[videoblogging] Re: Decline in posts to this group.
No doubt. Pioneers in uncharted territory. Completely. When I got here in '06, a few years after the pioneers started doing what they were doing, the daily messages and the archives were absolutely invaluable for me as far as figuring out what to do, how to do it and how not to reinvent the wheel. While twitter was the obvious destruction of this list, this list is still the FOUNDATION for the relationships that people have carried to practically-real-time communication on status update sites. There's no reason to send a message to this list, hope somebody looks at it and then hope they send another email back when you can post a question to twitter, and one of your followers might respond to it within 5 minutes. This list is a MAJOR reason I knew who to follow on twitter in the first place. Anyway... Wanted to +1 what Schlomo was saying. Bill Cammack http://billcammack.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, schlomo rabinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing about this list that will never change is that this was the place where the pioneers in uncharted territory would discuss videoblogging. The list may not have high educational content now, but the archives are filled with it. For those that can understand this: This list is like The Well. Very few people think about The Well anymore, but its place in history is undisputed. And there are sexier people on this list than that were on The Well in its early days:) -- Schlomo Rabinowitz http://schlomolog.blogspot.com http://hatfactory.net AIM:schlomochat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: Decline in posts to this group.
Funny -I am now comoing back to the list after a long absence. I started following this list in 2004. But I never became an active videoblogger. But now I do have a series at my work called My Office Has A Kitchen. For the first time, I am editing video on a weekly basis and loving it. Videos can be seen at: http://iterasi.blogspot.com. I need to organize the videos better. Another reason to come back to the list! The thing is there are so many resources now available on the web but this list still seems to have a core group of really knowledgeable folks. That's why I come back here. This is where you find the pros, the pioneers. As Steve says, there are a lot of new technologies that are still quite unexplored. I hope this list continues to become a place where i can learn from others how to best use these technologies in my work and in my personal life. Alex Alex Williams http://alexhwilliams.com http://iterasi.blogspot.com Twitter: podcasthotel --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Steve Garfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jay and everyone else on the list... I often tell the story of seeing your comment on my vlog that asked me to come over and join this list. 2004 It was such a huge help back in 2004 when we were just trying to figure out the best ways to host videos... You are right that it was al about learning how to videoblog back then. We were all watchiing everyone's videos. Think about that. Everyone on the list was watching every single video on the internet. ;-) Well, every single video blog... It was technically challenging... so t here were fewer people doing it. Links Clutter up the list with posts of here's a link to my most recent video of...: No way. We had RSS for that.. It's weird to think that it was frowned upon for people to point to their new videos. We were all watching everyone's new videos any way so cluttering up the list with pointers wasn't something that was done... Now everything has changed. We need pointers. They now pop up on twitter and friend feed. I always wanted FireAnt to let me see the popular videos that my friends were watching... Now it seems like we are getting that organically from a number of sources. Vlog It still irritates me when I hear someone say they posted a new vlog. They actually made a new 'vlog post'...not created a whole new blog to hold videos... but I'm getting over it... and understand that the video itself has become the vlog. YouTube It's also funny to look back at how we dismissed YouTube because it didn't allow access to the original QuickTime file or support RSS 2.0 with enclosures... Oops. Guess we missed the boat on that one. Exploring I'm still very excited about video on the web... New things I'm exploring are: - Live streaming via cellphone with Qik and other platforms. - Live broadcasting with Mogulus - Video conversations with Seesmic - HD video ( still wondering what camera to get ) I'm also still working on Citizen Journalism with Rocketboom and TheUptake... Along with that I'm looking into how all these technologies can be adapted by TV... So I think this is still a great place to talk about new technologies and new content... I surely couldn't have shared the above in under 140 characters... Meeting in Person It's always fun to see other videobloggers at events like SXSW too... I'll be at Podcamp Boston in July, New Media Expo August and Streaming Media West in September ... --Steve http://stevegarfield.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/stevegarfield --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman jay.dedman@ wrote: Are people vlogging more, but posting less? Are people leaving the group? Like me, have you become a lurker, not a poster? Did you loose interest in vlogging? Or, just don't have the time to keep it up? others spoke clearly on this. We started in 2004 talking about HOW to videoblog. the archives are interesting to read since you see that people were truly just making it up. getting video onto a blog was literally a hack. Now its easy, so no need to talk about HOW...though i agree that list list is a solid place if you have a videoblogging tech issue. we've made places like showinbox.tv/forum to discuss specific technologies. We spent a year or so talking about the business of videoblogging. it was interesting seeing all the money pouring into new companies offering videoblogging services. its still amazing to think that Youtube sold for 1.6 billion dollars. that excitement has died down. the hype is stale. Robert is also right that many people are using Twitter to post links. But as Andrew said, content content content. the technology is herenow what do we want to say? no more excuses. Id love to hear about videoblog projects that people are really responding to. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Decline in posts to this group.
