so now we have to identify if our application is 64bit compatible or 32bit
compatible.
would not this be a very difficult situation as far as porting to 64bit is
concerned?
Andrew Miehs wrote:
On 29/07/2007, at 9:08 PM, David Smith wrote:
...but people advice that 64bit are 20 - 30%
On 31/07/2007, at 2:04 PM, Mohan2005 wrote:
so now we have to identify if our application is 64bit compatible
or 32bit
compatible.
If your application is only JAVA, then no porting is required.
Andrew
-
To start a new
On Fri, Jul 27, 2007 at 07:25:26PM -0400, Christopher Schultz wrote:
The reverse is true. First of all, no home user ever bought an 8-bit
machine.
Um, ask the owner of an Apple ][ about that. Likewise my Synertek
SYM-1 used an 8-bit 6502 processor, as did designs by Atari,
Commodore, etc.
I think what we're seeing here is the reason for the oft-heard,
seldom-heeded advice that the only benchmark which means anything is
*your application*. Once you see how the code you care about
performs, *then* you can bum a few cycles here and there to tune it
up. Generalities such as 64-bit
There can be hidden dependencies on native code. For example, JDBC
drivers (OCI, ...). Fortunately there are usually corresponding 64 bit
libraries available - you just need to update PATH or LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
- Alexey.
Andrew Miehs wrote:
On 31/07/2007, at 2:04 PM, Mohan2005 wrote:
so
. And this is without multi-threading performance
considerations. As usual, your mileage may vary and only tests can
tell for sure.
- Alexey.
Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
From: Alexey Solofnenko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re:
Tomcat with 8 GB memory
I was under impression that GC
Apologies Ron this was supposed to be directed at Andrew Miehs!
Peter Stavrinides wrote:
From your comments Ron you obviously didn't understand a thing I
wrote, because you have just repeated me!
Andrew Miehs wrote:
On 29/07/2007, at 2:34 PM, Peter Stavrinides wrote:
32 bits processors can
On 30/07/2007, at 8:02 AM, Peter Stavrinides wrote:
Apologies Ron this was supposed to be directed at Andrew Miehs!
Peter Stavrinides wrote:
From your comments Ron you obviously didn't understand a thing I
wrote, because you have just repeated me!
Dear Peter,
Obviously! :-)
On
Andrew,
In theory yes you are right, but remember that a 64bit Integer can also
be calculated by a 32bit processor, but only in two CPU cycles, this is
where the theoretical advantage of the 64 bit architecture lies.
However in reality introducing the 64bit processor also introduces a
| From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Friday, 27 July, 2007 18:25
|
| First of all, no home user ever bought an 8-bit machine.
Oh, I'll bet there are a ton of former Apple ][, TRS-80 and Commodore
Pet/64/VIC owners who would beg to differ...
Yes... and I still have my old Tandy Color Computer :-). It was a good
machine for it's time.
--David
Nelson, Tracy M. wrote:
| From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Friday, 27 July, 2007 18:25
|
| First of all, no home user ever bought an 8-bit machine.
Oh, I'll
From: David Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat with 8 GB memory
Yes... and I still have my old Tandy Color Computer :-).
My Model I TRS-80 still boots... slowly...
- Chuck
THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
MATERIAL and is thus
Nelson, Tracy M. wrote:
| From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Friday, 27 July, 2007 18:25
|
| First of all, no home user ever bought an 8-bit machine.
Oh, I'll bet there are a ton of former Apple ][, TRS-80 and Commodore
Pet/64/VIC owners who would beg to differ...
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David,
David kerber wrote:
Nelson, Tracy M. wrote:
| From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Friday, 27 July, 2007 18:25
| | First of all, no home user ever bought an 8-bit machine.
Oh, I'll bet there are a ton of former
So,... if I have 100s of users planned to hit the same Essbase application
via Tomcat (5.0.28), do I need a 64 bit machine?
And for us dummies, how do we set the heap and/or other
performance-oriented settings?
