Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Wiebe van der Worp]

On 09-09-16 21:40, Bo Siltberg wrote:

May it is time to file a bug report in the hope that this can be corrected.
I hope I am free to attach your example as well?


Feel free to do so. I really hope it helps stressing the subject.

I've added the text below to the bug report of Bruce and reopened it - 
https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=79234


=

I really do pity that that this described bug is not solved after so 
many years. By writing this, I hope it helps getting the attention it needs.


This text describes a bug in LibreOffice Writer (and OpenOffice), 
concerning stopping re-paginating before a proper - intended - layout is 
generated.


This bug concerns all users. More specific, it concerns all users that 
write longer documents with objects like images where text flow is not 
set to "no wrap".


As suggested, a general accepted work around is to omit text flowing 
around objects. This can be achieved by anchoring objects "as character" 
while setting wrapping to "no wrap". This way very large documents can 
be generated, such as the official LibreOffice documentation.


This solution has three major drawbacks: First, it is impossible to 
optimize layouts, create richer and more reader friendly layouts. 
Second, because of the introduced white spaces left and or right from 
the object, it costs a lot more paper when printing documents with this 
work around. Third, settings like anchoring as character and no wrapping 
are not default settings, making users run into problems unexpected, 
without them having a clue why their document is screwed up.


When normal documents with objects grow in time, there is a point where 
the background re-paginating process stops unexpected without finishing 
rearranging the layout. At this point, Tools > Update... doesn't work, 
while the menu pull down item remains visible, suggesting an unfinished 
re-paginating process. When the document is saved, closed and opened, 
the layout is properly restored in most cases. However, when the 
document grows further, there is a point in time where the layout of the 
document is permanently broken. Without the knowledge of the workarounds 
- and even with this knowledge - it chases power users away from 
LibreOffice.


Typical symptoms of this bug are initial well re-paginated pages, 
followed by blanc pages and or blanc parts of pages.


This bug is easy to reproduce, simply by adding text and objects in a 
default way to a default document.


There seem to be much noise around this subject. One of them is the use 
of too large bitmap objects. Another one that may be, or not, is this 
one: media.vanderworp.org/.dot/.lo/test_s03e24.odt. This may be related, 
I don't know. Main thing is that the focus should be on re-paginating of 
larger documents. A small twenty page text-document with objects in the 
form of complete empty frames is enough to illustrate the problem. For 
example, if a TOC is added at page 1 and two heading levels are used, 
then editing and updating the TOC, toggling between 1 and 2 levels will 
let re-paginating go south.


In large documents, such as instruction manuals or educational works, 
like the official LibreOffice manuals , it is highly desirable that 
objects, such as pictures and quotes, are an integrated part of the text 
components. This bug makes that integration impossible.


I have some test documents that illustrate the problems. 
media.vanderworp.org/.dot/.lo/test_s02e15.odt is an example for creating 
re-paginating errors. If I can be of further assistance, let me know. On 
the global users mailing list there are multiple threads about the subject.




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Met vriendelijke groet,

Wiebe van der Worp


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bo Siltberg]

Thank you, I tried your document and it indeed demonstrated an unpleasant
behaviour.
May it is time to file a bug report in the hope that this can be corrected.
I hope I am free to attach your example as well?


2016-09-09 21:07 GMT+02:00 Wiebe van der Worp :

> On 07-09-16 20:57, Bo Siltberg wrote:
>
> I was able to delete all other text in this document and still reproduce
>> the error. That's good. (The screen shots were taken before that.) I have
>> uploaded this mini version of the LO Users Guide
>>  where
>> this
>> error can be reproduced, at least by me. I would appreciate if someone
>> else
>> could confirm the behaviour that I see. Just place the cursor above the
>> large picture, hit enter / backspace back and forth, which sometimes will
>> make the large picture disappear. This is LO 5.1.5.2 but I do see the
>> problem in 5.2 as well.
>>
>
> I could reproduce the behaviour as you described. It is odd that the big
> frame plus picture cover the margins, but that doesn't seem to be the
> problem.
>
> The picture below is anchored as paragraph and that "explains" the
> behaviour, magical disappearance, after giving an enter.
>
> Anchoring the second picture as character makes it stable again. And
> making a bit more space between the picture by putting an empty paragraph
> before the anchor of the second picture works as well.
>
> It made me a bit curious, maybe the document is a bit contaminated, maybe
> something else. So what I did is saving the bitmaps, saved text as ascii,
> created a brand new document, inserted everything and, surprise, exact the
> same problem. So a one page document with two pictures is enough to get
> into trouble. Even worse, if the pictures are removed from the frame, same
> result.
>
> If you would like to give it a try: http://media.vanderworp.org/.d
> ot/.lo/test_s03e24.odt
>

