On 01/06/2014 10:37 AM, Pete Travis wrote:
That said, I don't think that the few people passionately advocating a
default MTA here have introduced anything that wasn't said in the Change
proposal discussion. Isn't there a better use for all this energy?
Sorry for replying so late, but I've
On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 12:58:41 -0800
Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote:
On 01/06/2014 10:37 AM, Pete Travis wrote:
That said, I don't think that the few people passionately advocating a
default MTA here have introduced anything that wasn't said in the Change
proposal discussion. Isn't there a
Hi
On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Bob Marcan wrote:
It is not a problem how and when the MTA is installed.
It was announced in release notes.
I'm afraid where this all is heading.
Which rug will be pulled out from my feet next time?
Linux is NOT a desktop, it is ALSO desktop.
Well,
On 01/07/2014 12:14 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 6, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de wrote:
Getting rid of all the NFSv3 junk by default I think is valid.
This would mean to lock out many professional use-cases and restrict
Fedora-deployment to amateurish use-cases.
On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 07:48:29 +0100
Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/06/2014 07:37 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
It's obviously a matter of opinion, not fact, as evidenced by the lack of
universal agreement by fairly reasonable people. I think email is such
amazing piles of
Allegedly, on or about 06 January 2014, Bob Marcan sent:
And moving notifications to Gnome? Does everyone use Gnome?
Should i sit all the time behind the monitor?
I don't.
I think emailing this info is the best first default action. The system
administrator may not be the person logged in at
On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 22:53:26 +1030
Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
I think emailing this info is the best first default action.
Subject: OfflineUncorrectableSector
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 07:58:48 +
User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 7/5/10
Device: /dev/sdc [SAT], 7 Offline
On 01/05/2014 02:27 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 4, 2014, at 6:12 PM, Marko Vojinovic vvma...@gmail.com wrote:
But since we are bashing around about unnecessary default services, one
set of services that I would actually like to see removed is the NFS
stack (nfs, nfslock, portmap, ...).
On Jan 6, 2014 3:39 AM, Bob Marcan bob.mar...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 07:48:29 +0100
Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/06/2014 07:37 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
It's obviously a matter of opinion, not fact, as evidenced by the
lack of universal agreement by fairly
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 6:37 AM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote:
It's obviously a matter of opinion, not fact, as evidenced by the lack of
universal agreement by fairly reasonable people. I think email is such
amazing piles of steaming poo that my happiness is inversely
On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 11:37:26 -0700
Pete Travis li...@petetravis.com wrote:
Libnotify works will all the DEs I've used, and there should be - if the DE
is behaving properly - a way to make notifications persistent until
acknowledged.
That said, I don't think that the few people
On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 19:09:00 +0100
Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de wrote:
On 01/05/2014 02:27 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 4, 2014, at 6:12 PM, Marko Vojinovic vvma...@gmail.com
wrote:
But since we are bashing around about unnecessary default
services, one set of services that I
On Jan 6, 2014 12:36 PM, Bob Marcan bob.mar...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 11:37:26 -0700
Pete Travis li...@petetravis.com wrote:
Libnotify works will all the DEs I've used, and there should be - if
the DE
is behaving properly - a way to make notifications persistent until
On Jan 6, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de wrote:
Getting rid of all the NFSv3 junk by default I think is valid.
This would mean to lock out many professional use-cases and restrict
Fedora-deployment to amateurish use-cases.
Right, amateurish cases like pNFS and
On Jan 6, 2014, at 11:37 AM, Pete Travis li...@petetravis.com wrote:
Isn't there a better use for all this energy?
Yes if they want to keep crying about it, throw a formal wake. At least there'd
be booze.
Chris Murphy
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users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or
On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 01:12:40 +
Marko Vojinovic vvma...@gmail.com wrote:
I've used Fedora for as long as it
exists, and I've never seen anyone actually use NFS in real life
scenarios on a typical desktop machine with a GUI. That's also got to
be in the 99% of cases...
