RE: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway
Dave— I think the reaction time for the mechanism you suggest if too long to explain the results of the “run-away” phenomena. It seems to me that an entire coherent system must change in a very short instant with the appearance of phonic energy (high orbital valence electron spin) evenly spread through the entire coherent system. I would like to believe that angular momentum of the system is conserved. It may be that a strong magnetic is the coupling force that assures that the angular momentum is conserved in the production of appropriate EM radiation carrying angular momentum away from the remaining coherent system before disintegration occurs. Bob Cook From: David Roberson Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 6:01 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway Brian, The Manelas device is an interesting subject that I would like to explore further. Do you know whether or not the project is actively being pursued at this time? Of course I am skeptical of any free lunches, but open to possibilities. Dave -Original Message- From: Brian Ahern To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2017 6:40 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway David, I like your admission that we are brainstorming. I had several mentors in the last 20 years. One of them was Henry Kolm, Wayland MA. He was a co-founder of the National Magnet Lab at MIT. He is deceased, but in 2009 he believed that at one time he was as knowledgerog ross noable on magnetism as any person in the world. He confided to me in 2010 that Magnetism was largely not understood. There was so very much unknown. He was in awe of the subject. I had the good fortune to learn about the source of ferromagnetism in materials and how they are related to specific electron orbital topologies. This is not known or discussed anywhere. I have found that these topologies are affected by phonons as well as photons. That is why I am fascinated by LENR. The Manelas energy output with ferromagnetic ferrite cores is also fascinating and not understood by anyone yet. From: David Roberson Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 6:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway Bob, When you mention the attenuation coefficient for waves I think it should be pointed out that the original energy of the phonon is preserved. By this I mean that the sonic energy is converted into some other form such as heat which I think of as just uncoordinated sound waves that are randomly distributed. I also assume that the original sonic waveform translating throughout the material undergoes reflections at the edges, etc. until it becomes unrecognizable as anything other than overall random heating. It seems logical that an individual sonic disturbance originating at some point within the NAE would propagate into three dimensions and its initial energy would spread out into an ever wider wave until reflections hide its identity. Of course some might argue that each phonon contains a fixed amount to energy that propagates away from its point of origin like a particle. If the particle model is used I believe that the attenuation coefficient would not fit. Otherwise a fractional phonon would exist instead of a fixed energy particle. If we consider a coherent pulse of phonons propagating as a coordinated group along one axis like a plane wave then some interesting characteristics originate. Perhaps the instantaneous peak pressure causes new LENR reactions to occur which then generate additional coherent phonons that add to the original traveling wave. Think of how a laser pulse builds up in magnitude as it travels through the lasing material. After enough LENR reactions add together we might have enough sonic energy to crater the edge of the reactive metal matrix. I am thinking of how a shaped charge can penetrate a thick metal shield causing it to splinter on the far side. If behavior of the type I am suggesting actually happens then the bulk of the material as well as its physical shape and internal structure would be important considerations. The bulk is important because the sonic wave gains energy as it passes through, similar to lasing. The physical structure comes into play as the waves undergo multiple reflections at the edges. This is related to the gross mechanical resonances of the material. The internal structure such as dislocations would likely cause the traveling waveform to disperse to some degree leading to disruption of the pressure wave. There is some support for a sonic related LENR effect as seen in one reportedly successful device that uses a large magnetic shock generated by a carefully shaped waveform. Please realize that what I am discussing is more of a brain storming exercise intended to generate additional thoughts and comments from other vortex-l contributors. Dave
RE: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway
Axil— A 20 nanometer particle would include a million or more atoms, plenty to create a lattice that could vibrate with addition of heat. In other words the atoms do not stay in one position but move rhythmically about a point in the lattice. The electronic bonding within the crystal lattice keeps the positive nuclei from separating to much, maintaining a solid phase. With too much amplitude of the vibration the solid becomes a liquid with random motion of the positive nuclei and, with significant position changes and a spectrum of kinetic energies. If the initial energy conversion to phonic energy from the parent nuclear configurations is sufficient, the solid may vaporize promptly with a very hot spectrum of kinetic energy positive particles –a hot gas--that result in the volcanic like eruptions seen in the Pd-D system LENR. The LENR that would cause such an eruption is not a low energy reaction because the electronic structure making up the lattice bonds are broken on a large scale in a very short time frame. I envision that the spin orbital energy of many of the bonding electrons is increased in the instant of the reaction, causing the lattice structure to come apart—vaporize—as indicated in the paragraph above. Bob Cook Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Axil Axil Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 1:35 PM To: vortex-l Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway LENR has been found to exist under laser irradiation of gold nanoparticles in a colloidal suspension of thorium salts. The nanoparticles are far to small to support any lattice vibration, but they can support subwavelength EMF. Initiation of nuclear reactions under laser