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Wiebe van der Worp]

On 07-09-16 20:57, Bo Siltberg wrote:


I was able to delete all other text in this document and still reproduce
the error. That's good. (The screen shots were taken before that.) I have
uploaded this mini version of the LO Users Guide
 where this
error can be reproduced, at least by me. I would appreciate if someone else
could confirm the behaviour that I see. Just place the cursor above the
large picture, hit enter / backspace back and forth, which sometimes will
make the large picture disappear. This is LO 5.1.5.2 but I do see the
problem in 5.2 as well.


I could reproduce the behaviour as you described. It is odd that the big 
frame plus picture cover the margins, but that doesn't seem to be the 
problem.


The picture below is anchored as paragraph and that "explains" the 
behaviour, magical disappearance, after giving an enter.


Anchoring the second picture as character makes it stable again. And 
making a bit more space between the picture by putting an empty 
paragraph before the anchor of the second picture works as well.


It made me a bit curious, maybe the document is a bit contaminated, 
maybe something else. So what I did is saving the bitmaps, saved text as 
ascii, created a brand new document, inserted everything and, surprise, 
exact the same problem. So a one page document with two pictures is 
enough to get into trouble. Even worse, if the pictures are removed from 
the frame, same result.


If you would like to give it a try: 
http://media.vanderworp.org/.dot/.lo/test_s03e24.odt


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bruce Byfield]

More than one picture in a row, or even on the same page does seem to be 
common.

>From the chapter on frames in my book:

Throughout LibreOffice, frames are usually less trouble if you follow 
these best practices:
- Add objects when the formatting and writing is done. The objects are 
less likely to move around.

- If possible, format the frame style, not individual frames. 

- Adjust objects immediately after you add them, not later. If 
necessary, experiment with the exact settings first, making notes of all 
the settings. Then delete the experiment and add the frame again, 
applying the settings as the frame is added.

- Never copy and paste frames or objects. Delete a frame and start from 
scratch if you want to move an object.

- Never drag an object to resize or reposition it. Use the right-click 
menu.

- Never use spaces or empty lines to position objects. Instead, always 
use styles.

- Avoid putting two or more images one after the other, unseparated by 
text. The workaround suggested in this chapter is more reliable for 
placing two or more images together. 

These precautions seem to work more reliably in Writer than in Calc, 
Draw, or Impress.


