Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread a.ashfield
Craig, You maybe right but I doubt it. I conclude that AI, even before it is truly AI, is a game changer and will lead to the end of our existing economic world. I don't know how long it will take. Probably other solutions like a shorter work week will be tried first and we don't even know

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Chris Zell
In 2012, 30% of the US lived from paycheck to paycheck. Today, it is 40%. The percentage of people on food stamps has never been higher. Participation in labor markets is at a 36 year low. Job retaining usually doesn't accomplish much as many ex-auto workers can tell you. I don't like

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Alain Sepeda
I have a strange idea from current ambiance and connection with indonesia... Basic income could be connected to agrarian reform. Usually agrarian refor don't give subsidies, but simply redistribute assets to small actors, the farmers, who can exploit them. if robots take all our manual jobs,

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Craig Haynie
I don't like redistribution of income but there won't be any alternative once jobs disappear. You don't know that. People may find unique ways to solve their problems. Pretending that things will just muddle along somehow could be dangerous as the US has drifted towards becoming a police

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread James Bowery
The AI Menace, which is an increasingly popular topic (see Elon Musk http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/27/elon-musk-artificial-intelligence-ai-biggest-existential-threat and Stephen Hawking

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread David Roberson
Chris, you paint a gloomy picture. The economy can turn around fairly quickly under the right conditions and the optimists among us still see hope at least in the long term. In the past new industries have come along at a pace that has lead to enormous improvements to the standard of living

[Vo]:Thermal cameras better than thermocouples for averaging temperature

2014-12-10 Thread Blaze Spinnaker
Interesting comment from Bob Greenyer https://disqus.com/home/user/bobgreenyer/: The thermocouples sat in the groves which were hotter than the tops of fins (this can be clearly seen in photos), the K type, being finer, sat further in the grove accentuating this, additionally it was in a hot zone

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Chris Zell
There is hope in the long term but not in the present system. It's obsolete and headed for collapse. Oil is crashing already without any open LENR reality. The most disturbing aspect of this situation is the utter lack of change in political and financial systems. No amount of scandal or

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Lennart Thornros
Yes, James there are problems ahead. However I think we can handle artificial intelligence as well. Not without sacrifice and a time of accommodation paired with fear. You know how automobiles in England a little over 100 years ago had to have a person walking ahead announcing an automobile is

RE: [Vo]:Thermal cameras better than thermocouples for averaging temperature

2014-12-10 Thread Finlay MacNab
Hard to look at with the naked eye? I don't recall anything in the lugano report about the ecat being hard to look at. I am not sure this is correct. An examination of black body radiative power versus temperature shows that below 3000 degrees kelvin the emission from a hot body is diffuse

[Vo]:Fundamental questions re LENR

2014-12-10 Thread Peter Gluck
I have published today this: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/12/the-most-fundamental-question-about-lenr.html plus a short daily info. Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Thermal cameras better than thermocouples for averaging temperature

2014-12-10 Thread Blaze Spinnaker
I dunno, have you ever been around glass blowing? It gets pretty bright For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1xb48Y6EdA I think these are temperatures around 1320c http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glassblowing On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Finlay MacNab finlaymac...@hotmail.com

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Randy Wuller
You are all missing the point. We are transitioning from the economics of scarce resources to unlimited resources. When you apply economic policies designed for the allocation of scarce resources to an economy of unlimited resources you artificially limit the pie. That is what we are doing

Re: [Vo]:Thermal cameras better than thermocouples for averaging temperature

2014-12-10 Thread Bob Higgins
Brightness depends on how much light is in the visible range. What is happening is that as the device gets hotter, a greater percentage of the light falls in the visible range, AND, a greater total amount of radiative energy is being emitted. Both are going on at the same time. It gets bright

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Lennart Thornros
I just agree with you Randy. Better explained than I did:) Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence,

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread James Bowery
Physical reality provides, to first order, a 2 dimensional biosphere of limited surface area. The 3 dimensional solar system provides a first order unlimited pie but to second order, even it is limited. Given the actual behavior of governments and corporations within the biosphere,

Re: [Vo]:Thermal cameras better than thermocouples for averaging temperature

2014-12-10 Thread Blaze Spinnaker
http://blog.phillips-safety.com/glassblowing-lenses/ How about UV radiation? On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: Brightness depends on how much light is in the visible range. What is happening is that as the device gets hotter, a greater percentage

Re: [Vo]:Thermal cameras better than thermocouples for averaging temperature

2014-12-10 Thread David Roberson
All you need to do is to move further away from the radiator to ease the burden upon your eyes. The inverse square law can work wonders. I suspect that he was referring to his particular case with a short viewing distance. Dave -Original Message- From: Finlay MacNab

RE: [Vo]:Thermal cameras better than thermocouples for averaging temperature

2014-12-10 Thread Finlay MacNab
I dunno, have you ever been around glass blowing? It gets pretty bright I think this is a question of surface area. Based on this calculator http://www.spectralcalc.com/blackbody_calculator/blackbody.php , and my limited understanding of radiance, a 1400C (~1700K) black body radiator will

RE: [Vo]:Thermal cameras better than thermocouples for averaging temperature

2014-12-10 Thread Finlay MacNab
And I forgot, much of the brightness of glass is from the sodium emission line. Glassblowing glasses filter the sodium emission line (brilliant yellow light). Much of the brightness of molten glass comes from light from sodium if i recall correctly. In fact, when you put on sodium line