irradiation of Au nanoparticles in the presence of Thorium aqua-ions A.V. Simakin and G.A. Shafeev https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0906/0906.4268.pdf "The resulting average size of Au NPs as determined by Transmission Electron Microscopy lies between 10 and 20 nm." On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Jones Beene wrote: In nuclear fission, the active particle which propagates the reaction is of course the neutron. The identity crisis that we have dealt with in LENR from the start becomes evident when we try to single out the active particle or pseudo-particle, which is the most basic agent that propagates and continues the reaction (in a situation such as "heat-after-death" or the thermal runaway). If nuclear fusion was indeed the source of energy of a runaway or meltdown reaction (and close to a dozen have been reported) then we should be able to identify an anomalous agent of some kind, but it is not gamma radiation or neutrons, so we look for something completely new. Beta particles (fast electrons) and alpha particle can also be ruled out due to proportionate lack of secondary radiation (bremsstrahlung). Yes, there appears to be a tiny amount of all, or any, of the above in LENR at various times, but not coming close to accounting for the emergent thermal gain of a runaway. This is gain far above chemical and far below nuclear, which can cause a large amount of stainless steel to melt, as happened at Thermacore but with no residual radiation. Thus the choices for the active agent in LENR are narrowed primarily to the phonon, for those who follow some version of the Hagelstein theory, or to EUV photons for those who follow Mills, or both. Holmlid has not had a runaway so we can possibly eliminate the more exotic candidates. Obviously, one parameter which distinguishes the runaway reaction is strong Infrared light, also seen in Parkhomov "glow tube" and replications. This brings up the field of optomechanics and more specifically "cavity optomechanics" which studies the interaction between light and mechanical movement. This also brings up the suggestion that with resonance and coherence, both the photon and phonon can be merged together into a hybrid or pseudo-particle. The "SPP" or surface plasmon polariton has been a candidate for LENR active modality - which has been talked about the most, but the SPP does NOT fit the circumstances precisely. Actually it is a poor fit. The plasmon, a quantum of plasma oscillation, does not really fit in the circumstance of a condensed lattice reaction since there is technically no plasma. The polariton does model strong coupling of electromagnetic waves with an electric dipole, which can be present in the runaway but "surface" does not model the a lattice effect. Thus SPP is one out of three accuracy. Moreover, phonons need to be included since mechanical vibration is more fundamental to LENR than optics. Perhaps LENR needs its own specific pseudo-particle, which vaguely resembles the SPP but only when combined with the phonon and eliminating the "surface" feature. Can we label this pseudo-particle as the PPP (phonon-plasmon-polariton) instead of SPP? As fate would have it, something like this PPP pseudo-particle has been
RE: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway
Jones – Good questions and fair to midland conclusions. What was the nature of the reactants in each of the run-away reactions? --Pd-D, Ni-H, Li involved, Ti involved etc? Was the size of the likely coherent system in the various cases limited? Were sharply peaking resonance conditions likely? If so, what type of resonances? Were significant applied magnetic fields present? If so, how big? Did the accidents initiate under some upper bound temperature or pressure associated with phonic resonances? If so, what temperatures / pressures? One of Peter H’s early LENR theories addresses the coupling associated with phonic resonances I believe-- ICCF-2or 3. Your focus on phonons—lattice vibrations—may relate to a positive temperature coefficient reflecting an increased probability of a temperature induced resonant condition in an increasing population of coherent systems. Thus, limiting the size of the possible coherent systems in the fuel of the reactor may limit the size of the creation of energetic phonons (heat) and the establishment of resonant conditions in nearby coherent systems. Small grains in metals would act to limit the size of adjacent coherent systems and the amount of energy transformed during any single reaction. Bob Cook Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Jones Beene Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 9:06 AM To: Vortex List Subject: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway In nuclear fission, the active particle which propagates the reaction is of course the neutron. The identity crisis that we have dealt with in LENR from the start becomes evident when we try to single out the active particle or pseudo-particle, which is the most basic agent that propagates and continues the reaction (in a situation such as "heat-after-death" or the thermal runaway). If nuclear fusion was indeed the source of energy of a runaway or meltdown reaction (and close to a dozen have been reported) then we should be able to identify an anomalous agent of some kind, but it is not gamma radiation or neutrons, so we look for something completely new. Beta particles (fast electrons) and alpha particle can also be ruled out due to proportionate lack of secondary radiation (bremsstrahlung). Yes, there appears to be a tiny amount of all, or any, of the above in LENR at various times, but not coming close to accounting for the emergent thermal gain of a runaway. This is gain far above chemical and far below nuclear, which can cause a large amount of stainless steel to melt, as happened at Thermacore but with no residual radiation. Thus the choices for the active agent in LENR are narrowed primarily to the phonon, for those who follow some version of the Hagelstein theory, or to EUV photons for those who follow Mills, or both. Holmlid has not had a runaway so we can possibly eliminate the more exotic candidates. Obviously, one parameter which distinguishes the runaway reaction is strong Infrared light, also seen in Parkhomov "glow tube" and replications. This brings up the field of optomechanics and more specifically "cavity optomechanics" which studies the interaction between light and mechanical movement. This also brings up the suggestion that with resonance and coherence, both the photon and phonon can be merged together into a hybrid or pseudo-particle. The "SPP" or surface