One thing about this list that will never change is that this was the place where the pioneers in uncharted territory would discuss videoblogging. The list may not have high educational content now, but the archives are filled with it. For those that can understand this: This list is like The Well. Very few people think about The Well anymore, but its place in history is undisputed. And there are sexier people on this list than that were on The Well in its early days:) -- Schlomo Rabinowitz http://schlomolog.blogspot.com http://hatfactory.net AIM:schlomochat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Decline in posts to this group.
Some of the people on this list are on The Well now. On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 9:04 AM, schlomo rabinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing about this list that will never change is that this was the place where the pioneers in uncharted territory would discuss videoblogging. The list may not have high educational content now, but the archives are filled with it. For those that can understand this: This list is like The Well. Very few people think about The Well anymore, but its place in history is undisputed. And there are sexier people on this list than that were on The Well in its early days:) -- Schlomo Rabinowitz http://schlomolog.blogspot.com http://hatfactory.net AIM:schlomochat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Decline in posts to this group.
Good analogy. sull On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 12:04 PM, schlomo rabinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those that can understand this: This list is like The Well. Very few people think about The Well anymore, but its place in history is undisputed. And there are sexier people on this list than that were on The Well in its early days:) -- Schlomo Rabinowitz http://schlomolog.blogspot.com http://hatfactory.net AIM:schlomochat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: Decline in posts to this group.
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Brook Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some of the people on this list are on The Well now. Well, now. ;) Chris http://www.myspace.com/necropol http://penelopespantyhose.com
[videoblogging] Re: Decline in posts to this group.
Schlomo - Very well said. It's the archives that tell the story. This is one of the best communities on the web. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Brook Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some of the people on this list are on The Well now. On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 9:04 AM, schlomo rabinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing about this list that will never change is that this was the place where the pioneers in uncharted territory would discuss videoblogging. The list may not have high educational content now, but the archives are filled with it. For those that can understand this: This list is like The Well. Very few people think about The Well anymore, but its place in history is undisputed. And there are sexier people on this list than that were on The Well in its early days:) -- Schlomo Rabinowitz http://schlomolog.blogspot.com http://hatfactory.net AIM:schlomochat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: Decline in posts to this group.
Hi Jay and everyone else on the list... I often tell the story of seeing your comment on my vlog that asked me to come over and join this list. 2004 It was such a huge help back in 2004 when we were just trying to figure out the best ways to host videos... You are right that it was al about learning how to videoblog back then. We were all watchiing everyone's videos. Think about that. Everyone on the list was watching every single video on the internet. ;-) Well, every single video blog... It was technically challenging... so t here were fewer people doing it. Links Clutter up the list with posts of here's a link to my most recent video of...: No way. We had RSS for that.. It's weird to think that it was frowned upon for people to point to their new videos. We were all watching everyone's new videos any way so cluttering up the list with pointers wasn't something that was done... Now everything has changed. We need pointers. They now pop up on twitter and friend feed. I always wanted FireAnt to let me see the popular videos that my friends were watching... Now it seems like we are getting that organically from a number of sources. Vlog It still irritates me when I hear someone say they posted a new vlog. They actually made a new 'vlog post'...not created a whole new blog to hold videos... but I'm getting over it... and understand that the video itself has become the vlog. YouTube It's also funny to look back at how we dismissed YouTube because it didn't allow access to the original QuickTime file or support RSS 2.0 with enclosures... Oops. Guess we missed the boat on that one. Exploring I'm still very excited about video on the web... New things I'm exploring are: - Live streaming via cellphone with Qik and other platforms. - Live broadcasting with Mogulus - Video conversations with Seesmic - HD video ( still wondering what camera to get ) I'm also still working on Citizen Journalism with Rocketboom and TheUptake... Along with that I'm looking into how all these technologies can be adapted by TV... So I think this is still a great place to talk about new technologies and new content... I surely couldn't have shared the above in under 140 characters... Meeting in Person It's always fun to see other videobloggers at events like SXSW too... I'll be at Podcamp Boston in July, New Media Expo August and Streaming Media West in September ... --Steve http://stevegarfield.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/stevegarfield --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are people vlogging more, but posting less? Are people leaving the group? Like me, have you become a lurker, not a poster? Did you loose interest in vlogging? Or, just don't have the time to keep it up? others spoke clearly on this. We started in 2004 talking about HOW to videoblog. the archives are interesting to read since you see that people were truly just making it up. getting video onto a blog was literally a hack. Now its easy, so no need to talk about HOW...though i agree that list list is a solid place if you have a videoblogging tech issue. we've made places like showinbox.tv/forum to discuss specific technologies. We spent a year or so talking about the business of videoblogging. it was interesting seeing all the money pouring into new companies offering videoblogging services. its still amazing to think that Youtube sold for 1.6 billion dollars. that excitement has died down. the hype is stale. Robert is also right that many people are using Twitter to post links. But as Andrew said, content content content. the technology is herenow what do we want to say? no more excuses. Id love to hear about videoblog projects that people are really responding to. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790
[videoblogging] Re: Decline in posts to this group.