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Randy Wuller
Mr. Bowery, You don’t even know me. And I seriously doubt you have done any more than I have on the Solar Centric issue. The anti-immigration and anti-government sentiments are idiotic and only when those silly notions are slowly dumped in the trash can of obsolete ideas will we be able to

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Lennart Thornros
James, the solar system has to be recognized for many reasons and I have heard nobody trying to exclude that. We can agree that the resources are somewhat limited today. However, that is merely a question of that we have failed to share to open up for the less fortunate to take part of the

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread James Bowery
Actually, I know that you were no where to be found when I was testifying before Congress on the Launch Services Purchase Act of 1990 that was the seminal move toward launch service privatization and I also know that the economic studies that try to demonstrate that immigration is not resulting in

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Jed Rothwell
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Physical reality provides, to first order, a 2 dimensional biosphere of limited surface area. The 3 dimensional solar system provides a first order unlimited pie but to second order, even it is limited. Given the actual behavior of governments and

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread James Bowery
On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: James, the solar system has to be recognized for many reasons and I have heard nobody trying to exclude that. You misunderstand what I mean by prerequisite. When there is a frontier to be settled, the political

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread John Berry
There is enough for everyone, but there is not YET enough for everyone to do nothing and have plenty. And some things are getting worse not better, GM crops are killing the soil, and pollution is making some even otherwise remote locations unable to produce food. There are water shortages

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Randy Wuller
Mr. Bowery: The unconditional basic income is not an anti-government measure, it is in fact absolutely necessary for government to institute it. It is however an anti-bureaucracy measure which I applaud. The problem is there is a difference between being anti-government and

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Jed Rothwell
Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: If I had a guaranteed income I would have no interest spending all my free time day sitting on my fat ass doing nothing more than watching football or porn on my monitor. Nor would I be interested in consuming booze or sampling

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Jed Rothwell
John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: There is enough for everyone, but there is not YET enough for everyone to do nothing and have plenty. Yes, but there will be soon. In a few generations there will be. We are in a transition. We need to gradually reinvent society and economics to

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread John Berry
There are huge advantages of giving people enough to live on, and enough to better themselves. I don't know what can be done about the unpleasant jobs not enough will want to do, maybe a small increase in pay could be enough. Anyway Burger joints and cleaning can increasingly be automated today,

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread John Berry
The reason I suggested crypto, likely much as the guy in the video did is because of the ability to do this without the government being onboard. Of course I suppose it would still be possible to do this with a cash currency, but that would be ignoring the obvious advantages that exist with

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Jed Rothwell
John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: There are huge advantages of giving people enough to live on, and enough to better themselves. I don't know what can be done about the unpleasant jobs not enough will want to do, maybe a small increase in pay could be enough. A small increase would

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Jed Rothwell
John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: The reason I suggested crypto, likely much as the guy in the video did is because of the ability to do this without the government being onboard. I do not think this could be done without the government and industry being on board. Also both political

[Vo]:Associative Vector Properties.

2014-12-10 Thread Harvey Norris
Using the Atrix Drawing program I am able to quickly revise vector combinations as the geometrical placement of the joined line gives an answer in properties icon that corresponds to what the voltage meter should read at that junction.  Apparently a discrepancy of the total voltage made by meter

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread a.ashfield
Jed, I couldn't agree with you more. LENR will provide the means for universal wealth if we are not too politically stupid to blow it. The economic/political change will prove harder than full automation I suspect. Too many greedy cooks. Any idea why my posts won't stay properly in line but

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread John Berry
Adrian, the bottom of what? This will depend on your email client surely, and you have not mentioned what client you are using. On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 12:48 PM, a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote: Jed, I couldn't agree with you more. LENR will provide the means for universal wealth if

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread a.ashfield
John Berry, As you can see, my comment has again migrated to the bottom of the list of comments. I'm using Thunderbird. Nothing special. I copy and paste the subject from the comment to which I'm replying. Adrian Ashfield

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson
Jed, You suggested our country should pay our citizens somewhere in the neighborhood $10,000. The idea would be that the amount, being modest would only be enough to pay for the bare necessities - but not enough to actually live on unless groups got together and roomed together in a

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread David Roberson
Did you stop to make an estimate of the amount of money being distributed if this scheme is implemented? A quick figure is 300,000,000 x 15,000 = 4.5 trillion bucks! The entire GDP of the US in 2014 was 17.4 trillion dollars. It appears that a tax rate of about 40% of the GDP would be

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread James Bowery
The proposal http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/-in-our-hands_105549266790.pdf from the conservative thinktank American Enterprise Institute's scholar Charles Murray is worded as follows: Henceforth, federal, state, and local governments shall make no law nor establish any program that

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread David Roberson
Those changes would make it much more reasonable. Do you recall how much the total estimate would be? How would that compare to the amount that is currently distributed by government welfare, health, and etc. Would the distribution replace money now paid out in Social Security, as veteran

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-10 Thread Eric Walker
On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 9:08 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I do not see the need for panic during this period. It will not likely require rapid change to our current system to prevent major disruptions to our way of life. This is the face of technological change: