Re: [Uta] RFC 8314: Don't consider supporting point-to-point delivery

2020-11-13 Thread John Levine
>> for all mail submissions with implicit TLS in the future. This is a >> request to consider supporting point-to-point delivery of email >> directly to MX pointed server. >I believe your proposal as described will make the spam problem worse >and add no value to the email system. ... We don't

Re: [Uta] RFC 8314: Consider supporting point-to-point delivery

2020-11-13 Thread Chris Newman
The basic issue is Email has two critically important properties that make it uniquely useful despite the age of the service and the cruft that has accumulated due to that age: 1. decentralized control 2. communication without introduction If you don't preserve these two properties, then

Re: [Uta] RFC 8314: Consider supporting point-to-point delivery

2020-11-13 Thread Keith Moore
On 11/13/20 11:03 AM, Mikko Rantalainen wrote: Keith Moore (2020-11-13 17:26 Europe/Helsinki): To the extent email delivery is reliable, it is because of persistence in relaying traffic.   Many mail user agents are not in a good position to do that.   It is generally better to submit the

Re: [Uta] RFC 8314: Consider supporting point-to-point delivery

2020-11-13 Thread ned+uta
FWIW, you appear to have responded to a message that hasn't made it to the list yet. Ned Short version: this is, in many cases, a Bad Idea. To the extent email delivery is reliable, it is because of persistence in relaying traffic.   Many mail user agents are

Re: [Uta] RFC 8314: Consider supporting point-to-point delivery

2020-11-13 Thread Keith Moore
Short version: this is, in many cases, a Bad Idea. To the extent email delivery is reliable, it is because of persistence in relaying traffic.   Many mail user agents are not in a good position to do that.   It is generally better to submit the message to a service that is well-connected and