[VIHUELA] Re: Diesel: Chaccone (in A minor)
The Royal Library of Copenhagen has made available finally this little known repertoire: [1]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html [2]En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael ... www.kb.dk En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael Diesel (GKS 377 folio) Let us hope that Diesel will be more appreciated and performed now ! Eduard V. Agulló Well here is a version of a Chaccone! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YjobWoANrc Stuart -- References 1. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 2. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
[VIHUELA] Re: Diesel
Stuart, There appears to be no contemporaneous evidence of precisely how Diesel strung his guitar. From consideration of the music, voice leading, period of composition etc, I believe Diesel used a mandora like stringing - ie octaves on the fourth and fifths but with the low bass on the thumb side (ie not as earlier forms of 5 course guitar where the lowest string of the fourth (and sometimes fifth) course is the upper octave.). Some further justification for this arrangement of basses is given by a slightly earlier MS CZ -Brn MsD189 (c. 1730) which gives the tuning for the Callezono (gallichon aka mandora) and contains music for viola da gamba (I think) in staff notation and later (f.48) a page headed 'Fundamenta Chytarra' and on its reverse a tuning table headed ' Accordo Chytarra et Mandora'. Much of the music is for 5 course with just the occasional sixth course tuned just a tone lower than the fifth (ie as also used by Scheidler for his guitar sonatas at the end of the century and for much mandora music) regards Martyn Thanks Martyn. That's what I thought. I like to set up my guitar like this every so often. It sound very different! Stuart __ From: WALSH STUART To: Eduard Agullo ; Vihuela List Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2016, 11:46 Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Diesel >The Royal Library of Copenhagen has made available finally this little >known repertoire: > > [1][1]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.h tml > >[2]En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael ... >www.kb.dk >En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael Diesel (GKS 377 >folio) > >Let us hope that Diesel will be more appreciated and performed now ! > >Eduard V. Agullà ³ Lots of music! (But not guitar music in 5 and 6). What is the most likely stringing arrangement for this guitar music? Low A? Stuart > >-- > > References > >1. [2]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html >2. [3]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. [5]https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- References 1. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 2. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 3. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
[VIHUELA] Re: Diesel
Stuart, There appears to be no contemporaneous evidence of precisely how Diesel strung his guitar. From consideration of the music, voice leading, period of composition etc, I believe Diesel used a mandora like stringing - ie octaves on the fourth and fifths but with the low bass on the thumb side (ie not as earlier forms of 5 course guitar where the lowest string of the fourth (and sometimes fifth) course is the upper octave.). Some further justification for this arrangement of basses is given by a slightly earlier MS CZ -Brn MsD189 (c. 1730) which gives the tuning for the Callezono (gallichon aka mandora) and contains music for viola da gamba (I think) in staff notation and later (f.48) a page headed 'Fundamenta Chytarra' and on its reverse a tuning table headed ' Accordo Chytarra et Mandora'. Much of the music is for 5 course with just the occasional sixth course tuned just a tone lower than the fifth (ie as also used by Scheidler for his guitar sonatas at the end of the century and for much mandora music) regards Martyn __ From: WALSH STUART To: Eduard Agullo ; Vihuela List Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2016, 11:46 Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Diesel >The Royal Library of Copenhagen has made available finally this little >known repertoire: > > [1][1]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.h tml > >[2]En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael ... >www.kb.dk >En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael Diesel (GKS 377 >folio) > >Let us hope that Diesel will be more appreciated and performed now ! > >Eduard V. Agullà ³ Lots of music! (But not guitar music in 5 and 6). What is the most likely stringing arrangement for this guitar music? Low A? Stuart > >-- > > References > >1. [2]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html >2. [3]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. [5]https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- References 1. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 2. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 3. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
[VIHUELA] Re: Diesel
The Royal Library of Copenhagen has made available finally this little known repertoire: [1]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html [2]En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael ... www.kb.dk En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael Diesel (GKS 377 folio) Let us hope that Diesel will be more appreciated and performed now ! Eduard V. Agulló Lots of music! (But not guitar music in 5 and 6). What is the most likely stringing arrangement for this guitar music? Low A? Stuart -- References 1. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 2. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
[VIHUELA] Re: Diesel
