Re: machine won't start
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Matthew Dillon dil...@apollo.backplane.com wrote: Normally this issue can be fixed by setting the BIOS to access the disk in LBA or LARGE mode. The problem is due to a bug in the BIOS's attempt to interpret the slice table in CHS mode instead of logical block mode. It's a BIOS bug. These old BIOS's make a lot of assumptions w/regards to the contents of the slice table, including making explicit checks for particular OS types in the table. I've only ever seen the problem on old machines, and I've always been able to solve it by setting the BIOS access mode. I've never, ever found a slice table format that works properly across all BIOSs. At this juncture we are using only newer (newer being 'only' 25+ years old) slice table formats (aka LBA layouts and using proper capped values for hard drives that are larger than the 32-bit LBA layout can handle). Ultimately we will want to start formatting things w/GPT, but that opens up a whole new can of worms... old BIOSes can explode even more easily when presented with a GPT's compat slice format, at least as defined by GPT. Numerous vendors such as Apple modified their GPT to try to work around the even larger number of BIOS bugs related to GPT formatting than were present for the older LBA formatting. I consider it almost a lost cause. -Matt There was interesting debate before couple od days/weeks on OpenBSD about support for disks larger than 2TB. It turned out that they can be used just fine without GPT, but multiboot capability is mostly lost as job is done in disklable (their fdisk can't do that) http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=133857397722515w=2
btrfs and atime - is that similar with Hammer?
See https://lwn.net/Articles/499293/
Don't response - test
Can't see new mails in my box from 15.9.
Re: Some problems installing dragonFly BSD. Can anybody help?
At least output of dmesg, pciconf and probably pictures of those debugger output will be fine. On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Ivan Uemlianin i...@llaisdy.com wrote: Dear All I am installing DragonFly BSD onto a Thinkpad X60. Actually, I have installed it, but perhaps not correctly. Below are my symptoms. Please can anybody help with any of them? Some background: I am fairly familiar with Unix-like operating systems (long time fan of Debian GNU/Linux; currently using MacOS X), but I don't have a sysadmin background. One of my reasons for installing DragonFly BSD is to learn. I plan to blog as I go (e.g., I've just written a note on getting the image onto a USB stick: http://llaisdy.wordpress.com/2011/05/06/dragonfly-bsd-copying-the-image-onto-a-usb-stick-under-macos-x/). I installed dfly-i386-gui-2.10.1_REL.img from a USB stick. Symptoms: Major: 1. After the post-installation configuration step, I chose reboot. While rebooting, the system seemed to crash and I ended up inside a debugger. However, after a successful shutdown and reboot, the system seemed to run OK. 2. During configuration dhcp seemed to find the network (at least, a dialogue appeared, giving me some info ending with Status: Active), but after I'd rebooted into X and launched Firefox, Firefox could not find external urls. So, perhaps dhcp didn't work and I should configure the network manually. 3. The window manager is TWM. On exiting TWM, the screen froze and didn't return me to the console. I had to go to another console and kill X manually. Minor: 4. I don't think I set the correct keyboard map (and/or screen map?). Most of the keyboard works as it should, but shift-3 does not produce the expected £ --- it doesn't produce anything, so maybe the keyboard map is OK but the screen map is wrong? 5. I was expecting FVWM as the window manager: I thought the docs said that was the default. Presumably I can change the window manager. Should it have been FVWM? Is the fact that I got TWM instead a symptom that some config was wrong? All in all, it doesn't look very healthy. Can anybody indicate what might have gone wrong? Or, if I re-install, what signals I should be looking out for? With thanks and best wishes Ivan -- Ivan A. Uemlianin Speech Technology Research and Development i...@llaisdy.com www.llaisdy.com llaisdy.wordpress.com www.linkedin.com/in/ivanuemlianin Froh, froh! Wie seine Sonnen, seine Sonnen fliegen (Schiller, Beethoven)
Re: unix newbie
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Chatoor Kalki chatoor.ka...@gmail.com wrote: hello, i'm new to unix but am interested in learning and getting a decent command over it as quickly as possible. initially i will be running dragonfly bsd within virtualbox under windows 7. can i get help with references to books? i purchased 'the unix programming environment' but am unable to get a grasp over unix as effortlessly as i'd expected. is there some other book/s i could refer to? Good on-line start http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/design-44bsd/ http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/OpenSource/Conceptual/ShellScripting/Introduction/Introduction.html thank you.
