Re: [Vo]:More leaked (?) info from Defkalion GT
So if they funded the trip then why didn't they publish any results? After all they are a charity that is trying to promote and expand LENR research - and publishing good results would surely help this. I can only surmise that Defkalion prevented publication, which would contradict their earlier statements about allowing independent testers to publish. Hiding poor results? On 23 October 2012 18:59, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-10-22 14:14, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, As a side note, it appears that the entity which funded Michael A. Nelson's traveling expenses was not the Free Energy Foundation, but rather the New Energy Foundation. This correction comes from Mark Gibbs of Forbes. See [1] and footnotes on [2]. The New Energy Foundation is none other than: http://www.infinite-energy.com/whoarewe/whoarewe.html Cheers, S.A. [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/10/20/cold-fusion-gets-a-little-more-real/2/ [2] http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/10/20/cold-fusion-gets-a-little-more-real/3/
Re: [Vo]:More leaked (?) info from Defkalion GT
Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: So if they funded the trip then why didn't they publish any results? Because they are under NDAs. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:More leaked (?) info from Defkalion GT
-Original Message- From: Robert Lynn I can only surmise that Defkalion prevented publication, which would contradict their earlier statements about allowing independent testers to publish. Hiding poor results? Yes - I think they are hiding results, but poor in this context, is a bit like beauty since it is in the eye of the beholder... at least in one sense. In short, they could be hiding decent results. Defkalion has been burdened with poor management, too few qualified scientists - and a flawed business plan. Dumber than dumb. Their business plan envisioned charging extremely high up-front license fees for every country. This is/was idiotic without very strong results indicating ready for market... Not to mention the dishonesty of their past claims, such as the Xanthi fiasco. Thus, when it comes to managerial expectation, a COP of less than 3 would completely ruin their former business plan - which looks already dead in the water to everyone else. They thought they could salvage some of that plan, perhaps, with a modest COP over 3, and maybe they had hints of this level at times. But since they are in dire circumstances now - they cannot even afford the move to Canada due to almost all of their investors going south so to speak, they had to resort to shoddy practices - once again. But think about this: those who are in it for the science, and many of us here on vortex, see things differently to the extent that a PROVED result of far lower COP- say it was 200 watts-in on average, and say 300 watts out, on average, for a COP of half of what they claim - WOW - this would be true beauty - phenomenal, state-of-the-art really, at least when proved, and replicated by others! At this point in time - when you look at what seems to be defensible proof of operation of any LENR device over 10 watts, for far longer than chemical energy would permit- what is really out-there that one can point to? Celani only. In short, if we demand the kind of proof that professionals like those at N.I. can give, with open replications in progress - then Rossi is out, no proof - likewise Brillouin, Piantelli, the Toyota consortium and the rest are out - so there is really only Celani. True, even Celani is not yet independently replicated, at least not on the record, but insiders think the first replication will be published soon. It is possible DGT could have already achieved more than Celani ... but less than what they need to sell absurd licenses. And a DGT with good management should have been proud to present more modest results, if they had it. But yes, if what they can prove is COP of 1.5 (guess) then for them it would be - not just poor results, but a complete deal-breaker, if you are trying to sell a license to someone for $50 million. Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Aliens Favour Romney
Jeff Berkowitz pdx...@gmail.com wrote: The remainder of this paper is, or will be, or has been, depending on the reader's inertial frame, divided into three sections. That's wonderful. Still, I can't think of any reason for interstellar trade. If you can travel between stars you can also send a complete replicator images for any manufactured material object. Eventually even for living things, and people. I am not sure what to call the software image you put into a replicator. Design? Blueprint? Genome? Here are some, whatever you call them: http://www.thingiverse.com/ - Jed
Re: [Vo]:PopSci article on Rossi now online
Popsci : If history is any guide, no such report would be issued. Rossi will reset the goalpoststhe only thing he does with any consistencyand forestall his day of reckoning for another few months, and then another few months after that, until finally he disappears from the stage in a puff of smoke, taking his black box with him. Rossi: Andrea Rossi October 23rd, 2012 at 9:09 PM Dear Drew: Important news are on their way. Warm Regards, A.R. Andrea Rossi October 23rd, 2012 at 9:11 PM Dear Avi: Leonardo Corp. will not be the same from the next week. I am in the USA, where an inportant event has been born from the last tests. Warm Regards, A.R.
