[VO]:Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
I have a copy of a Russian paper on a new physical method of disinfection of water that addresses a portion of the magnetic water theme. I will send a jpg to anyone that wishes to read it. Richard, Can you drop me a copy, please? [Sorry to mail this to list, rather than privately, but my ISP is currently blacklisted by Richard's...] Patrick
Re: [Vo]: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
I wrote: Does yours resemble any of these pictures? Terry wrote: Yes. But these seem to use an electrolyte. Schiffer is quite clear that he considers using an electrolyte is OK *if necessary*, and you're going for a relatively quick result. However, he also says that For the patient experimenter or one that is using neat water, i.e., water without electrolyte, excellent results are achieved with currents as low as 50 m/Amps. He's since stressed this on list - very low current (still at around 12vdc) is effective. I can't believe someone did that spherical attempt. I seriously doubt the geometry matters. If you look at Moshe's homepage, you'll see that he has a definite world view. Now, what we've been discussing on this list has been purely in mechanistic terms, whereas there are those on the JC lists that hold other (and various), more 'spiritual' views. To these individuals, geometry may matter a great deal - Schiffer's position is that he believes the true JC is a 'down converter' of energies from another place. What I find interesting, and why I sometimes seem to lurch from one position to another, is that both views may be perfectly valid, depending upon the frame of reference. Science as we know it does a fair job of explaining the rules/laws that govern the three dimensional world that we see on a daily basis. Why shouldn't there be also be certain set 'laws' governing that which we cannot see - the higher dimensions, spirituality or however you wish to describe it. If there are such laws, and if we accept that these other planes of existence intersect with ours, then it may make absolute sense that certain geometry's are key to tapping these energies (think about Hinton's [e.g.] descriptions of 2D and 3D world interactions for a simple explanation as to why this could be so). Patrick
Re: [Vo]: Re: Electrochemical Reduction of CO2 to Organic Fuels
The nuts and bolts of it. http://www.osti.gov/bridge/ "The Information Bridge: DOE Scientific and Technical Information provides free public access to full-text documents and bibliographic citations of Department of Energy (DOE) research report literature. Documents are primarily from 1994 forward and were produced by DOE, the DOE contractor community, and/or DOE grantees. Legacy documents are added as they become available in electronic format." http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/777868-EA5V2v/native/777868.pdf Comparison of electrochemical and photochemical systems. When the catalytic reduction of carbon dioxide is truly homogeneous (occurs in the solution), electrochemical and photochemical systems may have much in common. The means of electron delivery differs, of course, with photoinduced electron transfer processes serving the role of the electrode in the photochemical system. Many of the catalyst systems studied so far, cobalt and nickel macrocycle systems, for example, work in both kinds of experiments. In both approaches, the ultimate source of these electrons is an issue. Sacrificial reagents (generally organic compounds that become oxidized) are commonly used and one of the challenges is to replace these reactions with processes that are less costly and wasteful. For aqueous systems, it would be highly desirable to use the water oxidation half-reaction, i.e. H20 =2e-+1/2 02 + 2H+ for this purpose so that the overall reaction would be COZ + 2 Hz0 + CHsOH + 3/2 OzThe challenge remains the effective development and deployment of water oxidation catalysts. Electrocatalysis Photocatalytic Reduction At present, electrochemical reduction of CO2 yields carbon monoxide, formate, methane, etc. with good current efficiencies and, in photochemical systems, quantum yields for carbon monoxide (and/or formate) are up to 40%. Electrochemical and photochemical electron sources in the presence of proton sources can avoid use of expensive H2, but both need: Faster catalytic processes, more stable catalytic systemsDevelopment of useful second half reaction, i.e. elimination of sacrificial reagent/useful anode reaction
Re: [Vo]: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