Re: Filesystems
On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 2:15 AM, David Crosswell david.crosswe...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I understand that. I'm looking forward to doing something with Hammer, but I've spoken to a couple of guys at the local Users group who swear they'll never use anything else but ZFS - got it running on FreeBSD and I looked at Dragonfly with UFS and Hammer and thought with ZFS they'd have every scenario covered. Which version of Hammer was that? ;-) (in their test). Hammer has functions which are not in ZFS and are superb and Matt described quite well in one post why RAID is not catch all solution. With ZFS they depend on Oracle as it's released under CDDL and there are clauses which Oracle can use to close all ZFS ports if they wants (for example when it will start to be too much big concurrent for their own system). Anyway what are your options with ZFS - 1) Solaris with price from 1000$/socket/year without license it's unusable and just crazy people use systems without patches/updates in production connected to Internet 2) Illumos/OpenIndiana is good alternative and has some big companies behind to be able so stay somewhat resistent to Oracle 3) FreeBSD probably best port outside of Solaris, but main porter died (sad) and he was great regarding internals so it's quite harder now for them 4) Linux with some module or through FUSE. Can't be in kernel because of license and they don't care anymore as there is btrfs already 5) NetBSD still unusable, a lot of panics and long way ahead Linux is working to incorporate ZFS compatibility into the kernel, and even with various filesystem developers looking at substantial jail sentences for killing their wives, they've still got an over abundance of filesystems. see 4) above, ReiserFS is maintained quite well by community. What's the point to have all available filesystems included in some OS? Of course except of bigger mess in some systems ;-) MS-DOS for compatibility on USB flash disk or memory cards, NTFS for compatibility with Windows and iso9660/udf for CD/DVD media. Now about filesystems for disks in PCs/servers 1) ext2/3/4 for simplicity you can say that all are same 2) XFS 3) ReiserFS 4) ffs/ufs versions 1 and 2 and their brother HFS in Apple That's all because even those journaled filesystems are same/similar regard the design. Why it doesn't matter how much of those fs is supported in some OS? Because all of them are old by design and needs for modern storage. That's why ZFS/Hammer/btrfs born so you must care about those regarding feature and you can't care about those which are not in kernel because of speed and other issues via FUSE, Puffs, module or whatever which are fine for tests only. So you will end with what? Solaris, Ilumos/OI, FreeBSD for ZFS, DragonFlyBSD for Hammer and btrfs for Linux It's going to have to wait for a while before I learn C then. You don't need to know C to start learning ZFS/Hammer/btrfs all you need is a system (eg. in VM) which has mature implementation to play around with that and read man pages, papers, whatever. Regards, David Crosswell. On 23/04/2011, Justin Sherrill jus...@shiningsilence.com wrote: It's certainly possible. Nobody's working on it right now, to my knowledge. I'm more interesting in seeing Hammer grow, so I'm not that concerned about it. On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 5:03 PM, David Crosswell david.crosswe...@gmail.com wrote: I understand the availability of UFS and Hammer in the Dragonfly environment, but is ZFS possible, or are there any plans to facilitate it if it isn't? Regards, David Crosswell. -- In a world without walls and fences, what need have we for Windows or Gates? http://www.weavers-web.org -- In a world without walls and fences, what need have we for Windows or Gates? http://www.weavers-web.org
Re: Hammer deduplication needs for RAM size
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Matthew Dillon dil...@apollo.backplane.com wrote: :Hi all, : :can someone compare/describe need of RAM size by deduplication in :Hammer? There's something interesting about deduplication in ZFS :http://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2011-April/003574.html : :Thx The ram is basically needed to store matching CRCs. The on-line dedup uses a limited fixed-sized hash table to remember CRCs, designed to match recently read data with future written data (e.g. 'cp'). The off-line dedup (when you run 'hammer dedup ...' or 'hammer dedup-simulate ...' will keep track of ALL data CRCs when it scans the filesystem B-Tree. It will happily use lots of swap space if it comes down to it, which is probably a bug. But that's how it works now. Actual file data is not persistently cached in memory. It is read only when the dedup locates a potential match and sticks around in a limited cache before getting thrown away, and will be re-read as needed. Their discussion continues and they talk about rule 1 - 3GB of RAM per 1TB of data. Regarding this http://blogs.sun.com/roch/entry/dedup_performance_considerations1 it looks like those data are persistent as cache in memory. So is this a reason for higher RAM usage with ZFS and dedup when comparing with Hammer? -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com
Re: Filesystems
On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Freddie Cash fjwc...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 3:43 AM, Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com wrote: 3) FreeBSD probably best port outside of Solaris, but main porter died (sad) and he was great regarding internals so it's quite harder now for them The main porter of ZFS to FreeBSD is Pawel Jakub Dawidek (probably spelt a bit wrong) aka p...@freebsd.org, who is most certainly still alive, and continuing work on ZFS, HAST, GEOM_GATE, and other interesting storage stuff. Eh wrong technology in my head. I was talking about original porter of DTrace to FreeBSD. -- Freddie Cash fjwc...@gmail.com
Hammer deduplication needs for RAM size
Hi all, can someone compare/describe need of RAM size by deduplication in Hammer? There's something interesting about deduplication in ZFS http://openindiana.org/pipermail/openindiana-discuss/2011-April/003574.html Thx
Some addition to actual work on SMP support
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/emerging-tech/2010/12/25/intel-why-a-1000-core-chip-is-feasible-40090968/
Re: Random x86-64 seg-fault finally fixed
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Chris Turner c.tur...@199technologies.org wrote: Matthew Dillon wrote: Partitioning is already desireable for the current 48-core monster and I'd like to have some sort of DragonFly host guest solution that runs at full performance on the bare HW without virtualization. How would this be different than jail(8)? not understanding the 'without virtualization' part - I know some form of HW virt a-la kvm has been discussed a few times - I think that Matthew is talking about something like these : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Domains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_partition_%28virtual_computing_platform%29 do you mean like segmenting the 'machine' or somesuch?