Re: [Vo]:PopSci article on Rossi now online
Rossi wrote: Leonardo Corp. will not be the same from the next week. I am in the USA, where an inportant event has been born from the last tests. Warm Regards, A.R. Oh boy. Here we go again. Despite his foibles, I really like Andrea Rossi. He annoys the heck out of me. He is infuriating! And yet, somehow, you can't help but like him. He is such a character. A force of nature! Like the guy in the beer ad: he is the most interesting man in the world. If he succeeds all his sins will be forgiven. And forgotten. The history books will describe him as a hero. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Aliens Favour Romney
I wrote: I am not sure what to call the software image you put into a replicator. Design? Blueprint? Genome? Template? Clarke described replicators in Profiles (1963). He called the instructions the matrix or memory. The ones we have now are only the beginning of the technology. Clarke wrote: The advent of the replicator would mean the end of all factories, and perhaps all transportation of raw materials and all farming. The entire structure of industry and commerce, as it is now organized, would cease to exist. Every family would produce all that it needed on the spot—as, indeed, it has had to do throughout most of human history. The present machine era of mass production would then be seen as a brief interregnum between two far longer periods of self-sufficiency, and the only valuable items of exchange would be the matrices, or recordings, which had to be inserted in the replicator to control its creations. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:More leaked (?) info from Defkalion GT
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: True, even Celani is not yet independently replicated, at least not on the record, but insiders think the first replication will be published soon. It looks like HUG might have experienced a LENR event. http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/97-burn-out-event-data
Re: [Vo]:PopSci article on Rossi now online
Jed sez: ... Despite his foibles, I really like Andrea Rossi. He annoys the heck out of me. He is infuriating! And yet, somehow, you can't help but like him. He is such a character. A force of nature! Like the guy in the beer ad: he is the most interesting man in the world. If he succeeds all his sins will be forgiven. And forgotten. The history books will describe him as a hero. I must admit that fact that I enjoy keeping track of Rossi's story book adventures. I'm glad there are plenty of others who have made it their personal business to keep track of this colorful Italian. Makes it easy for me. Despite all of the shoot-himself-in-his-own-foot antics that Rossi seems to have done to himself, despite all the intentionally bad press derived from self-proclaimed experts, such as from SK, it seems to me that Rossi has yet to be proven beyond a shadow of doubt that he is a charlatan. SK has been relentless in the spoon feeding of his readership that Rossi is to be perceived as nothing more than a convicted criminal, while conveniently leaving out the fact that he was exhonerated from his prior convictions. But no matter. Rossi is like a cat that always seems to land on his feet. Granted, few have reason trust Rossi, and rightly so. But as far as I can tell the only thing that has stuck on Rossi has been insinuation after insinuation that he is nothing more than charlatan, or perhaps a convicted criminal with a record. On that point it would seem that Rossi has done little to dissuade skeptics that he isn't. To me, Rossi's behavior is akin to that of a carnival barker. I continue my vigil, wondering whether his eCats really work as advertised or will they turn out to be a three-headed calf preserved in formaldehyde. Since the competition appeaers to be growing stronger I'm less concerned about the continuing saga of Rossi's tarnished reputation since it is becoming likely that others will soon pick up the ball and deposit the winnings in their own cash register. I still hope that Rossi will eventually succeed in his grand quest, but we shall see. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:PopSci article on Rossi now online
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: I think we have been a little unfair to Mary. I have never minded her complaints. She does not lack for enthusiasm and focus. Well, you can get your fill here at her home port: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/ where she seems to be irritating her cohorts.
RE: [Vo]:More leaked (?) info from Defkalion GT
It's just a DETACHMENT event. Let's hope them to find something interresting after the ongoing calibration. -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: mercredi 24 octobre 2012 20:27 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:More leaked (?) info from Defkalion GT On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: True, even Celani is not yet independently replicated, at least not on the record, but insiders think the first replication will be published soon. It looks like HUG might have experienced a LENR event. http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/97-burn-out-event-data
Re: [Vo]:More leaked (?) info from Defkalion GT
Good old dark matter/energy. You know it is working when your device malfunctions. Stewart Darkmattersalot.com On Wednesday, October 24, 2012, Terry Blanton wrote: On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.netjavascript:; wrote: True, even Celani is not yet independently replicated, at least not on the record, but insiders think the first replication will be published soon. It looks like HUG might have experienced a LENR event. http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/97-burn-out-event-data
Re: [Vo]:PopSci article on Rossi now online
I'm pretty happy at vortex. ;) Eric Sent from my iPhone On Oct 24, 2012, at 11:30, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Well, you can get your fill here at her home port: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/ where she seems to be irritating her cohorts.
