[VIHUELA] Re: Invertible counterpoint

2011-02-06 Thread Lex Eisenhardt
As a matter of interest have you discovered a source of reference that describes how Scaramouche strung his guitar? If you haven't in what way is the fact that he was in Paris relevant to this topic? Did I mention Scaramouche (in relation to any topic) here? I feel this needs a bit of explan

[VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity

2011-02-06 Thread Monica Hall
Excellent work by both of you. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Peter Kooiman To: [2]Chris Despopoulos Cc: [3]Vihuelalist ; [4]Monica Hall ; [5]Martyn Hodgson Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity > Not surpri

[VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity

2011-02-06 Thread Peter Kooiman
> Not surprisingly, Sanz indicates trills or mordents for the two > lower courses in the first two books: Also, in his "Regla quarta del trino" Sanz offers this advice: "I want to give a famous rule so that you know where a trill sounds good, and you can always do it even though it

[VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity

2011-02-06 Thread Chris Despopoulos
Not surprisingly, Sanz indicates trills or mordents for the two lower courses in the first two books: * Marionas in two separate pieces * El que gustare de falsas ponga cuidado en estos cromaticos * Gallardas * Espanoletas #3 * Pasacalles por la O * Clarines y Trompetas

[VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity

2011-02-06 Thread Monica Hall
Incidentally, earlier in this discussion I asked if there was any early source which mentioned selective plucking of individual strings of an octave pair - no response so far. No - the only source which mentions it is Corrette in -can't remember the exact date - 1760 or there abouts. I

[VIHUELA] Re: Invertible counterpoint

2011-02-06 Thread Monica Hall
>> Rafael Andia on his recording of de Visee's music has the bordon on the thumb side and this doesn't seem to have an appreciable effect on the music. How interesting! I thought there was a sort of 'universal assent' (of our times) on this - the 'French tuning' for De Visee. Was there

[VIHUELA] Re: Invertible counterpoint

2011-02-06 Thread Monica Hall
You have a very interesting point here. By saying that they probably had reverse stringing I referred to what is generally assumed today. A theory about stringing/tuning should inevitably be based on inference as well as evidence. I agree with that in principle but I think we should be careful t

[VIHUELA] Re: Where to end?

2011-02-06 Thread Monica Hall
Yes - it is a beautiful recording and the ornamentation is exquisite. It just shows what you can do with such a simple piece. But don't be discouraged from playing it yourself Chris. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Chris Despopoulos To: [2]Monica Hall ; [3

[VIHUELA] Re: Where to end?

2011-02-06 Thread Chris Despopoulos
I just posted some recordings, and thankfully I did so before reading this: >>I have no problem with the pavanas played without bourdons. Try listening >>to Gordon Ferries - or Chris on this list perhaps has recorded it. Just >>bear in mind >>that the opening phrase will be

[VIHUELA] Ambiguity

2011-02-06 Thread Martyn Hodgson
Dear Stewart, Again I agree with much of what you say, but my stance is rather towards 'institutional' ambiguity in 17th century guitar stringings. In short because the range of the instrument is so limited (and purposefully so since clearly suitable lute bass string technology

[VIHUELA] Some recodrings

2011-02-06 Thread Chris Despopoulos
Hi all... For what it's worth, I posted a few more recordings on my web site: [1]http://cudspan.net/baroque These include the first Fuga by Sanz, on a fully re-entrant instrument, and the Prelude of Roncalli's Suite 1 in G Maj, also re-entrant. I'm afraid it gets a bit boring bec

[VIHUELA] Invertible counterpoint

2011-02-06 Thread Stewart McCoy
Dear Martyn, Thanks for your message. I agree with what you say about the effect of reverse stringing, that it causes the upper octave to be more in evidence than it would be with a more conventional (i.e. lute) stringing. Yet why should a guitarist have wanted the high octave to predominate? It m

[VIHUELA] Re: Invertible counterpoint

2011-02-06 Thread Stuart Walsh
On 06/02/2011 09:26, Monica Hall wrote: Rafael Andia on his recording of de Visee's music has the bordon on the thumb side and this doesn't seem to have an appreciable effect on the music. How interesting! I thought there was a sort of 'universal assent' (of our times) on this - the 'Fren

[VIHUELA] Re: Invertible counterpoint

2011-02-06 Thread Lex Eisenhardt
You have no evidence that that was what they did. What they don't say in their books you just think you can make up! Rafael Andia on his recording of de Visee's music has the bordon on the thumb side and this doesn't seem to have an appreciable effect on the music. You have a very interestin

[VIHUELA] Re: Invertible counterpoint

2011-02-06 Thread Martyn Hodgson
Thanks Lex, Yes of course it can be heard if one is looking out for it (as we all are in an exchange like this...), but by deceiving the ear I meant the ambiguity or uncertainty of the octave in which the principal of the note lies. M. --- On Sun, 6/2/11, Lex Eisenhardt wrot

[VIHUELA] Invertible counterpoint

2011-02-06 Thread Monica Hall
Lex wrote... "What kind of evidence are we looking for? Visee and Corbetta (and most likely many players who played their music) probably had reverse stringing on the fourth course. Nevertheless it is mentioned nowhere in their books." You have no evidence that that was what they did. What they

[VIHUELA] Re: Invertible counterpoint

2011-02-06 Thread Lex Eisenhardt
The other reason for the disposition of the pair, and one which I think is more significant, is that the string struck first with the thumb tends to predominate. So that on the lute, where a more procrustean adherence to the rules of counterpoint/voice leading might have been expected, it is

[VIHUELA] Re: Invertible counterpoint

2011-02-06 Thread Martyn Hodgson
Dear Stewart, I agree with some of what you say (in particular perhaps Sanz was expressing a desire for the most 'modern' style even if still composing some pieces with bourdons) but I think you overlook an obvious possibility when you write 'Why should the lower string of an octa