Karel
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David,
David kerber wrote:
Depends on what the users are doing when they hit your application. If
the are storing lots of data in the session then you'll need enough
ram to hold all the expected data. If they are uploading files, i
would imagine that you will need to have enough ram to hold the
uploaded file before you
On 7/30/07, ben short [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If they are uploading files, i
would imagine that you will need to have enough ram to hold the
uploaded file before you stream it to disk or database. Although
Tomcat might be smart? and store the uploaded files to disk
Nothing to do with
Thanks Ben.
Depends on what the users are doing when they hit your application. If
the are storing lots of data in the session then you'll need enough
ram to hold all the expected data. If they are uploading files, i
would imagine that you will need to have enough ram to hold the
uploaded
Point taken,... thanks Hassan
On 7/30/07, ben short [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If they are uploading files, i
would imagine that you will need to have enough ram to hold the
uploaded file before you stream it to disk or database. Although
Tomcat might be smart? and store the uploaded files
Solofnenko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re:
Tomcat with 8 GB memory
I was under impression that GC does not scale linearly. That means
one 8GB process will be slower than two 4GB processes.
Not true. The time of a full GC using modern algorithms depends
mostly
thanks for the clarifications.
ronatartifact wrote:
If you read the references that I posted, you will see when 32 bit is
faster than 64 bit.
You are not the first guy to ask the question so Microsoft did a pretty
nice test.
Why is no major hardware vendor selling 32 bit servers for
PROTECTED] Subject: Re:
Tomcat with 8 GB memory
I was under impression that GC does not scale linearly. That means
one 8GB process will be slower than two 4GB processes.
Not true. The time of a full GC using modern algorithms depends mostly
on the number and type of live objects
This is a Tomcat forum so lets focus on the role of memory in a Servlet
Engine.
Read the Microsoft paper.
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/aa700838.aspx
Bigger memory space means better performance when you have large
numbers of users.
If you are designing a Tomcat application
not scale linear with
heap size. And this is without multi-threading performance
considerations. As usual, your mileage may vary and only tests can
tell for sure.
- Alexey.
Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
From: Alexey Solofnenko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re:
Tomcat with 8 GB
considerations. As usual, your mileage may vary and only tests can
tell for sure.
- Alexey.
Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
From: Alexey Solofnenko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re:
Tomcat with 8 GB memory
I was under impression that GC does not scale linearly. That means
one 8GB process
On 29/07/2007, at 9:08 PM, David Smith wrote:
...but people advice that 64bit are 20 - 30% slower than the
32bit ...
Could these people offer any evidence to this? Cite any
benchmarks? I would like to see the evidence of this before
believing it to be true.
We did test with out
Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
From: Ron Wheeler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat with 8 GB memory
2GB is the limit for 32 bit applications.
Minor correction: some versions of 32-bit Windows Server have a
boot-time option to use 3 GB for each user process, which allows
From your comments Ron you obviously didn't understand a thing I wrote,
because you have just repeated me!
Andrew Miehs wrote:
On 29/07/2007, at 2:34 PM, Peter Stavrinides wrote:
32 bits processors can represent numbers up to 4,294,967,295 while a
64-bit machine can represent numbers up to
If you read the article that I cited from Microsoft, you will find a
discussion about 32 bit and 64 bit performance that includes a lot of
these discussions including why a 64 bit Java Virtual Machine is better
than a 32 bit version of Java.
A 32 bit OS will limit you to a 2 GB process space
The 32 versus 64 bit was discussed on a different branch of this thread.
- Alexey.
Ron Wheeler wrote:
If you read the article that I cited from Microsoft, you will find a
discussion about 32 bit and 64 bit performance that includes a lot of
these discussions including why a 64 bit Java
Why would you write down something in a serious forum that you just made
up with no basis in fact.
This is just fantasy that you could not have found anywhere unless it
was in a satirical send-up on science and technology.
If any of your stuff was even remotely true, then the top scientists
2GB is the limit for 32 bit applications.
