Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

[Susan Albrecht]

And not just publics.  I purchase films for an academic library, and the vast 
majority of our checkouts are for personal home (or dorm or frat...) use or for 
faculty showing a film in a face-to-face teaching situation.  For any public 
screening, we make sure we've purchased PPR.  So I disagree with the idea that 
there's no reason to license for "lending only."  That's most of what we do!

Yes, for documentaries, I do often pay a higher price because PPR is that's all 
that's offered -- and since it's a fine work, I'm willing to pay it, hoping 
someone WILL come along and use it in a film series or special event 
screening... but unfortunately, the vast majority of the ones for which I've 
paid PPR never do get screened publicly.  Thus I have been appreciative of Kino 
Lorber's offering 3 options:  home use, institutional, and institutional with 
PPR.  That way, if I suspect something will be likely to be screened, I can go 
ahead & pay more for the "with PPR" option; but if I doubt it, I can get it for 
~$100 less and have it ready for those "lending only" situations.  This frees 
up more budget to buy more films.

That's a long way of saying I agree with the notion of "institutional without 
PPR" and "institutional with PPR" options, priced appropriately.  I believe it 
would help your sales.

Susan Albrecht at Wabash College


From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of nahum laufer
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 1:40 PM
To: 'elizabeth mcmahon'; videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

Hi Elizabeth
Thanks for your remarks.
Of course I distribute to Public libraries, but to best of my knowledge most 
libraries today have a  screening room, nearly all also have film series/clubs, 
so no point in licensing only for "lending only", yet when a small community 
library applied to me I gave a discount.
Also a big county library with 20 branches wants say 10 copies one for each 
branch also will receive a discount.
Please let me know in which library you serve.
Best
Nahum Laufer
Sales
Docs for Education
Erez Laufer Films
Holland st 10
Afulla 18371
Israel



From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of elizabeth mcmahon
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 9:27 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

>From a public library standpoint, would not "library lending rights" be 
>analogous to the accepted term home use only? Or does you company not sell, or 
>seek to sell, to public libraries? $175 is prohibitive at best, and is more in 
>line for a title with the cost for PPR. Are you not interested in selling 
>freely circulating copies that can be borrowed by the public to enjoy in the 
>confines of their own home? More and more top drawer distributors recognize 
>they are missing out on considerable sales by not doing so, and therefore, 
>changing their pricing models.

Elizabeth McMahon


From: "ghand...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu>" 
mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu>>
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu<mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

Thanks

There's still a problem, I'm afraid.  Screening films/videos in a
classroom in the service of regular curricula does not require separate
rights in this country.  The copyright laws of the US have a specific
provision for allowing such use in face-to-face teaching.

It would be more accurate (and honest) to simply charge two prices:

One for use in classrooms and libraries, and one for public performance.

As to your question:  An opening screening (i.e. an extra-curricular
screening) generally requires performance rights, even if a professor
gives a spiel before the show, and even if no admittance fees are charged.

Berkeley would be interested in joining your growing customer base, but
not with the terms currently stated on your web site.

Shalom,

Gary

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

[Jessica Rosner]

Nahum,
Let me give you some perspective from the distributor point  of view. You
have nothing to worry about with public libraries re streaming or copying
material. They are sticklers for copyright and I have never had any problem
with any public library. They also would never show a film to an audience
unless they had purchased the rights to do so. Technically a teacher could
borrow a film and use it in a class but it is not very likely by simple
logistics. First the teacher would have to find it, be a member of that
library system and make sure they could get it for the day needed. I again
have never had an issue with this in  20 years of distribution but it is
important to understand that under US copyright law any legal copy can be
used in a class.

Also I don't know any serious distributor that does not give prices, there
are issues with multi-tiered pricing for different uses but it is common
but no prices from  distributor would be highly unusual.

Good luck

Jessica

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 2:39 AM, nahum laufer wrote:

