[Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

In response to hot fusion detractors of the cold fusion explanation of
excess heat, proponents of cold fusion say that the conventional theory of
hot fusion does not apply to the conditions present in a lattice. The
proponents argue that the lattice can somehow amplify the probability of
fusion through some sort of enhanced quantum tunneling effect.

What I would like to know is if anyone has proposed the possibility that
the familiar ground state of a hydrogen atom can  be changed and lowered
through some sort of quantum effect of the lattice on the wave function of
a hydrogen atom. If special quantum circumstances are required for the
formation of sub states of hydrogen it would explain why they are not
typically observed.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[ROGER ANDERTON]

This BMJ reportTrends in suicide during the covid-19 pandemic
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352


wonders if sucides will increase; they haven't got the data yet.


-- Original Message --
From: "H LV" 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 19:38
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last


No, but this is getting hypothetical.
Are more people committing suicide?


My point is rightly or wrongly some people's worries and needs will be 
elevated at the expense other people's worries and needs.



Harry




On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 1:24 PM ROGER ANDERTON 
 wrote:


so, people who commit suicide are unimportant and don't count (?)

-- Original Message --
From: "H LV" mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com> >
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 17:42
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

The lives that matter the least become apparent whenever the group is 
threatened.



Harry


On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 12:13 PM ROGER ANDERTON 
mailto:r.j.ander...@btinternet.com> > 
wrote:


Exactly, so if say the sucide rate goes up because of depression brought 
on by lockdown, are they going to count that as death due to covid as 
well?


-- Original Message --
From: "H LV" mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com> >
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 16:58
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

The way covid is being managed is causing other health problems.

It is not as if we were all invincible superman until covid came along.


Harry

[Vo]:All of modern physics wrong – built on misunderstanding of relativity

[ROGER ANDERTON]

All of modern physics wrong – built on misunderstanding ofrelativity
I gave my talk on Einstein’s relativity at two onlineconferences, it 
caused controversy. Einstein’s relativity has beenmisunderstood – 
Special relativity is not a relativity theory; Galileanrelativity is 
nothing to do with what Galileo was talking about; Einstein’srelativity 
was written by his wife and Einstein himself could not have 
properlyunderstood it. The theory has been mistranslated from German; 
misunderstood;misrepresented; misnamed from the very beginning!
My talk at: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6231&v=yWPi5WC_IV0&feature=emb_logo 



First online conference->
ANPA (Alternative Natural Philosophy Association) set upmore than 40 
years ago to look at alternatives to mainstream beliefs, furthertalks 
at:
http://anpa.onl/media/anpa-41-web-conference/ 


Second online conference talks at->
http://www.world-lecture-series.org/level-xii-epr-teleconference-2020 

Latest  online talks(now have more time to do them because on covid 
lockdown):
How relativists (believers in Einstein relativity) lie bythe sin of 
omission
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnVIceUFXCE&feature=youtu.be 


Factoids of Relativity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usq__wyawJw 

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[Michael Foster]

 This discussion leads us nowhere. You are apparently willing to believe that 
CDC "hardworking scientists" are not lying and misleading us by giving us 
manipulated data. You have apparently forgotten that the director of the CDC 
was forced to make a public apology for lying about AIDS data. His excuse, you 
may recall, was that they "did it in a good cause". 

This is frankly enough to make anyone disbelieve anything they say. The worst 
part is that this director was not fired, demoted, fined, nor did he suffer any 
negative consequences for this inexcusable betrayal of public trust. Nor did 
anyone of the "hardworking scientists" suffer the slightest punishment. I'll 
say it again. These people are corrupt to the nines. All the people who did 
this and said nothing about it are still there, unless they have retired by 
now. And I am certain that they are doing all sorts of things "in a good 
cause", including manipulating covid data. 

And you make my point. The rate of infection of covid is unknown and perhaps 
unknowable. For all we know, the infection rate is 100%, which would make the 
fatality rate low indeed. All of the lockdowns and mask wearing have proven to 
be utterly ineffective. Places where the most draconian restrictions have been 
enforced have had surges of infection similar to places where restrictions have 
been relatively relaxed. We keep schools closed in the U.S. even though places 
where schools have been re-opened have shown no particular covid spread. 