Ron
Joe Nathan wrote:
ronatartifact wrote:
This is what Microsoft has to say on 64 bit using Websphere.
Basically 32bit better for small volume servers that can live with a 2GB
memory ceiling.
If you have applications that can benefit from
From: Ron Wheeler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat with 8 GB memory
2GB is the limit for 32 bit applications.
Minor correction: some versions of 32-bit Windows Server have a
boot-time option to use 3 GB for each user process, which allows a
slightly bigger JVM heap
From: Alexey Solofnenko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat with 8 GB memory
No, each of two 4GB processes will have only a half of the
objects under the same load.
There's a significant amount of objects created by the container and the
webapps that are essentially permanent
Solofnenko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat with 8 GB memory
No, each of two 4GB processes will have only a half of the
objects under the same load.
There's a significant amount of objects created by the container and the
webapps that are essentially permanent; with two JVM
This is what Microsoft has to say on 64 bit using Websphere.
Basically 32bit better for small volume servers that can live with a 2GB
memory ceiling.
Fundemental problem is that a process can only use 2GB no matter how
much memory you have.
Java VM only gets to see 2GB no matter how much
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Joe,
Joe Nathan wrote:
Otherwise 64bit machines suck! That;s why 64bit Windows is not
popular. I don't them many shops selling!
64-bit Windows is not popular because it costs much more than the 32-bit
versions (though MS will send you a 64-bit
On 27/07/2007, at 12:19 PM, Joe Nathan wrote:
Christopher Schultz-2 wrote:
Joe Nathan wrote:
I would discourage to use such machine! 8GB means you are using
64 bit
machine which will be much slower than 32 bit machines.
Huh? Why would a 64-bit machine run slower than a 32-bit machine?
Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
I don't think JVMs have used stop-the-world GC for some time, now.
Strictly speaking, they still do, but global suspends occur much, much
less frequently and for much shorter periods, so in most environments
it's of negligible impact.
Christopher Schultz-2 wrote:
Joe Nathan wrote:
I would discourage to use such machine! 8GB means you are using 64 bit
machine which will be much slower than 32 bit machines.
Huh? Why would a 64-bit machine run slower than a 32-bit machine?
Overall performance depend on many things: CPU
Could you provide some additional information?
So far 64bit machines always outperformed 32bit machines in my
personal benchmarks as well as in third party benchmarks I stumbled
upon.
So it would be great if you could provide some links or explanations.
thank you
leon
On 7/27/07, Joe Nathan
From: Joe Nathan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Overall performance depend on many things: CPU speed, number of CPUs,
memory size, I/O, especially, virtual memory paging, network interface
bandwidth
64bit machines come with better capacity except
cpu computation speed!
Please state your
Leon Rosenberg-3 wrote:
Could you provide some additional information?
So far 64bit machines always outperformed 32bit machines in my
personal benchmarks as well as in third party benchmarks I stumbled
upon.
So it would be great if you could provide some links or explanations.
thank
ronatartifact wrote:
This is what Microsoft has to say on 64 bit using Websphere.
Basically 32bit better for small volume servers that can live with a 2GB
memory ceiling.
If you have applications that can benefit from memory bigger thab 2 or 4GB,
your application is data intensive.
On 7/27/07, Joe Nathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Leon Rosenberg-3 wrote:
Could you provide some additional information?
So far 64bit machines always outperformed 32bit machines in my
personal benchmarks as well as in third party benchmarks I stumbled
upon.
So it would be great if
Christopher Schultz-2 wrote:
64-bit Windows is not popular because it costs much more than the 32-bit
versions (though MS will send you a 64-bit upgrade disk for a small fee
if you already own a copy of Vista). Also, most people out there don't
know what the hell a 64-bit OS is.