plasmon polariton has been a candidate for LENR active modality - which has been talked about the most, but the SPP does NOT fit the circumstances precisely. Actually it is a poor fit. The plasmon, a quantum of plasma oscillation, does not really fit in the circumstance of a condensed lattice reaction since there is technically no plasma. The polariton does model strong coupling of electromagnetic waves with an electric dipole, which can be present in the runaway but "surface" does not model the a lattice effect. Thus SPP is one out of three accuracy. Moreover, phonons need to be included since mechanical vibration is more fundamental to LENR than optics. Perhaps LENR needs its own specific pseudo-particle, which vaguely resembles the SPP but only when combined with the phonon and eliminating the "surface" feature. Can we label this pseudo-particle as the PPP (phonon-plasmon-polariton) instead of SPP? As fate would have it, something like this PPP pseudo-particle has been proposed, if not witnessed by generation of single phonons at gigahertz frequencies in optoelectronics, where the single phonon has been triggered by single photons in the near infrared. See: http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.234301 It would be intriguing to imagine that a pseudo-particle found in an unrelated field has broader applicability and can function as the active mediator in LENR ... either real or as metaphor. As a real particle, we can probably model "dense hydrogen" as having all the properties of a real PPP - functioning as a hybrid of all
Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway
Brian, The Manelas device is an interesting subject that I would like to explore further. Do you know whether or not the project is actively being pursued at this time? Of course I am skeptical of any free lunches, but open to possibilities. Dave -Original Message- From: Brian Ahern To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2017 6:40 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway David, I like your admission that we are brainstorming. I had several mentors in the last 20 years. One of them was Henry Kolm, Wayland MA. He was a co-founder of the National Magnet Lab at MIT. He is deceased, but in 2009 he believed that at one time he was as knowledgerog ross noable on magnetism as any person in the world. He confided to me in 2010 that Magnetism was largely not understood. There was so very much unknown. He was in awe of the subject. I had the good fortune to learn about the source of ferromagnetism in materials and how they are related to specific electron orbital topologies. This is not known or discussed anywhere. I have found that these topologies are affected by phonons as well as photons. That is why I am fascinated by LENR. The Manelas energy output with ferromagnetic ferrite cores is also fascinating and not understood by anyone yet. From: David Roberson Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 6:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway Bob, When you mention the attenuation coefficient for waves I think it should be pointed out that the original energy of the phonon is preserved. By this I mean that the sonic energy is converted into some other form such as heat which I think of as just uncoordinated sound waves that are randomly distributed. I also assume that the original sonic waveform translating throughout the material undergoes reflections at the edges, etc. until it becomes unrecognizable as anything other than overall random heating. It seems logical that an individual sonic disturbance originating at some point within the NAE would propagate into three dimensions and its initial energy would spread out into an ever wider wave until reflections hide its identity. Of course some might argue that each phonon contains a fixed amount to energy that propagates away from its point of origin like a particle. If the particle model is used I believe that the attenuation coefficient would not fit. Otherwise a fractional phonon would exist instead of a fixed energy particle. If we consider a coherent pulse of phonons propagating as a coordinated group along one axis like a plane wave then some interesting characteristics originate. Perhaps the instantaneous peak pressure causes new LENR reactions to occur which then generate additional coherent phonons that add to the original traveling wave. Think of how a laser pulse builds up in magnitude as it travels through the lasing material. After enough LENR reactions add together we might have enough sonic energy to crater the edge of the reactive metal matrix. I am thinking of how a shaped charge can penetrate a thick metal shield causing it to splinter on the far side. If behavior of the type I am suggesting actually happens then the bulk of the material as well as its physical shape and internal structure would be important considerations. The bulk is important because the sonic wave gains energy as it passes through, similar to lasing. The physical structure comes into play as the waves undergo multiple reflections at the edges. This is related to the gross mechanical resonances of the material. The internal structure such as dislocations would likely cause the traveling waveform to disperse to some degree leading to disruption of the pressure wave. There is some support for a sonic related LENR effect as seen in one reportedly successful device that uses a large magnetic shock generated by a carefully shaped waveform. Please realize that what I am discussing is more of a brain storming exercise intended to generate additional thoughts and comments from other vortex-l contributors. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2017 3:37 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway The problem with the phonon is that its wavelength is extremely short. The attenuation coefficient for waves, in general, is typically quoted in dB/wavelength; and nature abhors a too small value for such a number. Hence you only have to propagate a limited number of wavelengths and the energy in the wave dissipates. Also, the greatest amount of energy is deposited closest to where the wave originated. If phonons were being generated as the LENR energy output, the energy would dissipate close to where the phonons were being created. If the NAE was of limited size, how could the phonons provide any significant heat to the whole reactor witho
Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway
Regarding: "The Manelas energy output with ferromagnetic ferrite cores is also fascinating and not understood by anyone yet." The Barium ferrite magnet is similar to the SmCo5 magnet in that it is a hexaferrite based crystal structure based on the hexagon. This type of magnet produces an anisotropic magnetic field or a monopole magnetic field. The posit of this post is that anisotropic magnets produce the LENR reaction because the unbalanced field lines being a monopole field produces magnetic field lines that tend to be twisted thus producing excitation in the nucleons via CP symmetry breaking and destruction of the superconductivity in the nucleus. Their Color force having been excited by twisting magnetic field lines, the proton and neutron will decay under the influence of the weak force. The final product of proton decay in a CP symmetry breaking environment is electons. These monopole field lines allow the magnetic field lines to be twisted thus producing excitation in the nucleons. Magnetic dipole fields do not make twisting field lines easy. Dipole magnetic field lines are continuous and unbroken, forming closed loops. Magnetic field lines are defined to begin on the north pole of a magnet and terminate on the south pole. Dipole magnetic field lines don't have any open ends to twist but monopole flux lines can twist and rotate. As a set up for this post here is info About Neodymium Magnets(NIB) Overview of the operating properties of Neodymium magnets. Neodymium magnets (also known as rare earth, Neo, NIB or NdFeB magnets) were invented in 1982 and are the strongest type of magnets. There are two basic ways that NIB magnets are made: sintered and bonded. Sintered NIB magnets have the highest strength but are limited to relatively simple geometries and can be brittle. They are made by pressure forming the raw materials into blocks, which then go through a complex heating process. The block is then cut to shape and coated to prevent corrosion. Sintered magnets are typically anisotropic, which means they have a preference for the direction of their magnetic field. Rare earths align the spin of the magnetic metal in a preferred direction or "grain" Magnetizing a magnet against the “grain” will reduce the strength of the magnet by up to 50%. So commercially available magnets are always magnetized in the preferred direction of magnetization. Bonded NIB magnets are typically about half as strong as sintered magnets but are less expensive and can be made into almost any size and shape. Raw materials are mixed with epoxy as a binder, pressed into a die cavity and heat cured. Bonded magnets are isotropic, which means they don’t have a “grain” or a natural preference for the direction of their magnetic field. For example, Dennis Cravens Golden balls infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/NIWeekCravens.pdf "To assure a strong magnetic field in the active material the spheres contain a ground samarium cobalt (Sm2Co7) magnet, which stays magnetized at higher temperatures. This was powdered and the powder is mostly random but it should provide a strong magnetic field within the sample. "The Sm2Co7 magnet produces the required anisotropic magnetic field lines(monopole like magnetic field). Deuterium is used as the gas envelope Here is a visualization that demonstrates that rare earth magnets produce vortex twisting of their magnetic field lines whereas dipole magnets do not produce magnetic vortex spinning field lines. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIlijUSJMmg On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Brian Ahern wrote: > David, I like your admission that we are brainstorming. I had several > mentors in the last 20 years. One of them was Henry Kolm, Wayland MA. He > was a co-founder of the National Magnet Lab at MIT. He is deceased, but in > 2009 he believed that at one time he was as knowledgerog > > ross > > noable on magnetism as any person in the world. > > > He confided to me in 2010 that Magnetism was largely not understood. There > was so very much unknown. He was in awe of the subject. > > > I had the good fortune to learn about the source of ferromagnetism in > materials and how they are related to specific electron orbital topologies. > This is not known or discussed anywhere. > > > I have found that these topologies are affected by phonons as well as > photons. That is why I am fascinated by LENR. The Manelas energy output > with ferromagnetic ferrite cores is also fascinating and not understood by > anyone yet. > > > -- > *From:* David Roberson > *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2017 6:12 PM > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway > > Bob, > > When you mention the attenuation coefficient for waves I think it should > be pointed out that the original energy of the phonon is preserved. By > this I mean that the sonic energy is converted into some other form such as > heat which I think of as just uncoordinated
Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway
David, I like your admission that we are brainstorming. I had several mentors in the last 20 years. One of them was Henry Kolm, Wayland MA. He was a co-founder of the National Magnet Lab at MIT. He is deceased, but in 2009 he believed that at one time he was as knowledgerog ross noable on magnetism as any person in the world. He confided to me in 2010 that Magnetism was largely not understood. There was so very much unknown. He was in awe of the subject. I had the good fortune to learn about the source of ferromagnetism in materials and how they are related to specific electron orbital topologies. This is not known or discussed anywhere. I have found that these topologies are affected by phonons as well as photons. That is why I am fascinated by LENR. The Manelas energy output with ferromagnetic ferrite cores is also fascinating and not understood by anyone yet. From: David Roberson Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 6:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway Bob, When you mention the attenuation coefficient for waves I think it should be pointed out that the original energy of the phonon is preserved. By this I mean that the sonic energy is converted into some other form such as heat which I think of as just uncoordinated sound waves that are randomly distributed. I also assume that the original sonic waveform translating throughout the material undergoes reflections at the edges, etc. until it becomes unrecognizable as anything other than overall random heating. It seems logical that an individual sonic disturbance originating at some point within the NAE would propagate into three dimensions and its initial energy would spread out into an ever wider wave until reflections hide its identity. Of course some might argue that each phonon contains a fixed