Re: email failure
On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:08:48PM -0800, Richard Vickery wrote: | From: Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us ...snip... | | Why do you think you deserve compensation, what do you think would be | fair and how would you enforce it? | -- Getting rid of the asshole would be a good start Excellent idea and I know just who it should start with. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: OT: procmailrc question
On Wed, Jan 08, 2014 at 03:38:50PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: On 07Jan2014 22:04, Ranjan Maitra maitra.mbox.igno...@inbox.com wrote: I am new to making my own procmail recipes and am a bit stumped with this one. I use sylfilter as my spam-filtering tool: this tool is available at http://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/sylfilter/ [...] Being perhaps foolhardy, I have been trying to get syfilter to work with procmail using my .procmailrc. I was trying to mimic the example here: http://www.math.tohoku.ac.jp/~kuroki/keijiban/procmailrc.txt However, the issue is that I do not quite see how to get this to work because unlike bogofilter, sylfilter does not add anything to the header. If it returns a value 0, the mail is classified as junk, [...] (which the user does not see): Return values: 0 junk (spam) As you say, it does not modify the email. Instead, you want a recipe shaped like this one: # Get rid of duplicates :0 Whc: .msgid.lock | formail -D 16384 .msgid.cache :0 a /dev/null This recipe discards duplicate emails, but by replacing the formail command with your sylfilter command you can have it discard (or file) junk email. Example (untested, needed adapting): # Get rid of duplicates :0 Wc | sylfilter ... :0 a /dev/null Dropping messages to /dev/null is dangerous. It's a good way to lose legit mail that was misclassified. Better to create a spam directory and put mail classified as spam in there. It's easy to skim thru that and pick out any mail that was misclassified. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: NetworkManager
On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 01:24:09PM +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: ...snip.. I wish there were an alternative to NM which worked as well as the old Windows Connect to. Wicd ...snip... -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Reverse E-Mail Blockage.....
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 04:00:02PM -0500, Eddie G. O'Connor wrote: On 12/30/2013 08:48 AM, Tim wrote: Allegedly, on or about 30 December 2013, Mihamina Rakotomandimby sent: SPAM is very subjective. I saw users subscribing to several newsletters for an event (say XMas) and then in February they're too lazy to cleanly unsubscribe: they just tag the message as SPAM, and they argue it's SPAM because they dont want to receive the messages anymore. Dumb, but true. I've seen that often enough. When the this is spam button simply configures their own software, it's merely a dumb thing to do. But when their mail client's spam button *reports* the message as spam, it causes problems for the senders, who did nothing wrong. I'm not doing that though, I don't intentionally sign-up for anything and the deliberately mark it as spam when I'm no longer interested. Every mailing list I've joined I have a genuine interest in, or it's a hobby of mine..(PremierGuitar.com.GuitarFetish.com...etc) I see no real way that my email address got out TO the people who are using it as a spam receptacle! You see no real way? If you post to a list or news group your email address is out there for the bots to harvest. Your address or your IP is in your headers even if you spoof it. All I want is for the mail that I have no intention of reading to be sent either to my spam folder...or else the trash! I guess for now it'll have to be me adding addresses to my filter, until I can get a handle on the Spam Assassin thing..or else I might have to just block everything..and then create filters for the stuff I DO want! but one way or the other...I intend on handling this spam issue before the end of the year!! Thank you all for your input...some of those ideas I'm definitely going to try out.heck ANYTHING'S better than being strapped to your computer for hours at a time! Your best bet is procmail + spam assassin. The trick is to call SA from sendmail, postfix or whatever you have on your system. If you call it from procmailrc the downloads will slow to a crawl. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Reverse E-Mail Blockage.....