I know for me it is a number of factors: Exhaustion from juggling life, school and videoblogging. I hated to put that on the back burner but there are times when you have to call a time out. I'm also writing for BlogHer, the Library Tech blog and my own blog which has unintentionally turned into the YT Music channel with commentary on the weeks events. That will change now that I have a bit more rest and can work out the bugs of my next project. I didn't want to repeat going to places I've been before and recording the same things in a different year. That might change now that the summer events are busting out all over Los Angeles. I was video blocked. I don't want to produce crappy video but I'm still learning how to make thing look good, better, er acceptable. This is counter to my just do it philosophy. I got trapped when I sat down to edit and I couldn't up it to the next level. Should I even bother? Most times I didn't. Truth is some of you put out fabulous videos and most times I just have time to point, shoot, upload. I have ideas that are often inspired by the group and bloggers in general. I'm working on a new group of service videos for some of the issues that have come up concerning Fair Use, Copyright and stuff like that. It is an experiment. I don't know if I can do without it looking like a PowerPoint presentation. Which comes back to content. I would love if we could have more discussions about what the community wants and needs in terms of content, content creation help and how do you get your idea or point across with the tools that you have. Those tools might be process (thinking) workflow, how to write a functional vlogging script or ??? because we've haven't talked about it. I've never left just been lurking. Gena
[videoblogging] Re: Decline in posts to this group.
You sneaky bastard! I see what you did there - you tried to reopen the What Is Videoblogging debate AND have the last word! :D Excellent post, Brook. But - in my experience - videoblogging has *always* been associated in the public mind with first person to-camera video diaries. Since I started in 2005, whenever I've said 'videoblogging' to a non tech person, that's what they've assumed it is. And they assume it's done using a fixed webcam. They think blogging is a text diary. So they assumed video blogging was the same thing. With a webcam. And they're even more snooty about the idea of that than text blogging. Now YouTube has brought the reality of 99% of vlogging (or VLogging as they call it - vee logging) into line with that expectation. Personally, most of what I do online IS videoblogging - I describe it to people as 'creative videoblogging' to indicate it's non-webcam. Half the people I subscribe to, I'd describe this way - they have distinctive voices and use filmmaking skills to tell their personal stories. But the other half, I've grouped in my Bookmarks under 'video art / experimenta'. Some of you might think of this as 'creative videoblogging', but 'I don't think 'videoblogging' is a very helpful term for these sites, in terms of attracting people to watch them and meeting viewers' expectations. When I talk to people about this stuff, I never describe it as 'videoblogging' - I describe it as something like 'online filmmaking video art'. So. I've never really cared about the 'what is videoblogging' argument - I just care about what the majority of people understand and expect when they see a description of my site or a site that I like. To make these things as attractive as possible to the right people. Rupert http://twittervlog.tv --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Brook Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vlogging is evolving. What vlogging means to people outside this group is also evolving. Search for vlogging on You Tube. You'll note a) it is now a wildly popular form, and b) what is meant by vlogging on YouTube is very specifically first person, audience-addressed video, usually someone talking to the camera, sometimes someone talking to the camera with a more creative visual approach. What it is not is shows, series, conceptual approaches to serialized video, or many of the other things vlogging pioneers on this list have created and consider to be videoblogging. I remember when ambient became a mainstream term. The meaning changed drastically, and some of us in the electronic/noise music community had a lot of trouble accepting that what we thought of as ambient music was now r lumped in with stuff that seemed to be its antithesis or in some cases would be not even be recognized as representative of a form it had pioneered. Once a term mainstreams at that level there's nothing for it. In this case the change, if you think about it, is in some sense going in the opposite direction: a refining of the term that really does encompass the roots of the form. Some of the best stuff from people on this list absolutely meets this refined criteria. But some of the best stuff, including some of what we think of as the first important vlogs, doesn't. And mine certainly doesn't, fwiw. I suspect most people now believe vlogging started on youtube. I suspect there are fans of vlogging who have never encountered serial video on someone's own personal site. They go to one place for their (pixelated mess of) video, and that's that. They don't RSS and they never will. Most people who don't work or socialize in the tech world will never use RSS, just as they will never twitter or anything like it. Social media is a quick log in to facebook before returning to work after lunch. Video distribution is youtube video links exchanged via email or sms. This group is a remarkable resource and a remarkable group of people. Posts will ebb and flow. It's ok. But there is definitely not a reduction in the amount of videoblogging going on - there is, however, a change in where it's happening and in the cultural meaning of the term. It doesn't matter. The list will go on as long as it needs to, the real connections between people will survive. And the definition may be irrelevant now. Just make what you must make. Let other people define it, and ignore them if it bugs you. Video on the web is now common. It is no big deal. Maybe it was leave britney alone that did it, maybe it happened before - I suspect the latter - but vlogging, as defined by the YouTube world, is now a mainstream genre. Brook ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Decline in posts to this group.