Re: [Vo]:PopSci article on Rossi now online
mix...@bigpond.com wrote: Nothing motivates people more than the prospect of making billions of dollars. ...you'd be surprised how wrong that is. I have pointed out to people that the market is on the order of trillions, with an initial investment of only an hour or so to look at what I've got, and I don't even get a reply. :( That is because they don't believe you. You have the same problem as people writing Nigerian e-mail scam letters. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:New Experiment Started
Hello Dave, I wish you the best in your new campaign tests with borax. Please, keep us up to date with discoveries and challenges you will have to face. Arnaud _ From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: mercredi 24 octobre 2012 02:54 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started It is time for a change in my experimentation. I spent a lot of time and energy with the sodium carbonate electrolyte and DC current without being able to report any proven excess power. There is evidence that the Borax electrolyte might lead to more definitive results so that is what I began using again today. Earlier I started using Borax after finding that table salt was a terribly corrosive material. I used the Borax for several days as it slowly ate away at my positively connected electrodes before I decided to go to the sodium carbonate. I stuck with the sodium carbonate for so long since I was mainly concerned about the hydrogen loading of the cathode which should have been similar with either electrolyte. Today, I rewound a transformer to yield 21 volts AC RMS. This is an ideal way to drive the system with AC since the transformer automatically isolates it from the AC mains and leads to a safe experiment. I am using 21 volts because that is all I obtained with the transformer core with which I started when I placed as many turns as possible (36) in the secondary slot with the wire size that was convenient. I was worried that this might not be enough voltage, but found that I could still drive the cell with between 1 and 2 amps RMS depending upon the spacing between the electrodes. The joule losses within the transformer are quite low and it is in no danger of overheating. The cell is receiving around 40 watts of power which is within reason. I am using a Pyrex dish for my cell, the same one that I have been using for several days. It is open and wide so the cell temperature is fairly low due to large heat loss. I am curious as to whether or not I get the strange sparks that seemed so prevalent with my earlier DC system. I have noticed that there is a lot less gas being released at the electrodes due to the AC drive current. The AC drive current does not appear to cause the green deposits that were so evident with the DC current. I initially allowed the green mess to be plated upon one of the test nickels attached to the positive DC supply connection. After a period of time the green material was shaken off and a dark deposit replaced it as the current increased. I do not know what material is plating that nickel, but it allows for good conductivity. I placed my old reliable nickel on the other electrode for the AC testing. The poor nickel has been undergoing electrolysis for many days, has been heated red hot and quenched 5 times, has been soaked in a mild acid for a couple of days, and then sanded to roughen its surface. I am not sure what else I can do to make it more miserable! Dave
Re: [Vo]:More leaked (?) info from Defkalion GT
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Defkalion has been burdened with poor management, too few qualified scientists . . . I do not know how many scientists they have. - and a flawed business plan. Dumber than dumb. Their business plan envisioned charging extremely high up-front license fees for every country. This is/was idiotic without very strong results indicating ready for market... I have to agree. I was assuming they did have market ready technology. I think it is clear they got ahead of themselves, and they do not have it. If they had had what they claimed, their plan would have been viable. It would still be grandiose in my opinion. Thus, when it comes to managerial expectation, a COP of less than 3 would completely ruin their former business plan - which looks already dead in the water to everyone else. Well, the low COP is a problem, but the main problem is the thing is a tabletop experimental unit. It does not run reliably. It is far from being market ready. There are rumors they have a market-ready one hidden away. I doubt it, because if they did, why hide it?!? Why not show it to NASA? But think about this: those who are in it for the science, and many of us here on vortex, see things differently to the extent that a PROVED result of far lower COP- say it was 200 watts-in on average, and say 300 watts out, on average, for a COP of half of what they claim - WOW - this would be true beauty - phenomenal, state-of-the-art really, at least when proved, and replicated by others! Proved, reliable anything would be fine with me. 200 watts or 20. However, as I said before, I honestly do not understand this widespread obsession with the so-called COP. As I said it is *not* a COP in the technical sense. There is no production or conversion of input to output in any sense. More important: If you have a stable, controlled reaction, you can have any COP you like. There is no doubt cold fusion reactions with no input (an infinite COP) are possible. Even if periodic