On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 05:16:58PM +1030, Tim wrote: Allegedly, on or about 30 December 2013, Eddie G. O'Connor sent: I swear if EVER I find the person who invented spam?...I'm gonna hit him with a whiffle-ball bat! LOL! And we'll be cheering, too. On a whim, I once googled spammer beaten up, and read an amusing story about a ten minute fist fight between a spammer in an internet cafe and a policeman, with the spammer trying to avoid being arrested and trying to eat his USB spam stick at the same time. Oh to be have been a fly on the wall with that one. And I seem to recall reading a Russian spammer got murdered over it. Can't say I'm sorry. I was once asked what it would take to stop a spammer, and my response was cut their hands off. I don't think anything less would be effective. A hollow point, judiciously applied, would be more efficient. It would, however, deprive one of the pleasure of hearing the screams of agony. -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Reverse E-Mail Blockage.....
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 01:41:40AM +1030, Tim wrote: Tim: I've always considered having to check your spam for false positives to make having anti-spam filtering a waste of time. Heinz Diehl: It depends. I've been receiving about 30 spam emails daily, on average. A quick look into my spam-folder is enough to check if any serious email accidently got classified as spam. I'm using a combination of procmail and CRM-114, by the way.. But you don't trust it enough, not to check... If I had to check up on it, I don't consider it trustworthy. You don't entertain the possibility that not all spam filters are 100% correct or that no software is 100% reliable, given the fact that it's all developed by humans, none of whom are 100% infallible? And, probably more to the point, it's an extreme annoyance when you email someone, and their crappy anti-spam software falsely classifies your email as spam. Eventually you give up trying to get a reply from them, and have to phone them for a response. Did it ever cross your mind that the software might not be so crappy, but that the user might not know how to write filters correctly? I really get tired of people blaming the software, and yes, there is some really crappy software out there but a program that has been in widespread use for a long time has almost all the bugs fixed and ain't all that crappy. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Reverse E-Mail Blockage.....
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 10:16:19AM -0600, Dave Ihnat wrote: snip... It's not uncommon for SpamAssassin to catch 400-700 a *day*. When really bad new campaigns start up, sometimes it can go over a thousand. Usually, only 5-10 get through, whereupon I feed 'em to sa-learn. Doesn't your ISP have spam filters or are you the ISP? .snip. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Reverse E-Mail Blockage.....
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:13:24PM -0500, Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. wrote: ...snip.. Yes Joachim this is EXACTLY what I was looking for!..Thank you so much! My Inbox seems to be growing every day with more and more spam. I literally spent a whole hour and a half ...JUST adding email addresses to the Block list Blocking email addresses is completely futile. Are you not aware that spammers use throw away accounts that are frequently changed and also use innocent users computers as bots without the owners knowledge? ...snip... -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: evince
On Mon, Dec 02, 2013 at 04:20:17AM +0100, poma wrote: ...snip.. Et dimitte nobis debita nostra, sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo. Those pompous lessons really paid off. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Why some say rpm hell
On Sun, Dec 01, 2013 at 02:43:50PM +0530, AP wrote: On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 1:40 AM, David dgbo...@gmail.com wrote: Ya'll have seen the AP is gone yet the thread goes on and on? :-) Because the name g is mental deficient. What you wrote has nothing to do with what you quoted. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is something wrong with email server?
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 02:30:44AM -0600, g wrote: On 11/28/2013 11:47 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote: One would normally try a search before asking on a list. 'ap' is not _normal_. ;=) I know but he's like heroin. You can't resist just one more hit. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Why some say rpm hell
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 01:32:11AM +1030, Tim wrote: Allegedly, on or about 28 November 2013, g sent: let out one point. if you will note; X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer is also a thread breaker. I think that one may just be due to a bad webmail client. Some of them are just plain awful, in a plethora of ways. He has posted from at least three other addresses, in the past, which worked properly. Just the gmx.com one that goes bad. I can't say that I remember noticing any behaviour that indicated he was trolling. Though he seems to do quite a bit of commuting, between the chemistry departments of two universities in Britain and France. ;-) Continually asking questions that can be answered with a simple web search qualifies as trolling, especially when he's been repeatedly admonished about it. He also is polluting at least 2 other lists asking the same sort of questions. He's posted under more than one name and from more than one address. Yeah, he definitely qualifies as a troll. Either that or he's a mental deficient. - Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: is something wrong with email server?