On 8/2/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Schiffer is quite clear that he considers using an electrolyte is OK *if necessary*, and you're going for a relatively quick result. I'll probably try it both ways. Distilled water at Walmart is only $0.68/gal. However, he also says that For the patient experimenter or one that is using neat water, i.e., water without electrolyte, excellent results are achieved with currents as low as 50 m/Amps. He's since stressed this on list - very low current (still at around 12vdc) is effective. Gee, I don't see how you can get 50 mA with 12 VDC with neat water. I'm only getting 1.1 mA with 9 VDC. Larger surface area? snip If there are such laws, and if we accept that these other planes of existence intersect with ours, then it may make absolute sense that certain geometry's are key to tapping these energies (think about Hinton's [e.g.] descriptions of 2D and 3D world interactions for a simple explanation as to why this could be so). I know that I know practically nothing about reality. Current string theory speculates that there are 6 hidden dimensions rolled up into a Calabi-Yau geometry. WTF is a Calabi-Yaw manifold? http://members.wri.com/jeffb/visualization/calabi-grid.gif Terry
[Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
Terry, Gee, I don't see how you can get 50 mA with 12 VDC with neat water. I'm only getting 1.1 mA with 9 VDC. Larger surface area? The cell Patrick is talking about has only two or three neutral plates - you have 16 total - 14 neutral, correct? Your plate-to-plate voltage drop in tiny. The neutral plates would divide the voltage drop, which you want to be under about 1.2 per plate so that electrolysis does NOT take place, but close to that level so that the max current can flow w/o gas forming. With 16 plates you can probably use 20 volts. Do you have a wall-wart near that level? Some of the HP large block transformers that they used to sell with their printers are 24 volts ... What about using two wall-warts in series? you have so many free wires you could use the plates one and sixteen (like now) and the attach the second leads to plates 5 and 11, or some such series arrangement. or else try to find a block with more ripple or else what about - one AC and one DC? sounds weird ... you could use the DC on the end plates:one and sixteen (like now) and the attach the AC on plates 5 and 11, or some such arrangement to get the net current WAY up from what it is now Jones
RE: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
I went over our 12 plate (~ 1.0 cm spacing) with my cohort/lackey with a starting voltage of about 9 volts at 1.6 ma on the rechargeable power unit there were small bubbles on the water-plastic interface near the anode plate too. The rechargeable dc supply was brought up to ~ 13 vdc and the current maxed at less than 2.0 ma for a day or so until baking soda was added to increase it to about 19 ma. Adding borax the next day increased the current to almost an ampere. Fred Jones Beene wrote. Terry, Gee, I don't see how you can get 50 mA with 12 VDC with neat water. I'm only getting 1.1 mA with 9 VDC. Larger surface area? The cell Patrick is talking about has only two or three neutral plates - you have 16 total - 14 neutral, correct? Your plate-to-plate voltage drop in tiny. The neutral plates would divide the voltage drop, which you want to be under about 1.2 per plate so that electrolysis does NOT take place, but close to that level so that the max current can flow w/o gas forming. With 16 plates you can probably use 20 volts. Do you have a wall-wart near that level? Some of the HP large block transformers that they used to sell with their printers are 24 volts ... What about using two wall-warts in series? you have so many free wires you could use the plates one and sixteen (like now) and the attach the second leads to plates 5 and 11, or some such series arrangement. or else try to find a block with more ripple or else what about - one AC and one DC? sounds weird ... you could use the DC on the end plates:one and sixteen (like now) and the attach the AC on plates 5 and 11, or some such arrangement to get the net current WAY up from what it is now Jones
Re: [Vo]: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