On September 7, 2016 08:57:54 PM Bo Siltberg wrote:
>Thanks for that information. The article do show that it actually is a
>known problem, a very old problem. I'm glad to see that.
>
>I have managed to reproduce a strange error regarding pictures using
>the LO Users Guide. There seem to be a case with a (large) picture
>anchored as character followed by a smaller picture anchored to
>paragraph. The second picture is also wrapped with text to its left,
>but I have not tested if that is a condition for this error to occur.
>The picture 1
>shows
>this setup. I just took two pictures in the document and arranged them
>as described above. Note that frame1 (first picture) comes before
>frame2 (2nd pic) in the image list to the left.
>
>Now, when adding or deleting text before the first picture, it will
>sometimes disappear as seen in picture 2
> As you
>can see, the disappeared picture created lots of free space, the
>document became smaller so I could image this would confuse the page
>formatting function. Note that the order between frame1 and 2 has
>changed. The first picture has been moved after the second. So where
>did it go? By clicking on frame1 I found the picture at the bottom of
>the page, invisible, spanning two pages, see picture 3
> Odd
>indeed.
>
>I was able to delete all other text in this document and still
>reproduce the error. That's good. (The screen shots were taken before
>that.) I have uploaded this mini version of the LO Users Guide
> where
>this error can be reproduced, at least by me. I would appreciate if
>someone else could confirm the behaviour that I see. Just place the
>cursor above the large picture, hit enter / backspace back and forth,
>which sometimes will make the large picture disappear. This is LO
>5.1.5.2 but I do see the problem in 5.2 as well.
>
>A work around is to place the small picture and its text to the left in
>a two-column table, and keep the large picture anchored as character -
>that appears to work fine. The picture in the table is also anchored
>as character if that makes difference. I guess that it may take time
>to find and resolve this error in LO so I will need to apply this work
>around. But I have more than 1000 pictures in my doc so I need to
>gather some strength first before taking that step...
>
>btw, this was one (1) scenario - I can only hope it is the only
>scenario that makes LO mess up the page formatting.
>
>2016-09-06 20:53 GMT+02:00 Bruce Byfield :
>> My questions were an effort to determine whether how you were using
>> styles was the problem. Unfortunately, from your answers, I don't 
>> think so.
>> 
>> However, there are some longstanding quirks in how frames and images
>> work that usually kick in when there are lots of images.
>> 
>> I don't know any easy way to correct your problem, but in future you
>> might try placing images in a table, as described in this article:
>> 
>> http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat->> 
>> Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/The-mysteries-of-positioning-pictures-in-LibreOf
>> fice- OpenOffice
>> 
>> This solution limits options for text wrapping, but does seem to make
>> pictures stay where you place them.
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> On September 6, 2016 05:05:12 AM Bo Siltberg wrote:
>> >Sorry, yes, it points to itself.
>> >
>> >2016-09-05 23:25 GMT+02:00 Bruce Byfield :
>> >> How do you actually apply page styles? Your description of what is
>> >> happening sounds as though you have applied page styles simply by
>> >> clicking on the page, but, from 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bo Siltberg]

Thanks for that information. The article do show that it actually is a
known problem, a very old problem. I'm glad to see that.

I have managed to reproduce a strange error regarding pictures using the LO
Users Guide. There seem to be a case with a (large) picture anchored as
character followed by a smaller picture anchored to paragraph. The second
picture is also wrapped with text to its left, but I have not tested if
that is a condition for this error to occur. The picture 1
shows this
setup. I just took two pictures in the document and arranged them as
described above. Note that frame1 (first picture) comes before frame2 (2nd
pic) in the image list to the left.

Now, when adding or deleting text before the first picture, it will
sometimes disappear as seen in picture 2
 As you can
see, the disappeared picture created lots of free space, the document
became smaller so I could image this would confuse the page formatting
function. Note that the order between frame1 and 2 has changed. The first
picture has been moved after the second. So where did it go? By clicking on
frame1 I found the picture at the bottom of the page, invisible, spanning
two pages, see picture 3
 Odd indeed.

I was able to delete all other text in this document and still reproduce
the error. That's good. (The screen shots were taken before that.) I have
uploaded this mini version of the LO Users Guide
 where this
error can be reproduced, at least by me. I would appreciate if someone else
could confirm the behaviour that I see. Just place the cursor above the
large picture, hit enter / backspace back and forth, which sometimes will
make the large picture disappear. This is LO 5.1.5.2 but I do see the
problem in 5.2 as well.

A work around is to place the small picture and its text to the left in a
two-column table, and keep the large picture anchored as character - that
appears to work fine. The picture in the table is also anchored as
character if that makes difference. I guess that it may take time to find
and resolve this error in LO so I will need to apply this work around. But
I have more than 1000 pictures in my doc so I need to gather some strength
first before taking that step...

btw, this was one (1) scenario - I can only hope it is the only scenario
that makes LO mess up the page formatting.