I use nfs from Windows
On 01/04/2014 03:13 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 3, 2014, at 6:41 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/04/2014 02:40 AM, Suvayu Ali wrote:
What I fail to follow is, why break the existing mechanism *before* we
have these other future notification mechanisms ready?
*Exactly*
On 01/05/2014 02:27 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
I suspect it's used a ton more than an MTA. I enable sshd on all of my Macs and
Fedora installs as one of the first things done. MTA? Never. Not configured
even one time in 24 years.
Do you have any numbers on that (MTA vs. sshd)?
So sshd should
On 01/05/2014 09:25 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:
I use nfs from Windows 8.1 to Fedora (filestore\backup etc..)
As well as between Fedora Boxes
Have you tried sshfs? We moved to that at work years ago (to share
between Linux boxes, but windows applications for sshfs also exist).
Lars
--
Lars E.
On 01/04/2014 09:45 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 3, 2014, at 11:24 PM, David G. Miller d...@davenjudy.org wrote:
This is as close as I can get to the end of this discussion since I get
the digest so it will have to do. I've seen you claim over and over that
no one uses e-mail for system
On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 10:19:52 +0100
Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
Have you tried sshfs?
No,
We moved to that at work years ago (to share
between Linux boxes, but windows applications for sshfs also exist).
Lars
Will give it a test
http://linhost.info/2012/09/sshfs-in-windows/
On Sat, Jan 04, 2014 at 01:45:34PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote:
Restricting the context to just Fedora, by default it is a desktop OS with
a GUI. That's the default install from live desktop, DVD ISO, and netinst
media. That is the primary Fedora deliverable and experience. It is simply
Well,
On Jan 5, 2014, at 2:31 AM, Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de wrote:
No. IMO, this is just a defect of RH/Fedora based and other Linux distros.
They have not been able to provide a proper, out-of-the-box configuration.
If they had done so, everybody was using it.
So this long running
On 01/05/2014 11:50 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 5, 2014, at 2:31 AM, Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de wrote:
No. IMO, this is just a defect of RH/Fedora based and other Linux distros. They
have not been able to provide a proper, out-of-the-box configuration.
If they had done so,
On Jan 5, 2014, at 9:59 PM, Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de wrote:
In this light, replacing mail as notification mechanism is a substantial
functional regression in generality of deployment.
It's obviously a matter of opinion, not fact, as evidenced by the lack of
universal agreement by
On 01/06/2014 07:37 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
It's obviously a matter of opinion, not fact, as evidenced by the lack of
universal agreement by fairly reasonable people. I think email is such amazing
piles of steaming poo that my happiness is inversely proportional to the
number/rate of emails
OK.
Can we make journald have another configurable option? If it were
possible to simulate this this:
echo Problem in the pit, Boss | mail my_foreman
With something like
echo Problem in the pit, Boss | sendtojournald -also_mail my_foreman
Then you'd be able to get the people who
On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 00:30:36 -0800
Rick Walker wal...@omnisterra.com wrote:
echo Problem in the pit, Boss | sendtojournald -also_mail
my_foreman
Journalctl emails me problem, warning, error, DEAD.
a 10 min cronjob setup, no problem no mail
___
Regards,
Frank
www.frankly3d.com
--
On 01/04/2014 03:13 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 3, 2014, at 6:41 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/04/2014 02:40 AM, Suvayu Ali wrote:
What I fail to follow is, why break the existing mechanism *before* we
have these other future notification mechanisms ready?
*Exactly*
On 01/04/2014 02:59 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
What I fail to follow is, why break the existing mechanism *before* we
have these other future notification mechanisms ready?
1. Most people weren't using it.
How do you know that?
The functionality is there, you not knowing about it is no reason
On 01/04/2014 02:54 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
Maybe. But at least as often or more, it's just becoming decrepit. It refuses
to learn new tricks. It doesn't want to learn to write to a journal or use SNMP
or Gnome desktop notification services, or anything other than emails that 9
out of 10
On Jan 3, 2014, at 11:24 PM, David G. Miller d...@davenjudy.org wrote:
This is as close as I can get to the end of this discussion since I get
the digest so it will have to do. I've seen you claim over and over that
no one uses e-mail for system notifications.