Repository of SW useful for robotic community based on pkgsrc
May be of some use even for DragonFlyBSD people. http://homepages.laas.fr/mallet/robotpkg
Re: MC not starting
2010/11/4 Przemysław Pawełczyk pp...@o2.pl: Hi, I wrote in September a post etitled Unknown terminal: cons25 in DragonFly BSD (in point 3): http://www.mail-archive.com/users@crater.dragonflybsd.org/msg10993.html that: Why mc says Unknown terminal: cons25? I'm not able to run mc at present. See: http://pp.blast.pl/www.png/dfbsd/df_10.png; Don't use VirtualBox, it simply sucks and not only for BSD systems See the present screenshot (the message is the same): http://pp.blast.pl/www.png/dfbsd/df_13.png You don't have df_13.png in your directory What to do next? I installed DFly in VBox using NetBSD (64bit) template to play around with the system. During installation I set language options to iso.8859-2 and pl-aware whenever possible. Again, don't use VirtualBox which really sucks. And more specifically if you are testing Dfly, then you can't use NetBSD, FreeBSD or any similar as Dfly is not any of them. Use simply Other. Any help welcome. Regards -- Przemysław Pawełczyk (P2O2) [pron. Pshemislav Paveltchick] http://pp.blast.pl, pp...@o2.pl
Re: 2 questions regarding PF
2010/11/3 Przemysław Pawełczyk pp...@o2.pl: On Tue, 2 Nov 2010 19:37:32 -0400 Justin C. Sherrill jus...@shiningsilence.com wrote: 2. But support for the PF 4.2 is sorta soft (weak), as well. I wasn't able to find PF 4.2 doc files on DF BSD WWW. I'd like to see them in the form of OpenBSD's PF: The OpenBSD Packet Filter (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/index.html) Why not read that instead? It's right from the source. Because it's valid only for actual release which is 4.8 right now Yes, I did. :-) But as I said - there are dicrepencies - how big? Where? On the other hand DF should provide good documentation on PF issues. Better than now. Regards -- Przemysław Pawełczyk (P2O2) [pron. Pshemislav Paveltchick] http://pp.blast.pl, pp...@o2.pl
Re: hammering the drive
A lot. I've hit same issue during 'hammer prune-everything' , 'hammer synctid' , 'hammer reblock'. Anyway it is vm so I expect less problems on real machine and those jobs are really I/O intensive for disk so that's why it's started by default during night. On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Pierre Abbat p...@phma.optus.nu wrote: I clicked on the tabs of a Firefox window I have up, and it responded very slowly. I ran top, which shows a low load average, but hammer is running. I can hear the disk rattling. How much does the nightly hammer run wear out a drive? Pierre -- La sal en el mar es más que en la sangre. Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang. -- “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker
Re: sound no longer works for some programs
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Chris Turner c.tur...@199technologies.org wrote: Pierre Abbat wrote: What's jackd? Jack is a sound server / time transport sync patching setup designed mainly for audio production / music / etc - originally designed for linux but has since been made portable: http://jackaudio.org/ It's nearly-OT but there's quite a bit about multimedia production / music for linux here http://linuxaudio.org/ btw - theoretically alot of this should work if the audio + midi layer can be made to work - and some of it already probably does a severly time-deprived side project of mine is trying to get as much of this stuff tested or working on DragonFly as I can. So far, I haven't done anything really - jack runs. I've gotten snd (https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/snd/) to talk to it. although I didn't have enough SHM configured for jack, and it therefore didn't make sound - and dynamically setting SHM freaked out my dev box - I've subsequently been too involved with web stuff and to risk the crash.. (see time-deprived) Is MIDI I/O supported in the kernel? The driver is snd_ich; does that kind of card support MIDI? no idea on this stuff - on my time-deprived todo list. There's some interesting stuff going on in OpenBSD w/r/t midi - see http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq13.html#midi for an entry point - I think (haven't followed closely) thats mainly being driven by: http://www.caoua.org/midish/ It's not only about that. There is a LOT of improvements in audio on OpenBSD http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=articlesid=20091012150452 . These are worth of reading http://www.openbsd.org/papers/asiabsdcon2010_sndio_slides.pdf , http://www.openbsd.org/papers/asiabsdcon2010_sndio.pdf and that http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=aucatapropos=0sektion=0manpath=OpenBSD+Currentarch=i386format=html is working wonderfully also, according to my latest pkgsrc builds, some of the linux 'alsa' layer has been made user-space, so theoretically some software-side stuff might work. I'm overdue on some wiki edits - will retest type something up on what I have when I do that perhaps anyone else interested in audio/media production on DF should sound off here so we know who to pester :) cheers - Chris
Packages mentioned in summary file are not on mirrors
Hi all, 2010Q2 is done by dfly on mirrors? Eg. mplayer is in summary file and showed through pkgin or pkg_search, but install is not possible as it's not in mirror. Some license issues, sure, but why it's in summary file? -- “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker
Re: Is Citrix client working on dfly?
This is working on OpenBSD http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=108811948415017w=2 , you just need to have Linux emulation enabled. I changed that on Dfly and Linux emulation is enabled, but all I get is : sudo ./setupwfc This package does not contain a version of Citrix Receiver for this workstation. On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Sascha Wildner s...@online.de wrote: On 10/15/2010 7:41, Tomas Bodzar wrote: Hi all, I'm looking for info if Citrix client is working on DragonflyBSD. I found only this in archives http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/~hasso/pbulk-logs/20090509.1517/citrix_ica-10.6.115659nb1/install.log , but it looks like try from pkgsrc. I'm using Citrix client on OpenBSD and I was able to install it directly (downloaded from Citrix page) outside of pkg system and Linux emulation (which is however quite old here). It seems the situation hasn't improved yet: http://avalon.dragonflybsd.org/reports/i386/2.7/20100916.0518/citrix_ica-10.6.115659nb1/install.log It would be great if you could try compiling it from pkgsrc yourself and figure out why it breaks. Regards, Sascha -- “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker
Re: Is Citrix client working on dfly?