input is needed the duty cycle can be set low. If you do *not* have a stable, controlled reaction, it does not matter how high the COP is. Your reactor is still not practical. It has no market value in its present state. Reactors that explode have a very high COP for a fraction of a second, but it does no good. Nobody wants that. In short, the only thing that matters is stability and control. Once you have them, you can get everything else: high power, a high COP, high temperatures, high Carnot efficiency. Test after test has shown that cold fusion reactions can have all these qualities, but without control they are useless. A controlled reaction at a fraction of a watt would be more significant that Rossi's megawatt reactor. When I say control I mean the ability to turn on, turn up and down (modulate), and turn off. This ability does not have to be as instantaneous the way it is with an electric light, or a gasoline motor controlled by a throttle. It might have a built-in lag, like the controls at a coal-fired power plant, or even a uranium fission power plant. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Aliens Favour Romney
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:57:27 -0400: Hi, [snip] Jeff Berkowitz pdx...@gmail.com wrote: The remainder of this paper is, or will be, or has been, depending on the reader's inertial frame, divided into three sections. That's wonderful. Still, I can't think of any reason for interstellar trade. There's a nice little SciFi short story about this (sorry, can't remember title or author). The basic theme is that trade is in concepts rather than objects, since these are readily exchanged, and of value to many. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Aliens Favour Romney
mix...@bigpond.com wrote: There's a nice little SciFi short story about this (sorry, can't remember title or author). The basic theme is that trade is in concepts rather than objects, since these are readily exchanged, and of value to many. Exactly. Concepts, and the templates for replicators. (Replicators are universal production machines that can make anything.) I doubt we will ever be able to communicate with an alien species enough for practical purposes, but if in the distant future people colonize other stars, I can well imagine a stream of data between the other stars and our solar system. It would include things such as: News gossip Scientific research Patents and intellectual property Replicator templates for everything from new machines and recent works of art, to new kinds of food, ready-to-eat meals, and possibly new species or important people. If another Einstein is born on Alpha centauri they may send us a copy of him. Novels, movies Pornography! It is a little difficult to imagine how we might pay for this kind of trade. How could this be a commercial transaction in any sense? Do you wire transfer money to people you can never have physical contact with you? I assume that a spaceship will take decades or centuries to reach even the closest star. What is the point of sending valuable physical objects or currency to someone's great-great grandchild? Would you fax them a check? How would they cash it, with what organization? Who would keep track of the balance, and why? Would you send them a barrel of currency? Why not send them one dollar in a replicator template and tell them to reproduce it. Actually, cash money will soon be rendered useless and ridiculous by replication machines here on earth. Within a few centuries we will be able to make perfect copies of currency, and probably diamonds or even gold coins, if we learn to transmute elements. I have heard that a good computer scanner and printer can already make a counterfeit dollar bill that fools a change machine or a MARTA ticket machine. Anyway, such trade will be useful for stars within ~30 light years. After that, the new technology will be old, and the news will be history. See chapter 10 of Profiles, Space, the Unconquerable Quote: [Interstellar] space can be mapped and crossed and occupied without definable limit; but it can never be conquered. When our race has reached its ultimate achievements, and the stars themselves are scattered no more widely than the seed of Adam, even then we shall still be like ants crawling on the face of the Earth. The ants have covered the world, but have they conquered it -- for what do their countless colonies know of it, or of each other? So it will be with us as we spread outward from Mother Earth, loosening the bonds of kinship and understanding, hearing faint and belated rumors at second -- or third -- or thousandth-hand of an ever-dwindling fraction of the entire human race. Though Earth will try to keep in touch with her children, in the end all the efforts of her archivists and historians will be defeated by time and distance, and the sheer bulk of material. For the number of distinct societies or nations, when our race is twice its present age, may be far greater than the total number of all the men who have ever lived up to the present time. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Aliens Favour Romney
