Re: [libreoffice-users] RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

[anne-ology]

   just click on any of them to see the comments, suggestions, reviews,
... ... ...



On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Tom Davies  wrote:

Hi :)
> I think that link didn't work.  Well, it didn't for me anyway.  It just
> gave me a search-engine list of articles about Java.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
> > From: anne-ology 
> > To: Tom 
> > Cc: Stuart ; Users@global.libreoffice.org
> > Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2012, 21:00
> > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's
> the accessibility?
> >
> >Here's a listing of alternative java programs -
> >
> >
> http://www.techsupportalert.com/search/google/java?query=java&cx=partner-pub-4337260311855789%3A5365410881&cof=FORID%3A10&sitesearch=&safe=high
> >
> >   along with discussion from various users.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 11:24 AM, V Stuart Foote
> > wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> >>
> >>  Probably, I'm pretty certain this issue has actually been with us since
> >>  the Java JRE 1.6 -> JRE 1.7 crossover. It impacts usability with AT
> > because
> >>  large segments of the GUI are no longer functional with screen and
> brail
> >>  readers under JRE 1.7's Java Accessibility API even though the JAB is
> >>  appears to be delivering identical roles and obejcts.
> >>
> >>  For now, rolling back to a JRE 1.6 and its more functional JAAPI may be
> >>  the best suggestion for LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice users in
> need of
> >>  AT.  The Java dependency may eventually be dropped, depending on where
> >>  things go with BASE and HSQLDB and implementing a non-Java
> accessibility
> >>  bridge based AT for Windows, i.e.an IAccessible2 implementation or
> >>  possibly an AT-SPI2 port.
> >>
> >>  Question beside the workaround of using a JRE 1.6, is if there is much
> >>  developer and TDF Board desire to repair AT and possibly BASE for use
> with
> >>  JRE 1.7 and a more current HSQLDB build.
> >>
> >>  Stuart
> >>
> >>
> >>  From: Tom Davies [tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk]
> >>  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:45 AM
> >>  To: Users@Global.LibreOffice.Org
> >>  Cc: V Stuart Foote
> >>  Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?
> >>
> >>  Hi :)
> >>  Should the devs be made aware of problems with the newer release of
> Java
> >>  (again)?
> >>
> >>  Each new release of Java creates more problems and each is soon found
> to
> >>  have more security issues so another new one needs to be released
> quickly.
> >>   It's a 3rd party product that is difficult to track.
> >>
> >>  Regards from
> >>  Tom :)
> >>
> >>
> >>  From: V Stuart Foote 
> >>  To: accessibil...@global.libreoffice.org
> >>  Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 16:13
> >>  Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?
> >>
> >>  Simon,
> >>
> >>  There appears to be a change in the JRE 1.7 and JAB 2.0.3 that is
> reducing
> >>  the fidelity of the Java Accessibility API rendering of both
> LibreOffice
> >>  and
> >>  OpenOffice.  This is affecting both NVDA and Jaws screen readers.
> >>
> >>  I've been unable to find any Oracle documentation on API changes from
> > the
> >>  2.02 to 2.03  JAB or JAAPI, but something is definitely changed.
> Reviewing
> >>  the JAB delivered document structure with JavaMonkey shows the 2.02
> >>  rendering to be identical with the 2.0.3 rendering--but with JRE 1.7
> its
> >>  JAAPI appears to process the result differently and does not fully
> render
> >>  the results in either screen reader.
> >>
> >>  Are you able to roll back to JRE 1.6 and a JAB 2.0.2 installation  and
> >>  retest the issues you've had with LibreOffice 3.6.4? And otherwise
> > asses AT
> >>  usability with the earlier Java runtimes?
> >>
> >>  Downloads needed to roll back are here:
> >>
> >>  JRE 1.6u38
> >>  <
> >>
> >
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre6u38-downloads-1877409.html
> >>  >
> >>  JWin.exe installer for JAB 2.0.2 <
> >>  http://empowermentzone.com/JWin_setup.exe>
> >>
> >>
> >>  Stuart
> >>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-users] RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think that link didn't work.  Well, it didn't for me anyway.  It just gave me 
a search-engine list of articles about Java.  
Regards from
Tom :)  