2016-09-06 20:53 GMT+02:00 Bruce Byfield :

> My questions were an effort to determine whether how you were using
> styles was the problem. Unfortunately, from your answers, I don't  think
> so.
>
> However, there are some longstanding quirks in how frames and images
> work that usually kick in when there are lots of images.
>
> I don't know any easy way to correct your problem, but in future you
> might try placing images in a table, as described in this article:
>
> http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-
> Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/The-mysteries-of-positioning-pictures-in-LibreOffice-
> OpenOffice
>
> This solution limits options for text wrapping, but does seem to make
> pictures stay where you place them.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> On September 6, 2016 05:05:12 AM Bo Siltberg wrote:
> >Sorry, yes, it points to itself.
> >
> >2016-09-05 23:25 GMT+02:00 Bruce Byfield :
> >> How do you actually apply page styles? Your description of what is
> >> happening sounds as though you have applied page styles simply by
> >> clicking on the page, but, from your last reply, that isn't what you
> >> have done.
> >>
> >> Does your Default style have itself as the next style?
> >>
> >> On September 5, 2016 08:57:35 PM Bo Siltberg wrote:
> >> >I have only one page style, the *Default style*, where I have
> >> >adjusted
> >> >the margins a bit, no more.
> >> >I guess I should have created my own page style.
> >> >It could very well be that I have misused the styles concept for
> >> >paragraphs and characters too.
> >> >
> >> >2016-09-05 20:45 GMT+02:00 Bruce Byfield :
> >> >> >> On 04-09-16 20:26, Bo Siltberg wrote:
> >> >> >>> I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using
> >> >> >>> LO
> >> >> >>> 5.1.5.2.
> >> >> >>> After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks
> >> >> >>> in
> >> >> >>> automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks
> >> >> >>> randomly
> >> >> >>> and
> >> >> >>> lots
> >> >> >>> of empty pages in sequence.
> >> >>
> >> >> How are you inserting page styles? Are you using the Next Style
> >> >> field
> >> >> on the Organizer page for page styles?
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
> >> >> Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
> >> >> http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bruce Byfield]

My questions were an effort to determine whether how you were using 
styles was the problem. Unfortunately, from your answers, I don't  think  
so.

However, there are some longstanding quirks in how frames and images 
work that usually kick in when there are lots of images.

I don't know any easy way to correct your problem, but in future you 
might try placing images in a table, as described in this article:

http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/The-mysteries-of-positioning-pictures-in-LibreOffice-OpenOffice

This solution limits options for text wrapping, but does seem to make 
pictures stay where you place them.

Hope this helps.

On September 6, 2016 05:05:12 AM Bo Siltberg wrote:
>Sorry, yes, it points to itself.
>
>2016-09-05 23:25 GMT+02:00 Bruce Byfield :
>> How do you actually apply page styles? Your description of what is
>> happening sounds as though you have applied page styles simply by
>> clicking on the page, but, from your last reply, that isn't what you
>> have done.
>> 
>> Does your Default style have itself as the next style?
>> 
>> On September 5, 2016 08:57:35 PM Bo Siltberg wrote:
>> >I have only one page style, the *Default style*, where I have
>> >adjusted
>> >the margins a bit, no more.
>> >I guess I should have created my own page style.
>> >It could very well be that I have misused the styles concept for
>> >paragraphs and characters too.
>> >
>> >2016-09-05 20:45 GMT+02:00 Bruce Byfield :
>> >> >> On 04-09-16 20:26, Bo Siltberg wrote:
>> >> >>> I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using
>> >> >>> LO
>> >> >>> 5.1.5.2.
>> >> >>> After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks
>> >> >>> in
>> >> >>> automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks
>> >> >>> randomly
>> >> >>> and
>> >> >>> lots
>> >> >>> of empty pages in sequence.
>> >> 
>> >> How are you inserting page styles? Are you using the Next Style
>> >> field
>> >> on the Organizer page for page styles?
>> >> 
>> >> --
>> >> Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
>> >> Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
>> >> http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/
>> >> 
>> >> --
>> >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>> >> Problems?
>> >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to->>
>> 
>> unsubscribe/
>> 
>> >> Posting guidelines + more:
>> >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive:
>> >> http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages
>> >> sent
>> >> to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>> 
>> --
>> Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
>> Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
>> http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/

-- 
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Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bo Siltberg]

Sorry, yes, it points to itself.