You should read the Prescription Drug User Fee Act, whereupon Big Pharma pays 
fees to the FDA, enabling them to put on more (corrupt) employees, so they can 
get their drugs approved on their own schedule. I'd call that paying FDA 
employees by Big Pharma. Maybe that's just me. The fact that such workers are 
not paid directly is merely a technicality, isn't it?

This is not really a forum for this subject, so why don't we just agree to 
disagree. 

We can agree that the vaccines are a good thing, but for different reasons.

 On Saturday, November 21, 2020, 04:17:52 PM GMT+1, Jed Rothwell 
 wrote:  
 
 Michael Foster  wrote:


 Yes, you are correct about the 6% figure. They merely stated that 6% of cases 
that listed covid19 as the sole cause of death failed to list the 
co-morbidities.

Correct. COVID-19 itself does not kill patients directly as often as it leaves 
them open to secondary infections and things like that.


But you have fallen into the trap of the CDC's tricky manipulation of data. 
There have been up to 80,000 deaths per year supposedly caused by influenza 
(which strains?). The CDC then gives the mortality rate based upon an 
*estimated* number of infections. In other words, any number they want to make 
up.

No, they do not make up these numbers. The numbers are based on clinical data 
from doctors and hospitals, and field studies. They are estimated because 
ordinary influenza is not on the list of diseases that doctors must report. 
Some forms of influenza have to be reported but not others. See:
https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001929.htm
 

 They then state the mortality rate among *known* covid infections.

That is the only thing they can do. There are no other reliable numbers at 
present. There will be more data after widespread antibody tests can be 
performed. In any case, we know that COVID-19 kills at least 10 times more 
people than influenza in a typical year. Influenza typically kills around 
30,000, although some years a dangerous strain will kill many more. We know 
that COVID-19 has only infected a small fraction of the population, because 
people have taken precautions such as wearing masks, whereas influenza infects 
a much larger fraction. If COVID-19 were to spread as widely as influenza 
usually does, it would kill ~40 times more people than influenza. It would also 
disable many people for life with permanent lung damage, strokes, heart 
problems, amputations and so on. Influenza seldom does that. So it is far more 
lethal and serious.
 
 These people at the CDC, the NIH and the FDA are corrupt to the nines.

Not the ones I know. They are hardworking scientists. I think you should not 
generalize about people you know nothing about. 

 In the FDA, and I know this is hard to believe, many of the employees' 
salaries are actually paid by pharmaceutical companies.

That would be against Federal law. I know several people who work or worked for 
Uncle Sam, such as my late mother. They cannot accept so much as a ham sandwich 
from anyone. Where did you read that? Be careful what you believe.
  

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

50% increase of Children in hospital emergency clinics due to 
psychological environment impact! (Not directly from Cov-19 from missing 
school parents etc..)


German link

https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/belastende-coronakrise-auffallend-mehr-notfaelle-in-kinder-und-jugendpsychiatrien


J.W.


On 21.11.2020 20:38, H LV wrote:

No, but this is getting hypothetical.
Are more people committing suicide?

My point is rightly or wrongly some people's worries and needs will be 
elevated at the expense other people's worries and needs.


Harry


On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 1:24 PM ROGER ANDERTON 
 wrote:


so, people who commit suicide are unimportant and don't count (?)

-- Original Message -- From: "H LV"
mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com>> To:
vortex-l@eskimo.com  Sent:
Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 17:42 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news
about the pandemic at last
The lives that matter the least become apparent whenever the
group is threatened.
Harry
On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 12:13 PM ROGER ANDERTON
mailto:r.j.ander...@btinternet.com>>
wrote:

Exactly, so if say the sucide rate goes up because of
depression brought on by lockdown, are they going to count
that as death due to covid as well?

-- Original Message -- From: "H LV"
mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com>>
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 16:58 Subject: Re:
[Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last
The way covid is being managed is causing other health
problems.
It is not as if we were all invincible superman until
covid came along.
Harry


--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

In Japan the suicide rate is up 80% among woman.

far more deaths by suicide than from Covid-19...


3/4 of all deaths in the USA were forced by the Free masons/rotary 
pharma mafia that orchestrated the suppression of working  medication. 
May be Biden will support Den Haag again (not a real hope). Time to 
bring some Gilead manager in the court/jail.



J.W.


On 21.11.2020 20:38, H LV wrote:

No, but this is getting hypothetical.
Are more people committing suicide?

My point is rightly or wrongly some people's worries and needs will be 
elevated at the expense other people's worries and needs.