It's hyperbole for me to say
Chris Murphy lists at colorremedies.com writes:
Restricting the context to just Fedora, by default it is a desktop OS with
a GUI. That's the default install
from live desktop, DVD ISO, and netinst media. That is the primary Fedora
deliverable and experience. It
is simply inappropriate for such
On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 13:45:34 -0700
Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote:
Restricting the context to just Fedora, by default it is a desktop OS
with a GUI. That's the default install from live desktop, DVD ISO,
and netinst media. That is the primary Fedora deliverable and
experience.
By
On Jan 4, 2014, at 2:47 PM, Andre Robatino robat...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
I'd really like to be able to get smartd notifications, in GNOME, without
having to configure an MTA at all.
Hmmm…
http://gnomeshell.wordpress.com/2011/08/28/manage-the-startup-applications/
This shows Disk
On Jan 4, 2014, at 6:12 PM, Marko Vojinovic vvma...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 13:45:34 -0700
Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote:
Restricting the context to just Fedora, by default it is a desktop OS
with a GUI. That's the default install from live desktop, DVD ISO,
and
On Thu, 02 Jan 2014 21:50:51 +0100
Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
If it ends up in the journal, how will the user be informed that the
content is in the journal and should (perhaps) be acted upon?
Lars
I hope there is in the cards,
something similar to sealert (gui)
for journal
On 01/03/2014 05:07 AM, Pete Travis wrote:
I think there was some misunderstanding here. If you can't find your
cronjob output in the journal, *your* cron is broken.
Default installation:
[root@tux ~]# rpm -V cronie
[root@tux ~]# rpm -q cronie
cronie-1.4.11-4.fc20.x86_64
[root@tux ~]# rpm -V
On 01/03/2014 12:01 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F20_release_announcement#No_Default_Sendmail.2C_Syslog
Rahul, as long as we have applications that do send mail, we need an MTA
to take care of these mails, or else they are totally lost. Or at least
let those
On 01/03/2014 12:56 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
If you like the MTA method of being notified, install an MTA. Simple. You have
been told this numerous times so don't say you haven't gotten any responses.
My question was how those, that do not have a MTA installed, is supposed
to be notified.
Hi
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 6:10 AM, Lars E. Pettersson wrote:
On 01/03/2014 12:01 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F20_release_announcement#
No_Default_Sendmail.2C_Syslog
Rahul, as long as we have applications that do send mail, we need an MTA
to take care of
On 01/03/2014 12:48 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
I meant how big files, i.e. content, can you send to the journal, not the size
of journal itself.
It accepts a stream with a configurable rate limiter.
No size limit? How does it show up in the kernel? Say that I have the
following data, how is
On 01/03/2014 12:35 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
You talked about home servers and I pointed out that this change was
done only on the desktop live image. Instead of acknowledging that, you
are talking about how some people need an MTA which I don't think anyone
has denied. If some package that
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Lars E. Pettersson wrote:
Yes, instead of of discussing different levels of users, or different
levels of computer systems, I tried to point on the route problem, not
getting astray on tangents out of tangents, to steer the discussion onto a
more constructive
On 01/03/2014 12:57 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
It was you who brought in the topic of home servers when this change was
done only on the desktop live image. It is not clear from your reply
whether you were already aware of this fact or not.
Yes, in response to Yes, all critical notifications
Allegedly, on or about 02 January 2014, Chris Murphy sent:
When the devel@ mega thread appeared in July, was the first time
inyears I went to look for these messages. And I found a pile of
utterly useless crap being generated; and without notification, or a
good reason for them to be generated
On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 01:11:39PM +0100, Lars E. Pettersson wrote:
On 01/03/2014 12:57 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
It was you who brought in the topic of home servers when this change was
done only on the desktop live image. It is not clear from your reply
whether you were already aware of
On Jan 3, 2014 4:08 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/03/2014 05:07 AM, Pete Travis wrote:
I think there was some misunderstanding here. If you can't find your
cronjob output in the journal, *your* cron is broken.