2016-09-05 23:25 GMT+02:00 Bruce Byfield :

> How do you actually apply page styles? Your description of what is
> happening sounds as though you have applied page styles simply by
> clicking on the page, but, from your last reply, that isn't what you
> have done.
>
> Does your Default style have itself as the next style?
>
> On September 5, 2016 08:57:35 PM Bo Siltberg wrote:
> >I have only one page style, the *Default style*, where I have adjusted
> >the margins a bit, no more.
> >I guess I should have created my own page style.
> >It could very well be that I have misused the styles concept for
> >paragraphs and characters too.
> >
> >2016-09-05 20:45 GMT+02:00 Bruce Byfield :
> >> >> On 04-09-16 20:26, Bo Siltberg wrote:
> >> >>> I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using LO
> >> >>> 5.1.5.2.
> >> >>> After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks in
> >> >>> automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks randomly
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> lots
> >> >>> of empty pages in sequence.
> >>
> >> How are you inserting page styles? Are you using the Next Style field
> >> on the Organizer page for page styles?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
> >> Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
> >> http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/
> >>
> >> --
> >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> >> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to->>
> unsubscribe/
> >> Posting guidelines + more:
> >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive:
> >> http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent
> >> to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
> --
> Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
> Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
> http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/
>

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bruce Byfield]

How do you actually apply page styles? Your description of what is 
happening sounds as though you have applied page styles simply by 
clicking on the page, but, from your last reply, that isn't what you 
have done.

Does your Default style have itself as the next style?

On September 5, 2016 08:57:35 PM Bo Siltberg wrote:
>I have only one page style, the *Default style*, where I have adjusted
>the margins a bit, no more.
>I guess I should have created my own page style.
>It could very well be that I have misused the styles concept for
>paragraphs and characters too.
>
>2016-09-05 20:45 GMT+02:00 Bruce Byfield :
>> >> On 04-09-16 20:26, Bo Siltberg wrote:
>> >>> I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using LO
>> >>> 5.1.5.2.
>> >>> After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks in
>> >>> automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks randomly
>> >>> and
>> >>> lots
>> >>> of empty pages in sequence.
>> 
>> How are you inserting page styles? Are you using the Next Style field
>> on the Organizer page for page styles?
>> 
>> --
>> Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
>> Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
>> http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/
>> 
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to->> 
>> unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more:
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive:
>> http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent
>> to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

-- 
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Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bo Siltberg]

I have only one page style, the *Default style*, where I have adjusted the
margins a bit, no more.
I guess I should have created my own page style.
It could very well be that I have misused the styles concept for paragraphs
and characters too.

2016-09-05 20:45 GMT+02:00 Bruce Byfield :

> >> On 04-09-16 20:26, Bo Siltberg wrote:
> >>> I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using LO
> >>> 5.1.5.2.
> >>> After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks in
> >>> automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks randomly and
> >>> lots
> >>> of empty pages in sequence.
>
> How are you inserting page styles? Are you using the Next Style field on
> the Organizer page for page styles?
>
> --
> Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
> Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
> http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-
> unsubscribe/
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> deleted
>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bruce Byfield]

>> On 04-09-16 20:26, Bo Siltberg wrote:
>>> I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using LO
>>> 5.1.5.2.
>>> After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks in
>>> automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks randomly and
>>> lots
>>> of empty pages in sequence.

How are you inserting page styles? Are you using the Next Style field on 
the Organizer page for page styles?

-- 
Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bo Siltberg]

Thanks,

Minimizing the window did not have any effect.
I have also tried to use master and sub-documents long time ago, not sure
why I abandoned that idea but I think it was something with slowness or
pagination errors during update of the master document. Besides I had to
manually fix all references to chapters etc. But it might be worth a try
again.

I have also tried to reproduce the problem using the LO user guide, but
failed so far. I thought it could have something to do with wrapping text
on the side since I have lots of pictures aligned to the right of the page
and text to the left, so I changed some figures in the LO UG but failed to
reproduce.

Anyhow, since this does not appear to be a known problem, I guess I will
continue to track down this error to see if I can pinpoint it better. Any
other ideas are welcome. It could be that the document is broken. It comes
originally from Google docs (the old version of gdoc), later converted to
OpenOffice and now LibreOffice. I think I will try to compare the xml in
the archive with the LO UG doc or another fresh document to see if I can
spot anything odd. Maybe I should try to make a new file and paste the old
doc, hoping that eventual errors stays behind? I am unable to export a
xhtml btw, LO hangs. Not sure if that indicates an error in the document?