Next,
I was under impression that GC does not scale linearly. That means one
8GB process will be slower than two 4GB processes. There are other
considerations too: multi-threading - global locks will lock less
threads (maybe in GC, heap, application logic, ...), but cluster
overhead may be
I had a processor design class and know very well the actual gate design
in bit arithmetic. Aside from the propagation of the carry bit taking a
teeny, tiny bit longer in 64 bit arithmetic, it still occurs in a single
clock cycle.
Further, primitive data type sizes in java are very clearly
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Joe,
Joe Nathan wrote:
Arithmetic operations on 64bit takes app. twice long as 32bits.
You are out of your mind.
Note that hardware clocking time also
slower than 32 machines.
Clock speed has nothing to do with integer width.
- -chris
On 7/27/07, Joe Nathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It does in single operation, but it taks twices clock pulse than 32bit!
You cannot perform binary adder operation in parallel. Speed of operation
is measured with the number of clock pulse. 32bit adder may require
something like 36 clock pulses
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Joe,
Joe Nathan wrote:
Leon Rosenberg-3 wrote:
Sorry, this just sounds plain wrong. If a 64 bit processor comes
with 64 bit register it means that it can make an integer 64 bit
addition (long) in one operation,
It does in single operation,
From: Alexey Solofnenko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat with 8 GB memory
I was under impression that GC does not scale linearly. That
means one 8GB process will be slower than two 4GB processes.
Not true. The time of a full GC using modern algorithms depends mostly
.
Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
From: Alexey Solofnenko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat with 8 GB memory
I was under impression that GC does not scale linearly. That
means one 8GB process will be slower than two 4GB processes.
Not true. The time of a full GC using modern algorithms
I would discourage to use such machine! 8GB means you are using 64 bit
machine which will be much slower than 32 bit machines. Big memory is useful
ONLY if you have applications that can benefit big memory such as database
systems. In Java, if you use lots of memory and create lots of objects,
On 26/07/2007, at 10:57 AM, Joe Nathan wrote:
I would discourage to use such machine! 8GB means you are using 64 bit
machine which will be much slower than 32 bit machines. Big memory
is useful
ONLY if you have applications that can benefit big memory such as
database
systems. In Java, if
Our 64 bit machines outperform our 32 bit machines like night and day
using Tomcat 5, I can only imagine the difference with Tomcat 6... in
any event there is no difference for Tomcat it depends entirely on the
virtual machine.
Big memory is useful ONLY if you have applications that can
From: Joe Nathan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat with 8 GB memory
8GB means you are using 64 bit machine which will be much
slower than 32 bit machines.
Neither conclusion is true. We have 8 GB machines using 32-bit CPUs,
and proper 64-bit systems (those that are not IA64
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Joe,
Joe Nathan wrote:
I would discourage to use such machine! 8GB means you are using 64 bit
machine which will be much slower than 32 bit machines.
Huh? Why would a 64-bit machine run slower than a 32-bit machine? Even
better: why would either
From: lightbulb432 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat with 8 GB memory
The last is at the following link, several performance
graphs for Linux show a slight or sharp decrease in
performance for a given Tomcat instance beyond a certain
number of users! Why is this?
http
When I asked this question I had in mind a few potential downsides to one 8
GB Tomcat. One is memory leaks: if Tomcat starts to leak memory (not sure if
this happens too often, if ever, but I'm speaking purely hypothetically)
then you'd rather not want your single Tomcat to eat up all the memory.
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Lightbulb,
lightbulb432 wrote:
When I asked this question I had in mind a few potential downsides to one 8
GB Tomcat. One is memory leaks: if Tomcat starts to leak memory (not sure if
this happens too often, if ever, but I'm speaking purely
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Lightbulb,
lightbulb432 wrote:
If you have a gigantic server with something like 8 GB of memory, what would
be the best way to run Tomcat 6 on it? One instance, multiple instances, or
divide it up into two or more virtualized servers each with one
From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tomcat with 8 GB memory
Why would a 64-bit machine run slower than a 32-bit machine?
Try an IA64 - the sooner we forget about those the better.
I don't think JVMs have used stop-the-world GC for some time, now.
Strictly
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