Ok I'm further. I was able to install latest version of ICA client from http://www.citrix.com/English/ss/downloads/details.asp?downloadId=3323productId=186c1=sot2755 . It went fine after modifications mentioned by people on misc@ . However it was still not running so I dived in to the script and found that there is test for OS. This test is made by 'uname -s' and case for BSD systems is ...*BSD), but DragonflyBSD shows DragonFly. So I modified it directly in script and after that installation went fine and without problems. I will test real funcionality tomorrow, but I don't expect any problems because I have same setup in OpenBSD. I used defaults so it's in /usr/lib/ICAclient, but as this is vm I don't need to care for now. I'm not sure what's wrong with version from pkgsrc because I can see that problem mentioned above is solved in pkgsrc, but other stuff is done differently in patches (eg. /bin/true case) and I installed newer version of client and to default location and not to /usr/pkg. On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com wrote: This is working on OpenBSD http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=108811948415017w=2 , you just need to have Linux emulation enabled. I changed that on Dfly and Linux emulation is enabled, but all I get is : sudo ./setupwfc This package does not contain a version of Citrix Receiver for this workstation. On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Sascha Wildner s...@online.de wrote: On 10/15/2010 7:41, Tomas Bodzar wrote: Hi all, I'm looking for info if Citrix client is working on DragonflyBSD. I found only this in archives http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/~hasso/pbulk-logs/20090509.1517/citrix_ica-10.6.115659nb1/install.log , but it looks like try from pkgsrc. I'm using Citrix client on OpenBSD and I was able to install it directly (downloaded from Citrix page) outside of pkg system and Linux emulation (which is however quite old here). It seems the situation hasn't improved yet: http://avalon.dragonflybsd.org/reports/i386/2.7/20100916.0518/citrix_ica-10.6.115659nb1/install.log It would be great if you could try compiling it from pkgsrc yourself and figure out why it breaks. Regards, Sascha -- “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker
Re: Is Citrix client working on dfly?
I will be out of my machine for 14 days and I need to know it before installing dfly on that PC, but I will try it in VMware during next 14 days if it's working fine and I will not use pkgsrc version, but directly version from Citrix page which is working on OpenBSD fine. On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Sascha Wildner s...@online.de wrote: On 10/15/2010 7:41, Tomas Bodzar wrote: Hi all, I'm looking for info if Citrix client is working on DragonflyBSD. I found only this in archives http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/~hasso/pbulk-logs/20090509.1517/citrix_ica-10.6.115659nb1/install.log , but it looks like try from pkgsrc. I'm using Citrix client on OpenBSD and I was able to install it directly (downloaded from Citrix page) outside of pkg system and Linux emulation (which is however quite old here). It seems the situation hasn't improved yet: http://avalon.dragonflybsd.org/reports/i386/2.7/20100916.0518/citrix_ica-10.6.115659nb1/install.log It would be great if you could try compiling it from pkgsrc yourself and figure out why it breaks. Regards, Sascha -- “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker
bio_page_alloc: WARNING emergency page allocation
Hi all, I installed latest dev i386 iso to VMware Player 3.2.1 onWindows XP. Installation went fine. Now I logged as root and done: cd usr make src-create after all steps there is : bio_page_alloc: WARNING emergency page allocation bio_page_alloc: WARNING emergency page allocation bio_page_alloc: WARNING emergency page allocation bio_page_alloc: WARNING emergency page allocation bio_page_alloc: WARNING emergency page allocation Checking out files: 100% (30445/30445), done. Already on 'master' cd /usr/src git pull fatal: Unable to look up git.dragonflybsd.org (port 9418) (hostname nor servname provided, or not known). Error code 1 Stop in /usr. dlfy# bio_page_alloc: WARNING emergency page allocation bio_page_alloc: WARNING emergency page allocation bio_page_alloc: WARNING emergency page allocation Disk is set to 40GB and 37GB is free. Assigned memory is 256 RAM. dfly# du -sh src 702M src dfly# Do I need to be worry about it? -- “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker
Is Citrix client working on dfly?