> Gary , Vicki & Elizabeth
>
> Thanks for your remarks
>
> Selling by e-marketing is first of all trusting people, as Gary bought out
> the issue of our price policies wording, I would like his opinion on the
> following: "Public Libraries , lending for Home use only". Does that mean a
> school teacher can borrow a film screen it in a face to face situation?***
> *
>
> Second I have no problem with a library system with a number of branches
> buying one copy and sending to a branch according to demands, but it is a
> serious breach of copyright if you make copies or stream it to the branches.
> 
>
> As to the price, we at "Docs for Education" are offering award winning,
> quality documentary  films, after a round of Film Festivals,  The way to
> expose them to wide publics is through Libraries, especially those that
> have film series.
>
> Many distributers don’t put a selling price at their web-site, and will
> quote only after you ask them, My experience that quoting a price shows
> reliability, I don't know what would be a fair price for : "Public
> Libraries , lending for Home use only".
>
> So I'll act as a vendor at Colba Market – Mumbai "Memsahib give me your
> good price". 
>
> Have a happy Easter or Pesach
>
> www.docsforeducation.com
>
> Nahum Laufer
>
> Sales
>
> Docs for Education
>
> Erez Laufer Films
>
> Holland st 10 
>
> Afulla 18371
>
> Israel
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *elizabeth mcmahon
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 01, 2012 1:00 AM
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks, Vicki, for seeing my perspective. I'd like to take this
> opportunity to make a crucial amendment to what I said, now bolded and
> underlined: Potentially, you could be looking at one copy *each* for a
> system of say, 10 federated libraries, or a really large system of 90
> branches. And hopefully, the subject matter is compelling enough that it
> circs more than once or twice. That's where collection development and
> knowledge of the community and its library collections' usage is paramount.
> We want statistics, afterall, everyone's bread and butter!
>
>  
>
> Elizabeth
>
> *From:* Vicki Nesting 
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:38 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>
>
> I want to second what Elizabeth is saying.  Not all public libraries do
> public screenings and if they do, it may be a one time thing, in which
> case they will request public performance rights.  At least 99% of the
> dvd use in our medium-sized public library is home use.  And, as
> Elizabeth points out, we cannot plunk down $100+ for a dvd that's for
> home use only and may only check out once or twice.  It's just not a
> reasonable cost for us.
>
> Vicki Nesting
> St. Charles Parish Library
> Louisiana
>
>
>
>
> elizabeth mcmahon wrote:
>
> > Nahum,
> >
> > That may very well be true; I cannot speak for all public
> > libraries/systems. That's also not to say just because there is a
> > public meeting room or even an auditorium that it is used for
> > screenings also. Many libraries do not bother with film programming,
> > regrettably. But there is a big difference between a public library
> > doing public programming (for which titles would necessarily need
> > PPR) and patrons 

Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

[nahum laufer]

Gary , Vicki & Elizabeth

Thanks for your remarks

Selling by e-marketing is first of all trusting people, as Gary bought out
the issue of our price policies wording, I would like his opinion on the
following: "Public Libraries , lending for Home use only". Does that mean a
school teacher can borrow a film screen it in a face to face situation?

Second I have no problem with a library system with a number of branches
buying one copy and sending to a branch according to demands, but it is a
serious breach of copyright if you make copies or stream it to the branches.

As to the price, we at "Docs for Education" are offering award winning,
quality documentary  films, after a round of Film Festivals,  The way to
expose them to wide publics is through Libraries, especially those that have
film series.

Many distributers don't put a selling price at their web-site, and will
quote only after you ask them, My experience that quoting a price shows
reliability, I don't know what would be a fair price for : "Public Libraries
, lending for Home use only".

So I'll act as a vendor at Colba Market - Mumbai "Memsahib give me your good
price". 

Have a happy Easter or Pesach

www.docsforeducation.com

Nahum Laufer

Sales

Docs for Education

Erez Laufer Films

Holland st 10 

Afulla 18371

Israel

 

 

 

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of elizabeth mcmahon
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 1:00 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

 

Thanks, Vicki, for seeing my perspective. I'd like to take this opportunity
to make a crucial amendment to what I said, now bolded and underlined:
Potentially, you could be looking at one copy each for a system of say, 10
federated libraries, or a really large system of 90 branches. And hopefully,
the subject matter is compelling enough that it circs more than once or
twice. That's where collection development and knowledge of the community
and its library collections' usage is paramount. We want statistics,
afterall, everyone's bread and butter!

 

Elizabeth

From: Vicki Nesting 
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu 
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies


I want to second what Elizabeth is saying.  Not all public libraries do 
public screenings and if they do, it may be a one time thing, in which 
case they will request public performance rights.  At least 99% of the 
dvd use in our medium-sized public library is home use.  And, as 
Elizabeth points out, we cannot plunk down $100+ for a dvd that's for 
home use only and may only check out once or twice.  It's just not a 
reasonable cost for us. 

