[libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released
Am 14.04.2012 04:22, avamk wrote: Thank you for all of your replies, the information is very helpful, and I will continue to explore. Just one more question: Would migrating to other databases (like MySQL or PostgreSQL) be similar to how I would migrate from an *.odb file to a HSQL database? If not, are there instructions for transitioning to MySQL or PostgreSQL? No, because you start with a working database structure before you connect your Base document to it. Even if you can edit tables, fields and relations of a foreign database, you can't create such a database newly from scratch and you should abstain from editing tables, fields, indices and relations of a foreign database. Always use dedicated software for the respective type of database engine. Having some Base connection to some source database (including spreadsheets, text etc) and another connection to a target database, you can always copy the raw data from source database to the _prepared_tables_ of the target database. Spreadsheet ranges can be copied directly. But you should abstain from the feature which allows you to create clipboard tables from scratch. This is another big trouble maker among all the useless Base features. The copypaste between databases is very useful but you should always append new rows to prepared tables. There are a lot more obsolete Base features which cause more trouble than convenience. Most of the Base component which had been added to OOo v2 could be removed without losing the capability to connect, query, report and use input forms. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released
On Sat, 2012-04-14 at 12:34 +0200, Andreas Säger wrote: Am 14.04.2012 04:22, avamk wrote: Thank you for all of your replies, the information is very helpful, and I will continue to explore. Just one more question: Would migrating to other databases (like MySQL or PostgreSQL) be similar to how I would migrate from an *.odb file to a HSQL database? If not, are there instructions for transitioning to MySQL or PostgreSQL? No, because you start with a working database structure before you connect your Base document to it. Even if you can edit tables, fields and relations of a foreign database, you can't create such a database newly from scratch and you should abstain from editing tables, fields, indices and relations of a foreign database. Always use dedicated software for the respective type of database engine. Having some Base connection to some source database (including spreadsheets, text etc) and another connection to a target database, you can always copy the raw data from source database to the _prepared_tables_ of the target database. Spreadsheet ranges can be copied directly. But you should abstain from the feature which allows you to create clipboard tables from scratch. This is another big trouble maker among all the useless Base features. The copypaste between databases is very useful but you should always append new rows to prepared tables. There are a lot more obsolete Base features which cause more trouble than convenience. Most of the Base component which had been added to OOo v2 could be removed without losing the capability to connect, query, report and use input forms. Hi Andreas, Sorry, I can't agree with your advice to avamk on this one. Sure you can edit tables on 'your' database, as long as he is the one doing the work the fact that it is a server based system is meaningless in this regard As for Base features, the problem is that there just aren't enough of them, or they are half done, not too many. //drew -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released
Am 14.04.2012 13:04, drew jensen wrote: Hi Andreas, Sorry, I can't agree with your advice to avamk on this one. Sure you can edit tables on 'your' database, as long as he is the one doing the work the fact that it is a server based system is meaningless in this regard As for Base features, the problem is that there just aren't enough of them, or they are half done, not too many. //drew All those half done features should be removed. They don't really do what they promise to do and all they promise to do can be done without them. They do not really serve any purpose other than looking similar to MS Access but leaving new users alone in frustration. When they come to the forums we have to explain how to do it from scratch or how to proceed where the tools left them alone. - A table designer which supports only constant default values but not dynamic ones. It does not support the CHECK clause neither. It is a matter of seconds to type the respective ALTER TABLE commands to enable the missing features and CREATE TABLE is very easy to learn so you may even leave the table designer and the relations designer. - The table wizard lets you compose all kind of things which is counter productive if you don't know exactly what you want while it's a waste of time if you know what you want. In particular, it does not really care about matching data types between potentially related fields. It may lead to major frustrations