Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tanstaafl]

On 12/8/2016 6:22 PM,  wrote:
> On 12/08/2016 11:12 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
>> On 12/7/2016 2:26 PM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
>>> Forth, To be honest, using a Live CD/DVD to boot up the infected Windows
>>> systems, I have found that I do not have the extensive list of cleaning
>>> packages under Linux as I do with Windows.

>> Get/find/make a better live CD/DVD?

> The kicker is finding all of the tools within Linux [Ubuntu] to do all 
> of the cleaning that I do on a Windows system.

Why? There are Windows boot CD/DVD tools you can create yourself too
(ever heard of Windows PE?).

But...

> A lot of anti-virus and other security/cleaning products seem not to be 
> available for Linux users.  On my desktop, that is now just a "file 
> server", I have Comodo's version for Linux. That is the only package - 
> of that type - that I use to keep my Windows systems [ Comodo Internet 
> Suite for Windows ]. There are a lot more security/cleaning packages 
> that I add to it when going through a system, drive, or even a file.  
> That is one reason I have a lot of CPU speed reduced for my work on 
> Win10 systems. I make sure there is a 99.99% chance of nothing getting 
> past my security setup.

99.99% of security is simple common sense, and no software can
substitute for common sense.

I can use a Windows computer on the internet (behind a simple firewall
of course) without any security software whatsoever, and as long as I
don't get careless or sloppy, can remain infection free.

I use ESET to hopefully save me from myself if/when I were to get careless.

So, loading your system down with lots of 'security software' that
significantly slows your computer down is not smart.

> I do have a Live CD for fixing the GRUB issues that installing a new 
> version of Windows causes.

Wouldn't be a problem if it was virtualized.

> I have a Live CD/DVD that has some very basic cleaning software on a 
> dedicated Linux disk.  Most time, the systems I am asked to fix need 
> more fixes than that Live media has options for. Most time these systems 
> cannot update or run the Windows security software.

Which is why you should also create a custom Windows PE boot DVD with
your preferred tools.

Here is something I use (among others), it may give you some ideas:

http://www.aomeitech.com/pebuilder/addtools.html

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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 12/08/2016 11:12 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:

On 12/7/2016 2:26 PM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
 wrote:

Forth, To be honest, using a Live CD/DVD to boot up the infected Windows
systems, I have found that I do not have the extensive list of cleaning
packages under Linux as I do with Windows.

Get/find/make a better live CD/DVD?

The kicker is finding all of the tools within Linux [Ubuntu] to do all 
of the cleaning that I do on a Windows system.
A lot of anti-virus and other security/cleaning products seem not to be 
available for Linux users.  On my desktop, that is now just a "file 
server", I have Comodo's version for Linux. That is the only package - 
of that type - that I use to keep my Windows systems [ Comodo Internet 
Suite for Windows ]. There are a lot more security/cleaning packages 
that I add to it when going through a system, drive, or even a file.  
That is one reason I have a lot of CPU speed reduced for my work on 
Win10 systems. I make sure there is a 99.99% chance of nothing getting 
past my security setup.


I do have a Live CD for fixing the GRUB issues that installing a new 
version of Windows causes.


I have a Live CD/DVD that has some very basic cleaning software on a 
dedicated Linux disk.  Most time, the systems I am asked to fix need 
more fixes than that Live media has options for. Most time these systems 
cannot update or run the Windows security software.



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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Philip Jackson]

On 08/12/16 15:56, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 12/7/2016 11:29 AM, Philip Jackson  wrote:
>> It would be nice if I could just create a VB machine and tell it to load
>> the hard disk which already has the workable installation of Windows 10,
>> together with the couple of applications I use from time to time.
> 
> You mean something like this:
> 
> https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Migrate_Windows
> 
Thanks for this link - it looks promising. But I do see some tech speak
that I'm not familiar with like ACPI and APIC.  A quick look shows that
my Windows installation has AGP440.sys and intelppm.sys so that's
another couple of potential problems.

But I think I'll give it a try over the end of year holiday period after
I've cleared up some outstanding job items.

My primary reason for booting into Windows from time to time (maybe a
couple of times a month) is to use Sibelius music notation software. But
I'm gradually getting used to Musescore in linux so maybe the dependence
on Sibelius will reduce. I wouldn't like to have to reinstall Sibelius
in a virtual machine so it would be ideal if I could use the existing
installation which is in the same box but on another disk.

I regret, somewhat, upgrading 7 to 10. W7 used to boot-up rapidly like
linux but 10 takes from 3 to 5 minutes to be usable -probably because it
was an upgrade and not a clean install. What I find the saddest about
Windows, though, is the way MS updates so often want to install
themselves just when I want to shut down and then so often require a
reboot or even two reboots before shut down. If I am not there to watch
the install and catch the reboot manually, my desktop defaults to linux
when Windows triggers its reboot.

