[VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo

2017-07-10 Thread Martyn Hodgson 
   Thank you Matthew,
   Yes, I'd seen Robert Barto's exploration of the technique and also the
   video close up he posted in 2016 using dedillo. In fact, it was this
   single course finger 'strummimng' sort of technique which I'd also,
   with mixed success, been trying to use and which led me to consider
   other ways of index finger only plucking.
   The use of the index finger, steadied by the thumb, also seems to me to
   be, perhaps, related to the earlier plectrum technique where the
   movement is principally from the wrist rather than the finger alone
   (and indeed close to thumb-under play). Further, dedillo only seems to
   be used with single line running passages where thumb use is not
   required. Accordingly I thought that using a wrist action (and
   index/thumb plectrum) might have rather firmer historical roots - but,
   of course, all mere speculation since, as far as I can see, the Old
   Ones tell us little of the minutae of the dedillo stroke.
   MH
 __

   From: Matthew Daillie <dail...@club-internet.fr>
   To: Martyn Hodgson <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
   Cc: Lute List <l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Vihuela Dmth
   <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Monday, 10 July 2017, 9:45
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo
   You might want to check Robert Barto's articles in the LSA Quarterly
   and his recent workshops on dedillo.
   Best,
   Matthew
   > On Jul 9, 2017, at 17:04, Martyn Hodgson
   <[1]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
   >
   >  Reading the English language summary (in Lute News 117) of the early
   >  journals of the Sociedad de la Vihuela 'Hispanica Lyra',  I was
   >  again struck by the different right hand plucking techniques
   evidently
   >  reasonably common and widespread in sixteenth century Spain.
   >  Principally the use of two right hand digits (either the first and
   >  second fingers or the thumb and first finger) ie dos dedos; or the
   use
   >  of just the index finger to strike the string ie dedillo.
   >  Over the years I have, unsucessfully, tried to use a sort of free
   >  stroke dedillo  (similar the index finger strumming but just on one
   >  course) but find it very tricky to control the stroke especially on
   >  runs across different courses. I recently tried steadying the index
   >  with the thumb and this seems to work a lot better  - much increased
   >  control and accuracy. Indeed, the position is not dissimilar to
   holding
   >  a plectrum between the thumb and first finger - but without actually
   >  having a plectrum which place is taken by the index finger.
   >  I seem to recall that this technique of steadfying the index with
   the
   >  thumb when playing dedillo was mentioned in some other modern
   journal
   >  and would be grateful for a reference - or my memory may be playing
   me
   >  false!
   >  Martyn
   >
   >  --
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo

2017-07-10 Thread mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 
For the record - LSA Quarterly Vol. 50, no. 3, Fall 2015 is devoted to 
the vihuela and includes articles by Barto and Philip Rukavina on 
dedillo.
Monica

Original Message
From: hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: 10/07/2017 7:25 
To: "Lex Eisenhardt"<lex.eisenha...@gmail.com>, "'Lute List'"<lute@cs.
dartmouth.edu>, "'Vihuela Dmth'"<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subj: [VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo

Thanks Lex,
   This (and other clips sent to me) certainly show the index being 
used
   on its own. But to be fair, I didn't quite say it wasn't possible -
   merely that I found it tricky myself! And that the steadying of the
   index with the thumb allowed (me) improved control. It was regarding
   this technique that I wondered if it had been reported/discussed 
before
   ( I thought it had - but perhaps not).
   regards
   Martyn
 __

   From: Lex Eisenhardt <lex.eisenha...@gmail.com>
   To: 'Martyn Hodgson' <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; 'Lute List'
   <l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; 'Vihuela Dmth' <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Sunday, 9 July 2017, 18:05
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo
   Look here for an example:
   [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nowK9J1A_MU
   Lex
   -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
   Van: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-arc@cs.dartmouth.
edu]
   Namens
   Martyn Hodgson
   Verzonden: zondag 9 juli 2017 17:04
   Aan: Lute List; Vihuela Dmth
   Onderwerp: [VIHUELA] Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo
 Reading the English language summary (in Lute News 117) of the 
early
 journals of the Sociedad de la Vihuela 'Hispanica Lyra',  I was
 again struck by the different right hand plucking techniques
   evidently
 reasonably common and widespread in sixteenth century Spain.
 Principally the use of two right hand digits (either the first and
 second fingers or the thumb and first finger) ie dos dedos; or the
   use
 of just the index finger to strike the string ie dedillo.
 Over the years I have, unsucessfully, tried to use a sort of free
 stroke dedillo  (similar the index finger strumming but just on 
one
 course) but find it very tricky to control the stroke especially 
on
 runs across different courses. I recently tried steadying the 
index
 with the thumb and this seems to work a lot better  - much 
increased
 control and accuracy. Indeed, the position is not dissimilar to
   holding
 a plectrum between the thumb and first finger - but without 
actually
 having a plectrum which place is taken by the index finger.
 I seem to recall that this technique of steadfying the index with 
the
 thumb when playing dedillo was mentioned in some other modern 
journal
 and would be grateful for a reference - or my memory may be 
playing
   me
 false!
 Martyn
 --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nowK9J1A_MU
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo

2017-07-10 Thread Matthew Daillie 
You might want to check Robert Barto's articles in the LSA Quarterly and his 
recent workshops on dedillo.
Best,
Matthew




> On Jul 9, 2017, at 17:04, Martyn Hodgson  
> wrote:
> 
>   Reading the English language summary (in Lute News 117) of the early
>   journals of the Sociedad de la Vihuela 'Hispanica Lyra',  I was
>   again struck by the different right hand plucking techniques evidently
>   reasonably common and widespread in sixteenth century Spain.
>   Principally the use of two right hand digits (either the first and
>   second fingers or the thumb and first finger) ie dos dedos; or the use
>   of just the index finger to strike the string ie dedillo.
>   Over the years I have, unsucessfully, tried to use a sort of free
>   stroke dedillo  (similar the index finger strumming but just on one
>   course) but find it very tricky to control the stroke especially on
>   runs across different courses. I recently tried steadying the index
>   with the thumb and this seems to work a lot better  - much increased
>   control and accuracy. Indeed, the position is not dissimilar to holding
>   a plectrum between the thumb and first finger - but without actually
>   having a plectrum which place is taken by the index finger.
>   I seem to recall that this technique of steadfying the index with the
>   thumb when playing dedillo was mentioned in some other modern journal
>   and would be grateful for a reference - or my memory may be playing me
>   false!
>   Martyn
> 
>   --
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo

2017-07-10 Thread mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 
I don't recall that any of the original sources actually go into 
sufficient detail for us to be certain what players did in the 16th 
century. Therein lies the problem. Players being human beings they 
probably did what they found worked for them - every player would have 
done something different. Your suggestion seems eminently practical to 
me.
Monica

Original Message
From: hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: 10/07/2017 7:25 
To: "Lex Eisenhardt"<lex.eisenha...@gmail.com>, "'Lute List'"<lute@cs.
dartmouth.edu>, "'Vihuela Dmth'"<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subj: [VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo

Thanks Lex,
   This (and other clips sent to me) certainly show the index being 
used
   on its own. But to be fair, I didn't quite say it wasn't possible -
   merely that I found it tricky myself! And that the steadying of the
   index with the thumb allowed (me) improved control. It was regarding
   this technique that I wondered if it had been reported/discussed 
before
   ( I thought it had - but perhaps not).
   regards
   Martyn
 __

   From: Lex Eisenhardt <lex.eisenha...@gmail.com>
   To: 'Martyn Hodgson' <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; 'Lute List'
   <l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; 'Vihuela Dmth' <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Sunday, 9 July 2017, 18:05
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo
   Look here for an example:
   [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nowK9J1A_MU
   Lex
   -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
   Van: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-arc@cs.dartmouth.
edu]
   Namens
   Martyn Hodgson
   Verzonden: zondag 9 juli 2017 17:04
   Aan: Lute List; Vihuela Dmth
   Onderwerp: [VIHUELA] Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo
 Reading the English language summary (in Lute News 117) of the 
early
 journals of the Sociedad de la Vihuela 'Hispanica Lyra',  I was
 again struck by the different right hand plucking techniques
   evidently
 reasonably common and widespread in sixteenth century Spain.
 Principally the use of two right hand digits (either the first and
 second fingers or the thumb and first finger) ie dos dedos; or the
   use
 of just the index finger to strike the string ie dedillo.
 Over the years I have, unsucessfully, tried to use a sort of free
 stroke dedillo  (similar the index finger strumming but just on 
one
 course) but find it very tricky to control the stroke especially 
on
 runs across different courses. I recently tried steadying the 
index
 with the thumb and this seems to work a lot better  - much 
increased
 control and accuracy. Indeed, the position is not dissimilar to
   holding
 a plectrum between the thumb and first finger - but without 
actually
 having a plectrum which place is taken by the index finger.
 I seem to recall that this technique of steadfying the index with 
the
 thumb when playing dedillo was mentioned in some other modern 
journal
 and would be grateful for a reference - or my memory may be 
playing
   me
 false!
 Martyn
 --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nowK9J1A_MU
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo

2017-07-10 Thread gary 
Martyn;

If you check closely, you will notice that Mr. Maier does use the thumb
to steady the index finger in the Mudarra Fantasia No.1 when playing
dedillo.

Gary

On 2017-07-10 00:25, Martyn Hodgson wrote:

> Thanks Lex,
> This (and other clips sent to me) certainly show the index being used
> on its own. But to be fair, I didn't quite say it wasn't possible -
> merely that I found it tricky myself! And that the steadying of the
> index with the thumb allowed (me) improved control. It was regarding
> this technique that I wondered if it had been reported/discussed before
> ( I thought it had - but perhaps not).
> regards
> Martyn
> __
>
> From: Lex Eisenhardt <lex.eisenha...@gmail.com>
> To: 'Martyn Hodgson' <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; 'Lute List'
> <l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; 'Vihuela Dmth' <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, 9 July 2017, 18:05
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo
> Look here for an example:
> [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nowK9J1A_MU
> Lex
> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
> Namens
> Martyn Hodgson
> Verzonden: zondag 9 juli 2017 17:04
> Aan: Lute List; Vihuela Dmth
> Onderwerp: [VIHUELA] Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo
> Reading the English language summary (in Lute News 117) of the early
> journals of the Sociedad de la Vihuela 'Hispanica Lyra',  I was
> again struck by the different right hand plucking techniques
> evidently
> reasonably common and widespread in sixteenth century Spain.
> Principally the use of two right hand digits (either the first and
> second fingers or the thumb and first finger) ie dos dedos; or the
> use
> of just the index finger to strike the string ie dedillo.
> Over the years I have, unsucessfully, tried to use a sort of free
> stroke dedillo  (similar the index finger strumming but just on one
> course) but find it very tricky to control the stroke especially on
> runs across different courses. I recently tried steadying the index
> with the thumb and this seems to work a lot better  - much increased
> control and accuracy. Indeed, the position is not dissimilar to
> holding
> a plectrum between the thumb and first finger - but without actually
> having a plectrum which place is taken by the index finger.
> I seem to recall that this technique of steadfying the index with the
> thumb when playing dedillo was mentioned in some other modern journal
> and would be grateful for a reference - or my memory may be playing
> me
> false!
> Martyn
> --
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nowK9J1A_MU
> 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--

[VIHUELA] Re: Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo

2017-07-09 Thread Lex Eisenhardt 
Look here for an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nowK9J1A_MU
Lex

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens
Martyn Hodgson
Verzonden: zondag 9 juli 2017 17:04
Aan: Lute List; Vihuela Dmth
Onderwerp: [VIHUELA] Vihuela technique: dos dedos and dedillo

   Reading the English language summary (in Lute News 117) of the early
   journals of the Sociedad de la Vihuela 'Hispanica Lyra',  I was
   again struck by the different right hand plucking techniques evidently
   reasonably common and widespread in sixteenth century Spain.
   Principally the use of two right hand digits (either the first and
   second fingers or the thumb and first finger) ie dos dedos; or the use
   of just the index finger to strike the string ie dedillo.
   Over the years I have, unsucessfully, tried to use a sort of free
   stroke dedillo  (similar the index finger strumming but just on one
   course) but find it very tricky to control the stroke especially on
   runs across different courses. I recently tried steadying the index
   with the thumb and this seems to work a lot better  - much increased
   control and accuracy. Indeed, the position is not dissimilar to holding
   a plectrum between the thumb and first finger - but without actually
   having a plectrum which place is taken by the index finger.
   I seem to recall that this technique of steadfying the index with the
   thumb when playing dedillo was mentioned in some other modern journal
   and would be grateful for a reference - or my memory may be playing me
   false!
   Martyn

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html