On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 09:41:09PM +0530, AP wrote: On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 9:30 PM, Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de wrote: Check this how this list's archive: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2013-November/thread.html You can clearly see the breakage you are causing: All of your postings start a new thread, i.e. replies of yours do not appear in the thread you are replying to. Well thanks for posting this link. As a home user, I really don't know why is this happening...! I am myself amazed. What is the remedy then? (Just uses browser to send mails). Is it a browser's bug? One would normally try a search before asking on a list. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Writing English.
On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 10:29:19AM +1300, Rolf Turner wrote: On 11/23/13 10:17, inode0 wrote: On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Rolf Turner r.tur...@auckland.ac.nz wrote: Just read some stuff on this list about spins, a concept which had not previously impinged itself upon my consciousness. So I went and had a look at the spins.fedoraproject.org page. It started off by saying What is a spin? Fedora spins are alternate version of Fedora, tailored For God's sake, people!!! That's alternative versions!!! Alternate means every other or every second. Alternative means available as another possibility. Saying alternate when you mean alternative is sloppy, lazy thinking and irritates and confuses the reader. Why can't computer geeks learn to write English correctly? In American usage this is acceptable and common. But wrong nevertheless. It conflates two quite distinct ideas, blurs the meaning and diminishes the language. But if it bothers you that much why didn't you just correct it on the wiki in a fraction of the time it took you to rant about it here? Why so hostile? Why rant? The page that I looked at (spins.fedoraproject.org) did not appear to be a Wiki nor to be editable by the user in any way. Anyway, my mission is to enlighten people. If I'd just corrected it, no-one would've noticed. Another English major heard from. I assume you're aware that languages evolve over time in accordance with common usage. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Writing English.
On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 10:33:41AM +1300, Rolf Turner wrote: On 11/24/13 09:30, Robert Holtzman wrote: On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 10:29:19AM +1300, Rolf Turner wrote: SNIP But wrong nevertheless. It conflates two quite distinct ideas, blurs the meaning and diminishes the language. Another English major heard from. Actually not true. Maths honours, Ph.D. maths, M. Stat. But what is your point? I assume you're aware that languages evolve over time in accordance with common usage. This is such a tired and tiresome old cliche that it is not worth responding to. Especially when you don't have a good refutation. Read what I wrote and think, I did. rather than glibly reacting with smug conformism. I didn't. Now that you've told us how marvelous you are, let's get back on the subject of fedora. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Why some say rpm hell
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 08:46:07PM +0530, AP wrote: On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 8:21 PM, g gel...@bellsouth.net wrote: [crap] as in usage as a _noun_, which is defined at; This is really shameful to have people like you.. Pot meet kettle. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: good bye - Fwd: list-moderation - Re: KDE without gnome-shell?
On Thu, Nov 07, 2013 at 06:08:47PM -0500, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Hi On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote: To you it's rude, to me blunt. This will never be resolved as it's a matter of individual taste, enviroment, upbringing, etc. You seem to have a thinner skin than I do. No. I can tolerate it just fine but I shouldn't have to. If you can't be courteous to other users in this list, you aren't following the list guidelines and moderators may choose to step in and at that point, your argument that it is all so very personal and subjective and hence we should all tolerate any abuse that is thrown out won't work. You've stated your position and I've stated mine. End of subject. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: good bye - Fwd: list-moderation - Re: KDE without gnome-shell?
On Thu, Nov 07, 2013 at 12:23:27AM -0500, Rahul Sundaram wrote: HI On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Robert Holtzman wrote: The problem, of course, being that idiots seldom appreciate their idiocy unless it's pointed out to them...bluntly. That is a really weak excuse for being rude. The expectation in Fedora is that everyone should read and follow https://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct To you it's rude, to me blunt. This will never be resolved as it's a matter of individual taste, enviroment, upbringing, etc. You seem to have a thinner skin than I do. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: good bye - Fwd: list-moderation - Re: KDE without gnome-shell?