So the next time I want to boot into windows, I find that a previous
update has not yet completed and I'm forced to wait while it does.
Linux updates always go on seamlessly in the background and only
occasionally require a reboot - never in the middle of an installation.

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RE: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Virgil Arrington]

I'll admit my ignorance on all things VB, but why not run Windows as the host 
OS and then run Linux in the VB?

Virgil



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


 Original message 
From: Tanstaafl <tansta...@libertytrek.org>
Date: 12/8/16 9:57 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

On 12/7/2016 11:29 AM, Philip Jackson <philip.jack...@nordnet.fr> wrote:
> It would be nice if I could just create a VB machine and tell it to load
> the hard disk which already has the workable installation of Windows 10,
> together with the couple of applications I use from time to time.

You mean something like this:

https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Migrate_Windows

?

Trying to just use an existing partition/install is possible with VB,
but you will encounter issues occasionally. The above is a much cleaner
way to go.

Also, if you have problems re-activating, it is usually very painless
and automated - you call a toll free number, walk through the prompts,
and get a new code to activate. I've done this many times and never not
gotten reactivated, but everyone has to decide on the moral question
regarding the licensing.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tanstaafl]

On 12/7/2016 2:26 PM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
 wrote:
> Forth, To be honest, using a Live CD/DVD to boot up the infected Windows 
> systems, I have found that I do not have the extensive list of cleaning 
> packages under Linux as I do with Windows.

Get/find/make a better live CD/DVD?

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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tanstaafl]

On 12/7/2016 11:29 AM, Philip Jackson  wrote:
> It would be nice if I could just create a VB machine and tell it to load
> the hard disk which already has the workable installation of Windows 10,
> together with the couple of applications I use from time to time.

You mean something like this:

https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Migrate_Windows

?

Trying to just use an existing partition/install is possible with VB,
but you will encounter issues occasionally. The above is a much cleaner
way to go.

Also, if you have problems re-activating, it is usually very painless
and automated - you call a toll free number, walk through the prompts,
and get a new code to activate. I've done this many times and never not
gotten reactivated, but everyone has to decide on the moral question
regarding the licensing.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I  believe that VirtualBox does also allow you to use an existing Operating
System that is already installed on a hard-drive too.

It's something i still haven't looked into but i have confidence in you
figuring it out.  I still think it might help to test-drive a couple of
virtual machines on your system just to get an idea of what's going on.


There is a lot of fuss that makes virtual machines sound almost
mystical and complicated but in truth it's really just like any other
program.  When you run it or switch it on then it uses resources such as
cpu-cycles and ram. When you switch it off or stop running it (or whatever
you want to call it) then hose resources are "freed up" for you main
machine again.

Unlike most programs you can set how much ram the virtual-machine uses and
the program itself uses a little bit for itself.  So on  my machine i can
run 1 virtual machine and give it just over 1 Gb Ram leaving my main
machine with just under 1Gb of Ram - or i can run 2 virtual machines and
give them each 512Mb of Ram, or other such combination.  I can't run 2
virtual machines that each have 1 Gb Ram at the same time as each other!  I
could have lots of virtual machines, even hundreds of them, that each use
1Gb of Ram as long as i don't run (or switch on) more than 1 at a time.

People like to make virtualisation sound a LOT more complicated than it
really is because it makes them seem smarter or because they don't
understand it well enough it make it sound as simple as it really is.

The tricky bit i trying to figure out how to use the program and VirtualBox
tends to keep things fairly simple imo.

Regards from
Tom :)






On 7 December 2016 at 16:29, Philip Jackson 
wrote:

> On 07/12/16 15:42, Davis, Felmon wrote:
> > On Dec 7, 2016 8:23 AM, "Philip Jackson" 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Would virtualbox (or other) be able to get Windows running on its own
> >> hard disk ? It doesn't have an iso file - just a working version
> >> (licensed) of Windows10.
> >
> > I made an error - a link I sent yesterday I thought addressed this but it
> > wasn't about hosting the Windows stuff under Linux. I will be researching
> > this too.
> >
> > did though install again via licensed (but unactivated) Windows iso and
> > smooth as ice (note: removed repository VB and downloaded Oracle's VB).
> >
> Tom and Felmon,
>
> I don't have a Windows10 installation disk nor an iso file. My Windows
> was originally Windows7 (legit and I must have the Win7 installation
> lurking around somewhere) and I took the free upgrade from MS sometime
> last year.
>
> So, if I understand correctly, if I install VB I will then need to
> install Windows7 in that virtual machine using the original CD/DVD
> disk(s) ? That's where the question of new installation and licensing
> comes in, I suppose.
>
> It would be nice if I could just create a VB machine and tell it to load
> the hard disk which already has the workable installation of Windows 10,
> together with the couple of applications I use from time to time.
>
> By the way, Felmon, why did you reject the distro version of VB and make
> a direct download from Oracle ?
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
VirtualBox is owned by Oracle and subject to their whims.  At the moment it
is still free and supports open standards but all that could easily
change.  Such changes would make it more consistent with other Oracle
projects although such change is unlikely in the case of
VirtualBox.
Regards from
Tom :)