Default installation:
[root@tux ~]# rpm -V cronie
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 3:05 AM, Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 01:37:28PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote:
Clearly it is. Most users don't know about this behavior. And it's
also not done at all on iOS, Android, Windows, OS X. And it's highly
questionable on
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/03/2014 12:01 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F20_release_announcement#No_Default_Sendmail.2C_Syslog
Rahul, as long as we have applications that do send mail, we need an MTA to
take care
Hi Pete,
You seem to be well-versed with journalctl. I hope you don't mind my
asking a few questions.
On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 09:07:29PM -0700, Pete Travis wrote:
$ su -c 'crontab -l'
* * * * * echo TEST TEST
$ crontab -l
* * * * LARSHAPPY=no; if [[ $LARSHAPPY == no ]]; then echo -e
On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 07:27:05PM +, Tom H wrote:
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 3:05 AM, Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+li...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 01:37:28PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote:
Clearly it is. Most users don't know about this behavior. And it's
also not done at all on
On Jan 3, 2014 1:16 PM, Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+li...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Pete,
You seem to be well-versed with journalctl. I hope you don't mind my
asking a few questions.
Sure. I rearranged some things when composing, and as I review, I see I did
so poorly...
On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at
On 01/03/2014 06:31 PM, Pete Travis wrote:
On Jan 3, 2014 4:08 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se
mailto:l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/03/2014 05:07 AM, Pete Travis wrote:
I think there was some misunderstanding here. If you can't find your
cronjob output in the journal, *your* cron is
On Jan 3, 2014 4:12 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/03/2014 06:31 PM, Pete Travis wrote:
On Jan 3, 2014 4:08 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se
mailto:l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/03/2014 05:07 AM, Pete Travis wrote:
I think there was some misunderstanding here.
On 01/03/2014 09:56 PM, Pete Travis wrote:
$ journalctl SYSLOG_IDENTIFIER=CROND -f #filtered for convenience
How do you know which IDENTIFIER to use? I could guess it should be
CROND if I were to look at the output of journalctl in this case; but is
there any canonical way to find
On 01/03/2014 08:32 PM, Tom H wrote:
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
Rahul, as long as we have applications that do send mail, we need an MTA to
take care of these mails, or else they are totally lost. Or at least let
those applications have a
On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 01:56:33PM -0700, Pete Travis wrote:
On Jan 3, 2014 1:16 PM, Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 09:07:29PM -0700, Pete Travis wrote:
$ su -c 'crontab -l'
* * * * * echo TEST TEST
$ crontab -l
* * * * LARSHAPPY=no; if [[
On Jan 3, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 3:05 AM, Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+li...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 01:37:28PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote:
Clearly it is. Most users don't know about this behavior. And it's
also not done at all
On Jan 3, 2014, at 12:32 PM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/03/2014 12:01 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F20_release_announcement#No_Default_Sendmail.2C_Syslog
Rahul, as long as we
On 01/04/2014 02:10 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
Exactly, it's about expectations. As an alternative OS, Fedora simply cannot depend on
some 30 year old archaic user hostile way of unsuccessfully delivering
supposedly important system messages. It's just absurd. And that cannot be fixed by
somehow
On Jan 3, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 07:27:05PM +, Tom H wrote:
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 3:05 AM, Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+li...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 01:37:28PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote:
Clearly it is. Most
On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 06:32:43PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote:
Now there will be some additional users talking to upstream developers
to incorporate better means of notification rather than depending on
emails that obviously aren't being seen by most peopel anyway, but now
with Fedora 20 they
On 01/04/2014 02:40 AM, Suvayu Ali wrote:
What I fail to follow is, why break the existing mechanism *before* we
have these other future notification mechanisms ready?