Further to that post... Who's seen Fred? This is a videoblog ad campaign for a phone/IM console. Will annoy half of you and amuse the rest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEqwKNNQBwc He has four of the sites top 20 videos this month, with a total of more than 12.7 million plays. He has 16 videos in total, 13 of which have over 1 million views. My latest post has 159. (via NewTeeVee http://newteevee.com/2008/06/19/who-the-frack-is-fred/) On 20-Jun-08, at 8:09 AM, ruperthowe wrote: You sneaky bastard! I see what you did there - you tried to reopen the What Is Videoblogging debate AND have the last word! :D Excellent post, Brook. But - in my experience - videoblogging has *always* been associated in the public mind with first person to-camera video diaries. Since I started in 2005, whenever I've said 'videoblogging' to a non tech person, that's what they've assumed it is. And they assume it's done using a fixed webcam. They think blogging is a text diary. So they assumed video blogging was the same thing. With a webcam. And they're even more snooty about the idea of that than text blogging. Now YouTube has brought the reality of 99% of vlogging (or VLogging as they call it - vee logging) into line with that expectation. Personally, most of what I do online IS videoblogging - I describe it to people as 'creative videoblogging' to indicate it's non-webcam. Half the people I subscribe to, I'd describe this way - they have distinctive voices and use filmmaking skills to tell their personal stories. But the other half, I've grouped in my Bookmarks under 'video art / experimenta'. Some of you might think of this as 'creative videoblogging', but 'I don't think 'videoblogging' is a very helpful term for these sites, in terms of attracting people to watch them and meeting viewers' expectations. When I talk to people about this stuff, I never describe it as 'videoblogging' - I describe it as something like 'online filmmaking video art'. So. I've never really cared about the 'what is videoblogging' argument - I just care about what the majority of people understand and expect when they see a description of my site or a site that I like. To make these things as attractive as possible to the right people. Rupert http://twittervlog.tv --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Brook Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vlogging is evolving. What vlogging means to people outside this group is also evolving. Search for vlogging on You Tube. You'll note a) it is now a wildly popular form, and b) what is meant by vlogging on YouTube is very specifically first person, audience-addressed video, usually someone talking to the camera, sometimes someone talking to the camera with a more creative visual approach. What it is not is shows, series, conceptual approaches to serialized video, or many of the other things vlogging pioneers on this list have created and consider to be videoblogging. I remember when ambient became a mainstream term. The meaning changed drastically, and some of us in the electronic/noise music community had a lot of trouble accepting that what we thought of as ambient music was now r lumped in with stuff that seemed to be its antithesis or in some cases would be not even be recognized as representative of a form it had pioneered. Once a term mainstreams at that level there's nothing for it. In this case the change, if you think about it, is in some sense going in the opposite direction: a refining of the term that really does encompass the roots of the form. Some of the best stuff from people on this list absolutely meets this refined criteria. But some of the best stuff, including some of what we think of as the first important vlogs, doesn't. And mine certainly doesn't, fwiw. I suspect most people now believe vlogging started on youtube. I suspect there are fans of vlogging who have never encountered serial video on someone's own personal site. They go to one place for their (pixelated mess of) video, and that's that. They don't RSS and they never will. Most people who don't work or socialize in the tech world will never use RSS, just as they will never twitter or anything like it. Social media is a quick log in to facebook before returning to work after lunch. Video distribution is youtube video links exchanged via email or sms. This group is a remarkable resource and a remarkable group of people. Posts will ebb and flow. It's ok. But there is definitely not a reduction in the amount of videoblogging going on - there is, however, a change in where it's happening and in the cultural meaning of the term. It doesn't matter. The list will go on as long as it needs to, the real connections between people will survive. And the definition may be irrelevant now. Just make what you must make. Let other people define it, and ignore them if it bugs you. Video on the web is now common. It is no