2016-09-04 23:34 GMT+02:00 Wiebe van der Worp :

> On 04-09-16 20:26, Bo Siltberg wrote:
>
>> I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using LO 5.1.5.2.
>> After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks in
>> automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks randomly and lots
>> of empty pages in sequence.
>>
>
> I am not sure it finishes, it looks like the process times out, or worse,
> crashes.
>
> You could try to use a master document (.odm) with smaller sub-documents.
> It does not solve the problem, formatting is still stopping, but
> reformatting every sub-document/satellite can be forced after opening the
> odm, before exporting to pdf and or printing. On the other hand, if your
> document just opens correctly, you are probably creating extra work with
> this procedure.
>
> From http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/msg46555.html
>
> ===
> * Open document
> * Update index
> * Update selection for every satellite (using navigator)
> * Update index again
> * Export to PDF for printing and distribution
> ===
>
> I have got the impression that it is the pictures LO has
>> problem with since most of these extra page breaks are made where there
>> are
>> pictures nearby.
>>
>
> I agree. And calculating columns goes wrong too in certain large documents.
>
> I have tried anchored them to the paragraph or as a
>> character without any effect that I can see. Closing and reopen the
>> document clears the problem as the initial page formatting works fine.
>>
>
> I did some testing with the large LO-manuals from
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/. They don't suffer
> from this problem, despite the large amount of pictures. This is described
> further in the link to the thread above. These pictures are in a frame,
> with the frame anchored as (not to) character, always followed by an enter.
>
> Unfortunately this causes a lot of white space left and or right from the
> frame when small pictures or listings are involved.
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Girvin Herr]

On 09/04/2016 02:34 PM, Wiebe van der Worp wrote:

On 04-09-16 20:26, Bo Siltberg wrote:
I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using LO 
5.1.5.2.

After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks in
automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks randomly and 
lots

of empty pages in sequence.


I am not sure it finishes, it looks like the process times out, or 
worse, crashes.


You could try to use a master document (.odm) with smaller 
sub-documents. It does not solve the problem, formatting is still 
stopping, but reformatting every sub-document/satellite can be forced 
after opening the odm, before exporting to pdf and or printing. On the 
other hand, if your document just opens correctly, you are probably 
creating extra work with this procedure.


From http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/msg46555.html

===
* Open document
* Update index
* Update selection for every satellite (using navigator)
* Update index again
* Export to PDF for printing and distribution
===


I have got the impression that it is the pictures LO has
problem with since most of these extra page breaks are made where 
there are

pictures nearby.


I agree. And calculating columns goes wrong too in certain large 
documents.



I have tried anchored them to the paragraph or as a
character without any effect that I can see. Closing and reopen the
document clears the problem as the initial page formatting works fine.


I did some testing with the large LO-manuals from 
https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/. They don't suffer 
from this problem, despite the large amount of pictures. This is 
described further in the link to the thread above. These pictures are 
in a frame, with the frame anchored as (not to) character, always 
followed by an enter.


Unfortunately this causes a lot of white space left and or right from 
the frame when small pictures or listings are involved.




Greetings,
I have a document that has many tables of only two columns of about 1 
inch wide.  I set up a Section for each table and formatted the section 
as three page columns to spread the table data over the page and not 
waste paper.  As I add rows to the tables, the tables should expand 
serpentine fashion across the page and when the page fills, it should 
continue on the next page.  What I was occasionally experiencing was 
something similar to what you are seeing.  The tables would prematurely 
advance to the next page before filling the current page, or continue on 
the next page in other than the first section column, and blank pages 
would appear which could not be edited (the cursor could not be put in 
them), but were printed (negating the purpose of saving trees).  This 
anomaly continued to my latest LO 5.0.6.3.  The last time I experienced 
this problem, I found the Tools -> Update -> Page Formatting option and 
having nothing to lose, tried it.  I was pleasantly surprised that the 
pages were reformatted correctly with no blank pages and the table flow 
problems were corrected.


HTH.
Girvin Herr



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Wiebe van der Worp]

On 04-09-16 20:26, Bo Siltberg wrote:

I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using LO 5.1.5.2.
After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks in
automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks randomly and lots
of empty pages in sequence.