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:09:27 -0400: Hi, [snip] It is a little difficult to imagine how we might pay for this kind of trade. How could this be a commercial transaction in any sense? Obviously the only system that would work is barter. IOW payment in kind. BTW such a system will effectively have to wait at least until FTL communications are achieved. Actual interstellar travel will be rare, and restricted to those that wish to study other worlds at first hand in order to acquire knowledge that is not readily traded. e.g. I can imagine that any given race might be cautious about telegraphing their DNA into the cosmos, lest it be used to create biological weapons (the only sort worth deploying at interstellar distances.) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:PopSci article on Rossi now online
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:36:32 -0400: Hi Jed, [snip] That is because they don't believe you. You have the same problem as people writing Nigerian e-mail scam letters. - Jed I suspect you are correct, but how do I overcome this? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:A little more positive article on Cold Fusion from Gibbs
Well, Mr. Gibbs, while I appreciate your reporting on Defkalion, you continue to confuse and conflate two separate issues. 1. The reality of cold fusion as a physical phenomenon. 2. The existence of practical applications. The kind of information you request below is entirely focused, in terms of what you want, on validated practical applications. At this point, those don't really exist, and it's a matter of speculation and whom to trust as to whether anything is coming soon. But the reality of cold fusion is not in question any more, not in the scientific journals, at least. There is still a lot of held opinion out there, but it hasn't been seen in the journals for almost a decade. The actual evidence that this was real was available with the publication of Miles' helium measurements by 1993, and with the confirmation of Miles' measurements after that. You wrote, in your article: Unfortunately it turned out that the Fleischmann and Pons experiment was not reliably reproducible. In the academic fracas that followed, both mens reputations were ruined and the field was quickly relegated to the domain of fringe science along with perpetual motion, telekinesis, and anti-gravity. Reliably reproducible is not a requirement for scientific validation of a phenomenon. Some phenomena are difficult to reproduce, generally because there are unknown or difficult-to-control conditions. However, what Miles found and reported in 1993 was that, while the amount of heat produced in a series of cold fusion cells was not easily predicted, the cells produced helium proportionally to the heat measured. That was an astonishing result at the time, because helium was not expected to be the main product, and far more helium was being produced than would be expected from the expected ordinary deuterium fusion reaction (which only produces helium in a tiny fraction of the involved fusions). Indeed, as it turned out, the energy produced is quite close to the expectation if deuterium is somehow fused to helium with there being no other products, no gamma rays, no neutrons, no tritium. Basically, no radiation. This work has been amply confirmed, being done with increased accuracy. There is still a lot of work to do, but the science is now clear, that a nuclear reaction is responsible for the Fleischmann-Pons Heat Effect. That is no longer being actively contested by anyone who knows the literature; what we have seen in recent years has only been the internet activity of a few pseudoskeptical cranks, raising preposterous arguments that ignore the basic evidence. Storms' paper, Status of cold fusion (2010) is the basic review recent of the field, published in Naturwissenschaften, a peer-reviewed multidisciplinary journal that's been established since 1913. It's unchallenged, so far. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEstatusofcoa.pdf However, the reality of cold fusion does not equal practical application. The effect has been extremely difficult to control. You report on recent work with nickel hydride, but that work is *not* massively confirmed, as was the palladium deuteride work of Pons and Fleischmann and others (including Miles). We don't know for sure that nickel hydride even works, though so many people are now working with it, mostly under commercial secrecy, that there probably is *something* there. We don't know what the product is, the ash. (Helium is the ash from palladium deuteride fusion.) Most importantly, we don't know how reliable the nickel hydride reaction is. One of the likely explanations for all the obfuscation and delay from Rossi and Defkalion is that they are having difficulty with reliability and sustainability. How long does one of these cells work? We don't know. While mainstream science was apparently quite happy with this situation and went about spending billions of dollars on hot fusion (there are many who claim that cold fusion was systematically marginalized and deprecated by establishment scientists), a few rogue researchers continued with cold fusion research and, over the last few years, evidence has piled up that cold fusion may, in fact, be real. It's just not accurate. The evidence for reality was available by a decade ago. It was difficult to get anything published, and that's a major story on its own. It's been covered by a sociologist of science, a book called Undead Science, by Simon. What's been happening recently is the flap about nickel hydride, and evidence for the reality of of nickel hydride nuclear reactions is still anecdotal and shady. I wrote may be real because until recently the evidence looked promising but hardly conclusive. Again, this confuses the issue. Cold fusion is real, as found with palladium deuteride, under the right conditions, that's been confirmed by hundreds of researchers, independently. Promising would be, again, a reference to practical