On Mon, Nov 04, 2013 at 09:34:05PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote: well, you even do not find it worth to answer and continue not release posts if you would act honest and practice what you preach you would have written an answer within the last two days and even a please unsubscribe now would have shown more respect than nothing at all since this bevavior not likely changes i quit *until midnight*, choose if you are fair enough to release at least this goodbye and/or reconsider how to act with people yourself within these few hours in a free community respect also means people are sometimes allowed to be hot-blooded and straight-ahead, given that my seek/give-help ratio is 1/1000 i do not need to creep in the sand in front of anybody because trying hard to not insult people over a long time is not fair enough goodbye and hopefully you find enough people with enough knowledge while 24 hours a day acting like a pure gentleman in any context - i did not meet much of them in the last 35 years, honestly not a single one I'm sorry for pushing the email through moderation. I was offline for a couple of days (traveling to Hong Kong), and I was without internet access. It looks like the other moderators on the list didn't do any moderation in my absence, so all I can do is apologize that it took so long for your message to go through. obviously there is a need to re-hash so explain *here and now* and in the public what do you you expect from me if you insist on this paragraph *UNSUBSCRIBE ME NOW* - period IIRC there was an apology from the moderator for pushing one of your messages thru moderation too quickly. That being said, I'm sorry to see him go. He was a good source of valuable information. BTW, the moderator(s) seem to confuse bluntness with rudeness and/or combatitiveness. For my part, I appreciate bluntness. In case Harald has already unsubscribed, I'm CCing this to him. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: good bye - Fwd: list-moderation - Re: KDE without gnome-shell?
On Wed, Nov 06, 2013 at 04:22:03PM -0500, Rahul Sundaram wrote: Hi On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote: BTW, the moderator(s) seem to confuse bluntness with rudeness and/or combatitiveness. For my part, I appreciate bluntness. Bluntness is often used as a excuse by people who are rude. It is easy enough to see the difference. You are wrong is blunt but is helpful to suggest how it can be improved. You are an idiot is rude and not really justified in this list even if you good technical expertise and it is against Fedora's code of conduct. I will leave it as an exercise to reader to figure out which side they stand on. The problem, of course, being that idiots seldom appreciate their idiocy unless it's pointed out to them...bluntly. I contend that, as has been previously stated in another post, this matter was poorly, clumsily handled. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: OT: Upgrading to Newer Laptop
On Sat, Oct 05, 2013 at 12:05:14PM +1300, Rolf Turner wrote: ...snip... P. S. Based on my experience, ***don't*** buy a Toshiba! Want to expand on that? My stepdaughter has a satellite that I'm thinking of taking over and installing one of the linux distros. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Problems booting Fedora 19 with UEFI
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 01:40:29AM -0700, T.C. Hollingsworth wrote: ...snip... If it was anything but liveusb-creator, it might not have done the necessary magic to make UEFI boot work properly. Grab it from https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ and try remaking the USB drive with it, and see if it works. .snip. Will this liveusb-creator work with other OSs, specifically debian? -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: USB memory stick - where?