*Exactly*
Lars
--
Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se
http://www.sm6rpz.se/
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Jan 3, 2014, at 6:30 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/04/2014 02:10 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
Exactly, it's about expectations. As an alternative OS, Fedora simply cannot
depend on some 30 year old archaic user hostile way of unsuccessfully
delivering supposedly important
On Jan 3, 2014, at 6:40 PM, Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 06:32:43PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote:
Now there will be some additional users talking to upstream developers
to incorporate better means of notification rather than depending on
emails that
On Jan 3, 2014, at 6:41 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/04/2014 02:40 AM, Suvayu Ali wrote:
What I fail to follow is, why break the existing mechanism *before* we
have these other future notification mechanisms ready?
*Exactly*
Please, SNMP has been around since 1988.
Chris Murphy writes:
Now there will be some additional users talking to upstream
developers to incorporate better means of notification rather
than depending on emails that obviously aren't being seen by most
peopel anyway,
Was there actually a poll taken about who is using mail on their
Chris Murphy lists at colorremedies.com writes:
On Jan 2, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Lars E. Pettersson lars at homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 11:31 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Yes, all critical notifications are supposed to stay persistent. That
is the right model to alert desktop users about
On Fri, 3 Jan 2014 16:17:43 -0700
Pete Travis li...@petetravis.com wrote:
The debate on default policy is best left to my betters, but as I said
earlier today, I will write something about the journal and
journalctl in the near future.
--Pete
It would be most appreciated,
By someone man
On Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:40:35 -0700
Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote:
ctly how they get it during installation itself.
Why put a feature in the GUI installer to add a user to /etc/aliases
for getting system mail messages when there isn't an MTA? Since the
MTA will need to be
Hi Chris,
On Wed, Jan 01, 2014 at 08:55:46PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 1, 2014, at 7:39 PM, Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+li...@gmail.com wrote:
More to the point, I find it counter productive to _remove_ important
debugging resources/tools irrespective of the technical proficiency
On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 04:07:14AM +0100, Lars E. Pettersson wrote:
Spool mail can be read by mutt, Thunderbird, and probably other mail
clients. What is needed is an easy way to get the mail to a suitable user.
That is where my proposal comes in.
Spool mail is a regular mbox, all email
On 01/02/2014 04:40 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
Why put a feature in the GUI installer to add a user to /etc/aliases for
getting system mail messages when there isn't an MTA? Since the MTA will
need to be installed, edit /etc/aliases at that time? This seems to add
complexity for minimal value.
My
On 01/01/2014 08:47 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
HI
Joe Zeff wrote:
Unless things have changed since the last time I installed Fedora,
firstboot is set to run the first time you boot after the
installation, and that's where you're prompted to create your first
non-root user
I don't know
On 01/01/2014 09:39 PM, Suvayu Ali wrote:
On Thu, Jan 02, 2014 at 02:25:01AM +0100, Lars E. Pettersson wrote:
On 01/02/2014 02:17 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Yes but non technical users wouldn't care to navigate the UI you are
proposing either. The entire proposal only satisfies a very small
On 01/02/2014 04:13 AM, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:40:35 -0700
Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote:
ctly how they get it during installation itself.
Why put a feature in the GUI installer to add a user to /etc/aliases
for getting system mail messages when there isn't an
On Jan 2, 2014, at 3:54 AM, Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+li...@gmail.com wrote:
You misunderstood me. I was questioning the decision to remove an MTA
on a default install. The missing debuging resource/tool in this case
is system mail, not journalctl.
There is no deficiency in omitting the
On Thu, 2 Jan 2014 11:30:53 -0700
Chris Murphy wrote:
There is no deficiency in omitting the installation of something that does
nothing by default. To gain functionality from sendmail required the user
configure it.
Nonsense, both sendmail and postfix make most mail delivery
work as
On 01/02/2014 07:30 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
There is no deficiency in omitting the installation of something that does
nothing by default. To gain functionality from sendmail required the user
configure it.
It delivers mail, so it certainly does something. It is not an idle
process doing
On 01/02/2014 01:30 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 2, 2014, at 3:54 AM, Suvayu Ali fatkasuvayu+li...@gmail.com wrote:
You misunderstood me. I was questioning the decision to remove an MTA
on a default install. The missing debuging resource/tool in this case
is system mail, not journalctl.