amount to energy that propagates away from its point of origin like a particle. If the particle model is used I believe that the attenuation coefficient would not fit. Otherwise a fractional phonon would exist instead of a fixed energy particle. If we consider a coherent pulse of phonons propagating as a coordinated group along one axis like a plane wave then some interesting characteristics originate. Perhaps the instantaneous peak pressure causes new LENR reactions to occur which then generate additional coherent phonons that add to the original traveling wave. Think of how a laser pulse builds up in magnitude as it travels through the lasing material. After enough LENR reactions add together we might have enough sonic energy to crater the edge of the reactive metal matrix. I am thinking of how a shaped charge can penetrate a thick metal shield causing it to splinter on the far side. If behavior of the type I am suggesting actually happens then the bulk of the material as well as its physical shape and internal structure would be important considerations. The bulk is important because the sonic wave gains energy as it passes through, similar to lasing. The physical structure comes into play as the waves undergo multiple reflections at the edges. This is related to the gross mechanical resonances of the material. The internal structure such as dislocations would likely cause the traveling waveform to disperse to some degree leading to disruption of the pressure wave. There is some support for a sonic related LENR effect as seen in one reportedly successful device that uses a large magnetic shock generated by a carefully shaped waveform. Please realize that what I am discussing is more of a brain storming exercise intended to generate additional thoughts and comments from other vortex-l contributors. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2017 3:37 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway The problem with the phonon is that its wavelength is extremely short. The attenuation coefficient for waves, in general, is typically quoted in dB/wavelength; and nature abhors a too small value for such a number. Hence you only have to propagate a limited number of wavelengths and the energy in the wave dissipates. Also, the greatest amount of energy is deposited closest to where the wave originated. If phonons were being generated as the LENR energy output, the energy would dissipate close to where the phonons were being created. If the NAE was of limited size, how could the phonons provide any significant heat to the whole reactor without the NAE being so hot it would long before evaporate? Peter Hagelstein's answer to this is that there is no NAE - the reaction is completely distributed to start with. Because the hypothetical LENR phonons would be generated in a distributed fashion, the heat becomes distributed. Thus, if you are presuming the heat carrier is phonon, then you are simultaneously rejecting the notion of
Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway
Bob, When you mention the attenuation coefficient for waves I think it should be pointed out that the original energy of the phonon is preserved. By this I mean that the sonic energy is converted into some other form such as heat which I think of as just uncoordinated sound waves that are randomly distributed. I also assume that the original sonic waveform translating throughout the material undergoes reflections at the edges, etc. until it becomes unrecognizable as anything other than overall random heating. It seems logical that an individual sonic disturbance originating at some point within the NAE would propagate into three dimensions and its initial energy would spread out into an ever wider wave until reflections hide its identity. Of course some might argue that each phonon contains a fixed amount to energy that propagates away from its point of origin like a particle. If the particle model is used I believe that the attenuation coefficient would not fit. Otherwise a fractional phonon would exist instead of a fixed energy particle. If we consider a coherent pulse of phonons propagating as a coordinated group along one axis like a plane wave then some interesting characteristics originate. Perhaps the instantaneous peak pressure causes new LENR reactions to occur which then generate additional coherent phonons that add to the original traveling wave. Think of how a laser pulse builds up in magnitude as it travels through the lasing material. After enough LENR reactions add together we might have enough sonic energy to crater the edge of the reactive metal matrix. I am thinking of how a shaped charge can penetrate a thick metal shield causing it to splinter on the far side. If behavior of the type I am suggesting actually happens then the bulk of the material as well as its physical shape and internal structure would be important considerations. The bulk is important because the sonic wave gains energy as it passes through, similar to lasing. The physical structure comes into play as the waves undergo multiple reflections at the edges. This is related to the gross mechanical resonances of the material. The internal structure such as dislocations would likely cause the traveling waveform to disperse to some degree leading to disruption of the pressure wave. There is some support for a sonic related LENR effect as seen in one reportedly successful device that uses a large magnetic shock generated by a carefully shaped waveform. Please realize that what I am discussing is more of a brain storming exercise intended to generate additional thoughts and comments from other vortex-l contributors. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2017 3:37 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway The problem with the phonon is that its wavelength is extremely short. The attenuation coefficient for waves, in general, is typically quoted in dB/wavelength; and nature abhors a too small value for such a number. Hence you only have to propagate a limited number of wavelengths and the energy in the wave dissipates. Also, the greatest amount of energy is deposited closest to where the wave originated. If phonons were being generated as the LENR energy output, the energy would dissipate close to where the phonons were being created. If the NAE was of limited size, how could the phonons provide any significant heat to the whole reactor without the NAE being so hot it would long before evaporate? Peter Hagelstein's answer to this is that there is no NAE - the reaction is completely distributed to start with. Because the hypothetical LENR phonons would be generated in a distributed fashion, the heat becomes distributed. Thus, if you are presuming the heat carrier is phonon, then you are simultaneously rejecting the notion of the pointillistic NAEs. Sometimes the tiny volcano eruption is seen in the surface of a LENR producing host metal, where it appears that evaporation has occurred. Yet, the heat energy contribution from one such micro-eruption is small, and for the LENR energies being observed, the surface would have to be truly covered with these features afterwards - they would appear to be an obvious smoking gun (a pun). With the rarity of these observed micro-eruptions, one would have to believe that if LENR occurs in small point-like NAEs, the heat produced must be deferred to regions somewhat remote from the source. The micro-eruptions tend to support the idea of a small NAE, but the fact that the surface doesn't become completely covered with micro-eruptions suggests a heat carrier capable of delivering the heat to the greater apparatus. On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Jones Beene wrote: In nuclear fission, the active particle which propagates the reaction is of course the neutron. The identity crisis that we have dealt with in LENR from the sta
Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway
LENR has been found to exist under laser irradiation of gold nanoparticles in a colloidal suspension of thorium salts. The nanoparticles are far to small to support any lattice vibration, but they can support subwavelength EMF. Initiation of nuclear reactions under laser irradiation of Au nanoparticles in the presence of Thorium aqua-ions A.V. Simakin and G.A. Shafeev https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0906/0906.4268.pdf "The resulting average size of Au NPs as determined by Transmission Electron Microscopy lies between 10 and 20 nm." On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > In nuclear fission, the active particle which propagates the reaction is > of course the neutron. The identity crisis that we have dealt with in LENR > from the start becomes evident when we try to single out the active > particle or pseudo-particle, which is the most basic agent that propagates > and continues the reaction (in a situation such as "heat-after-death" or > the thermal runaway). > > If nuclear fusion was indeed the source of energy of a runaway or meltdown > reaction (and close to a dozen have been reported) then we should be able > to identify an anomalous agent of some kind, but it is not gamma radiation > or neutrons, so we look for something completely new. Beta particles (fast > electrons) and alpha particle can also be ruled out due to proportionate > lack of secondary radiation (bremsstrahlung). Yes, there appears to be a > tiny amount of all, or any, of the above in LENR at various times, but not > coming close to accounting for the emergent thermal gain of a runaway. This > is gain far above chemical and far below nuclear, which can cause a large > amount of stainless steel to melt, as happened at Thermacore but with no > residual radiation. > > Thus the choices for the active agent in LENR are narrowed primarily to > the phonon, for those who follow some version of the Hagelstein theory, or > to EUV photons for those who follow Mills, or both. Holmlid has not had a > runaway so we can possibly eliminate the more exotic candidates. Obviously, > one parameter which distinguishes the runaway reaction is strong Infrared > light, also seen in Parkhomov "glow tube" and replications. > > This brings up the field of optomechanics and more specifically "cavity > optomechanics" which studies the interaction between light and mechanical > movement. This also brings up the suggestion that with resonance and > coherence, both the photon and phonon can be merged together into a hybrid > or pseudo-particle. The "SPP" or surface plasmon polariton has been a > candidate for LENR active modality - which has been talked about the most, > but the SPP does NOT fit the circumstances precisely. Actually it is a poor > fit. > > The plasmon, a quantum of plasma oscillation, does not really fit in the > circumstance of a condensed lattice reaction since there is technically no > plasma. The polariton does model strong coupling of electromagnetic waves > with an electric dipole, which can be present in the runaway but "surface" > does not model the a lattice effect. Thus SPP is one out of three accuracy. > > Moreover, phonons need to be included since mechanical vibration is more > fundamental to LENR than optics. Perhaps LENR needs its own specific > pseudo-particle, which vaguely resembles the SPP but only when combined > with the phonon and eliminating the "surface" feature. > > Can we label this pseudo-particle as the PPP (phonon-plasmon-polariton) > instead of SPP? > > As fate would have it, something like this PPP pseudo-particle has been > proposed, if not witnessed by generation of single phonons at gigahertz > frequencies in optoelectronics, where the single phonon has been triggered > by single photons in the near infrared. See: > > http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.234301 > > It would be intriguing to imagine that a pseudo-particle found in an > unrelated field has broader applicability and can function as the active > mediator in LENR ... either real or as metaphor. > > As a real particle, we can probably model "dense hydrogen" as having all > the properties of a real PPP - functioning as a hybrid of all three > constituents: phonon, plasmon and polariton, reduced to the quantized state. > > >
Re: [Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway
The problem with the phonon is that its wavelength is extremely short. The attenuation coefficient for waves, in general, is typically quoted in dB/wavelength; and nature abhors a too small value for such a number. Hence you only have to propagate a limited number of wavelengths and the energy in the wave dissipates. Also, the greatest amount of energy is deposited closest to where the wave originated. If phonons were being generated as the LENR energy output, the energy would dissipate close to where the phonons were being created. If the NAE was of limited size, how could the phonons provide any significant heat to the whole reactor without the NAE being so hot it would long before evaporate? Peter Hagelstein's answer to this is that there is no NAE - the reaction is completely distributed to start with. Because the hypothetical LENR phonons would be generated in a distributed fashion, the heat becomes distributed. Thus, if you are presuming the heat carrier is phonon, then you are simultaneously rejecting the