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 02:57:39PM +0200, Mihai T. Lazarescu wrote: On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 02:38:05PM +0200, ppq wrote: Am 20.09.2013 14:35, schrieb Timothy Murphy: If I install a memory stick in a Fedora-19 laptop, is there a simple command that will tell me where it is on the filesystem, eg /dev/sdb1 ? I know I can find this indirectly, but is there eg a switch to lsusb that will tell me? lsblk is quite useful Great, thanks! I was wondering if there was no better way than dmesg | tail... :-) I usually use cat /etc/mtab. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped NSA agents who fail to see humor in Doctor Strangelove Key ID 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Enable JavaScript preference checkbox has been removed in Firefox
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 03:53:03PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: ..snip.. smart people never built websites which are unuseable without JS JS is nice for additional features and comfort but only a fool builds a ordinary website which doe snot work without JS Don't try counting the number of web site dev fools out there. You won't live long enough to finish. The security answer here isn't going back to the web of the 90s. It's using modern container and security policy systems to contain the risk no policy will help you in case of a hacked server blowing exploits to visitors and this happens all day somewhere else .snip cause and effect: because these attitude most users starting in a few years from scratch to use computers will be idiots in case of how to handle computers because they never got the chance to learn - hence with this attitude i would never became the poweruser i am now and never had done the switch to work as IT professional while my whole knowledge is from learning by doing +1 this attitude is understandable in case of Apple/Microsoft which try to reduce their support but it is *unacepptable* in the context of free and open software +10 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- Bob Holtzman Our company's mission is to enable data-stream synergies with confluent bullshit mining, signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Firefox and Thunderbird Aug releases
On Thu, Aug 08, 2013 at 05:04:56PM -0400, David wrote: On 8/8/2013 4:47 PM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 08/08/2013 01:34 PM, David wrote: I can certainly agree with not following the Daily/Nightly, Alphas and Betas but the official(s) IMHO should arrive more quickly. The people doing the packaging and testing aren't exactly getting paid for their work. If you want the new releases available sooner, there's nothing stopping you from helping out. Joe did you not read where I said that I was asking for the 'regular Fedora Community users', sucjh as you, and not for myself? And that I was asking because so many other Linux distributions already have them. I already have the latest releases. As for 'helping out'? No. I can't. Programing and computers is not my field. My field is mechanical design and engendering. Before digital calculators and computers we used pencils, paper, chalk boards, and slide rules. :-) Brings me back to the old days. You certainly spell like an engereer. I know. I are one, also mehanical and design. Save your 2H lead, the drafting board shall return!!! -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped Homeland Security agents who fail to see the humor in Doctor Strangelove signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: unstable libreoffice
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 02:44:07AM +0200, lee wrote: Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net writes: On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 01:51:04PM +0200, lee wrote: Martin Skjöldebrand shieldf...@gmail.com writes: Is anyone else seeing a horribly unstable Libreoffice in Fedora 19? I decided against using it quite some time ago because even simple things like mailmerge didn't work, and trying to program something would have required unreasonable learning efforts and appeared not to be feasible anyway because one bug after the other would have needed a workaround. It would have taken me nowhere. Did you think that the devs were sitting around drinking coffee and watching pr0n in the time since you gave up on it? Considerable progress has been made in quite some time. hopefully so LaTeX works great for what I'm doing, and I didn't bother to install LO on Fedora. Give it ten years or so, and LO might be usable. Ten years? Give me a break. Yes, ten years. That gives them plenty of time to add features and to get them to work reliably. There are thousands of people using it right now with great satisfaction. If you haven't checked to see what has been fixed you aren't entitled to make that statement. It turned out to be incredibly buggy, and the devs seemed to be more interested in implementing new features than in fixing bugs. Just give it some time and don't be surprised when it crashes; what's the problem with that? We do not know what these thousands of people use it for and what it takes to satisfy them, so what. I would say, that with the size of the user base, requirements would be quite varied. Out of curiosity, why post this to the fedora list and not the LO list? Try it and see what replies you get. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped Homeland Security agents who fail to see the humor in Doctor Strangelove signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: unstable libreoffice