Terry Blanton wrote. On 8/2/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Schiffer is quite clear that he considers using an electrolyte is OK *if necessary*, and you're going for a relatively quick result. I'll probably try it both ways. Distilled water at Walmart is only $0.68/gal. However, he also says that For the patient experimenter or one that is using neat water, i.e., water without electrolyte, excellent results are achieved with currents as low as 50 m/Amps. He's since stressed this on list - very low current (still at around 12vdc) is effective. Gee, I don't see how you can get 50 mA with 12 VDC with neat water. I'm only getting 1.1 mA with 9 VDC. Larger surface area? With all those wired up plates, check the voltage between two of them to see how the resistivity rho = Resistance*Area/spacing, is looking. I won't insult your intellect by saying V = I*R. :-) Fred Terry
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
On 8/2/06, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With 16 plates you can probably use 20 volts. Do you have a wall-wart near that level? Some of the HP large block transformers that they used to sell with their printers are 24 volts ... What about using two wall-warts in series? you have so many free wires you could use the plates one and sixteen (like now) and the attach the second leads to plates 5 and 11, or some such series arrangement. Okay. I have a hefty 24 V xfmr and two twelve volt batteries. I'll finish out the week with the present config and put the sample in storage. (Masonic jar? eg) For sample two, I'll kick it up a notch to 24V with distilled water. I've found a volunteer to test the final hydrobooster in one of his fleet vehicles which gets 17.1 mpg. He said if I can get a 30% boost in his mileage, I can do all his fleet for $600 each. His drivers go 30,000 mi/yr. His fuel cost is $5200 per vehicle per year; so, his savings would be $1,560 per year. I figure my material cost would be around $100 per unit. All the parts (and day labor) are available at Home Despot. :-) Terry You want franchises with that?
Re: [Vo]: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
On 8/2/06, Frederick Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With all those wired up plates, check the voltage between two of them to see how the resistivity rho = Resistance*Area/spacing, is looking. I won't insult your intellect by saying V = I*R. :-) So, why does current only flow between the plates? It can't go around? Terry
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
On 8/2/06, Willis Jenkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What ever this may be worth, otherwise sorry for taking your time. No no!! This is just the information we need. I love it when a lurker joins in. I'm getting bored talking to the same old farts. ;-) Do you have a picture of your setup? If you can' t post it, send it to my email address and I'll post it for you. Terry
[Vo]: unsubscribe
Hey Guys, How do I unsubscribe? Thanks! Anthony
[Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
Terry I've found a volunteer to test the final hydrobooster in one of his fleet vehicles which gets 17.1 mpg. He said if I can get a 30% boost in his mileage, I can do all his fleet for $600 each. Whoa... that might be a bit hasty. I think you will see a 30% boost if the device is properly built and sized, etc. but there are so many unanswered questions about long term corrosion, etc. John Steck mentioned this briefly. If the valves go prematurely, then all the savings and more are quickly eaten up. ... at least get a big product liability insurance policy !! Jones
Re: [Vo]: unsubscribe
same way you subscribed, but in reverse. On 8/2/06, Anthony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Guys,How do I unsubscribe?Thanks!Anthony -- That which yields isn't always weak.
[Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
I promise not to be a lurking pest, so I will impart a few more caveats before moving back into the shadows. I'm sure you all know that the current increase is not a linear function, it increases in steps, you will add voltage and see very little difference and then bam! up a few or 10's of mA. I must say that when you do not see gas being evolved that you are working closer to strickly ohmic conduction versus ionic. Also you will not be able to stop gas once you exceed as Robin stated ~ 1.2V. Although some in the field have evolved gas below this level with the proper supply (pulsed DC). The Teflon pan may not be the best of containers to try your test in, I might suggest a liter beaker or some HDPE container. What I have observed is that a passive metal container is part of the circuit, if connected or not. Over the years many a SS container has suffered microscopic pin holes when being used in this way. I'll keep watching and if I think I have anything of value I'll drop a line. Good Luck..
[Vo]: Cavitation Propulsion?
Has anyone ever attempted to use cavitation as a form of propulsion? Perhaps that's what Schauberger or Clem were doing.