On 7 December 2016 at 18:16, Tanstaafl  wrote:

> On 12/7/2016 10:51 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
>  wrote:
> > If you find Virualbox works well for you, then fine.  Others may have
> > good reasons to not use it.
>
> The only good reasons I can think of not to use it would be an extremely
> underpowered/resourced system, or you're an extreme gamer...
>
> > Same with people using the various Linux distros and different
> > desktop environments.
>
> Virtualbox runs under linux, and I'd be surprised if the vast majority
> of linux users' distro didn't have it available in their standard
> package repo.
>
> > I do not run a Virtualbox type of system on any system since the early
> > 2000's.  I do not want to have any speed reductions for my systems.
>
> Hasn't been a problem in a long time - unless, like I said, you're an
> extreme gamer or something like that.
>
> > With Windows, I have put so much security software on my Windows systems
> > and Windows partitions on the dual boot systems.  That take a lot of
> > processor power to keep my Windows systems free of any "nasties" that
> > are out there to infect and/or destroy my systems.
>
> Good quality security software should not have a significant impact on
> system performance - if it does, you're using the wrong software.
>
> > I am the guy people come to when they do not keep their systems safe
> > from infections and need to have them cleaned up so they can us them
> > again.  Many times I need to remove their drive[s] and run them on my
> > systems as an external drives, since their systems are too infected to
> > reinstall and run the cleaning security packages.
>
> Why go to all that trouble? Just use a bootable CD or USB stick (like
> I've been using for years).
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 12/07/2016 01:16 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:

On 12/7/2016 10:51 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
 wrote:

If you find Virualbox works well for you, then fine.  Others may have
good reasons to not use it.

The only good reasons I can think of not to use it would be an extremely
underpowered/resourced system, or you're an extreme gamer...


Same with people using the various Linux distros and different
desktop environments.

Virtualbox runs under linux, and I'd be surprised if the vast majority
of linux users' distro didn't have it available in their standard
package repo.


I do not run a Virtualbox type of system on any system since the early
2000's.  I do not want to have any speed reductions for my systems.

Hasn't been a problem in a long time - unless, like I said, you're an
extreme gamer or something like that.


With Windows, I have put so much security software on my Windows systems
and Windows partitions on the dual boot systems.  That take a lot of
processor power to keep my Windows systems free of any "nasties" that
are out there to infect and/or destroy my systems.

Good quality security software should not have a significant impact on
system performance - if it does, you're using the wrong software.


I am the guy people come to when they do not keep their systems safe
from infections and need to have them cleaned up so they can us them
again.  Many times I need to remove their drive[s] and run them on my
systems as an external drives, since their systems are too infected to
reinstall and run the cleaning security packages.

Why go to all that trouble? Just use a bootable CD or USB stick (like
I've been using for years).

First, I never have the money to by the "powerful" laptops or desktop 
since 2009.  What I do buy, when I buy new, tends to have Windows 
already installed.  Over the years, I have bought systems with XP, 
Vista, and Win7 installed.  I still have them all, but the XP now has 
Linux and for the Vista I bought the Win7 upgrade disk.  Later the Win7 
systems went to Win10.


Second, I am not a gamer and have no need for, plus not have the money 
for, the really powerful systems.


Third, I have a lot of security packages loaded.  I have Comodo Internet 
Suite [anti virus and firewall, etc.] I have several different types of 
malware and other types of software that detects and fixes the types of 
"nasties" that try to install and infect Windows systems.  I have never 
had any infections, etc., on my Window systems since 2004 or '05.


Forth, To be honest, using a Live CD/DVD to boot up the infected Windows 
systems, I have found that I do not have the extensive list of cleaning 
packages under Linux as I do with Windows. My first line of defense is 
Comodo [Windows or Linux] and then I clean/scrub the system with the 
other detection/cleaning packages I have.  I do find that using a USB 
drive adapter to plug the infected systems to my Windows cleaner 
systems, with the full protections running, can clean an infected drive 
very well.  Since the USB drive is not running as anything but a "data 
drive", I can clean more things this way and faster than any other way - 
so far.


I do what is easiest for me, that works best for me as well. Also, as 
cheaply as possible for my decreasing budget for tech "stuff".




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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tanstaafl]

On 12/7/2016 10:51 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
 wrote:
> If you find Virualbox works well for you, then fine.  Others may have 
> good reasons to not use it.