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 01:51:04PM +0200, lee wrote: Martin Skjöldebrand shieldf...@gmail.com writes: Is anyone else seeing a horribly unstable Libreoffice in Fedora 19? I decided against using it quite some time ago because even simple things like mailmerge didn't work, and trying to program something would have required unreasonable learning efforts and appeared not to be feasible anyway because one bug after the other would have needed a workaround. It would have taken me nowhere. Did you think that the devs were sitting around drinking coffee and watching pr0n in the time since you gave up on it? Considerable progress has been made in quite some time. LaTeX works great for what I'm doing, and I didn't bother to install LO on Fedora. Give it ten years or so, and LO might be usable. Ten years? Give me a break. There are thousands of people using it right now with great satisfaction. If you haven't checked to see what has been fixed you aren't entitled to make that statement. -- Fedora release 19 (Schrödinger’s Cat) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped Homeland Security agents who fail to see the humor in Doctor Strangelove signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: please discontinue to moderate Haralds posts
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 01:44:26AM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: snip... hint: if would really be the asshole you think i would not need to post anything and help others because the ratio seeking and giving answers in my case is 1:1000 over years preach what others have to do are not doing much else substantial +100 -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Etiquette and changing of threads
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:55:15PM -0300, Fernando Lozano wrote: Hi Reindl, first: my intention is *not* to start another epic thread since i am always the unholy prick here after i lose patience maybe others should also reconsider *not* hijacking threads by Thanks for clarification. Changing the subject (and keeping the original one with a [Re:]) is standard procedures in many mailing lists, I didn't know it was not accepted here. My apologies. Re: means the message is a reply to a previous post. If the subject line on the same thread is changed then [was..] is appended. What lists are you referring to? -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Mailing List Etiquette (was Re: can't run sshd on 23456 in Fedora 19)
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 03:48:35PM +0930, Tim wrote: Allegedly, on or about 10 July 2013, Rejy M Cyriac sent: +1 I have learnt to just gloss over the unimportant parts of his mail, and focus on the vast amount of good information that he shares with the community. Live and let live for the common good, I would say. -10 I'm sick of his behaviour. If he modifies his own behaviour, and continue to behave normally, he might get unmoderated. Let him stay moderated until he can stop being an insulting, aggressive, egotistical sod. Pot, meet kettle. Having sociopaths on the list drives people away. New members, old members. They unsubscribe, they delete and ignore entire threads, because they're sick of reading that crap. You're a psychiatrist Now? And despite the support stories, I don't see a *vast* amount of good information coming through. I see small amounts of information, and I see plenty of other posters providing similar and more amounts of good information. And they do so without being an ass. Seriously, stop defending him. There's no excuse for what he does. I'll go even further. Since he's shown no evidence of stopping doing it, unsubscribe him. We're all better off without it. Speak for yourself my dictatorial friend. One of the basic rules of internet usage has always been to grow a thick skin. Is someone forcing you to read his posts? Did you forget where your delete key is? Is there something wrong with being agressive (whatever you think that is)? -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fwd: Re: rant of the day: installing fedora
On Mon, Jul 08, 2013 at 12:12:12PM +0200, François Patte wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 - Message original Sujet: Re: rant of the day: installing fedora Date : Mon, 08 Jul 2013 10:54:28 +0200 De : François Patte francois.pa...@mi.parisdescartes.fr Organisation : Université Paris Descartes Pour : jehan.procac...@tem-tsp.eu Le 08/07/2013 10:02, jehan procaccia a écrit : I did had the possibility to partition manually ! I choosed my disk, uncheck it and check it again then it proposed me to partition manullay (personalisé ). that's for the manual way to install, Thanks for this. I could (I hope, because the feed back for the user is minimal...) keep my previous partitionning. BTW, the logic of this escapes my mind! It is like if there is some secret door! Now, the install has begun and... I don't know what will be installed I had a minimal choice (gnome, xfce...) I can see that a lot of gnome packages will be installed: It will take me a lot of time to get rid of this packages... because I want a totally gnome free installation! And I will have to check carefully what is missing You want to be Gnome free? you can download the KDE, lxde, or xfce spins. I think the last two are Gnome but KDE isn't. Also, no time for installation is displayed, I'm stcked there waiting for an end! Many thanks to all those crapy packagers who think that common people are to stupid to manage their own computer! Wrong! Everyone else seems to be able to manage their own computers. Not sure what your problem is. A poor workman blames his tools. -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: How to mount a external USB drive automatically