notion of the pointillistic NAEs. Sometimes the tiny volcano eruption is seen in the surface of a LENR producing host metal, where it appears that evaporation has occurred. Yet, the heat energy contribution from one such micro-eruption is small, and for the LENR energies being observed, the surface would have to be truly covered with these features afterwards - they would appear to be an obvious smoking gun (a pun). With the rarity of these observed micro-eruptions, one would have to believe that if LENR occurs in small point-like NAEs, the heat produced must be deferred to regions somewhat remote from the source. The micro-eruptions tend to support the idea of a small NAE, but the fact that the surface doesn't become completely covered with micro-eruptions suggests a heat carrier capable of delivering the heat to the greater apparatus. On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > In nuclear fission, the active particle which propagates the reaction is > of course the neutron. The identity crisis that we have dealt with in LENR > from the start becomes evident when we try to single out the active > particle or pseudo-particle, which is the most basic agent that propagates > and continues the reaction (in a situation such as "heat-after-death" or > the thermal runaway). > > If nuclear fusion was indeed the source of energy of a runaway or meltdown > reaction (and close to a dozen have been reported) then we should be able > to identify an anomalous agent of some kind, but it is not gamma radiation > or neutrons, so we look for something completely new. Beta particles (fast > electrons) and alpha particle can also be ruled out due to proportionate > lack of secondary radiation (bremsstrahlung). Yes, there appears to be a > tiny amount of all, or any, of the above in LENR at various times, but not > coming close to accounting for the emergent thermal gain of a runaway. This > is gain far above chemical and far below nuclear, which can cause a large > amount of stainless steel to melt, as happened at Thermacore but with no > residual radiation. > > Thus the choices for the active agent in LENR are narrowed primarily to > the phonon, for those who follow some version of the Hagelstein theory, or > to EUV photons for those who follow Mills, or both. Holmlid has not had a > runaway so we can possibly eliminate the more exotic candidates. Obviously, > one parameter which distinguishes the runaway reaction is strong Infrared > light, also seen in Parkhomov "glow tube" and replications. > > This brings up the field of optomechanics and more specifically "cavity > optomechanics" which studies the interaction between light and mechanical > movement. This also brings up the suggestion that with resonance and > coherence, both the photon and phonon can be merged together into a hybrid > or pseudo-particle. The "SPP" or surface plasmon polariton has been a > candidate for LENR active modality - which has been talked about the most, > but the SPP does NOT fit the circumstances precisely. Actually it is a poor > fit. > > The plasmon, a quantum of plasma oscillation, does not really fit in the > circumstance of a condensed lattice reaction since there is technically no > plasma. The polariton does model strong coupling of electromagnetic waves > with an electric dipole, which can be present in the runaway but "surface" > does not model the a lattice effect. Thus SPP is one out of three accuracy. > > Moreover, phonons need to be included since mechanical vibration is more > fundamental to LENR than optics. Perhaps LENR needs its own specific > pseudo-particle, which vaguely resembles the SPP but only when combined > with the phonon and eliminating the "surface" feature. > > Can we label this pseudo-particle as the PPP (phonon-plasmon-polariton) > instead of SPP? > > As fate would have it, something like this PPP pseudo-particle has been > proposed, if not witnessed by generation of single phonon
[Vo]:LENR+ technology- anthropomorphized?
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2017/02/feb-09-2017-lenr-technology.html peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:A LENR molten salt LENR fission reactor.
Funny—I thought Axil’s rating was i^2. Bob Cook From: Brian Ahern Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 5:58 AM To: vortex-l Subject: Re: [Vo]:A LENR molten salt LENR fission reactor. I cannot believe it. You are quoting Rossi and his fictional Quark X! Your credibility rating must include i for an imaginary number. Is this an early April Fools trick? From: Axil Axil Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 9:15 PM To: vortex-l Subject: [Vo]:A LENR molten salt LENR fission reactor. In the light of the Chernobyl reactor disaster, and the insights that we can glean from it, the best LENR reactor design, IMHO, is a LENR molten salt LENR fission reactor. In professional nuclear engineering, it is well understood that fission produces 100 times more energy per reaction mare or less than fusion, but fission produces relatively few neutrons to keep the reaction going. On the other hand, fusion is weak at producing energy but generates neutrons by the boatload. If an abundant source of muons is available, the lack of neutron production that drives the fission reaction is not a concern anymore. A single muon will produce 200 MeV per muon fission reaction vs. 3 MeV for fusion. So a muon fission reactor is very rich and efficient in energy production and a muon fusion reactor is energy poor. So a muon fission reactor is the way to go because it is about 100 times more energetic than of fusion reactor at producing energy per muon. For example, if the QuarkX produces as many muons as I think that it does, It will require only a few QaurkX reactors inside the core of a molten fluoride salt based thorium reactor to produce a ton of high quality heat energy. Rossi said that 20 watts of electric power is produced by his old 100 watt QUARK reactors Assuming a low voltage of 1 volt, 20 watts means 20 coulombs of electrons are produced a second. If one muon decays to one electron not counting muon escape from the QuarkX, then (20) (6.25 x 10^18 electrons) or about 10^20 of muons per second is produced by 100 watts of QuarkX power production. This assumes that most of the atoms in the molten salt blanket are thorium atoms. That much neutron flux would support a 100 megawatt nuclear reactor on a single reaction per muon basis. But Muons might generate 150 fission and/or fusion reactions per muon. Just a few QuarkX reactors can push out a lot of power and also confine muons inside the reactor thereby utilizing muon production at high efficiency.