[Vo]: Hydrogen boosting
This page has a fairly complete listing of companies making electrolysis cells for the add-on market for cars and trucks. http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Fuel_Efficiency_Hydrogen_Injection I suspect that long-haul trucking is the biggest and most demanding customer for these. Here is one test showing a bona fide 30% highway gain for trucking : http://ihsresearch.com/gallery.php?id=3 This involved using a 1994 Detroit Diesel 60 Series Heavy Goods Vehicle (HGV) at two different test sites near Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. Canada seems to have more makers of add-on systems than the USA for whatever reasons. More long-haul trucking mileage per population, for one thing. The cynic might say lax laws regarding stock manipulation, is another factor. Jones
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water
On 8/2/06, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whoa... that might be a bit hasty. I think you will see a 30% boost if the device is properly built and sized, etc. but there are so many unanswered questions about long term corrosion, etc. John Steck mentioned this briefly. If the valves go prematurely, then all the savings and more are quickly eaten up. ... at least get a big product liability insurance policy !! Geeze, you sound like an attorney. ;-) We will start with his oldest vehicle which he can no longer depreciate. He knows the risks. The rewards far outweigh his risk. Even a 10% improvement pays back in a little over a year. I mainly want to see if there's any difference due to charging. Terry
Re: [Vo]: OT: The Secret of Life, Free Energy The Human Body
In a message dated 7/21/2006 5:33:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Psychics offer a service that, scientifically, has yet to be provenactually exists, and that is just one aspect of proof it would take toconvince Shermer. Russian scientists have already proven psychic ideas and techniques to be factual and scientific. The book- The Body Electric, Electormagnatism and the Foundation of Life, Robert 0. Becker, M.D., And Gary Seldon illustrated by David Bichell, Quill, William Morrow New York Copyright C 1985 by Robert O. Becker, M.D. and Gary Seldon references many Russian and other scientific experiments that would support psychic ideas and techniques. Nikola Tesla and many other scientists from before World War II, had developed technologies that were published in the New York Times, that are now classified by the US NSA to be used in psychotronic warfare and to control the US population illegally. A simple variable capacitor and ultrasonic sound capacitors connected to a tesla coil and to a computer system using a software spectrum analyzer can be used to see the white noise region which is the regions where the aura, mind, andtime travel information is located and can be seen, heard,and modeled on a computer screen. Many animals like mice and cats which some people are related to can hear higher spectrum sounds and energies in the white noise region that allow them to hear sounds and thoughtsfrom the future and the past. The movie Black Moon (1975), showed how the world wars between the sexes, were used to kill off the telepathic French village and replace it with a non-telepathic post war culture which also covers up and classifies all science done before World War II to hide telepathic ideas. In the movie the Black Moon the telepathic grandmother speaks with mice, since she can hear their higher pitched voices that normal persons cannot hear but which mice and many other animals can hear and speak to each other with. The grandmotherly women is shown speaking to perhaps Richard Wagner in the past by means of a radio to warn Wagner of the outcome of the war between the sexes and World War II. The US scientists do not read and often ignore Russian science and pre-World War II science, since it would be used to also show what the US government mind and body control energy beamprojects are doing to the USA population. Best Regards, Baron Volsung, www.rhfweb.com/baronPresident Thomas D. Clark, Email form: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html, Personal Web Page: http://www.rhfweb.com/personal.htmlArchitectural Engineers, http://www.rhfweb.com/aeStar Haven Community Services, at http://www.rhfweb.com/shRadiation Health Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb.com/Baron Volsung, www.rhfweb.com/baronMaking a difference one person at a timeGet informed. Inform others
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water Picture
WJ's setup is here: http://geocities.com/terry1094/wtrchg.jpg Willis, How long have you been charging in this photo? Is there an electrolyte? If so, what kind (NaCl, KOH, etc)? Voltage and current? TIA Terry On 8/2/06, Willis Jenkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a simple unit, 500ml distilled (farm grade), 12mm carbon cathode, two 2mm SS rod anodes. Input voltage 4.6V at 6.4mA. Doesn't show much but I will send it anyway. Thanks...
[Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water Picture
Terry Willis already answered your questions in the same post ... must be a hot afternoon in Hot-lanta... g Here is a simple unit, 500ml distilled (farm grade), 12mm carbon cathode, two 2mm SS rod anodes. Input voltage 4.6V at 6.4mA. That seems to prove his point about carbon being special for this kind of application - to get that kind of current in distilled water with such a gap - combined with Fred's speculation about a possible catalytic effect --ergo, am ordering carbon cathodes to try. These folks have them: http://www.sargentwelch.com/product.asp?pn=WLS14570-C_PKsid=googlecm_mmc=google-_-cpc-_-sgtw-_-carbonrods
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water Picture
On 8/2/06, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry Willis already answered your questions in the same post ... must be a hot afternoon in Hot-lanta... g Yeah, and since Iana.org took over the Inet, nothing has been right. However, I have some bad news. I tested experimental and control water and got no BAM effect. Then, thinking about homemade icecream and Grimer, (what a combination!), I took some (5 ml) charged water and added a few grains of NaCl. Well, it fuggin' chimed (with a 30 Hz buzz) and exploded. So did the (5 ml sample) control. Sorry. Terry PS Ain't changin' my procedure, however.
[Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water Picture
If any of you are going to work with carbon (graphite) rods, save some money, this is where we obtain them. http://www.graphitestore.com/cat.asp/spcat_id/1
[Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water Picture
Ok, darn... so Terry is telling me that the exposiveness in a microwave oven of my charged water is due only to the small NaCl content. If 100% true, that makes it slightly less interesting in a way, but that does not account for the much greater amount of gas derived from this water during normal electrolysis (at least for a while). This is hard to document but we are working on it. BTW - placing a one liter HDPE cell (aka tupperware) on a magnetic stirrer (no stir bar, of course, as the cathode is centered) instead of on a large magnet gives significantly more turbulent action with the same low current through the cell - as one might expect. Anode is nickel mesh held against the container wall of the tupperware with plastic clothes-pins ... very high tech. Calling this one the whirlpool. This is to determine if electromechanical motion is itself significant in the precharging regime and Teflon is unnecessary (polyethylene is also very hydrophobic). Too early to tell. If the mechanical motion is important, Richard could make this stuff in industrial quantities by adding some charging electrodes to his monster vortex machine. Wouldn't surprise me if this has already crossed his mind. Jones The water movement is being called vortex even through there is no hole - the flow appears to spiral out to the wall, break into eddies, go down, and come up again in the center - so the path of an average molecule would most likely be roughly a helix. One speculation is that any ordered macro-spin of water-movement could, over time, impart some level of microstructure (if it can be determined that electromechanical action is how the structural viscosity develops). Still hopeful that Terry can make some unsalted BAM water ...
Re: [Vo]: Re: Magnetic Vortices Charged Water Picture
On 8/2/06, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still hopeful that Terry can make some unsalted BAM water ... It's still chargin'! BTW, Blanton distilleries make some premium bourbon: http://www.blantonsbourbon.com But don't snipe at that: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/25/highway.shootings.ap/index.html (He looks like my cousin Jimmy.) Terry
Re: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:07:41 -0400: Hi Terry, [snip] There are 16 plates and no electrolysis was anticipated. Also, Jones had recommended an even lower voltage. The goal was to charge the water, not make gas. Then perhaps you should simply disconnect the anode completely. Besides, gas is forming on the surface of the teflon between the anode and the opposing insulated side of the pan. This is something other than electrolysis . . . something I don't understand. Perhaps it's just dissolved gas in the water forming a bubble at the site of a dislocation in the surface of the Teflon. Perhaps it got scratched somewhat when you put the assembly in the tray? A simple test might be to make a deliberate scratch somewhere, and see if it collects bubbles. Is the tray itself plastic all the way through, or just a plastic coating on metal? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means.