Hi all, I'm looking for info if Citrix client is working on DragonflyBSD. I found only this in archives http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/~hasso/pbulk-logs/20090509.1517/citrix_ica-10.6.115659nb1/install.log , but it looks like try from pkgsrc. I'm using Citrix client on OpenBSD and I was able to install it directly (downloaded from Citrix page) outside of pkg system and Linux emulation (which is however quite old here). Thanks a lot -- “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker
Re: USB image
Hammer FS (or eg. ZFS on Solaris), SSI, swapcache, tmpfs, dhcpd, make files, compiling, kernel config, pkgsrc and a lot of other stuff is not intended for Need for speed players or script kitties. It's intended for professionals as some other Unix-like systems. End users don't need to care about details because professionals will prepare servers/workstations/laptops for them and their use. Admin don't need to be eg. insurance agent, he/she will just prepare tool for that end user and from the other side; end users don't need to be (or try so much) professionals in IT because it ends mostly with big catastrophe. If someone wants toy full of holes, but with super duper colors and a lot of buttons for clicking then he/she can choose Windows, MacOS or Ubuntu and it's possible that he/she will be able to install it and somewhat use it, but most probably it will not be correctly set in these Internet (viruses, spyware,...) times because he/she will lack informations and experience for proper administration. When someone wants to go deeply in some area then there is only one way - a lot of years of learning and experience. It does not change just because we have Internet and PR materials from stupid vendors talks lies. OS is very complex system - take it from the other side - flying is so easy (at least for birds); why do I need to learn that complicated stuff about mathematics, physic, meteorology and so on; why there is not one-click-button-to-fly airplane? How about space travelling? How about submarines? How about cars? Are you able to create your own on same level of quality as from those companies? No? Guess why - because you lack info and experience in that area as it's not so easy and not because someone wants to be rude against you. Can't understand why so much people is whining in IT area and don't whine in those others :-) Correction, a professional OS that requires its users to be professionals. Not a bunch of whining windows update people that have to call IT to launch excel. In case you hadn't noticed we are old school UNIX users that don't mind fixing whatever problem is at hand. Including writing code or fixing a bug. This is why in the olden days your IT department was worth something and wasn't a bunch of monkeys reading a script. It is exactly your attitude that has ruined the computer industry Marco Peereboom - OpenBSD developer (one of my favorite citations :-)) I'm more and more curious how girls and guys were able to work with computers as there was not any X system, just terminal and they were able to do financial stuff, advocacy, geology, mathematics, office and so on. They were either crazy or had more knowledge or maybe there weren't simply crazy and it was something like challenge for them to learn something new instead of saying - I will not work with that because it has no buttons and GUI. On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:40 AM, Tron t...@hotbox.ru wrote: Thanks Dylan, it is clear now. However, given your example of those other Linux ditro's, I am wondering why the DF group decided to build their images this way if there is an alternative. I mean if DF seriously wants to expand its ranks the best way is from the herds of Windows users and most of them know nothing about Unix. So the easier the route to see what DF can do - the more likely is someone to put in the effort. With this USB example alone: first, a newbie has to get the USB image, second realize (probably the hard way 'cause there is no mention of this on the download page) that the writing app is completely different from the one they use to write their CD images with and ultimately see that even though the DF image is small he can't move anything else onto the flash disk (which may be particularly frustrating if they only have the big one they just bought)... I think it is easy to see how many novices may get discouraged with DF and give up almost before they began. Fortunately, I am strongly motivated, have been to DF's IRC channel before and have finally succeeded in signing up on this help list (which also wasn't the most straight forward thing ever... and could not have happened without my knowledge of IRC). My point is, I think you are a great bunch of guys who have done one hell of a job, but if you want to attract not just the most experience computer users, the route from A-B, never mind from A-Z should be easier. Many thanks, Tron. On 9/28/2010 8:56 PM, Dylan Reinhold wrote: Tron, Yes you are correct this would completely re write the stick with this image. The way DFly build their USB images means this is the only way. I know some Linux distro's have some ways to allow you to drop the files on a fat[32] formated drive and run a command to boot. So when you want you disk back do will need to refomat it, saveing the current image might work also. Hope this helps, Dylan On 09/28/2010 05:42 PM, Tron wrote: An off the shelf flash drive allows
Re: USB image
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 6:10 AM, Justin C. Sherrill jus...@shiningsilence.com wrote: On Wed, September 29, 2010 11:42 pm, Tomas Bodzar wrote: When someone wants to go deeply in some area then there is only one way - a lot of years of learning and experience. It does not change just because we have Internet and PR materials from stupid vendors talks lies. OS is very complex system - take it from the other side - flying is so easy (at least for birds); why do I need to learn that complicated stuff about mathematics, physic, meteorology and so on; why there is not one-click-button-to-fly airplane? How about space travelling? How about submarines? How about cars? Are you able to create your own on same level of quality as from those companies? No? Guess why - because you lack info and experience in that area as it's not so easy and not because someone wants to be rude against you. The best answer when someone says This doesn't work for me isn't You don't know enough but rather Here, let me show you how. Not all the time because sooner or later it's starting to be boring when someone is not able to find eg. info from Download page : If you use a USB .img file, it needs to be copied to a USB key directly. Use 'dd' on unix-like systems, or a similar program on Windows. (there is a link to similar program on Windows) It's quite simple. Man pages and Internet are full of sources. If someone wants to do that then there are no blocks for him/her - just couple of reading. If he/she ask that it still doesn't work and provide some outputs what was tested and still doesn't work then why not to help. Attempting to prove the worth of anything to folks who are not able to figure things out for themselves is much like trying to teach butterflies Calculus. It doesn't work and wastes your time. Of course that I don't know everything as no one knows everything, but at least I'm trying to do my best in case of problems and learning is good for me and my life so I'm trying to learn it first before asking. It's just my opinion and it was my reaction. I'm not developer of Dfly and I like some features of that OS and developers are doing good job. To answer the original question, I haven't seen a USB drive solution that didn't involve some other steps - many of them require a Windows user to boot from a live CD image to use dd or equivalent to write to the USB drive, or rarely have a specialized program to write it out (Mandriva). I've heard of Linux installers that were able to understand a fat32 USB drive if files were set up a particular way, but it didn't seem to be easier overall. This looks interesting: http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/ Would it work with a DragonFly image? Please, someone try this.
Re: example of dfbsd deployment or product that based on dfbsd
On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 4:17 AM, Iwan Budi Kusnanto iwan.b.kusna...@gmail.com wrote: Justin C. Sherrill wrote: On Tue, September 28, 2010 3:54 am, Iwan Budi Kusnanto wrote: Hi, I just have interest in DFBSD and have some questions. Can someone give me examples of some big/great DFBSD deployment or some product that based of DFBSD ? Is DFBSD proven to be rock solid in real world ? I don't know if these are the scale you are looking for , but I'm looking for production server that used by some company for their mission critical application. Hmm, then maybe you can try to look for it forever as big companies with mission critical application make decisions mostly based on PR materials and donated money from vendors instead of quality or technical merit of solution. dragonflybsd.org, of course, has been DragonFly-hosted for years. My own domain, shiningsilence.com, has been a DragonFly system for... 5 years now? I have been following regular releases and had very little issues. -- “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker
Re: chlamydia inconsistency? part II.
On which real platform is it? (Win, Linux, some BSD) Which version of VirtualBox? Did you choose type of OS as FreeBSD or Other? 2010/9/25 Przemysław Pawełczyk pp...@o2.pl: Hi, I was too optimistic. I tried to get MC running using compilation but the procedure also ended up with segmentation fault. See the two pictures from the MC series: http://pp.blast.pl/www.png/dfbsd/df_02.png http://pp.blast.pl/www.png/dfbsd/df_03.png I gave up as for now. ;-) Regards -- Przemysław Pawełczyk (P2O2) [pron. Pshemislav Paveltchick] http://pp.blast.pl, pp...@o2.pl -- “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker
Re: Weird entry in ISO
2010/9/24 Przemysław Pawełczyk pp...@o2.pl: On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:28:16 +0100 Steve O'Hara-Smith st...@sohara.org wrote: On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 15:07:50 +0200 Przemysław Pawełczyk pp...@o2.pl wrote: On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:43:26 +0100 Alex Hornung ahorn...@gmail.com wrote: On 24/09/10 13:37, Przemysław Pawełczyk wrote: I know, and I would expect such answer. No offense please, but for how long yet such attitude will prevail in Unix community? It lingers from 80s of the last... Cenury of the last Millennium. ;-) Sorry, but I simply fail to see why we need 'mc' and 'lynx' in base. If someone can't use the standard unix commands, he should possibly learn before using a unix system. The same pervasive attitude... You failed but I did not fail, the more so I explained in plain English (I hope) why the toots might be helpful. I know standard unix commands I program in shell. Does it mean that I should stick to them for full 50 years of my life? Pathetic... Not at all - just because these tools are not in the base system does not mean they're not easily available just install them with pkg_radd or pkgin or build them yourself (cd /usr/pkgsrc/sysutils/mc; bmake install clean clean-depends). Let me show you a real example, I did stuck with no network during installation. DF is new to me. Unix commands like dhclient are not available though paths so I had to find it. The DF tree is different from other systems. If you will read first before doing something then you will find this page http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/newhandbook/Installation/ where is even description how to enable network after install. DF tree is not so different from that one in OpenBSD. You can read man page (which has same name as in OpenBSD) here too http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/cgi/web-man?command=hiersection=ANY Using MC I get broader picture of system dir layout and their contents - I get two panes with a lot of information - and I am not coerced to wander thru subdirectories typing cd and ls like idiot (not as bad as I would be getting acquainted with DF bowels but MC is more convenient). I don't like MC. I prefer simple terminal with tmux(1) and couple of commands like ls(1) and similar. If I need explorer-like then I'm using xfe. And what? It's my choice. It doesn't need to be same for all. MC is not a holly cow of Unix. Of course, I am not so stupid to bang my head onto concrete wall of chastity of Unix diehard users. Nobody is suggesting that these tools aren't useful - just that there's no compelling reason to put them in the base system when they can be so easily added from pkgsrc where they are well maintained without distracting the DragonFly developers from developing DragonFly. If there is no problem for me installing it via pkgsrc the more so there wouldn't be a problem for developers. If I got the network working I wouldn't noticed how badly I miss my MC. ;-) It would be nice and convenient for ***ME*** if the DFBSD used the idea of system software chunks aka sets conjured up by NetBSD and OpenBSD teams. Why not creat one more set of useful tools with Lynx, MC, and other apps? CD size is big and modern networks provide fast downloads. DragonFly does support building ISOs with a configurable set of packages pre-installed. Installing packages is easy once the base system is installed so there's no particular reason to add to the base. I didn't say about packages but about sets: http://ftp.bytemine.net/pub/OpenBSD/4.7/amd64/ What about DF basic system software divided into sets similar to sets found in OpenBSD? And why? Because everything must be as in OpenBSD? Hint: My only OS is OpenBSD, but I like a lot of features in Dfly and a way of its developers in some areas. Sorry, but I simply did not fail to see that DFBSD system might gain having such tools distibuted on its ISO and be the leader on the BSD trek of all BSD flavors. For all those like me who like to use mc or lynx. We have the right to breath too, haven't we? The problem here is that it's an endless cycle which culminates in an install that needs a blu-ray disc and comes with everything under the sun pre-installed. Why everyone sees the issue of extra tools as a point boiled down to extreme end? It is not an argument during such discussion if any. Did I ask for all the blobs lurking on the IT market? Yes, it's possible to create something like Solaris installer where install or upgrade takes forever and after that you have disk full of unneeded stuff, but again - why? Dfly's target is not super-duper OS with every possible piece of SW from the market. It's not problem to create Ubuntu-like OS, but some people/users/developers prefer funcionality/quality/simplicity instead of over-bloated crap. And yes, lynx in OpenBSD base install is fine, but they have much more developers and money from users so if you want it