The only good reasons I can think of not to use it would be an extremely
underpowered/resourced system, or you're an extreme gamer...

> Same with people using the various Linux distros and different
> desktop environments.

Virtualbox runs under linux, and I'd be surprised if the vast majority
of linux users' distro didn't have it available in their standard
package repo.

> I do not run a Virtualbox type of system on any system since the early 
> 2000's.  I do not want to have any speed reductions for my systems.

Hasn't been a problem in a long time - unless, like I said, you're an
extreme gamer or something like that.

> With Windows, I have put so much security software on my Windows systems 
> and Windows partitions on the dual boot systems.  That take a lot of 
> processor power to keep my Windows systems free of any "nasties" that 
> are out there to infect and/or destroy my systems.

Good quality security software should not have a significant impact on
system performance - if it does, you're using the wrong software.

> I am the guy people come to when they do not keep their systems safe 
> from infections and need to have them cleaned up so they can us them 
> again.  Many times I need to remove their drive[s] and run them on my 
> systems as an external drives, since their systems are too infected to 
> reinstall and run the cleaning security packages.

Why go to all that trouble? Just use a bootable CD or USB stick (like
I've been using for years).

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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Felmon Davis]

On Wed, 7 Dec 2016, Philip Jackson wrote:



[...]

It would be nice if I could just create a VB machine and tell it to load
the hard disk which already has the workable installation of Windows 10,
together with the couple of applications I use from time to time.


I know, I know.

I suspect it's not possible. when I get some more time maybe tonight 
I'll dig around more earnestly.



By the way, Felmon, why did you reject the distro version of VB and make
a direct download from Oracle ?


I kept getting errors having to do with missing modules (vboxdrv) and 
looking around I saw others having the same problem. landed on some 
posts about using Oracle's so purged the repository stuff and Oracle 
installed pretty much without a problem (except some errors of 
misunderstanding on my part).


not being used to it everytime I see it, it's a shock - Windows 7 in a 
tiny little window on a Debian desktop!


f.

--
Felmon Davis

To say you got a vote of confidence would be to say you needed a vote 
of confidence.

-- Andrew Young


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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Philip Jackson]

On 07/12/16 15:42, Davis, Felmon wrote:
> On Dec 7, 2016 8:23 AM, "Philip Jackson"  wrote:
> 
>> Would virtualbox (or other) be able to get Windows running on its own
>> hard disk ? It doesn't have an iso file - just a working version
>> (licensed) of Windows10.
> 
> I made an error - a link I sent yesterday I thought addressed this but it
> wasn't about hosting the Windows stuff under Linux. I will be researching
> this too.
> 
> did though install again via licensed (but unactivated) Windows iso and
> smooth as ice (note: removed repository VB and downloaded Oracle's VB).
> 
Tom and Felmon,

I don't have a Windows10 installation disk nor an iso file. My Windows
was originally Windows7 (legit and I must have the Win7 installation
lurking around somewhere) and I took the free upgrade from MS sometime
last year.

So, if I understand correctly, if I install VB I will then need to
install Windows7 in that virtual machine using the original CD/DVD
disk(s) ? That's where the question of new installation and licensing
comes in, I suppose.

It would be nice if I could just create a VB machine and tell it to load
the hard disk which already has the workable installation of Windows 10,
together with the couple of applications I use from time to time.

By the way, Felmon, why did you reject the distro version of VB and make
a direct download from Oracle ?


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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

On 12/06/2016 10:32 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:

On 12/1/2016 10:36 AM, Paolo Debortoli  wrote:

I am a linux ubuntu user since 12 years and noticed that since win
8.1 it is hard to install and maintain dual boot systems.

Can't imagine why anyone would mess with dual boot these days with
something like Virtualbox available.



If you find Virualbox works well for you, then fine.  Others may have 
good reasons to not use it.  Same with people using the various Linux 
distros and different desktop environments.


I do not run a Virtualbox type of system on any system since the early 
2000's.  I do not want to have any speed reductions for my systems.  
With Windows, I have put so much security software on my Windows systems 
and Windows partitions on the dual boot systems.  That take a lot of 
processor power to keep my Windows systems free of any "nasties" that 
are out there to infect and/or destroy my systems.


I am the guy people come to when they do not keep their systems safe 
from infections and need to have them cleaned up so they can us them 
again.  Many times I need to remove their drive[s] and run them on my 
systems as an external drives, since their systems are too infected to 
reinstall and run the cleaning security packages.




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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Davis, Felmon]

On Dec 7, 2016 8:23 AM, "Philip Jackson"  wrote:

> Would virtualbox (or other) be able to get Windows running on its own
> hard disk ? It doesn't have an iso file - just a working version
> (licensed) of Windows10.