Vicki Nesting
St. Charles Parish Library
Louisiana




elizabeth mcmahon wrote:

> Nahum,
>  
> That may very well be true; I cannot speak for all public 
> libraries/systems. That's also not to say just because there is a 
> public meeting room or even an auditorium that it is used for 
> screenings also. Many libraries do not bother with film programming, 
> regrettably. But there is a big difference between a public library 
> doing public programming (for which titles would necessarily need 
> PPR) and patrons browsing open stacks (and still in this day and age, 
> browsing cards that represent titles kept in closed stacks for 
> security reasons) and picking up a few things to take home to 
> watch. That is what is termed home use only and strictly copyright 
> protected. Public libraries cannot plunk down $100+ for a dvd that's 
> home use only. Won't/cannot happen. Thus the price adjustment 
> downwards by an increasing amount of distributors. Potentially, you 
> could be looking at one copy for a system of say, 10 federated 
> libraries, or a really large system of 90 branches. Obviously there's 
> a profit margin in there, if you are open to it. Of course libraries 
> that plan on public screenings either need one time only permission 
> depending on what the film/dvd is or more often merely will purchase a 
> copy with PPR for the permanent collection. My question was aimed at 
> what you are doing to get your titles exposed to a greater audience. 
>  
> Elizabeth McMahon
>
>From: nahum laufer 
>To: 'elizabeth mcmahon' ;
>videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 1:40 PM
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>
>Hi Elizabeth
>Thanks for your remarks.
>Of course I distribute to Public libraries, but to best of my
>knowledge most libraries today have a  screening room, nearly all
>also have film series/clubs, so no point in licensing only for
>"lending only", yet when a small community library applied to me I
>gave a disc

Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

[elizabeth mcmahon]

Thanks, Vicki, for seeing my perspective. I'd like to take this opportunity to 
make a crucial amendment to what I said, now bolded and underlined: 
Potentially, you could be looking at one copy each for a system of say, 10 
federated libraries, or a really large system of 90 branches. And hopefully, 
the subject matter is compelling enough that it circs more than once or twice. 
That's where collection development and knowledge of the community and its 
library collections' usage is paramount. We want statistics, afterall, 
everyone's bread and butter!


Elizabeth

From: Vicki Nesting 
>To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu 
>Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:38 PM
>Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>
>I want to second what Elizabeth is saying.  Not all public libraries do 
>public screenings and if they do, it may be a one time thing, in which 
>case they will request public performance rights.  At least 99% of the 
>dvd use in our medium-sized public library is home use.  And, as 
>Elizabeth points out, we cannot plunk down $100+ for a dvd that's for 
>home use only and may only check out once or twice.  It's just not a 
>reasonable cost for us. 
>
>Vicki Nesting
>St. Charles Parish Library
>Louisiana
>
>
>
>
>elizabeth mcmahon wrote:
>
>> Nahum,
>>  
>> That may very well be true; I cannot speak for all public 
>> libraries/systems. That's also not to say just because there is a 
>> public meeting room or even an auditorium that it is used for 
>> screenings also. Many libraries do not bother with film programming, 
>> regrettably. But there is a big difference between a public library 
>> doing public programming (for which titles would necessarily need 
>> PPR) and patrons browsing open stacks (and still in this day and age, 
>> browsing cards that represent titles kept in closed stacks for 
>> security reasons) and picking up a few things to take home to 
>> watch. That is what is termed home use only and strictly copyright 
>> protected. Public libraries cannot plunk down $100+ for a dvd that's 
>> home use only. Won't/cannot happen. Thus the price adjustment 
>> downwards by an increasing amount of distributors. Potentially, you 
>> could be looking at one copy for a system of say, 10 federated 
>> libraries, or a really large system of 90 branches. Obviously there's 
>> a profit margin in there, if you are open to it. Of course libraries 
>> that plan on public screenings either need one time only permission 
>> depending on what the film/dvd is or more often merely will purchase a 
>> copy with PPR for the permanent collection. My question was aimed at 
>> what you are doing to get your titles exposed to a greater audience. 
>>  
>> Elizabeth McMahon
>>
>>    From: nahum laufer 
>>    To: 'elizabeth mcmahon' ;
>>    videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>    Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 1:40 PM
>>    Subject: RE: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>>
>>    Hi Elizabeth
>>    Thanks for your remarks.
>>    Of course I distribute to Public libraries, but to best of my
>>    knowledge most libraries today have a  screening room, nearly all
>>    also have film series/clubs, so no point in licensing only for
>>    "lending only", yet when a small community library applied to me I
>>    gave a discount.
>>    Also a big county library with 20 branches wants say 10 copies one
>>    for each branch also will receive a discount.
>>    Please let me know in which library you serve.
>>    Best
>>    Nahum Laufer
>>    Sales
>>    Docs for Education
>>    Erez Laufer Films
>>    Holland st 10
>>    Afulla 18371
>>    Israel
>>      
>>      
>>    From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu
>>    [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
>>    elizabeth mcmahon
>>    Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 9:27 PM
>>    To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>    Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>>      
>>    From a public library standpoint, would not "library lending
>>    rights" be analogous to the accepted term home use only? Or does
>>    you company not sell, or seek to sell, to public libraries? $175
>>    is prohibitive at best, and is more in line for a title with the
>>    cost for PPR. Are you not interested in selling freely circulating
>>    copies that can be borrowed by the public to enjoy in the confines
>>    of their own home? More and more top drawer distributors recognize
>>    they are missing out on considerable sales by not doing so, a

Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

[Vicki Nesting]

I want to second what Elizabeth is saying.  Not all public libraries do 
public screenings and if they do, it may be a one time thing, in which 
case they will request public performance rights.  At least 99% of the 
dvd use in our medium-sized public library is home use.  And, as 
Elizabeth points out, we cannot plunk down $100+ for a dvd that's for 
home use only and may only check out once or twice.  It's just not a 
reasonable cost for us. 

Vicki Nesting
St. Charles Parish Library
Louisiana




elizabeth mcmahon wrote:

> Nahum,
>  
> That may very well be true; I cannot speak for all public 
> libraries/systems. That's also not to say just because there is a 
> public meeting room or even an auditorium that it is used for 
> screenings also. Many libraries do not bother with film programming, 
> regrettably. But there is a big difference between a public library 
> doing public programming (for which titles would necessarily need 
> PPR) and patrons browsing open stacks (and still in this day and age, 
> browsing cards that represent titles kept in closed stacks for 
> security reasons) and picking up a few things to take home to 
> watch. That is what is termed home use only and strictly copyright 
> protected. Public libraries cannot plunk down $100+ for a dvd that's 
> home use only. Won't/cannot happen. Thus the price adjustment 
> downwards by an increasing amount of distributors. Potentially, you 
> could be looking at one copy for a system of say, 10 federated 
> libraries, or a really large system of 90 branches. Obviously there's 
> a profit margin in there, if you are open to it. Of course libraries 
> that plan on public screenings either need one time only permission 
> depending on what the film/dvd is or more often merely will purchase a 
> copy with PPR for the permanent collection. My question was aimed at 
> what you are doing to get your titles exposed to a greater audience. 
>  
> Elizabeth McMahon
>
> From: nahum laufer 
> To: 'elizabeth mcmahon' ;
> videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 1:40 PM
> Subject: RE: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>
> Hi Elizabeth
> Thanks for your remarks.
> Of course I distribute to Public libraries, but to best of my
> knowledge most libraries today have a  screening room, nearly all
> also have film series/clubs, so no point in licensing only for
> "lending only", yet when a small community library applied to me I
> gave a discount.
> Also a big county library with 20 branches wants say 10 copies one
> for each branch also will receive a discount.
> Please let me know in which library you serve.
> Best
> Nahum Laufer
> Sales
> Docs for Education
> Erez Laufer Films
> Holland st 10
> Afulla 18371
> Israel
>  
>  
> From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu
> [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of
> elizabeth mcmahon
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 9:27 PM
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>  
> From a public library standpoint, would not "library lending
> rights" be analogous to the accepted term home use only? Or does
> you company not sell, or seek to sell, to public libraries? $175
> is prohibitive at best, and is more in line for a title with the
> cost for PPR. Are you not interested in selling freely circulating
> copies that can be borrowed by the public to enjoy in the confines
> of their own home? More and more top drawer distributors recognize
> they are missing out on considerable sales by not doing so, and
> therefore, changing their pricing models.
>
>  
> Elizabeth McMahon
>
>  
>
> From: "ghand...@library.berkeley.edu
>     <mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu>"
>  <mailto:ghand...@library.berkeley.edu>>
> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> <mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 3:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>
> Thanks
>
> There's still a problem, I'm afraid.  Screening films/videos in a
> classroom in the service of regular curricula does not require
> separate
> rights in this country.  The copyright laws of the US have a
> specific
> provision for allowing such use in face-to-face teaching.
>
> It would be more accurate (and honest) to simply charge two
> prices:
>
> One for use in classrooms a

Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

[elizabeth mcmahon]

Nahum,
 
That may very well be true; I cannot speak for all public libraries/systems. 
That's also not to say just because there is a public meeting room or even an 
auditorium that it is used for screenings also. Many libraries do not bother 
with film programming, regrettably. But there is a big difference between a 
public library doing public programming (for which titles would necessarily 
need PPR) and patrons browsing open stacks (and still in this day and age, 
browsing cards that represent titles kept in closed stacks for security 
reasons) and picking up a few things to take home to watch. That is what is 
termed home use only and strictly copyright protected. Public libraries cannot 
plunk down $100+ for a dvd that's home use only. Won't/cannot happen. Thus the 
price adjustment downwards by an increasing amount of distributors. 
Potentially, you could be looking at one copy for a system of say, 10 federated 
libraries, or a really large system of 90
 branches. Obviously there's a profit margin in there, if you are open to it. 
Of course libraries that plan on public screenings either need one time only 
permission depending on what the film/dvd is or more often merely will purchase 
a copy with PPR for the permanent collection. My question was aimed at what you 
are doing to get your titles exposed to a greater audience. 