Re: [Vo]:A little more positive article on Cold Fusion from Gibbs
Dear Abd, Some people are focused on Truth, some on Value. Mark is interested in Value- he wants CF/LENR to be useful, to do something good- give energy to the people. Your premises being different there is difficult to arrive at compatible views. However if CF generates Value, than it is implicitly true. Peter On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote: Well, Mr. Gibbs, while I appreciate your reporting on Defkalion, you continue to confuse and conflate two separate issues. 1. The reality of cold fusion as a physical phenomenon. 2. The existence of practical applications. The kind of information you request below is entirely focused, in terms of what you want, on validated practical applications. At this point, those don't really exist, and it's a matter of speculation and whom to trust as to whether anything is coming soon. But the reality of cold fusion is not in question any more, not in the scientific journals, at least. There is still a lot of held opinion out there, but it hasn't been seen in the journals for almost a decade. The actual evidence that this was real was available with the publication of Miles' helium measurements by 1993, and with the confirmation of Miles' measurements after that. You wrote, in your article: Unfortunately it turned out that the Fleischmann and Pons experiment was not reliably reproducible. In the academic fracas that followed, both men’s reputations were ruined and the field was quickly relegated to the domain of “fringe” science along with perpetual motion, telekinesis, and anti-gravity. Reliably reproducible is not a requirement for scientific validation of a phenomenon. Some phenomena are difficult to reproduce, generally because there are unknown or difficult-to-control conditions. However, what Miles found and reported in 1993 was that, while the amount of heat produced in a series of cold fusion cells was not easily predicted, the cells produced helium proportionally to the heat measured. That was an astonishing result at the time, because helium was not expected to be the main product, and far more helium was being produced than would be expected from the expected ordinary deuterium fusion reaction (which only produces helium in a tiny fraction of the involved fusions). Indeed, as it turned out, the energy produced is quite close to the expectation if deuterium is somehow fused to helium with there being no other products, no gamma rays, no neutrons, no tritium. Basically, no radiation. This work has been amply confirmed, being done with increased accuracy. There is still a lot of work to do, but the science is now clear, that a nuclear reaction is responsible for the Fleischmann-Pons Heat Effect. That is no longer being actively contested by anyone who knows the literature; what we have seen in recent years has only been the internet activity of a few pseudoskeptical cranks, raising preposterous arguments that ignore the basic evidence. Storms' paper, Status of cold fusion (2010) is the basic review recent of the field, published in Naturwissenschaften, a peer-reviewed multidisciplinary journal that's been established since 1913. It's unchallenged, so far. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/** StormsEstatusofcoa.pdfhttp://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEstatusofcoa.pdf However, the reality of cold fusion does not equal practical application. The effect has been extremely difficult to control. You report on recent work with nickel hydride, but that work is *not* massively confirmed, as was the palladium deuteride work of Pons and Fleischmann and others (including Miles). We don't know for sure that nickel hydride even works, though so many people are now working with it, mostly under commercial secrecy, that there probably is *something* there. We don't know what the product is, the ash. (Helium is the ash from palladium deuteride fusion.) Most importantly, we don't know how reliable the nickel hydride reaction is. One of the likely explanations for all the obfuscation and delay from Rossi and Defkalion is that they are having difficulty with reliability and sustainability. How long does one of these cells work? We don't know. While mainstream science was apparently quite happy with this situation and went about spending billions of dollars on “hot” fusion (there are many who claim that cold fusion was systematically marginalized and deprecated by establishment scientists), a few “rogue” researchers continued with cold fusion research and, over the last few years, evidence has piled up that cold fusion may, in fact, be real. It's just not accurate. The evidence for reality was available by a decade ago. It was difficult to get anything published, and that's a major story on its own. It's been covered by a sociologist of science, a book called Undead Science, by Simon. What's been happening recently is the flap about nickel hydride, and
Re: [Vo]:Aliens Favour Romney