and next time you start with the designer since you need it anyway. - A query designer which produces no more than most simple baby-SQL. Most of the time I click together some field names because the tool is at hand but then I finish the statement in plain text. While in design view, I avoid saving complex but working queries because they may be rendered useless by the graphical query designer. - I can type SQL faster than I am able to do the right thing with the query wizard. - A form wizard which supports only one pair of form/subform and for this pair only two aspects of a 1-n relation. It never creates any list box which is the key control make relations editable. The tiny little fraction of possibilities covered by the form wizard is not worth using it. Almost every time I need more than that and so I use to start on a blank Writer sheet (sometimes it's a Calc sheet). - I don't know much about the report designer. Has there ever been a version where all features worked as advertised? For me it was very useful when I had to impress a gang of banksters, but usually I build informative ad-hoc reports on spreadsheets when formatted print data are required. With the right collection of styles in a template this is a matter of max. 5 minutes including pivot tables and charts. - The old report wizard was the one and only feature in the whole office suite which enabled us to bind row sets to Writer tables. It is still there when you disable the report designer, but in OOo v1 we could do that trick with every stand-alone Writer document. A hobbyist database designer like me needs one lazy Sunday afternoon for a dozend of interrelated tables and a set of input forms to edit each of the relations. The result would be the first version of something that is usable by anybody who is able to order something on ebay. It is more functional, reliable and comprehensible than what millions of people try to achieve in Excel. The development work stops at a certain point while the input forms keep on collecting data input for years to come and maintenance free. At least this is my experience with 3 Base/H2/HyperSQL-projects and I am confident that I would be able use the same database with any other frontend tool or convert the backend database to a similar backend. Leaving aside any of the above mentioned development helpers, just typing (or copying) plain SQL in a Notepad-like text editor and drawing forms manually, the development process would take no more than 2 extra hours (if any). My Emacs editor has an SQL mode and I added generic text snippets for auto-IDs, foreign keys and two-column ID+Name lists. It takes care of quoting and braces. Working with plain text SQL in a capable developers editor is more convenient than any of the Base tools. In the end we are talking about development tools. We develop something which is hopfully convenient and intuitive to use while the development process can not be convenient nor intuitive because we need to fully understand all the technical abstractions in order to hide them away from the user. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released
Thank you for all of your replies, the information is very helpful, and I will continue to explore. Just one more question: Would migrating to other databases (like MySQL or PostgreSQL) be similar to how I would migrate from an *.odb file to a HSQL database? If not, are there instructions for transitioning to MySQL or PostgreSQL? Thanks! -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Announce-HyperSQL-2-2-8-Released-tp3903059p3909460.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released
Hi, On 04/13/2012 10:22 PM, avamk wrote: Thank you for all of your replies, the information is very helpful, and I will continue to explore. Just one more question: Would migrating to other databases (like MySQL or PostgreSQL) be similar to how I would migrate from an *.odb file to a HSQL database? If not, are there instructions for transitioning to MySQL or PostgreSQL? Thanks! -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Announce-HyperSQL-2-2-8-Released-tp3903059p3909460.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. MySQL and PostgreSQL migration requires using the appropriate connector. They are found as extensions to Base. Depending on the connector you may need to enter more or less connection information. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released
Am 12.04.2012 01:17, avamk wrote: Hello, As a new user, the new HSQL looks very interesting, but I am still a little confused: Does this mean if I setup HSQL 2.2.8 per your instructions in the original post, I will have a database service/server running on my machine that LibreOffice acts as frontend for? I.e. will my databse become more similar to a MySQL or PostgreSQL server/client model, and not an embedded file anymore? Also, is there a way to migrate existing databases created with vanilla LibreOffice Base to this new HSQL? Thanks! Hi, This is how the database connectivity was designed in OpenOffice.org 1 before there was any component called Base and it still works in this manner. A Base document (*.odb) is just a package container for a set of frontend tools and an _optional_ HyperSQL backend. Base installs (extracts) the backend databaes every time you open such an .odb file and it repackages the modified database when you close the file. Keeping the database out of the Base container is far more safe and efficient. The embedded HSQLDB deserves its merits for educational purposes. It makes it easy to exchange relational database demos on the internet. The database can be anything connectable via ODBC or JDBC. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released
