Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread M. Fioretti
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 12:15:53 PM -0800, tk wrote: or quietly being given, a copy of an employer's software meant that MS Office products gained near-ubiquity. Assuming the organization is not SoHo sized, or smaller, unless the person negotiating with Microsoft for licenses is a complete

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread M. Fioretti
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 10:57:05 AM -0500, Felmon Davis wrote: I concur that the rhetoric about drug-dealing is too heated and is inaccurate. even if that were true, in most practical cases is the most effective, if not simply the ONLY way, to make ordinary computer users pay attention for at

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :) +1 Sadly that does seem to be true but having done the shockawe and grabbed their attention it's time to consider getting back to reality Regards from Tom :) On 1 December 2013 10:31, M. Fioretti mfiore...@nexaima.net wrote: On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 10:57:05 AM -0500, Felmon Davis wrote: I

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread John Meyer
Paolo, First off, every company has periodic changes in ui and features when they upgrade. I'd be concerned if somebody was offering me an upgrade that looked and worked exactly like the previous version. Also, using the term steal in regards to discounted prices is more than a bit

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Virgil Arrington
Marco wrote: ... because nobody, including many FOSS advocates, bothers enough to demand open file formats? My guess is that those of us who use LO in general, and those of us on this list, in particular, are a little more computer savvy than the typical office worker using MS-Office. When

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread James Knott
Virgil Arrington wrote: So, my computer has Office (Starter version), LO *and* WordPerfect, so I can talk to just about anybody. No PC-Write??? ;-) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems?

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread tk
Marco . Fioretti wrote: Assuming the organization is not SoHo sized, or smaller, unless the person negotiating with Microsoft for licenses is a complete idiot, the license will allow for each employee to install MSO on their home computer, for the duration of their employment, or the

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Virgil Arrington
James wrote: No PC-Write??? ;-) Oh, stab me in the heart. My 64 bit computer tells me it won't run PC-Write (yes, I've tried). Also, my printers won't recognize DOS printer drivers. At any rate, PC-Write's document files were simple ASCII files with a few formatting codes thrown in; quite

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Virgil Arrington
Jonathan wrote: Assuming the organization is not SoHo sized, or smaller, unless the person negotiating with Microsoft for licenses is a complete idiot, the license will allow for each employee to install MSO on their home computer, for the duration of their employment, or the corporate

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Paul
Well, I've been at a couple of companies which most definitely *did not* allow you to install the software at home. That wasn't part of the license terms, and they only had enough seats for those that needed the software. For some products, Visio being one I recall, I couldn't even install that at

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Paul
On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 19:20:03 -0500 Virgil Arrington cuyfa...@hotmail.com wrote: I wouldn't consider it either cunning or holding people hostage to provide them with a free trial of software that is otherwise only available for a price. That, indeed, has been the essence of shareware -- try

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-30 Thread Peter West
On 30 Nov 2013, at 4:32 pm, M. Fioretti mfiore...@nexaima.net wrote: (*) where give it away for free doesn't mean only free trial periods. It also means keeping the software very easy to pirate so people learn it at home and then throw a tantrum if their company (that can't use pirated

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-30 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :) In Italy you have an excellent resource to call on. Italo Vignoli. http://www.documentfoundation.org/contact/ He is excellent at promoting LibreOffice and is great at doing talks or lectures about LibreOffice. Unlike some FOSS people he is excellent at creating a good impression and at

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-30 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :) Most products have numerous well-known competitors. Normally an offer of a free trial-period is marketed to state that after just a short time of using their product you will see how much better it is than x, y, z because of a, b, c. So they even name some of their competition, drawing

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-30 Thread Kunwar Shivpal Singh
Hi ALL LO users, Have seen this discussion for quite sometime. I am a very basic user - Word, Excel, ppt thats all with just enough knowledge to get my work done. No more no less. Occasionally face problems but prefer to adopt the longer route even to the extent of deleting rewriting. Am 50

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-30 Thread Felmon Davis
On Sat, 30 Nov 2013, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Most products have numerous well-known competitors. Normally an offer of a free trial-period is marketed to state that after just a short time of using their product you will see how much better it is than x, y, z because of a, b, c. So they even

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-30 Thread M Henri Day
2013/11/29 Paolo Debortoli paolo_debort...@yahoo.com hi. I work in a state school, using ms windows and ms office... i think I know the policy of microsoft. I think they use a sort of (apparent) programmed obsolescence for the software. I mean: periodically they add a new version with some

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-30 Thread tk
Peter West wrote: or quietly being given, a copy of an employer's software meant that MS Office products gained near-ubiquity. Assuming the organization is not SoHo sized, or smaller, unless the person negotiating with Microsoft for licenses is a complete idiot, the license will allow for

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-30 Thread James Knott
Peter West wrote: If people writing documents on their private computers had been obliged to but a copy of MS Office, alternatives would have been embraced much more enthusiastically. FWIW, several years ago, I bought a copy of PC-Write for DOS. It was shareware, but if you paid for it,

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-30 Thread Virgil Arrington
Subject: Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office Peter West wrote: If people writing documents on their private computers had been obliged to but a copy of MS Office, alternatives would have been embraced much more

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-30 Thread James Knott
James Knott wrote: FWIW, several years ago, I bought a copy of PC-Write for DOS. It was shareware, but if you paid for it, they sent a manual. I might still have that manual here somewhere. Found it. Now, I wonder if PC-Write is available on the web somewhere. ;-) -- To unsubscribe

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-29 Thread James Knott
Tom Davies wrote: Also on newer machines MS have started running a cunning scheme whereby people get to use a trial version of MS Office which then stops working after a month or so. In order to keep on using it people have to pay an extra bit. That happened to a friend of mine about 3 years

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-29 Thread Paolo Debortoli
hi. I work in a state school, using ms windows and ms office...  i think I know the policy of microsoft.  I think they use a sort of (apparent) programmed obsolescence for the software.  I mean: periodically they add a new version with some changes in interface, macro programming, functions and

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-29 Thread James Knott
John Meyer wrote: I didn't know we considered trialware cunning. They let people create edit documents for a while and then hold them hostage, until the users coughs up for MS Office. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems?

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-29 Thread James Knott
Paolo Debortoli wrote: think microsoft did the same politics with charities and schools: discounted prices (but they are still stealing money somehow...) One thing MS got caught doing was providing free software to charities and then claiming full retail value as a tax deduction. -- To

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-29 Thread John Kennedy
soapbox The distain goes both ways. Remember that Stave Ballmer called open source software (specifically Linux) a cancer. Microsoft has a long history of passing similar opinions about FLOSS as fact and using their monopoly status to cull any competition. Why can you not buy a computer that is

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-29 Thread M. Fioretti
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 19:20:03 PM -0500, Virgil Arrington wrote: James wrote in response to John: I didn't know we considered trialware cunning. They let people create edit documents for a while and then hold them hostage, until the users coughs up for MS Office. I wouldn't consider it

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-11-29 Thread M. Fioretti
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 21:57:50 PM +, Paolo Debortoli wrote: hi. I work in a state school, using ms windows and ms office... i think I know the policy of microsoft. I think they use a sort of (apparent) programmed obsolescence for the software. Hi Paolo, and... NO. Not the software. They