Re: Weird entry in ISO
2010/9/24 Przemysław Pawełczyk pp...@o2.pl: On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 17:06:40 +0200 Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com wrote: (...) Not at all - just because these tools are not in the base system does not mean they're not easily available just install them with pkg_radd or pkgin or build them yourself (cd /usr/pkgsrc/sysutils/mc; bmake install clean clean-depends). Let me show you a real example, I did stuck with no network during installation. DF is new to me. Unix commands like dhclient are not available though paths so I had to find it. The DF tree is different from other systems. If you will read first before doing something then you will find this page http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/newhandbook/Installation/ where is even description how to enable network after install. If you read first before doing something then you would find that I got stuck before installation - I just inserted CD, kick off DF and... opsys was in memory but it ended up without IP. So checking in dmesg if LAN interface was detected or reboot to your original OS and http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/newhandbook/Configuration/ ? DF tree is not so different from that one in OpenBSD. You can read man page (which has same name as in OpenBSD) here too http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/cgi/web-man?command=hiersection=ANY Thank you. The permeation of BSD flavors is unprecedented, isn't it? ;-) Mmm I hope that there will not be more and more diferences like in Linux :-) Using MC I get broader picture of system dir layout and their contents - I get two panes with a lot of information - and I am not coerced to wander thru subdirectories typing cd and ls like idiot (not as bad as I would be getting acquainted with DF bowels but MC is more convenient). I don't like MC. I prefer simple terminal with tmux(1) and couple of commands like ls(1) and similar. If I need explorer-like then I'm using xfe. And what? It's my choice. It doesn't need to be same for all. MC is not a holly cow of Unix. xfe w/o X? I did not say if with or without X ;-) Anyway ls, cp, cat, vi, more and others are still here and in combination with tmux it's superb enough. Of course for me. Can't talk for others. (...) I didn't say about packages but about sets: http://ftp.bytemine.net/pub/OpenBSD/4.7/amd64/ What about DF basic system software divided into sets similar to sets found in OpenBSD? And why? Because everything must be as in OpenBSD? Hint: My only OS is OpenBSD, but I like a lot of features in Dfly and a way of its developers in some areas. I thought because OpenBSD sets were good solution. Period. If DF takes from other BSDs, why not in this point? Maybe because they can't see point in this or don't have time for this? I really don't know. (...) And yes, lynx in OpenBSD base install is fine, but they have much more developers and money from users so if you want it in Dfly then pay someone or do it yourself or more simple - said in OpenBSD way - shut up or hack ;-) At last! At least one user agreeing with me. :-) Sometimes I feel like there was another adage - use it or ditch it (and get lost). Just another rude expression dressed in smiley. It wasn't meant as something rude ;-) It's just fact. Communities are smaller around OpenBSD or Dfly, but I think that much more useful and I can see thanks to my own use that approach in OpenBSD community leads to quality so no problem with that for me. Regards -- Przemysław Pawełczyk (P2O2) [pron. Pshemislav Paveltchick] http://pp.blast.pl, pp...@o2.pl -- “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker
DragonflyBSD under VMware ESX - someone use it?
Hi all, is there someone who is using DragonflyBSD under VMware ESX platform and what are his/her thoughts about it? Thanx a lot -- “If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker
Re: questions over dragonfly
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 7:06 PM, dark0s Optik shiftco...@gmail.com wrote: I didn't know about iXsystems. It has good machines, but: 1) where is the price? Just ask them. Not so much companies shows prices for those machines. http://www.boston.co.uk/products/workstations/default.aspx http://www.workstationspecialist.com/product_range/ http://www.armari.com/tesla.asp 2) I'm italian and not american, how can I receive that machines? Prices for transportation between USA and Europe are much more better then inside Europe, but there will be taxes and VAT I suppose too. 2010/6/16 Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com: On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:19 AM, dark0s Optik shiftco...@gmail.com wrote: 1) But I think configuration is: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=bedw52hc=usl=ens=bsdcs=04kc=server-poweredge-t410 Better configuration, but at least similar CPU and chipset is eg, available here http://www.ixsystems.com/item/20/90 so there is some hope that it may run or may run in the future. 2) My notebook is sony vaio vgn-nr21z and cannot install over this computer dragonfly or freebsd 2010/6/16 Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com: It's not because Linux is such a good, but because most of the HW is just cheap crap and Linux is ok with that status. See eg. http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=125783114503531w=2 In the end you must buy HW for OS you want to use. If it's not a choice like for already existing HW then you need to choose OS which will be running of course. Anyway the golden rule Use what's appropriate for you and your use is still valid. It can be anything from any BSD, over Linux, Solaris/OpenSolaris to Windows or MacOS. BTW what notebook do you have? On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 9:09 AM, dark0s Optik shiftco...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to buy a dell server and to install DragonFly. I notice that BSD is more problems than Linux installation, for example, I not be successful to install any BSD system over my notebook. My question are: 1) DragonFlyBSD install successfully over system like this: http://www.dell.com/us/en/business/servers/server-poweredge-t410/pd.aspx?refid=server-poweredge-t410s=bsdcs=04 2) I'd like run some vkernel machine over that system to serve clients, is a good solution or is inadvisable to serve clients with vkernel machines? -- only the paranoid will survive -- only the paranoid will survive -- only the paranoid will survive