Hello, As a new user, the new HSQL looks very interesting, but I am still a little confused: Does this mean if I setup HSQL 2.2.8 per your instructions in the original post, I will have a database service/server running on my machine that LibreOffice acts as frontend for? I.e. will my databse become more similar to a MySQL or PostgreSQL server/client model, and not an embedded file anymore? Also, is there a way to migrate existing databases created with vanilla LibreOffice Base to this new HSQL? Thanks! -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Announce-HyperSQL-2-2-8-Released-tp3903059p3904091.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released
Hi :) From what little i understand the answer to all of those questions is Yes. The embedded version of HSqlDb is not as good as running HSqlDb as a separate back-end with LibreOffice as 'just' the front-end. I don't know how you would export the data but hopefully there is a way! Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 12/4/12, avamk avkapl...@gmail.com wrote: From: avamk avkapl...@gmail.com Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 12 April, 2012, 0:17 Hello, As a new user, the new HSQL looks very interesting, but I am still a little confused: Does this mean if I setup HSQL 2.2.8 per your instructions in the original post, I will have a database service/server running on my machine that LibreOffice acts as frontend for? I.e. will my databse become more similar to a MySQL or PostgreSQL server/client model, and not an embedded file anymore? Also, is there a way to migrate existing databases created with vanilla LibreOffice Base to this new HSQL? Thanks! -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Announce-HyperSQL-2-2-8-Released-tp3903059p3904091.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released
On Wed, 2012-04-11 at 16:17 -0700, avamk wrote: Hello, As a new user, the new HSQL looks very interesting, but I am still a little confused: Does this mean if I setup HSQL 2.2.8 per your instructions in the original post, I will have a database service/server running on my machine that LibreOffice acts as frontend for? I.e. will my databse become more similar to a MySQL or PostgreSQL server/client model, and not an embedded file anymore? Also, is there a way to migrate existing databases created with vanilla LibreOffice Base to this new HSQL? Thanks! The answer is yes to all three questions. If you do this, you also need to download the latest User Guide from hsqldb.org to learn all the new things that HSQLDB can do that Base cannot. Alex may have more to say about this tomorrow. --Dan -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released
Hi :) I guess that by tomorrow Dan means today as yesterday has already stopped being today several minutes ago although possibly not there. By there i mean here as i am there since you are here from your point of view, obviously. Goodnight all (or should that be good morning?) Regards from Tom :) --- On Thu, 12/4/12, Dan Lewis elderdanle...@gmail.com wrote: From: Dan Lewis elderdanle...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released To: users@global.libreoffice.org Date: Thursday, 12 April, 2012, 0:37 On Wed, 2012-04-11 at 16:17 -0700, avamk wrote: Hello, As a new user, the new HSQL looks very interesting, but I am still a little confused: Does this mean if I setup HSQL 2.2.8 per your instructions in the original post, I will have a database service/server running on my machine that LibreOffice acts as frontend for? I.e. will my databse become more similar to a MySQL or PostgreSQL server/client model, and not an embedded file anymore? Also, is there a way to migrate existing databases created with vanilla LibreOffice Base to this new HSQL? Thanks! The answer is yes to all three questions. If you do this, you also need to download the latest User Guide from hsqldb.org to learn all the new things that HSQLDB can do that Base cannot. Alex may have more to say about this tomorrow. --Dan -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [Announce] HyperSQL 2.2.8 Released
Le 12/04/2012 01:17, avamk a écrit : anymore? Also, is there a way to migrate existing databases created with vanilla LibreOffice Base to this new HSQL? To add to Andreas and Dan msgs, getting from embedded to stand-alone DB just requires to extract the DB from the LibO .odb file (which is just a compressed file, any de-zip tool will do; eg. 7-zip). -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