Call me an optimist if you will, but I assume that we will be capable of traveling at effectively greater than light speed some day. I understand that current theories (SR) prohibit this, but they also prohibit LENR. Some ideas concerning worm holes, among others, are being kicked around that one day may open an unknown door. One of the amazing things about human thought is that we tend to be incapable of extending our minds beyond science that is currently understood. Remember many years ago when it was suggested that the US patent office should be closed because there was nothing of importance left to invent? We remain trapped within that mode of thinking to an extent even now. I hope that one day we will communicate with alien species and be roughly their equals with respect to intelligence. We will be in big trouble if they think of us in the manner that we look upon lower earth species. There is reason to believe that intelligence of a biological origin has a limit since once a species such as man reaches a certain level they can dominate their home planet. Little is to be gained after that level of intellect has been achieved since the dangers from competitive creatures quickly dissolves. Unfortunately, machines should be capable of virtually unlimited knowledge since they are designed for that very feature and evolve rapidly. It will be troublesome if a Star Trek like Borg group was designed into existence with the desire to cleanse the galaxy of lesser races. It does appear that interstellar trade in materials would be stretching it a lot. IP might always be important to others that inhabit the universe and free trade in non war related concepts would be acceptable. Lets hope that war between species is not carried forward as a normal function, and I can think of no reason for it to be useful once free access and trade is established. It is fun to delve into science fiction subjects, especially when one is about to fall asleep at the keyboard. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Oct 24, 2012 6:09 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Aliens Favour Romney mix...@bigpond.com wrote: There's a nice little SciFi short story about this (sorry, can't remember title or author). The basic theme is that trade is in concepts rather than objects, since these are readily exchanged, and of value to many. Exactly. Concepts, and the templates for replicators. (Replicators are universal production machines that can make anything.) I doubt we will ever be able to communicate with an alien species enough for practical purposes, but if in the distant future people colonize other stars, I can well imagine a stream of data between the other stars and our solar system. It would include things such as: News gossip Scientific research Patents and intellectual property Replicator templates for everything from new machines and recent works of art, to new kinds of food, ready-to-eat meals, and possibly new species or important people. If another Einstein is born on Alpha centauri they may send us a copy of him. Novels, movies Pornography! It is a little difficult to imagine how we might pay for this kind of trade. How could this be a commercial transaction in any sense? Do you wire transfer money to people you can never have physical contact with you? I assume that a spaceship will take decades or centuries to reach even the closest star. What is the point of sending valuable physical objects or currency to someone's great-great grandchild? Would you fax them a check? How would they cash it, with what organization? Who would keep track of the balance, and why? Would you send them a barrel of currency? Why not send them one dollar in a replicator template and tell them to reproduce it. Actually, cash money will soon be rendered useless and ridiculous by replication machines here on earth. Within a few centuries we will be able to make perfect copies of currency, and probably diamonds or even gold coins, if we learn to transmute elements. I have heard that a good computer scanner and printer can already make a counterfeit dollar bill that fools a change machine or a MARTA ticket machine. Anyway, such trade will be useful for stars within ~30 light years. After that, the new technology will be old, and the news will be history. See chapter 10 of Profiles, Space, the Unconquerable Quote: [Interstellar] space can be mapped and crossed and occupied without definable limit; but it can never be conquered. When our race has reached its ultimate achievements, and the stars themselves are scattered no more widely than the seed of Adam, even then we shall still be like ants crawling on the face of the Earth. The ants have covered the world, but have they conquered it -- for what do their countless colonies know of it, or of each other? So it will be with us as
Re: [Vo]:Aliens Favour Romney
I sure hope that biological warfare is outlawed by every species that inhabits the universe. Surely peace can be achieved at some point in our future. Dave -Original Message- From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Oct 24, 2012 11:38 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Aliens Favour Romney In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:09:27 -0400: Hi, [snip] It is a little difficult to imagine how we might pay for this kind of trade. How could this be a commercial transaction in any sense? Obviously the only system that would work is barter. IOW payment in kind. BTW such a system will effectively have to wait at least until FTL communications are achieved. Actual interstellar travel will be rare, and restricted to those that wish to study other worlds at first hand in order to acquire knowledge that is not readily traded. e.g. I can imagine that any given race might be cautious about telegraphing their DNA into the cosmos, lest it be used to create biological weapons (the only sort worth deploying at interstellar distances.) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