Elizabeth McMahon

From: nahum laufer 
>To: 'elizabeth mcmahon' ; videolib@lists.berkeley.edu 
>Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 1:40 PM
>Subject: RE: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>
>
>Hi Elizabeth
>Thanks for your remarks.
>Of course I distribute to Public libraries, but to best of my knowledge most 
>libraries today have a  screening room, nearly all also have film 
>series/clubs, so no point in licensing only for "lending only", yet when a 
>small community library applied to me I gave a discount.
>Also a big county library with 20 branches wants say 10 copies one for each 
>branch also will receive a discount.
>Please let me know in which library you serve.
>Best
>Nahum Laufer
>Sales
>Docs for Education
>Erez Laufer Films
>Holland st 10 
>Afulla 18371
>Israel
> 
> 
>From:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
>[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of elizabeth mcmahon
>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 9:27 PM
>To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
> 
>From a public library standpoint, would not "library lending rights" be 
>analogous to the accepted term home use only? Or does you company not sell, or 
>seek to sell, to public libraries? $175 is prohibitive at best, and is more in 
>line for a title with the cost for PPR. Are you not interested in selling 
>freely circulating copies that can be borrowed by the public to enjoy in the 
>confines of their own home? More and more top drawer distributors recognize 
>they are missing out on considerable sales by not doing so, and therefore, 
>changing their pricing models.
>
>
> 
>Elizabeth McMahon
>
> 
>From:"ghand...@library.berkeley.edu" 
>>To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu 
>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 3:08 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>There's still a problem, I'm afraid.  Screening films/videos in a
>>classroom in the service of regular curricula does not require separate
>>rights in this country.  The copyright laws of the US have a specific
>>provision for allowing such use in face-to-face teaching.
>>
>>It would be more accurate (and honest) to simply charge two prices:
>>
>>One for use in classrooms and libraries, and one for public performance.
>>
>>As to your question:  An opening screening (i.e. an extra-curricular
>>screening) generally requires performance rights, even if a professor
>>gives a spiel before the show, and even if no admittance fees are charged.
>>
>>Berkeley would be interested in joining your growing customer base, but
>>not with the terms currently stated on your web site.
>>
>>Shalom,
>>
>>Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Dear Gary
>>> Thanks for your answer and remarks.
>>> We knew about the rules of face to face screening in classrooms regardless
>>> of size
>>> We will remove the words (up to 50 students) from our pricing & invoices.
>>> Anyway I am not around to count.
>>> I hope that will solve the legal problem
>>> Most university libraries purchased classroom screening rights, yet some
>>> preferred to buy also Public screening rights.
>>>
>>> Yet I have a question many universities have a film series open to all
>>&g

Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

[nahum laufer]

Hi Elizabeth

Thanks for your remarks.

Of course I distribute to Public libraries, but to best of my knowledge most
libraries today have a  screening room, nearly all also have film
series/clubs, so no point in licensing only for "lending only", yet when a
small community library applied to me I gave a discount.

Also a big county library with 20 branches wants say 10 copies one for each
branch also will receive a discount.

Please let me know in which library you serve.

Best

Nahum Laufer

Sales

Docs for Education

Erez Laufer Films

Holland st 10 

Afulla 18371

Israel

 

 

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of elizabeth mcmahon
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 9:27 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

 

>From a public library standpoint, would not "library lending rights" be
analogous to the accepted term home use only? Or does you company not sell,
or seek to sell, to public libraries? $175 is prohibitive at best, and is
more in line for a title with the cost for PPR. Are you not interested in
selling freely circulating copies that can be borrowed by the public to
enjoy in the confines of their own home? More and more top drawer
distributors recognize they are missing out on considerable sales by not
doing so, and therefore, changing their pricing models.



 

Elizabeth McMahon


 

From: "ghand...@library.berkeley.edu" 
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu 
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies


Thanks

There's still a problem, I'm afraid.  Screening films/videos in a
classroom in the service of regular curricula does not require separate
rights in this country.  The copyright laws of the US have a specific
provision for allowing such use in face-to-face teaching.