I made an error - a link I sent yesterday I thought addressed this but it
wasn't about hosting the Windows stuff under Linux. I will be researching
this too.

did though install again via licensed (but unactivated) Windows iso and
smooth as ice (note: removed repository VB and downloaded Oracle's VB).

f.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
VirtualBox gives an option  to either create a virtual-drive or use an
iso.  The virtual-drive would then be a large file sitting on your real
hard-drive.

You can then use the menus at the top of VirtualBox to set-up the Windows
installer Cd to be read by the Virtual Machine either directly as an iso
(as a virtual cd/dvd-drive) or by reading the real world cd/dvd-drive
attached to the physical machine.


It might be that it prefers .img rather than isos but both are pretty much
the same, just different formats for the same thing.  I think VirtualBox
can handle both but may make it easier to use one rather than the other.
Also VirtualBox can use various types of virtual hard-drive.  There is an
internationally agreed one that works on many different vms but, of course,
Oracle prefer that you use their own format.  I tend to use their own one.

In terms of hardware in times gone by people have been able to use one
Windows licence as part of their dual-boot, and then re-use it on a virtual
machine.  The standard argument was that "it is the same hardware".  Now
that virtualisation is more mainstream the licensing people at Microsquish
might not be quite so bamboozled but it really is the same hardware and you
are only using the licence once.  Another successful argument used to be
that it was just a reinstall to the same hardware and just not even mention
virtual-machines at all because it's a technicality that they don't really
need to know about.


If using Virtual Machines is still new then it might be a good idea to
set-up a virtual machine and install Fedora, or Ubuntu, or Mint to it - or
try running a "LiveCd/Dvd" session in the virtual machine.  Then you can
build and destroy quite a few virtual machines without having to deal with
licensing issues.  A few "distro hoppers" use virtual machine to test-drive
distros that they have never used  before or to experiment and play
around.  It's a good way to learn and then installing Windows should be a
fair bit easier.  It's what i do each time i try using virtual machines
because i never use them often enough to be really comfortable with them.
Good luck and regards from
Tom :)





On 7 December 2016 at 13:22, Philip Jackson 
wrote:

> On 07/12/16 10:12, Felmon Davis wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2016, Cley Faye wrote:
> >
> >> 2016-12-07 9:10 GMT+01:00 Mike Scott :
> >>
> >>> A windows licence might be tied to hardware, for example. So if I need
> >>> occasional windows use (eg to update my satnav - g!) but
> >>> otherwise use
> >>> linux, dual-boot is a necessity. Such a licence probably wouldn't
> >>> work in a
> >>> virtual machine.
> >>
> >>
> >> ​There's always this possibility:
> >> https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/
> >
> > also this which I am about to try:
> >  same-partition-on-y-493223329>
> >
> >
> > "Once you're finished, you'll be able to reboot into your secondary OS
> > and run it natively, or run it in your favorite virtualization program
> > without having to reboot. You'll get the best of both worlds and you'll
> > never have to decide between the two again."
>
> Thanks Felmon, Cley and Mike -  I'll look into the links.
>
> I have Windows 10 (was Windows7) on a separate hard disk and I've hung
> on to it because I occasionally want to use a couple of applications
> that don't run under linux (or even very well using Wine, judging from
> comments on the web).  My linux is on its own hard disk and is my
> default boot - if I need Windows, I just have to hold F12 on bootup and
> select the Wind drive from a menu supplied by the motherboard.
>
> Would virtualbox (or other) be able to get Windows running on its own
> hard disk ? It doesn't have an iso file - just a working version
> (licensed) of Windows10.
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Philip Jackson]

On 07/12/16 10:12, Felmon Davis wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Dec 2016, Cley Faye wrote:
> 
>> 2016-12-07 9:10 GMT+01:00 Mike Scott :
>>
>>> A windows licence might be tied to hardware, for example. So if I need
>>> occasional windows use (eg to update my satnav - g!) but
>>> otherwise use
>>> linux, dual-boot is a necessity. Such a licence probably wouldn't
>>> work in a
>>> virtual machine.
>>
>>
>> ​There's always this possibility:
>> https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/
> 
> also this which I am about to try:
> 
> 
> 
> "Once you're finished, you'll be able to reboot into your secondary OS
> and run it natively, or run it in your favorite virtualization program
> without having to reboot. You'll get the best of both worlds and you'll
> never have to decide between the two again."

Thanks Felmon, Cley and Mike -  I'll look into the links.

I have Windows 10 (was Windows7) on a separate hard disk and I've hung
on to it because I occasionally want to use a couple of applications
that don't run under linux (or even very well using Wine, judging from
comments on the web).  My linux is on its own hard disk and is my
default boot - if I need Windows, I just have to hold F12 on bootup and
select the Wind drive from a menu supplied by the motherboard.

