Dear Stewart,
I agree with some of what you say (in particular perhaps Sanz was
expressing a desire for the most 'modern' style even if still composing
some pieces with bourdons) but I think you overlook an obvious
possibility when you write 'Why should the lower string of an
The other reason for the disposition of the pair, and one which I think
is more significant, is that the string struck first with the thumb
tends to predominate. So that on the lute, where a more procrustean
adherence to the rules of counterpoint/voice leading might have been
expected, it is
Lex wrote...
What kind of evidence are we looking for? Visee and Corbetta (and most
likely many players who played their music) probably had reverse stringing
on the fourth course. Nevertheless it is mentioned nowhere in their books.
You have no evidence that that was what they did. What they
Thanks Lex,
Yes of course it can be heard if one is looking out for it (as we all
are in an exchange like this...), but by deceiving the ear I meant the
ambiguity or uncertainty of the octave in which the principal of the
note lies.
M.
--- On Sun, 6/2/11, Lex Eisenhardt
You have no evidence that that was what they did. What they don't say in
their books you just think you can make up! Rafael Andia on his recording
of de Visee's music has the bordon on the thumb side and this doesn't seem
to have an appreciable effect on the music.
You have a very
On 06/02/2011 09:26, Monica Hall wrote:
Rafael Andia on his recording of de Visee's music has the bordon on
the thumb side and this doesn't seem to have an appreciable effect on
the music.
How interesting! I thought there was a sort of 'universal assent' (of
our times) on this - the
Dear Martyn,
Thanks for your message. I agree with what you say about the effect of
reverse stringing, that it causes the upper octave to be more in
evidence than it would be with a more conventional (i.e. lute)
stringing. Yet why should a guitarist have wanted the high octave to
predominate? It
Hi all...
For what it's worth, I posted a few more recordings on my web site:
[1]http://cudspan.net/baroque
These include the first Fuga by Sanz, on a fully re-entrant instrument,
and the Prelude of Roncalli's Suite 1 in G Maj, also re-entrant. I'm
afraid it gets a bit boring
Dear Stewart,
Again I agree with much of what you say, but my stance is rather
towards 'institutional' ambiguity in 17th century guitar stringings. In
short because the range of the instrument is so limited (and
purposefully so since clearly suitable lute bass string technology
I just posted some recordings, and thankfully I did so before reading
this:
I have no problem with the pavanas played without bourdons. Try
listening
to Gordon Ferries - or Chris on this list perhaps has recorded it.
Just
bear in mind
that the opening phrase will be
Yes - it is a beautiful recording and the ornamentation is exquisite.
It just shows what you can do with such a simple piece.
But don't be discouraged from playing it yourself Chris.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: [1]Chris Despopoulos
To: [2]Monica Hall ;
You have a very interesting point here.
By saying that they probably had reverse stringing I referred to what is
generally assumed today. A theory about stringing/tuning should inevitably
be based on inference as well as evidence.
I agree with that in principle but I think we should be careful
Rafael Andia on his recording of de Visee's music has the bordon on
the thumb side and this doesn't seem to have an appreciable effect on
the music.
How interesting! I thought there was a sort of 'universal assent' (of
our times) on this - the 'French tuning' for De Visee. Was there a
Incidentally, earlier in this discussion I asked if there was any early
source which mentioned selective plucking of individual strings of an
octave pair - no response so far.
No - the only source which mentions it is Corrette in -can't remember the
exact date - 1760 or there abouts. I
Not surprisingly, Sanz indicates trills or mordents for the two lower
courses in the first two books:
* Marionas in two separate pieces
* El que gustare de falsas ponga cuidado en estos cromaticos
* Gallardas
* Espanoletas #3
* Pasacalles por la O
* Clarines y Trompetas
Not surprisingly, Sanz indicates trills or mordents for the two
lower courses in the first two books:
Also, in his Regla quarta del trino Sanz offers this advice:
I want to give a famous rule so that you know where a trill sounds
good, and you can always do it even though it is
Excellent work by both of you.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: [1]Peter Kooiman
To: [2]Chris Despopoulos
Cc: [3]Vihuelalist ; [4]Monica Hall ; [5]Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity
Not
As a matter of interest have you discovered a source of reference that
describes how Scaramouche strung his guitar? If you haven't in what way
is the fact that he was in Paris relevant to this topic?
Did I mention Scaramouche (in relation to any topic) here?
I feel this needs a bit of
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