to do
>> (although this may just be my ignorance: in fact Cocoon 1.x always did
>> everything we needed!).
>>
>> A further requirement is obviously robust and working versions of Ant or
>> Maven, as in the past I have never been able to get either of these to
>> work on the platform available (there have always been unresolvable
>> dependencies for libraries simply unavailable). Has anyone ever
>> implemented Cocoon 2.2 or 3 on CentOS6?
>>
>> I have a small budget for help with this, either for training or
>> consultancy or both (preferably both so that I can learn). Or do I just
>> pick up the current 2.1.11 cocoon.war file and drop it into the new
>> system and leave it alone?
> Moving from Tomcat 5 on (presumably) an older Java to a newer version
> should not be difficult at all. Is there a reason to move to Tomcat 6
> and not all the way up to Tomcat 8? Tomcat 6 will be EOL very soon.[1]
>
> If you are going to migrate, you may as well go all the way.
>
> My experience with a Cocoon-only deployment on Tomcat 5 moving all the
> way up to Tomcat 8 (I went version by version and wasted a whole lot of
> time doing so) was basically just drop the WAR file I already had into
> Tomcat's deployment directory and everything worked exactly as expected.
> (This included incremental upgrades from Java 1.5 to Java 1.8 as well).
>
> I have a relatively simple Cocoon deployment with only a few dozen
> matchers in my pipeline, and two or three separate sitemaps. I also have
> a custom RequestParameterModule, but of course that wouldn't be
> sensitive to a Tomcat upgrade.
>
> My advice would be to put the latest Java and the latest Tomcat on a
> test server and drop your existing application's WAR in there and test
> everything. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how painless it is.
>
> As for Cocoon upgrade suggestions, others have made those already in
> this thread. Honestly, if it were me, I'd upgrade Java/Tomcat first and
> make sure everything works, and then focus on upgrading Cocoon.
>
> -chris
>
> [1] http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-60-eol.html
>
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Re: Help needed moving from 2.1.11

[Flynn, Peter]

On 06/01/16 14:18, Christopher Schultz wrote:

> Moving from Tomcat 5 on (presumably) an older Java to a newer version
> should not be difficult at all. Is there a reason to move to Tomcat 6
> and not all the way up to Tomcat 8? Tomcat 6 will be EOL very soon.[1]

Tomcat 6 is all that CentOS6 provides in their repos.
Sadly we no longer have the luxury of time to build stuff from scratch.

> If you are going to migrate, you may as well go all the way.

Maybe one day.

> My experience with a Cocoon-only deployment on Tomcat 5 moving all the
> way up to Tomcat 8 (I went version by version and wasted a whole lot of
> time doing so) was basically just drop the WAR file I already had into
> Tomcat's deployment directory and everything worked exactly as expected.
> (This included incremental upgrades from Java 1.5 to Java 1.8 as well).

Yes, dropping my existing cocoon.war file into the new machine works
fine, just it's slow and I'm sure the .war file is full of cruft we
never use.

> I have a relatively simple Cocoon deployment with only a few dozen
> matchers in my pipeline, and two or three separate sitemaps. I also have
> a custom RequestParameterModule, but of course that wouldn't be
> sensitive to a Tomcat upgrade.

We have 34 directories, many with subdirectories; 47 sitemap.xmaps in
all. And 15GB of XML text.

> My advice would be to put the latest Java and the latest Tomcat on a
> test server and drop your existing application's WAR in there and test
> everything. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how painless it is.

All that is done, fortunately. That part of it was never really a problem.

> As for Cocoon upgrade suggestions, others have made those already in
> this thread. Honestly, if it were me, I'd upgrade Java/Tomcat first and
> make sure everything works, and then focus on upgrading Cocoon.

If I upgrade manually to Tomcat 8 it's going to break all the directory
changes and control software setups that RH-based systems expect, which
will create work for my ops and my staff because it will be different
from all the other Tomcat servers around here. Unfortunately.

It's a pity that Cocoon has strayed so far from its original task of
serving XML via XSLT. In fact it's not at all clear to me what problem
Cocoon 3 is intended to solve. At the moment it looks more like a
development playground or sandbox for Java architects (in itself a
valuable thing; I wish there were more of them) than a production
application solving a business or social requirement. It's basically way
too much Java and nowhere near enough XML.

///Peter
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| University College Cork IT Services | ☎ +353 21 490 2609
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