Would virtualbox (or other) be able to get Windows running on its own
hard disk ? It doesn't have an iso file - just a working version
(licensed) of Windows10.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Felmon Davis]

On Wed, 7 Dec 2016, Cley Faye wrote:


2016-12-07 9:10 GMT+01:00 Mike Scott :


A windows licence might be tied to hardware, for example. So if I need
occasional windows use (eg to update my satnav - g!) but otherwise use
linux, dual-boot is a necessity. Such a licence probably wouldn't work in a
virtual machine.



​There's always this possibility:
https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/


also this which I am about to try:


"Once you're finished, you'll be able to reboot into your secondary OS 
and run it natively, or run it in your favorite virtualization program 
without having to reboot. You'll get the best of both worlds and 
you'll never have to decide between the two again."


f.

--
Felmon Davis

Where it is a duty to worship the sun it is pretty sure to be a crime 
to examine the laws of heat.

-- Christopher Morley

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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Cley Faye]

2016-12-07 9:10 GMT+01:00 Mike Scott :

> A windows licence might be tied to hardware, for example. So if I need
> occasional windows use (eg to update my satnav - g!) but otherwise use
> linux, dual-boot is a necessity. Such a licence probably wouldn't work in a
> virtual machine.


​There's always this possibility:
https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/

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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Felmon Davis]

On Wed, 7 Dec 2016, Mike Scott wrote:




On 06/12/16 16:32, Tanstaafl wrote:

Can't imagine why anyone would mess with dual boot these days with
something like Virtualbox available.


A windows licence might be tied to hardware, for example. So if I need 
occasional windows use (eg to update my satnav - g!) but otherwise 
use linux, dual-boot is a necessity. Such a licence probably wouldn't 
work in a virtual machine.


I don't know about that but you can buy a license relatively cheaply 
for Windows 7 Pro.


haven't shopped for Windows 10. (at best I'd only purchase Windows 10 
Pro because of the forced updates.)


Windows 7 Pro in a VM seemed to work fine with instant access to wifi, 
etc.


f.

--
Felmon Davis

What we anticipate seldom occurs; what we least expect generally 
happens.

-- Bengamin Disraeli


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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Mike Scott]

On 06/12/16 16:32, Tanstaafl wrote:

Can't imagine why anyone would mess with dual boot these days with
something like Virtualbox available.


A windows licence might be tied to hardware, for example. So if I need 
occasional windows use (eg to update my satnav - g!) but otherwise 
use linux, dual-boot is a necessity. Such a licence probably wouldn't 
work in a virtual machine.




--
Mike Scott (unet2  [deletethis] scottsonline.org.uk)
Harlow Essex England
"The only way is Brexit" -- anon.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Felmon Davis]

On Wed, 7 Dec 2016, Philip Jackson wrote:


On 06/12/16 16:32, Tanstaafl wrote:

Can't imagine why anyone would mess with dual boot these days with
something like Virtualbox available.


Can you point to an easily understandable 'howto' on installing and
using Windows in VirtualBox ?
Thanks.


just did this myself using Oracle:


I'm on a debian-based system so 'sudo dkpg -i deb' got me going. I 
have a license for Windows 7 so I pointed VB to the Windows 7 iso. it 
is almost self-explanatory but have a look at:




worked wonderfully until the computer failed (unrelated).

f.

--
Felmon Davis

Unnamed Law:
If it happens, it must be possible.


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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Philip Jackson]

On 06/12/16 16:32, Tanstaafl wrote:
> Can't imagine why anyone would mess with dual boot these days with
> something like Virtualbox available.

Can you point to an easily understandable 'howto' on installing and
using Windows in VirtualBox ?
Thanks.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tanstaafl]

On 12/1/2016 10:36 AM, Paolo Debortoli  wrote:
> I am a linux ubuntu user since 12 years and noticed that since win
> 8.1 it is hard to install and maintain dual boot systems.

Can't imagine why anyone would mess with dual boot these days with
something like Virtualbox available.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

This laptop, has had "normal" upgrades.  I never seen the upgrade icon 
that was "hidden" in the app stack on the right side of the task bar.  I 
was looking to halt/exit an app that keeps trying to run and slow down 
the booting.  So far, I have not seen it on this laptop.  So, maybe the 
Win10 "professional" laptop shows up first, or not. This laptop is a 
Win10 "home" version - Win7 professional upgraded to Win10's version, 
and Win7 Home went to Win10's version of that type of system.



On 12/01/2016 11:48 AM, James Knott wrote:

It came out in August, IIRC.  I didn't have any problem with it here.


On 12/01/2016 11:44 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

Thanks for the heads up. I'm running Win10 and Ubuntu 14.04. I don't
believe I've yet been offered the Anniversary Upgrade, but when I am, I
will proceed very cautiously (or not at all).