It would be more accurate (and honest) to simply charge two prices:

One for use in classrooms and libraries, and one for public performance.

As to your question:  An opening screening (i.e. an extra-curricular
screening) generally requires performance rights, even if a professor
gives a spiel before the show, and even if no admittance fees are charged.

Berkeley would be interested in joining your growing customer base, but
not with the terms currently stated on your web site.

Shalom,

Gary



>
> Dear Gary
> Thanks for your answer and remarks.
> We knew about the rules of face to face screening in classrooms regardless
> of size
> We will remove the words (up to 50 students) from our pricing & invoices.
> Anyway I am not around to count.
> I hope that will solve the legal problem
> Most university libraries purchased classroom screening rights, yet some
> preferred to buy also Public screening rights.
>
> Yet I have a question many universities have a film series open to all
> students & faculty and if a professor gives a short explanation before the
> screening is that a face to face screening?
>
> I hope Berkeley will join our growing list of customers
>
> Shalom (Peace)
>
> Nahum Laufer
> Sales
> Docs for Education
> Erez Laufer Films
> Holland st 10
> Afulla 18371
> Israel
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> Original Message-
> From: m...@library.berkeley.edu [mailto:m...@library.berkeley.edu]
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 6:05 PM
> To: lauf...@netvision.net.il
> Cc: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Your pricing policies
>
> Hello
>
> Thanks for this link; your catalog has some interesting-sounding stuff in
> it.  I have some fairly serious concerns about the wording of your pricing
> policy, however.
>
> US copyright law allows the screening of whole films/videos in
> face-to-face classroom teaching, REGARDLESS of the size of the class.
> Your pricing schedule wording ignores this fact.  I understand the
> differential pricing for public performance rights, but your wording for
> the $175 "library lending rights" is misleading and not legally
> supportable, unless you consider this a contract stipulation, in which
> case I'd strongly urge my library colleagues not to do business with your
> firm.
>
> Let me know if you have questions, or if there are clarifications I should
> know about.
>
> Gary Handman
>
>
>
> $175 for library lending rights. Includes screenings rights in classrooms
> (up to 50 students).
>
> $250 library lending rights and public performance rights for screening
> when no admission fee is charged.
>
>
> (subject)  Comments and Suggestion Form
>> (from-name)  Library Web user
>> (from-email)  someb...@library.berkeley.edu
>> (urlRef)  http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/vrtlists.html
>> (comments)
>> 

Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

[elizabeth mcmahon]

>From a public library standpoint, would not "library lending rights" be 
>analogous to the accepted term home use only? Or does you company not sell, or 
>seek to sell, to public libraries? $175 is prohibitive at best, and is more in 
>line for a title with the cost for PPR. Are you not interested in selling 
>freely circulating copies that can be borrowed by the public to enjoy in the 
>confines of their own home? More and more top drawer distributors recognize 
>they are missing out on considerable sales by not doing so, and therefore, 
>changing their pricing models.