I am not sure it finishes, it looks like the process times out, or 
worse, crashes.


You could try to use a master document (.odm) with smaller 
sub-documents. It does not solve the problem, formatting is still 
stopping, but reformatting every sub-document/satellite can be forced 
after opening the odm, before exporting to pdf and or printing. On the 
other hand, if your document just opens correctly, you are probably 
creating extra work with this procedure.


From http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/msg46555.html

===
* Open document
* Update index
* Update selection for every satellite (using navigator)
* Update index again
* Export to PDF for printing and distribution
===


I have got the impression that it is the pictures LO has
problem with since most of these extra page breaks are made where there are
pictures nearby.


I agree. And calculating columns goes wrong too in certain large documents.


I have tried anchored them to the paragraph or as a
character without any effect that I can see. Closing and reopen the
document clears the problem as the initial page formatting works fine.


I did some testing with the large LO-manuals from 
https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/. They don't suffer 
from this problem, despite the large amount of pictures. This is 
described further in the link to the thread above. These pictures are in 
a frame, with the frame anchored as (not to) character, always followed 
by an enter.


Unfortunately this causes a lot of white space left and or right from 
the frame when small pictures or listings are involved.



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bo Siltberg]

Thanks but I think I have those options under control, nothing strange
there. Please note that the page formatting is fine just after loading the
document.

2016-09-04 20:42 GMT+02:00 Tony Arnold :

> Bo,
>
> On Sun, 2016-09-04 at 20:26 +0200, Bo Siltberg wrote:
>
> I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using LO 5.1.5.2.
> After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks in
> automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks randomly and lots
> of empty pages in sequence. The total page count may increase with some 10%
> due to this. I have got the impression that it is the pictures LO has
> problem with since most of these extra page breaks are made where there are
> pictures nearby. I have tried anchored them to the paragraph or as a
> character without any effect that I can see. Closing and reopen the
> document clears the problem as the initial page formatting works fine.
>
> This is actually a very old problem, originating from the time I used OO. I
> have been hoping this was a known problem and worked with. But I am a bit
> confused as to where to search for the question, if it has been brought up
> before. Anyone knows about this?
>
>
> Have a look at the style definitions for your paragraphs and headings and
> look at the Text Flow tab. In there there are a couple of sections on
> Breaks and Options. The latter has options for orphan control and widow
> control which I think could have an effect on what you see.
>
> Regards,
> Tony.
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Tony Arnold]

Bo,

On Sun, 2016-09-04 at 20:26 +0200, Bo Siltberg wrote:

I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using LO 5.1.5.2.
After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks in
automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks randomly and lots
of empty pages in sequence. The total page count may increase with some 10%
due to this. I have got the impression that it is the pictures LO has
problem with since most of these extra page breaks are made where there are
pictures nearby. I have tried anchored them to the paragraph or as a
character without any effect that I can see. Closing and reopen the
document clears the problem as the initial page formatting works fine.

This is actually a very old problem, originating from the time I used OO. I
have been hoping this was a known problem and worked with. But I am a bit
confused as to where to search for the question, if it has been brought up
before. Anyone knows about this?


Have a look at the style definitions for your paragraphs and headings and look 
at the Text Flow tab. In there there are a couple of sections on Breaks and 
Options. The latter has options for orphan control and widow control which I 
think could have an effect on what you see.

Regards,
Tony.


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[libreoffice-users] Page formatting in writer goes nuts

[Bo Siltberg]

I have a large document with lots of pictures currently using LO 5.1.5.2.
After doing some editing, the page formatting function kicks in
automatically but does a bad job, inserting page breaks randomly and lots
of empty pages in sequence. The total page count may increase with some 10%
due to this. I have got the impression that it is the pictures LO has
problem with since most of these extra page breaks are made where there are
pictures nearby. I have tried anchored them to the paragraph or as a
character without any effect that I can see. Closing and reopen the
document clears the problem as the initial page formatting works fine.

This is actually a very old problem, originating from the time I used OO. I
have been hoping this was a known problem and worked with. But I am a bit
confused as to where to search for the question, if it has been brought up
before. Anyone knows about this?

Thanks
Bo

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