Virgil


On 12/01/2016 09:17 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:

This is not about LO but about MS crashing both the Windows file
system and GRUB.

If you have not run the Windows 10 Anniversary upgrade, you might want
to consider it as a new OS install that crashes GRUB and messes with
the Windows partition where it need major repair.

Yesterday, I upgraded my older DELL laptop that runs both Windows 10
and Ubuntu 16.04.

Win10 gave me a icon for the Anniversary Upgrade Assistant.  IT took
hours for the download and verify it.  During the install, at about
30% complete, the install required a reboot.  GRUB errors was all I
got.  I had to use a boot repair disk twice to get the laptop to be
able to boot at all.  When I was able to boot to Windows, it took
about 20 minutes for Windows to auto-fix the file system. Then it took
6 more hours to finish the install.  It took less time to install the
Win7 to Win10 upgrade, than it took the Anniversary upgrade.

Yes, MS messes with the GRUB system when it gets install alongside of
Ubuntu, but it never caused so much trouble as it did yesterday
afternoon to late evening.  6+ hours to install the upgrade and fix
the laptop so it would boot again, was not expected.








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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

When I had Win7 and Ubuntu 14.xx?, upgrading to Win10 just messed with 
GRUB to the point that I did not get a boot option.  It just booted to 
Windows.  Simple to fix with a boot loader repair disk. BUT, not this 
"upgrade".  IT has to break the "system" so it cannot boot to any OS, 
even Windows.


What the Anniversary upgrade did to that laptop [not my main one] was 
messing up everything so bad that GRUB could not find any OSs in the 
laptop.  Then when I deleted and reinstalled GRUB, via the repair disk, 
Windows tried to boot up so it could finish the install.  The problem 
was Windows caused a file system error where the partition needed to be 
repaired before it continued.  I never say such a bad install attempt.


I have worked with Linux on-and-off since the later 90's, for work and 
classes.  I switched to Ubuntu as my default OS in 2009. Before that I 
had a Windows laptop and a Linux desktop.


This laptop - I am typing from - goes to Windows several times a month 
to keep it up-to-date.  I Windows decides to go crazy like the other 
one, I will be very unhappy.



On 12/01/2016 10:36 AM, Paolo Debortoli wrote:

try:
http://windowsreport.com/anniversary-update-destroys-boot-loader-dual-boot-config/
http://www.legendiary.at/2016/01/04/windows-10-update-changes-partition-table-and-breaks-grub/

I am a linux ubuntu user since 12 years and noticed that since win 8.1 it is 
hard to install and maintain dual boot systems.


Paolo





On Thursday, December 1, 2016 3:17 PM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster 
 wrote:

This is not about LO but about MS crashing both the Windows file system
and GRUB.

If you have not run the Windows 10 Anniversary upgrade, you might want
to consider it as a new OS install that crashes GRUB and messes with the
Windows partition where it need major repair.

Yesterday, I upgraded my older DELL laptop that runs both Windows 10 and
Ubuntu 16.04.

Win10 gave me a icon for the Anniversary Upgrade Assistant.  IT took
hours for the download and verify it.  During the install, at about 30%
complete, the install required a reboot.  GRUB errors was all I got.  I
had to use a boot repair disk twice to get the laptop to be able to boot
at all.  When I was able to boot to Windows, it took about 20 minutes
for Windows to auto-fix the file system. Then it took 6 more hours to
finish the install.  It took less time to install the Win7 to Win10
upgrade, than it took the Anniversary upgrade.

Yes, MS messes with the GRUB system when it gets install alongside of
Ubuntu, but it never caused so much trouble as it did yesterday
afternoon to late evening.  6+ hours to install the upgrade and fix the
laptop so it would boot again, was not expected.




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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[James Knott]

It came out in August, IIRC.  I didn't have any problem with it here.


On 12/01/2016 11:44 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
> Thanks for the heads up. I'm running Win10 and Ubuntu 14.04. I don't 
> believe I've yet been offered the Anniversary Upgrade, but when I am, I 
> will proceed very cautiously (or not at all).
>
> Virgil
>
>
> On 12/01/2016 09:17 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
>> This is not about LO but about MS crashing both the Windows file 
>> system and GRUB.
>>
>> If you have not run the Windows 10 Anniversary upgrade, you might want 
>> to consider it as a new OS install that crashes GRUB and messes with 
>> the Windows partition where it need major repair.
>>
>> Yesterday, I upgraded my older DELL laptop that runs both Windows 10 
>> and Ubuntu 16.04.
>>
>> Win10 gave me a icon for the Anniversary Upgrade Assistant.  IT took 
>> hours for the download and verify it.  During the install, at about 
>> 30% complete, the install required a reboot.  GRUB errors was all I 
>> got.  I had to use a boot repair disk twice to get the laptop to be 
>> able to boot at all.  When I was able to boot to Windows, it took 
>> about 20 minutes for Windows to auto-fix the file system. Then it took 
>> 6 more hours to finish the install.  It took less time to install the 
>> Win7 to Win10 upgrade, than it took the Anniversary upgrade.
>>
>> Yes, MS messes with the GRUB system when it gets install alongside of 
>> Ubuntu, but it never caused so much trouble as it did yesterday 
>> afternoon to late evening.  6+ hours to install the upgrade and fix 
>> the laptop so it would boot again, was not expected.
>>
>>
>>
>