Re: questions over dragonfly
It's not because Linux is such a good, but because most of the HW is just cheap crap and Linux is ok with that status. See eg. http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=125783114503531w=2 In the end you must buy HW for OS you want to use. If it's not a choice like for already existing HW then you need to choose OS which will be running of course. Anyway the golden rule Use what's appropriate for you and your use is still valid. It can be anything from any BSD, over Linux, Solaris/OpenSolaris to Windows or MacOS. BTW what notebook do you have? On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 9:09 AM, dark0s Optik shiftco...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to buy a dell server and to install DragonFly. I notice that BSD is more problems than Linux installation, for example, I not be successful to install any BSD system over my notebook. My question are: 1) DragonFlyBSD install successfully over system like this: http://www.dell.com/us/en/business/servers/server-poweredge-t410/pd.aspx?refid=server-poweredge-t410s=bsdcs=04 2) I'd like run some vkernel machine over that system to serve clients, is a good solution or is inadvisable to serve clients with vkernel machines? -- only the paranoid will survive
Re: questions over dragonfly
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 9:09 AM, dark0s Optik shiftco...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to buy a dell server and to install DragonFly. I notice that BSD is more problems than Linux installation, for example, I not be successful to install any BSD system over my notebook. My question are: 1) DragonFlyBSD install successfully over system like this: http://www.dell.com/us/en/business/servers/server-poweredge-t410/pd.aspx?refid=server-poweredge-t410s=bsdcs=04 Looks like interesting piece of HW. It will be fine to know if everything is supported on any BSD. Do you have option somewhere in shop/vendor area to try to boot install media? Sometimes they are quite open to this option. 2) I'd like run some vkernel machine over that system to serve clients, is a good solution or is inadvisable to serve clients with vkernel machines? -- only the paranoid will survive
Re: questions over dragonfly
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:19 AM, dark0s Optik shiftco...@gmail.com wrote: 1) But I think configuration is: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=bedw52hc=usl=ens=bsdcs=04kc=server-poweredge-t410 There is too much HW which I don't have practice with so I can't say for sure if it's supported. Some parts are, but I don't know if it will be supported as a whole machine. 2) My notebook is sony vaio vgn-nr21z and cannot install over this computer dragonfly or freebsd Those are practically same systems from point of view of ACPI. I think that OpenBSD will be running on this if ACPI tested only for Windows is not crippled too much. Problem will be for sure that VGA as it's Nvidia. Anyway Sony is well known company as not so fine for people which like something different then mainstream. If you are using Windows on it then fine. If you want to try use something different we will harden it for you as much as possible (like with latest PS3 vs Linux case). 2010/6/16 Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com: It's not because Linux is such a good, but because most of the HW is just cheap crap and Linux is ok with that status. See eg. http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=125783114503531w=2 In the end you must buy HW for OS you want to use. If it's not a choice like for already existing HW then you need to choose OS which will be running of course. Anyway the golden rule Use what's appropriate for you and your use is still valid. It can be anything from any BSD, over Linux, Solaris/OpenSolaris to Windows or MacOS. BTW what notebook do you have? On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 9:09 AM, dark0s Optik shiftco...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to buy a dell server and to install DragonFly. I notice that BSD is more problems than Linux installation, for example, I not be successful to install any BSD system over my notebook. My question are: 1) DragonFlyBSD install successfully over system like this: http://www.dell.com/us/en/business/servers/server-poweredge-t410/pd.aspx?refid=server-poweredge-t410s=bsdcs=04 2) I'd like run some vkernel machine over that system to serve clients, is a good solution or is inadvisable to serve clients with vkernel machines? -- only the paranoid will survive -- only the paranoid will survive
Re: questions over dragonfly
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:19 AM, dark0s Optik shiftco...@gmail.com wrote: 1) But I think configuration is: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=bedw52hc=usl=ens=bsdcs=04kc=server-poweredge-t410 Better configuration, but at least similar CPU and chipset is eg, available here http://www.ixsystems.com/item/20/90 so there is some hope that it may run or may run in the future. 2) My notebook is sony vaio vgn-nr21z and cannot install over this computer dragonfly or freebsd 2010/6/16 Tomas Bodzar tomas.bod...@gmail.com: It's not because Linux is such a good, but because most of the HW is just cheap crap and Linux is ok with that status. See eg. http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=125783114503531w=2 In the end you must buy HW for OS you want to use. If it's not a choice like for already existing HW then you need to choose OS which will be running of course. Anyway the golden rule Use what's appropriate for you and your use is still valid. It can be anything from any BSD, over Linux, Solaris/OpenSolaris to Windows or MacOS. BTW what notebook do you have? On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 9:09 AM, dark0s Optik shiftco...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to buy a dell server and to install DragonFly. I notice that BSD is more problems than Linux installation, for example, I not be successful to install any BSD system over my notebook. My question are: 1) DragonFlyBSD install successfully over system like this: http://www.dell.com/us/en/business/servers/server-poweredge-t410/pd.aspx?refid=server-poweredge-t410s=bsdcs=04 2) I'd like run some vkernel machine over that system to serve clients, is a good solution or is inadvisable to serve clients with vkernel machines? -- only the paranoid will survive -- only the paranoid will survive