Sorry, I sent you the full search link - here is the direct link [1]Prinsesse Charlotte Amalies nodesamling Prinsesse Charlotte Amalies nodesamling Martyn - Forwarded Message - From: Martyn Hodgson To: Eduard Agullo ; Vihuela List Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2016, 10:00 Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Diesel Dear Eduard, Thanks for this: my ancient photocopies (half size!) have become increasingly difficult to read so this is welcome. A useful summary of these books was presented by David Lyons' paper in the 1975 JLSA ' Nathanael Diesel, guitar tutor to a royal lady'. The lady being his pupil Princess Charlotte Amalie of Denmark. There are duplicates of some pieces in the various books but I'm unaware of a complete list of concordances etc. Lyons did helpfully summarise the contents of each book - GKS 377 (20 books) and NKS 110 (14 books). But he seemed unaware of GKS 1879 - the paper by Kristian Buhl-Mortensen 'Princess Charlotte Amalie's Music Collection' describes some of this as well as the other MSs. Link here [2]https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Buhl-Moprtensen+Princess+Charlotte &rlz=1C1AOHY_enGB708GB708&oq=Buhl-Moprtensen+Princess+Charlotte&aqs=chr ome..69i57.28642j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Kristian+Buhl-Mortensen +Princess+Charlotte+Amalie%27s+Music+Collection+ Martyn. __ From: Eduard Agullo To: Vihuela List Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2016, 19:06 Subject: [VIHUELA] Diesel The Royal Library of Copenhagen has made available finally this little known repertoire: [1][3]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.h tml [2]En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael ... www.kb.dk En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael Diesel (GKS 377 folio) Let us hope that Diesel will be more appreciated and performed now ! Eduard V. Agulló -- References 1. [4]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 2. [5]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References Visible links 1. http://buhl-mortensen.dk/fibiger.html 2. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Buhl-Moprtensen+Princess+Charlotte&rlz=1C1AOHY_enGB708GB708&oq=Buhl-Moprtensen+Princess+Charlotte&aqs=chrome..69i57.28642j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Kristian+Buhl-Mortensen+Princess+Charlotte+Amalie's+Music+Collection+ 3. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 4. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 5. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Hidden links: 8. http://buhl-mortensen.dk/fibiger.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Diesel
Dear Eduard, Thanks for this: my ancient photocopies (half size!) have become increasingly difficult to read so this is welcome. A useful summary of these books was presented by David Lyons' paper in the 1975 JLSA ' Nathanael Diesel, guitar tutor to a royal lady'. The lady being his pupil Princess Charlotte Amalie of Denmark. There are duplicates of some pieces in the various books but I'm unaware of a complete list of concordances etc. Lyons did helpfully summarise the contents of each book - GKS 377 (20 books) and NKS 110 (14 books). But he seemed unaware of GKS 1879 - the paper by Kristian Buhl-Mortensen 'Princess Charlotte Amalie's Music Collection' describes some of this as well as the other MSs. Link here [1]https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Buhl-Moprtensen+Princess+Charlotte &rlz=1C1AOHY_enGB708GB708&oq=Buhl-Moprtensen+Princess+Charlotte&aqs=chr ome..69i57.28642j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Kristian+Buhl-Mortensen +Princess+Charlotte+Amalie%27s+Music+Collection+ Martyn. __ From: Eduard Agullo To: Vihuela List Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2016, 19:06 Subject: [VIHUELA] Diesel The Royal Library of Copenhagen has made available finally this little known repertoire: [1][2]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.h tml [2]En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael ... www.kb.dk En Samling Tabulaturer for Guitar, mest af Nathanael Diesel (GKS 377 folio) Let us hope that Diesel will be more appreciated and performed now ! Eduard V. Agulló -- References 1. [3]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 2. [4]http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Buhl-Moprtensen+Princess+Charlotte&rlz=1C1AOHY_enGB708GB708&oq=Buhl-Moprtensen+Princess+Charlotte&aqs=chrome..69i57.28642j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Kristian+Buhl-Mortensen+Princess+Charlotte+Amalie's+Music+Collection+ 2. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 3. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 4. http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/gks377.html 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Diesel duets uploaded
In these MSs Diesel seems to have been both the compiler of other people's work ( eg Schikhardt) and a composer of many of the pieces. M --- On Tue, 20/1/09, Stuart Walsh wrote: From: Stuart Walsh Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Diesel duets uploaded To: "Mjos & Larson" Cc: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 20 January, 2009, 7:40 PM > I have uploaded scores of two duets by Nathanael Diesel to my Ning member page: > http://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/RockyMjos > > -- R > > Great stuff. I'll certainly have a crack at these pieces. Martyn pointed me in the direction of this page: http://buhl-mortensen.dk/fibiger.html#English And now I'm getting getting confused. Kristain Buhl-Mortensen says, of someone called, J. F. Fibiger: "Beginning after Frederik IV's death in 1730, he (Fibiger) wrote a total of five books with guitar tablature, with an accompanying bass book, that chronologically match the guitar books perfectly. In all, they contain 255 pieces for guitar with a bass part, 37 pieces with a second guitar part and 34 hymns in guitar tablature. There are many single pieces but also 42 suites (Sonata) with between three and six movements." So: is Diesel's music in addition to this? And what about the Schickhardt sonatas? And the piece on the page - with some of its ornaments written out - is reminiscent of the Hertzberg MS? Stuart > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1900 - Release Date: 18/01/2009 12:11 > > --
[VIHUELA] Re: Diesel duets uploaded
I have uploaded scores of two duets by Nathanael Diesel to my Ning member page: http://earlyguitar.ning.com/profile/RockyMjos -- R Great stuff. I'll certainly have a crack at these pieces. Martyn pointed me in the direction of this page: http://buhl-mortensen.dk/fibiger.html#English And now I'm getting getting confused. Kristain Buhl-Mortensen says, of someone called, J. F. Fibiger: "Beginning after Frederik IV's death in 1730, he (Fibiger) wrote a total of five books with guitar tablature, with an accompanying bass book, that chronologically match the guitar books perfectly. In all, they contain 255 pieces for guitar with a bass part, 37 pieces with a second guitar part and 34 hymns in guitar tablature. There are many single pieces but also 42 suites (Sonata) with between three and six movements." So: is Diesel's music in addition to this? And what about the Schickhardt sonatas? And the piece on the page - with some of its ornaments written out - is reminiscent of the Hertzberg MS? Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1900 - Release Date: 18/01/2009 12:11