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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Virgil Arrington]

Thanks for the heads up. I'm running Win10 and Ubuntu 14.04. I don't 
believe I've yet been offered the Anniversary Upgrade, but when I am, I 
will proceed very cautiously (or not at all).

Virgil


On 12/01/2016 09:17 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
>
> This is not about LO but about MS crashing both the Windows file 
> system and GRUB.
>
> If you have not run the Windows 10 Anniversary upgrade, you might want 
> to consider it as a new OS install that crashes GRUB and messes with 
> the Windows partition where it need major repair.
>
> Yesterday, I upgraded my older DELL laptop that runs both Windows 10 
> and Ubuntu 16.04.
>
> Win10 gave me a icon for the Anniversary Upgrade Assistant.  IT took 
> hours for the download and verify it.  During the install, at about 
> 30% complete, the install required a reboot.  GRUB errors was all I 
> got.  I had to use a boot repair disk twice to get the laptop to be 
> able to boot at all.  When I was able to boot to Windows, it took 
> about 20 minutes for Windows to auto-fix the file system. Then it took 
> 6 more hours to finish the install.  It took less time to install the 
> Win7 to Win10 upgrade, than it took the Anniversary upgrade.
>
> Yes, MS messes with the GRUB system when it gets install alongside of 
> Ubuntu, but it never caused so much trouble as it did yesterday 
> afternoon to late evening.  6+ hours to install the upgrade and fix 
> the laptop so it would boot again, was not expected.
>
>
>


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Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Paolo Debortoli]

try:   
http://windowsreport.com/anniversary-update-destroys-boot-loader-dual-boot-config/
http://www.legendiary.at/2016/01/04/windows-10-update-changes-partition-table-and-breaks-grub/

I am a linux ubuntu user since 12 years and noticed that since win 8.1 it is 
hard to install and maintain dual boot systems.


Paolo





On Thursday, December 1, 2016 3:17 PM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster 
 wrote:

This is not about LO but about MS crashing both the Windows file system 
and GRUB.

If you have not run the Windows 10 Anniversary upgrade, you might want 
to consider it as a new OS install that crashes GRUB and messes with the 
Windows partition where it need major repair.

Yesterday, I upgraded my older DELL laptop that runs both Windows 10 and 
Ubuntu 16.04.

Win10 gave me a icon for the Anniversary Upgrade Assistant.  IT took 
hours for the download and verify it.  During the install, at about 30% 
complete, the install required a reboot.  GRUB errors was all I got.  I 
had to use a boot repair disk twice to get the laptop to be able to boot 
at all.  When I was able to boot to Windows, it took about 20 minutes 
for Windows to auto-fix the file system. Then it took 6 more hours to 
finish the install.  It took less time to install the Win7 to Win10 
upgrade, than it took the Anniversary upgrade.

Yes, MS messes with the GRUB system when it gets install alongside of 
Ubuntu, but it never caused so much trouble as it did yesterday 
afternoon to late evening.  6+ hours to install the upgrade and fix the 
laptop so it would boot again, was not expected.

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[libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

[Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

This is not about LO but about MS crashing both the Windows file system 
and GRUB.


If you have not run the Windows 10 Anniversary upgrade, you might want 
to consider it as a new OS install that crashes GRUB and messes with the 
Windows partition where it need major repair.


Yesterday, I upgraded my older DELL laptop that runs both Windows 10 and 
Ubuntu 16.04.


Win10 gave me a icon for the Anniversary Upgrade Assistant.  IT took 
hours for the download and verify it.  During the install, at about 30% 
complete, the install required a reboot.  GRUB errors was all I got.  I 
had to use a boot repair disk twice to get the laptop to be able to boot 
at all.  When I was able to boot to Windows, it took about 20 minutes 
for Windows to auto-fix the file system. Then it took 6 more hours to 
finish the install.  It took less time to install the Win7 to Win10 
upgrade, than it took the Anniversary upgrade.


Yes, MS messes with the GRUB system when it gets install alongside of 
Ubuntu, but it never caused so much trouble as it did yesterday 
afternoon to late evening.  6+ hours to install the upgrade and fix the 
laptop so it would boot again, was not expected.




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