On Thu, 2014-01-02 at 13:40 -0500, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jan 2014 11:30:53 -0700
Chris Murphy wrote:
There is no deficiency in omitting the installation of something that does
nothing by default. To gain functionality from sendmail required the user
configure it.
Nonsense,
On Jan 2, 2014, at 5:34 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 04:40 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
be exposed in GUI, to me it sounds like an edge case request.
Important mail to/from root is not an edge case.
So important that by default root isn't informed of these
On 01/02/2014 07:52 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 2, 2014, at 5:34 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
...
Important mail to/from root is not an edge case.
So important that by default root isn't informed of these messages?
Huh?
With sendmail I was not informed of any such
On Jan 2, 2014, at 11:45 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 07:30 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
There is no deficiency in omitting the installation of something that does
nothing by default. To gain functionality from sendmail required the user
configure it.
It delivers
On 01/02/2014 08:09 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 2, 2014, at 11:45 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
It delivers mail, so it certainly does something. It is not an idle process
doing nothing.
I've never seen it do anything since I started using Fedora, except cause
longer boot
On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 07:52 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 2, 2014, at 5:34 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
...
Important mail to/from root is not an edge case.
So important that by default root isn't informed of
On Jan 2, 2014 12:26 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 08:09 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 2, 2014, at 11:45 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
It delivers mail, so it certainly does something. It is not an idle
process doing nothing.
I've never seen it
On 01/02/2014 08:32 PM, Pete Travis wrote:
Before, if you suspected a problem with a crond job, you looked at the
user's mail. Now, if you suspect a problem with a cron job, you look at
the journal.
Is there something you expect to see that is missing from the journal?
Yes, the output of
On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:35 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 08:32 PM, Pete Travis wrote:
Before, if you suspected a problem with a crond job, you looked at the
user's mail. Now, if you suspect a problem with a cron job, you look at
the journal.
Is there something
On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 08:09 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 2, 2014, at 11:45 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
It delivers mail, so it certainly does something. It is not an idle process
doing nothing.
I've never seen
On 01/02/2014 08:31 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
Right. I wasn't informed they exist, therefore they are not important messages.
You not being informed has nothing to do with the importance of the
message content.
(My proposal was a direct hit at this, making it clear for the user that
On 01/02/2014 01:52 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 2, 2014, at 5:34 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 04:40 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
be exposed in GUI, to me it sounds like an edge case request.
Important mail to/from root is not an edge case.
So important that by
On 01/02/2014 08:45 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
Is there something you expect to see that is missing from the journal?
Yes, the output of cron, that is not a part of the journal output.
Then cron is broken.
cron by default sends the output to root
$ head /etc/crontab
SHELL=/bin/bash
On 01/02/2014 02:31 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 07:52 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
On Jan 2, 2014, at 5:34 AM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
...
Important mail to/from root is not an edge case.
So
On 01/02/2014 08:45 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
In the Fedora 19 era it was ~ 30-60 seconds according to systemd-analyze blame. There was
a bug on it in the bugzilla which was blocking the why we boot so slow
tracker for systemd. I think it's since been fixed, not sure, but now that the glory of
On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:49 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 08:31 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
Right. I wasn't informed they exist, therefore they are not important
messages.
You not being informed has nothing to do with the importance of the message
content.
You're
On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:55 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 08:45 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
Is there something you expect to see that is missing from the journal?
Yes, the output of cron, that is not a part of the journal output.
Then cron is broken.
cron by
On 01/02/2014 09:24 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
OH but wait, I don't really want more email because I think email in general
sucks because of abuse just like this. And on top of it, from my sampling, the
messages were useless, so had I been getting them by email, I'd have considered
them spam and
On Jan 2, 2014, at 1:03 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote:
On 01/02/2014 08:45 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
In the Fedora 19 era it was ~ 30-60 seconds according to systemd-analyze
blame. There was a bug on it in the bugzilla which was blocking the why we
boot so slow tracker for
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