Elizabeth McMahon

 
From: "ghand...@library.berkeley.edu" 
>To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu 
>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 3:08 PM
>Subject: Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies
>
>Thanks
>
>There's still a problem, I'm afraid.  Screening films/videos in a
>classroom in the service of regular curricula does not require separate
>rights in this country.  The copyright laws of the US have a specific
>provision for allowing such use in face-to-face teaching.
>
>It would be more accurate (and honest) to simply charge two prices:
>
>One for use in classrooms and libraries, and one for public performance.
>
>As to your question:  An opening screening (i.e. an extra-curricular
>screening) generally requires performance rights, even if a professor
>gives a spiel before the show, and even if no admittance fees are charged.
>
>Berkeley would be interested in joining your growing customer base, but
>not with the terms currently stated on your web site.
>
>Shalom,
>
>Gary
>
>
>
>>
>> Dear Gary
>> Thanks for your answer and remarks.
>> We knew about the rules of face to face screening in classrooms regardless
>> of size
>> We will remove the words (up to 50 students) from our pricing & invoices.
>> Anyway I am not around to count.
>> I hope that will solve the legal problem
>> Most university libraries purchased classroom screening rights, yet some
>> preferred to buy also Public screening rights.
>>
>> Yet I have a question many universities have a film series open to all
>> students & faculty and if a professor gives a short explanation before the
>> screening is that a face to face screening?
>>
>> I hope Berkeley will join our growing list of customers
>>
>> Shalom (Peace)
>>
>> Nahum Laufer
>> Sales
>> Docs for Education
>> Erez Laufer Films
>> Holland st 10
>> Afulla 18371
>> Israel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> Original Message-
>> From: m...@library.berkeley.edu [mailto:m...@library.berkeley.edu]
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 6:05 PM
>> To: lauf...@netvision.net.il
>> Cc: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> Subject: Your pricing policies
>>
>> Hello
>>
>> Thanks for this link; your catalog has some interesting-sounding stuff in
>> it.  I have some fairly serious concerns about the wording of your pricing
>> policy, however.
>>
>> US copyright law allows the screening of whole films/videos in
>> face-to-face classroom teaching, REGARDLESS of the size of the class.
>> Your pricing schedule wording ignores this fact.  I understand the
>> differential pricing for public performance rights, but your wording for
>> the $175 "library lending rights" is misleading and not legally
>> supportable, unless you consider this a contract stipulation, in which
>> case I'd strongly urge my library colleagues not to do business with your
>> firm.
>>
>> Let me know if you have questions, or if there are clarifications I should
>> know about.
>>
>> Gary Handman
>>
>>
>>
>> $175 for library lending rights. Includes screenings rights in classrooms
>> (up to 50 students).
>>
>> $250 library lending rights and public performance rights for screening
>> when no admission fee is charged.
>>
>>
>> (subject)  Comments and Suggestion Form
>>> (from-name)  Library Web user
>>> (from-email)  someb...@library.berkeley.edu
>>> (urlRef)  http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/vrtlists.html
>>> (comments)
>>> --
>>> -
>>> Dear Gary
>>> I have written before to you about our project Docs for Education I am
>>> waiting that Berekeley Library will join other prestigius universities
>>> and purchase our films See www.docsforeducation.com
>>> <http://www.docsforeducation.com/>
>>>
>>> I want to have our film list on your vi

Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

[Jessica Rosner]

Nahum,
Just to make it very clear, any legal copy of a film may be used in a
class however unless you are
selling your films in the retail market it is sort of irrelevant. You
just price the film at X and X plus Y if you want to charge more for
public performance rights. If you are the only source for the film you
are free to charge whatever you think is fair and institutions are
free to buy or not buy it at that price. The sore spot here is the
idea that somehow academic institutions or libraries have to pay more
than say copies sold on Amazon. You can sell to individuals directly
at a lower price but unless you want a lot of paperwork and require a
signed contract that copy can be used in a class.

As for the 2nd part, there is NO right to show a film to an audience
on or off a campus without specific permission from a rights holder (
such as PPR rights). Here is the important part of US
copyright law which outlines that films may be used in course
instruction but may not be used for any screenings outside of a class
to a group of specifically enrolled students.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/110

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 3:08 PM,   wrote:
> Thanks
>
> There's still a problem, I'm afraid.  Screening films/videos in a
> classroom in the service of regular curricula does not require separate
> rights in this country.  The copyright laws of the US have a specific
> provision for allowing such use in face-to-face teaching.
>
> It would be more accurate (and honest) to simply charge two prices:
>
> One for use in classrooms and libraries, and one for public performance.
>
> As to your question:  An opening screening (i.e. an extra-curricular
> screening) generally requires performance rights, even if a professor
> gives a spiel before the show, and even if no admittance fees are charged.
>
> Berkeley would be interested in joining your growing customer base, but
> not with the terms currently stated on your web site.
>
> Shalom,
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>>
>> Dear Gary
>> Thanks for your answer and remarks.
>> We knew about the rules of face to face screening in classrooms regardless
>> of size
>> We will remove the words (up to 50 students) from our pricing & invoices.
>> Anyway I am not around to count.
>> I hope that will solve the legal problem
>> Most university libraries purchased classroom screening rights, yet some
>> preferred to buy also Public screening rights.
>>
>> Yet I have a question many universities have a film series open to all
>> students & faculty and if a professor gives a short explanation before the
>> screening is that a face to face screening?
>>
>> I hope Berkeley will join our growing list of customers
>>
>> Shalom (Peace)
>>
>> Nahum Laufer
>> Sales
>> Docs for Education
>> Erez Laufer Films
>> Holland st 10
>> Afulla 18371
>> Israel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> Original Message-
>> From: m...@library.berkeley.edu [mailto:m...@library.berkeley.edu]
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 6:05 PM
>> To: lauf...@netvision.net.il
>> Cc: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> Subject: Your pricing policies
>>
>> Hello
>>
>> Thanks for this link; your catalog has some interesting-sounding stuff in
>> it.  I have some fairly serious concerns about the wording of your pricing
>> policy, however.
>>
>> US copyright law allows the screening of whole films/videos in
>> face-to-face classroom teaching, REGARDLESS of the size of the class.
>> Your pricing schedule wording ignores this fact.  I understand the
>> differential pricing for public performance rights, but your wording for
>> the $175 "library lending rights" is misleading and not legally
>> supportable, unless you consider this a contract stipulation, in which
>> case I'd strongly urge my library colleagues not to do business with your
>> firm.
>>
>> Let me know if you have questions, or if there are clarifications I should
>> know about.
>>
>> Gary Handman
>>
>>
>>
>> $175 for library lending rights. Includes screenings rights in classrooms
>> (up to 50 students).
>>
>> $250 library lending rights and public performance rights for screening
>> when no admission fee is charged.
>>
>>
>> (subject)  Comments and Suggestion Form
>>> (from-name)  Library Web user
>>> (from-email)  someb...@library.berkeley.edu
>>> (urlRef)  http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/vrtlists.html
>>> (comments)
>>> --
>>> -
>>> Dear Gary
>>> I have written before to you about our project Docs for Education I am
>>> waiting that Berekeley Library will join other prestigius universities
>>> and purchase our films See www.docsforeducation.com
>>> 
>>>
>>> I want to have our film list on your video listing.
>>>  thanks
>>> Nahum Laufer
>>> Docs for Education
>>> lauf...@netvision.net.il
>>>
>>> --
>>> -
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues rel