[Vo]:Defining the active particle of an LENR runaway
In nuclear fission, the active particle which propagates the reaction is of course the neutron. The identity crisis that we have dealt with in LENR from the start becomes evident when we try to single out the active particle or pseudo-particle, which is the most basic agent that propagates and continues the reaction (in a situation such as "heat-after-death" or the thermal runaway). If nuclear fusion was indeed the source of energy of a runaway or meltdown reaction (and close to a dozen have been reported) then we should be able to identify an anomalous agent of some kind, but it is not gamma radiation or neutrons, so we look for something completely new. Beta particles (fast electrons) and alpha particle can also be ruled out due to proportionate lack of secondary radiation (bremsstrahlung). Yes, there appears to be a tiny amount of all, or any, of the above in LENR at various times, but not coming close to accounting for the emergent thermal gain of a runaway. This is gain far above chemical and far below nuclear, which can cause a large amount of stainless steel to melt, as happened at Thermacore but with no residual radiation. Thus the choices for the active agent in LENR are narrowed primarily to the phonon, for those who follow some version of the Hagelstein theory, or to EUV photons for those who follow Mills, or both. Holmlid has not had a runaway so we can possibly eliminate the more exotic candidates. Obviously, one parameter which distinguishes the runaway reaction is strong Infrared light, also seen in Parkhomov "glow tube" and replications. This brings up the field of optomechanics and more specifically "cavity optomechanics" which studies the interaction between light and mechanical movement. This also brings up the suggestion that with resonance and coherence, both the photon and phonon can be merged together into a hybrid or pseudo-particle. The "SPP" or surface plasmon polariton has been a candidate for LENR active modality - which has been talked about the most, but the SPP does NOT fit the circumstances precisely. Actually it is a poor fit. The plasmon, a quantum of plasma oscillation, does not really fit in the circumstance of a condensed lattice reaction since there is technically no plasma. The polariton does model strong coupling of electromagnetic waves with an electric dipole, which can be present in the runaway but "surface" does not model the a lattice effect. Thus SPP is one out of three accuracy. Moreover, phonons need to be included since mechanical vibration is more fundamental to LENR than optics. Perhaps LENR needs its own specific pseudo-particle, which vaguely resembles the SPP but only when combined with the phonon and eliminating the "surface" feature. Can we label this pseudo-particle as the PPP (phonon-plasmon-polariton) instead of SPP? As fate would have it, something like this PPP pseudo-particle has been proposed, if not witnessed by generation of single phonons at gigahertz frequencies in optoelectronics, where the single phonon has been triggered by single photons in the near infrared. See: http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.234301 It would be intriguing to imagine that a pseudo-particle found in an unrelated field has broader applicability and can function as the active mediator in LENR ... either real or as metaphor. As a real particle, we can probably model "dense hydrogen" as having all the properties of a real PPP - functioning as a hybrid of all three constituents: phonon, plasmon and polariton, reduced to the quantized state.
Re: [Vo]:A LENR molten salt LENR fission reactor.
I cannot believe it. You are quoting Rossi and his fictional Quark X! Your credibility rating must include i for an imaginary number. Is this an early April Fools trick? From: Axil Axil Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 9:15 PM To: vortex-l Subject: [Vo]:A LENR molten salt LENR fission reactor. In the light of the Chernobyl reactor disaster, and the insights that we can glean from it, the best LENR reactor design, IMHO, is a LENR molten salt LENR fission reactor. In professional nuclear engineering, it is well understood that fission produces 100 times more energy per reaction mare or less than fusion, but fission produces relatively few neutrons to keep the reaction going. On the other hand, fusion is weak at producing energy but generates neutrons by the boatload. If an abundant source of muons is available, the lack of neutron production that drives the fission reaction is not a concern anymore. A single muon will produce 200 MeV per muon fission reaction vs. 3 MeV for fusion. So a muon fission reactor is very rich and efficient in energy production and a muon fusion reactor is energy poor. So a muon fission reactor is the way to go because it is about 100 times more energetic than of fusion reactor at producing energy per muon. For example, if the QuarkX produces as many muons as I think that it does, It will require only a few QaurkX reactors inside the core of a molten fluoride salt based thorium reactor to produce a ton of high quality heat energy. Rossi said that 20 watts of electric power is produced by his old 100 watt QUARK reactors Assuming a low voltage of 1 volt, 20 watts means 20 coulombs of electrons are produced a second. If one muon decays to one electron not counting muon escape from the QuarkX, then (20) (6.25 x 10^18 electrons) or about 10^20 of muons per second is produced by 100 watts of QuarkX power production. This assumes that most of the atoms in the molten salt blanket are thorium atoms. That much neutron flux would support a 100 megawatt nuclear reactor on a single reaction per muon basis. But Muons might generate 150 fission and/or fusion reactions per muon. Just a few QuarkX reactors can push out a lot of power and also confine muons inside the reactor thereby utilizing muon production at high efficiency.