- Original Message -
> From: anne-ology 
> To: Tom 
> Cc: Stuart ; Users@global.libreoffice.org
> Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2012, 21:00
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the 
> accessibility?
> 
>        Here's a listing of alternative java programs -
> 
> http://www.techsupportalert.com/search/google/java?query=java&cx=partner-pub-4337260311855789%3A5365410881&cof=FORID%3A10&sitesearch=&safe=high
> 
>           along with discussion from various users.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 11:24 AM, V Stuart Foote 
> wrote:
> 
> Tom,
>> 
>>  Probably, I'm pretty certain this issue has actually been with us since
>>  the Java JRE 1.6 -> JRE 1.7 crossover. It impacts usability with AT 
> because
>>  large segments of the GUI are no longer functional with screen and brail
>>  readers under JRE 1.7's Java Accessibility API even though the JAB is
>>  appears to be delivering identical roles and obejcts.
>> 
>>  For now, rolling back to a JRE 1.6 and its more functional JAAPI may be
>>  the best suggestion for LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice users in need of
>>  AT.  The Java dependency may eventually be dropped, depending on where
>>  things go with BASE and HSQLDB and implementing a non-Java accessibility
>>  bridge based AT for Windows, i.e.an IAccessible2 implementation or
>>  possibly an AT-SPI2 port.
>> 
>>  Question beside the workaround of using a JRE 1.6, is if there is much
>>  developer and TDF Board desire to repair AT and possibly BASE for use with
>>  JRE 1.7 and a more current HSQLDB build.
>> 
>>  Stuart
>> 
>> 
>>  From: Tom Davies [tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk]
>>  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:45 AM
>>  To: Users@Global.LibreOffice.Org
>>  Cc: V Stuart Foote
>>  Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?
>> 
>>  Hi :)
>>  Should the devs be made aware of problems with the newer release of Java
>>  (again)?
>> 
>>  Each new release of Java creates more problems and each is soon found to
>>  have more security issues so another new one needs to be released quickly.
>>   It's a 3rd party product that is difficult to track.
>> 
>>  Regards from
>>  Tom :)
>> 
>> 
>>  From: V Stuart Foote 
>>  To: accessibil...@global.libreoffice.org
>>  Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 16:13
>>  Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?
>> 
>>  Simon,
>> 
>>  There appears to be a change in the JRE 1.7 and JAB 2.0.3 that is reducing
>>  the fidelity of the Java Accessibility API rendering of both LibreOffice
>>  and
>>  OpenOffice.  This is affecting both NVDA and Jaws screen readers.
>> 
>>  I've been unable to find any Oracle documentation on API changes from 
> the
>>  2.02 to 2.03  JAB or JAAPI, but something is definitely changed.  Reviewing
>>  the JAB delivered document structure with JavaMonkey shows the 2.02
>>  rendering to be identical with the 2.0.3 rendering--but with JRE 1.7 its
>>  JAAPI appears to process the result differently and does not fully render
>>  the results in either screen reader.
>> 
>>  Are you able to roll back to JRE 1.6 and a JAB 2.0.2 installation  and
>>  retest the issues you've had with LibreOffice 3.6.4? And otherwise 
> asses AT
>>  usability with the earlier Java runtimes?
>> 
>>  Downloads needed to roll back are here:
>> 
>>  JRE 1.6u38
>>  <
>> 
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre6u38-downloads-1877409.html
>>  >
>>  JWin.exe installer for JAB 2.0.2 <
>>  http://empowermentzone.com/JWin_setup.exe>
>> 
>> 
>>  Stuart
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
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> 

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Re: [libreoffice-users] RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

[anne-ology]

   Here's a listing of alternative java programs -

http://www.techsupportalert.com/search/google/java?query=java&cx=partner-pub-4337260311855789%3A5365410881&cof=FORID%3A10&sitesearch=&safe=high

  along with discussion from various users.



On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 11:24 AM, V Stuart Foote wrote:

Tom,
>
> Probably, I'm pretty certain this issue has actually been with us since
> the Java JRE 1.6 -> JRE 1.7 crossover. It impacts usability with AT because
> large segments of the GUI are no longer functional with screen and brail
> readers under JRE 1.7's Java Accessibility API even though the JAB is
> appears to be delivering identical roles and obejcts.
>
> For now, rolling back to a JRE 1.6 and its more functional JAAPI may be
> the best suggestion for LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice users in need of
> AT.  The Java dependency may eventually be dropped, depending on where
> things go with BASE and HSQLDB and implementing a non-Java accessibility
> bridge based AT for Windows, i.e.an IAccessible2 implementation or
> possibly an AT-SPI2 port.
>
> Question beside the workaround of using a JRE 1.6, is if there is much
> developer and TDF Board desire to repair AT and possibly BASE for use with
> JRE 1.7 and a more current HSQLDB build.
>
> Stuart
>
>
> From: Tom Davies [tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:45 AM
> To: Users@Global.LibreOffice.Org
> Cc: V Stuart Foote
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?
>
> Hi :)
> Should the devs be made aware of problems with the newer release of Java
> (again)?
>
> Each new release of Java creates more problems and each is soon found to
> have more security issues so another new one needs to be released quickly.
>  It's a 3rd party product that is difficult to track.
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
> To: accessibil...@global.libreoffice.org
> Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 16:13
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?
>
> Simon,
>
> There appears to be a change in the JRE 1.7 and JAB 2.0.3 that is reducing
> the fidelity of the Java Accessibility API rendering of both LibreOffice
> and
> OpenOffice.  This is affecting both NVDA and Jaws screen readers.
>
> I've been unable to find any Oracle documentation on API changes from the
> 2.02 to 2.03  JAB or JAAPI, but something is definitely changed.  Reviewing
> the JAB delivered document structure with JavaMonkey shows the 2.02
> rendering to be identical with the 2.0.3 rendering--but with JRE 1.7 its
> JAAPI appears to process the result differently and does not fully render
> the results in either screen reader.
>
> Are you able to roll back to JRE 1.6 and a JAB 2.0.2 installation  and
> retest the issues you've had with LibreOffice 3.6.4? And otherwise asses AT
> usability with the earlier Java runtimes?
>
> Downloads needed to roll back are here:
>
> JRE 1.6u38
> <
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jre6u38-downloads-1877409.html
> >
> JWin.exe installer for JAB 2.0.2 <
> http://empowermentzone.com/JWin_setup.exe>
>
>
> Stuart
>
>