Re: [Videolib] re Your pricing policies

[ghandman]

Thanks

There's still a problem, I'm afraid.  Screening films/videos in a
classroom in the service of regular curricula does not require separate
rights in this country.  The copyright laws of the US have a specific
provision for allowing such use in face-to-face teaching.

It would be more accurate (and honest) to simply charge two prices:

One for use in classrooms and libraries, and one for public performance.

As to your question:  An opening screening (i.e. an extra-curricular
screening) generally requires performance rights, even if a professor
gives a spiel before the show, and even if no admittance fees are charged.

Berkeley would be interested in joining your growing customer base, but
not with the terms currently stated on your web site.

Shalom,

Gary



>
> Dear Gary
> Thanks for your answer and remarks.
> We knew about the rules of face to face screening in classrooms regardless
> of size
> We will remove the words (up to 50 students) from our pricing & invoices.
> Anyway I am not around to count.
> I hope that will solve the legal problem
> Most university libraries purchased classroom screening rights, yet some
> preferred to buy also Public screening rights.
>
> Yet I have a question many universities have a film series open to all
> students & faculty and if a professor gives a short explanation before the
> screening is that a face to face screening?
>
> I hope Berkeley will join our growing list of customers
>
> Shalom (Peace)
>
> Nahum Laufer
> Sales
> Docs for Education
> Erez Laufer Films
> Holland st 10
> Afulla 18371
> Israel
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> Original Message-
> From: m...@library.berkeley.edu [mailto:m...@library.berkeley.edu]
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 6:05 PM
> To: lauf...@netvision.net.il
> Cc: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Your pricing policies
>
> Hello
>
> Thanks for this link; your catalog has some interesting-sounding stuff in
> it.  I have some fairly serious concerns about the wording of your pricing
> policy, however.
>
> US copyright law allows the screening of whole films/videos in
> face-to-face classroom teaching, REGARDLESS of the size of the class.
> Your pricing schedule wording ignores this fact.  I understand the
> differential pricing for public performance rights, but your wording for
> the $175 "library lending rights" is misleading and not legally
> supportable, unless you consider this a contract stipulation, in which
> case I'd strongly urge my library colleagues not to do business with your
> firm.
>
> Let me know if you have questions, or if there are clarifications I should
> know about.
>
> Gary Handman
>
>
>
> $175 for library lending rights. Includes screenings rights in classrooms
> (up to 50 students).
>
> $250 library lending rights and public performance rights for screening
> when no admission fee is charged.
>
>
> (subject)  Comments and Suggestion Form
>> (from-name)  Library Web user
>> (from-email)  someb...@library.berkeley.edu
>> (urlRef)  http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/vrtlists.html
>> (comments)
>> --
>> -
>> Dear Gary
>> I have written before to you about our project Docs for Education I am
>> waiting that Berekeley Library will join other prestigius universities
>> and purchase our films See www.docsforeducation.com
>> 
>>
>> I want to have our film list on your video listing.
>>  thanks
>> Nahum Laufer
>> Docs for Education
>> lauf...@netvision.net.il
>>
>> --
>> -
>>
>>
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>


Gary Handman
Director
Media Resources Center
Moffitt Library
UC Berkeley

510-643-8566
ghand...@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC

"I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
--Francois Truffaut


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.