wrote:
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Friday, 19 November, 2010, 17:28
Dear Monica,
You write: 'I think
To: Martyn Hodgson
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
I can't summarize it in a single sentence but I hope I can explain
briefly.
I think the reason for including alfabeto in these song books is
because
they were
not intended to be
accompanied in the same way
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
Dear Monica,
In response to my scepticism that these books/Ms were primarily aimed
at professional guitar players you write 'In any case the books are
intended primarily for theorbo
and keyboard players.' - but what is your evidence
of ledger lines. But there is still a lot about it
which puzzles me.
Monica
mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela
with the
help of these books/ms and professional musicians.
rgds
M.
--- On Sat, 20/11/10, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc
: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
Our ready ear is very much influenced/spoiled by functional
harmony,
I'm afraid. I suppose it went wrong so often (then) because the
trick
of finding the appropriate harmonies was to add 'middle voices' to
a
bass and soprano.
I
/11/10, Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Friday, 19 November, 2010, 9:49
Dear Martyn,
you wrote:
However, I don't
The shift had taken place by then. I don't know if you have seen the 1622
edition of Sanseverino's guitar book
but it includes six songs with what are in effect written out guitar
accompaniments. It gives you a clear idea of how he expected the songs
to
be accompanied.
Sanseverino's six
Thanks much...
In practice, I'm moving slowly back in time. I will have to come to
grips with the Renaissance sooner or later, in terms of understanding
and practice. Well, that's the goal, at any rate. You open great
areas to explore. In fact, I'm confronted with choosing which
Sanseverino's six (dance-) songs are accompaniments to well-known
melodies.
Obviously you haven't seen them. (They are not the same songs included in
the 1620 edition). They are songs which were currently in the repertoire at
the time - Rontani's Caldi sospiri to name but one. This had
Them's my sentiments too!!!
Monica
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Vihuela List vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu; Stewart McCoy
lu...@tiscali.co.uk
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 8:42 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
Dear Stewart
I'll let Lex do that first.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: [1]Martyn Hodgson
To: [2]Vihuelalist ; [3]Lex Eisenhardt ; [4]Monica Hall
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
Dear Lex,
Well, it just
To answer Martyn's question I can only summarize my position:
I think that it is possible that players ('amateurs' or not) have left out
the fifth course in certain occasions.
No more no less
To which I should add however:
that I suppose there have individually different approaches and
Indeed, the Platonic chord..
--- On Fri, 19/11/10, Chris Despopoulos despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
wrote:
From: Chris Despopoulos despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
To: Stewart McCoy lu...@tiscali.co.uk, Vihuela List
: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
Dear Stewart,
You write: 'My guess, (and it would be lovely if you could confirm it
to be right),
is that the bourdons were removed for the sake of strumming. Second
inversions were not such a problem per se, especially if there was
another
: 19 November 2010 12:18
To: Stewart McCoy
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
Triads were not new in the 17th century. They had certainly been
around
a lot earlier than that, and were pretty well established by the 15th
century. Composers like Dufay made much use
Sanseverino's six (dance-) songs are accompaniments to well-known
melodies.
Actually, I checked them this morning. Leading Musicologists nowadays
treat such repertoire as dance-songs.
Which Leading Musicologists? Even songs by Rontani connected with the
Florentine school? How could you
Dear Stewart
To this I would ask, why is that guitarists in the 17th century chose
to
string their guitars without bourdons? By doing that, they
drastically
reduce the overall range of the instrument, and different courses end
up
duplicating each other by sounding
You asked me what I thought of Alexander Dean's views, to which I answered
quite seriously.
I think you could have explained it using simpler, more direct language
rather than using wordy acaemicspeak..
My goodness. Apparently you have not understood a word of it. As you seem to
have
You haven't anwered my questions. I will repeat them.
Which Leading Musicologists nowadays treat which songs as dance-repertoire?
Even songs by Rontani connected with the
Florentine school? How could you dance
to Caldi sospiri? Which songs are you referring to? I have even found a
version of
--- On Fri, 19/11/10, Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Friday, 19 November, 2010, 9:49
Dear Martyn,
you wrote:
However, I
I think you are mistaken here because throughout the 16th century general
practice was to add contrapuntal parts to a tenor voice. The shift to
working from the bass took place at the beginning of the 17th century.
So how about songs from the 1620s and 30s?
Underlying this discussion is
While Sanseverino tells us better not to use the guitar for plucking (in
1620, when alfabeto was the standard notation) we can suppose that he heard
players doing that.
Alfabeto is a form of shorthand. You can't
have a system of shorthand which everyone interprets as they wish.
Chord
often gets the harmonisations 'wrong'
rgds
M.
--- On Wed, 17/11/10, Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Wednesday, 17
Dear Martyn,
You write '.how can you find the chords to a song if you have no
idea of counterpoint and voice-leading at all...' . Surely this is why
a such a basically simple chordal instrument is so popular even today -
once you've mastered a few chords and have a reasonable
, November 17, 2010 9:42:03 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
Dear Martyn,
You write '.how can you find the chords to a song if you have
no
idea of counterpoint and voice-leading at all...' . Surely this is
why
a such a basically simple chordal instrument
Our ready ear is very much influenced/spoiled by functional harmony,
I'm afraid. I suppose it went wrong so often (then) because the trick
of finding the appropriate harmonies was to add 'middle voices' to a
bass and soprano.
I think you are mistaken here because throughout the 16th
30s. I would prefer to take in account that an experienced
theorbist-guitarist would perhaps have tried to expand the system of
alfabeto from within.
There was no need for them to expand the system of alfabeto from within.
The experienced theorbist-guitarist could use lute tablature for
] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
Our ready ear is very much influenced/spoiled by functional harmony,
I'm afraid. I suppose it went wrong so often (then) because the trick
of finding the appropriate harmonies was to add 'middle voices' to a
bass and soprano.
I think you are mistaken here
However, Sanseverino tells not to play in lute style because the guitar
would be deprived of its harmony. So it should not be plucked, but
played with full strokes. What exactly are 'botte piene'? I would say
that also the strummed chords of alfabeto falso, or those in tablature
Indeed - he is also having his cake and eating it
M
--- On Mon, 15/11/10, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Valdambrini's evidence
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc:
@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 5:12 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Valdambrini's evidence
Indeed - he is also having his cake and eating it
M
--- On Mon, 15/11/10, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re
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