-- 
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[libreoffice-users] RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

[V Stuart Foote]

Tom,

Probably, I'm pretty certain this issue has actually been with us since the 
Java JRE 1.6 -> JRE 1.7 crossover. It impacts usability with AT because large 
segments of the GUI are no longer functional with screen and brail readers 
under JRE 1.7's Java Accessibility API even though the JAB is appears to be 
delivering identical roles and obejcts.

For now, rolling back to a JRE 1.6 and its more functional JAAPI may be the 
best suggestion for LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice users in need of AT.  The 
Java dependency may eventually be dropped, depending on where things go with 
BASE and HSQLDB and implementing a non-Java accessibility bridge based AT for 
Windows, i.e.an IAccessible2 implementation or possibly an AT-SPI2 port.

Question beside the workaround of using a JRE 1.6, is if there is much 
developer and TDF Board desire to repair AT and possibly BASE for use with JRE 
1.7 and a more current HSQLDB build.

Stuart


From: Tom Davies [tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:45 AM
To: Users@Global.LibreOffice.Org
Cc: V Stuart Foote
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

Hi :)
Should the devs be made aware of problems with the newer release of Java 
(again)?

Each new release of Java creates more problems and each is soon found to have 
more security issues so another new one needs to be released quickly.  It's a 
3rd party product that is difficult to track.

Regards from
Tom :)


From: V Stuart Foote 
To: accessibil...@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 16:13
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

Simon,

There appears to be a change in the JRE 1.7 and JAB 2.0.3 that is reducing
the fidelity of the Java Accessibility API rendering of both LibreOffice and
OpenOffice.  This is affecting both NVDA and Jaws screen readers.

I've been unable to find any Oracle documentation on API changes from the
2.02 to 2.03  JAB or JAAPI, but something is definitely changed.  Reviewing
the JAB delivered document structure with JavaMonkey shows the 2.02
rendering to be identical with the 2.0.3 rendering--but with JRE 1.7 its
JAAPI appears to process the result differently and does not fully render
the results in either screen reader.

Are you able to roll back to JRE 1.6 and a JAB 2.0.2 installation  and
retest the issues you've had with LibreOffice 3.6.4? And otherwise asses AT
usability with the earlier Java runtimes?

Downloads needed to roll back are here:

JRE 1.6u38

JWin.exe installer for JAB 2.0.2 


Stuart






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[libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Should the devs be made aware of problems with the newer release of Java 
(again)?  


Each new release of Java creates more problems and each is soon found to have 
more security issues so another new one needs to be released quickly.  It's a 
3rd party product that is difficult to track.  


Regards from
Tom :)  





>
> From: V Stuart Foote 
>To: accessibil...@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 16:13
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] where's the accessibility?
> 
>Simon,
>
>There appears to be a change in the JRE 1.7 and JAB 2.0.3 that is reducing
>the fidelity of the Java Accessibility API rendering of both LibreOffice and
>OpenOffice.  This is affecting both NVDA and Jaws screen readers.
>
>I've been unable to find any Oracle documentation on API changes from the
>2.02 to 2.03  JAB or JAAPI, but something is definitely changed.  Reviewing
>the JAB delivered document structure with JavaMonkey shows the 2.02
>rendering to be identical with the 2.0.3 rendering--but with JRE 1.7 its
>JAAPI appears to process the result differently and does not fully render
>the results in either screen reader.
>
>Are you able to roll back to JRE 1.6 and a JAB 2.0.2 installation  and
>retest the issues you've had with LibreOffice 3.6.4? And otherwise asses AT
>usability with the earlier Java runtimes?
>
>Downloads needed to roll back are here:
>
>JRE 1.6u38
>
>  
>JWin.exe installer for JAB 2.0.2   
>
>
>Stuart
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-where-s-the-accessibility-tp4023600p4026427.html
>Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>-- 
>Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to accessibility+h...@global.libreoffice.org
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>List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
>All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
>
>
>
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