On Wed, May 08, 2013 at 03:53:07PM -0500, Anthony wrote: I have an external USB drive that is always connected to my computer. When I log in, it shows up on my desktop (unmounted) and all I have to do is click on it to mount it. It mounts to /run/media/anthony/Storage But I want to have it mount automatically for both me (the system admin) and any other users that login to their accounts. I'll then change individual folder permissions for access control. How can I make it mount automatically since it's already showing in its unmounted state on my desktop? I have never known a usb drive to show up on the desktop without being mounted. Have you looked in /etc/mtab? If so, what does it show? If not, how do you know the drive isn't mounted? -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: hackers
On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 01:01:13PM +0100, Steve Searle wrote: Around 10:40pm on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 (UK time), richard.vicker...@gmail.com scrawled: Nothing Richard, you appear to keep sending emails to the list with the text portion containing no content. I appreciate that this may be done to please those who are fed up with what you do write, but perhaps you could stop sending them altogether. First, he probably won't, just to be spiteful. Second, have you looked at the attachments he sends instead of text? Aside from the list footer, the main attachment is in html. He seems to refuse to comply with internet protocol. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: hackers
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 10:17:53AM -0700, Richard Vickery wrote: .snip. Ignore and move on? Would you say the same thing if we, the state, threw you in prison for the use of the term? Civil society already does. Case in point: use of the term my account has been hacked or ...website had been hacked have negative connotations; instead of looking to fix homes in faulty software, they blame someone for attacking them. This has to change. No, it doesn't *have to* change and will actively resist. People don't normally intend to rob a bank when they go in to make a withdrawal. They have to understand that the same goes for hackers. No, they don't *have to* understand and will actively resist. What you're trying to change is human nature. -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: hackers
On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 06:20:05PM +0530, Shakthi Kannan wrote: Hi, --- On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Bryn M. Reeves b...@redhat.com wrote: | I tend to think the 'hacker' vs. 'cracker' distinction is lost to history in | the mainstream today. \-- Continuing to educate the masses is the only way that people will learn the real meaning. I usually refer them to the following: * Free as in Freedom http://oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ * How to become a hacker http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html I'm sure you've heard the saying Never try to teach a pig to sing. It never works and it irritates the pig. -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: ZDNet Recommends Linux
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 09:20:01PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 11.04.2013 21:14, schrieb Joe Zeff: On 04/11/2013 11:55 AM, Reindl Harald wrote: sarcasm on mailing lists without smileys or whatever indication is pretty dumb - there is not but and no if, it is dumb IMAO, if you can't make your intentions clear without smileys, you should learn how to express yourself better. Of course, one of my hobbies is writing, and I've completed NaNoWriMo six times bullshit in case of a mailing-list with readers all over the world if you make sarcsam mark it or shut up is the rule in this context He Did. Try reading the *whole* post. -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: About that installer...
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 02:32:08PM +1000, Dan Irwin wrote: snip Linux distros need to learn to not cater for novices. If you can't partition, you shouldn't be running Linux. I've been beating the drum about this for years. It's not just partitioning. The various OSs have been being dumbed down for some time, especially the DEs. -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Use existing Partition without formatting when installing F18 ?
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:27:54AM +0100, Oncaphillis wrote: Previous to Fedora 18 I used to share the /boot/ partition /dev/sda1 between two systems (e.g F17 and F16) Now It only seems to be possible to format partitions before you can add it to the installation. Any trick around this ? Back up your system with rsync and restore them after install. Can't think of a reason this wouldn't work but it's cumbersome. -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
/run directory
Just started trying out fc17 after a long time away from Red Hat/Fedora. I have been trying to figure out the logic behind mounting removable media in the /run/media directory or, for that matter, the function of /run. The only thing I've found was in the release notes where it mentions it with no explanation. Searches turned up little. Any pointers? -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: /run directory
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 08:49:24PM -0600, Rex Dieter wrote: Robert Holtzman wrote: Just started trying out fc17 after a long time away from Red Hat/Fedora. I have been trying to figure out the logic behind mounting removable media in the /run/media directory or, for that matter, the function of /run. The only thing I've found was in the release notes where it mentions it with no explanation. Searches turned up little. Any pointers? http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/Release_Notes/sect- Release_Notes-Changes_for_SysAdmin.html See, 3.2.2. /run directory as part of systemd feature. That's why I couldn't find anything. It happened back in fc15 and I kept looking in fc17 docs. Thanks. -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