Harry


On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 1:24 PM ROGER ANDERTON 
 wrote:


so, people who commit suicide are unimportant and don't count (?)

-- Original Message -- From: "H LV"
mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com>> To:
vortex-l@eskimo.com  Sent:
Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 17:42 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news
about the pandemic at last
The lives that matter the least become apparent whenever the
group is threatened.
Harry
On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 12:13 PM ROGER ANDERTON
mailto:r.j.ander...@btinternet.com>>
wrote:

Exactly, so if say the sucide rate goes up because of
depression brought on by lockdown, are they going to count
that as death due to covid as well?

-- Original Message -- From: "H LV"
mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com>>
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 16:58 Subject: Re:
[Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last
The way covid is being managed is causing other health
problems.
It is not as if we were all invincible superman until
covid came along.
Harry


--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:All of modern physics wrong – built on misunderstanding of relativity

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

If you like to follow a serious talk/discussion about general relativity 
I do recommend



::: 
https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is_the_non-locality_of_the_gravitational_energy_a_serious_problem_for_General_Relativity



Needs some deep math knowledge


And of course GR is incomplete as the connection to EM theory is not 
possible only by misusing the 4 potential that is not GR conform in the 
wrong way what is also done in QED an other model that fails for mass.



J.W.



On 21.11.2020 19:37, ROGER ANDERTON wrote:


All of modern physics wrong – built on misunderstanding of relativity

I gave my talk on Einstein’s relativity at two online conferences, it 
caused controversy. Einstein’s relativity has been misunderstood – 
Special relativity is not a relativity theory; Galilean relativity is 
nothing to do with what Galileo was talking about; Einstein’s 
relativity was written by his wife and Einstein himself could not have 
properly understood it. The theory has been mistranslated from German; 
misunderstood; misrepresented; misnamed from the very beginning!


My talk at: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6231&v=yWPi5WC_IV0&feature=emb_logo 



First online conference->

ANPA (Alternative Natural Philosophy Association) set up more than 40 
years ago to look at alternatives to mainstream beliefs, further talks at:


http://anpa.onl/media/anpa-41-web-conference/ 



Second online conference talks at->

http://www.world-lecture-series.org/level-xii-epr-teleconference-2020 



Latestonline talks (now have more time to do them because on covid 
lockdown):


How relativists (believers in Einstein relativity) lie by the sin of 
omission


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnVIceUFXCE&feature=youtu.be 



Factoids of Relativity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usq__wyawJw 





--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[H LV]

No, but this is getting hypothetical.
Are more people committing suicide?

My point is rightly or wrongly some people's worries and needs will be
elevated at the expense other people's worries and needs.

Harry


On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 1:24 PM ROGER ANDERTON 
wrote:

> so, people who commit suicide are unimportant and don't count (?)
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "H LV" 
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 17:42
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last
>
> The lives that matter the least become apparent whenever the group is
> threatened.
>
> Harry
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 12:13 PM ROGER ANDERTON <
> r.j.ander...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> Exactly, so if say the sucide rate goes up because of depression brought
>> on by lockdown, are they going to count that as death due to covid as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "H LV" 
>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 16:58
>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last
>>
>> The way covid is being managed is causing other health problems.
>>
>> It is not as if we were all invincible superman until covid came along.
>>
>> Harry
>>
>>
>>
>>>

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[ROGER ANDERTON]

so, people who commit suicide are unimportant and don't count (?)

-- Original Message --
From: "H LV" 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 17:42
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

The lives that matter the least become apparent whenever the group is 
threatened.



Harry


On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 12:13 PM ROGER ANDERTON 
mailto:r.j.ander...@btinternet.com> > 
wrote:


Exactly, so if say the sucide rate goes up because of depression brought 
on by lockdown, are they going to count that as death due to covid as 
well?


-- Original Message --
From: "H LV" mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com> >
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 16:58
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

The way covid is being managed is causing other health problems.

It is not as if we were all invincible superman until covid came along.


Harry

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

We (Switzerland) recently had the most brutal increase in cases world 
wide, what would be 400'000/day compared to USA (or even >1'200'000 in 
strongly affected small parts) . We "slightly" tightened the rules of 
interaction as all schools for people over 18 are again online only. But 
all restaurants (not all bars,clubs only the one that can work with 
reduced numbers of guests) are open also gyms etc.. Only sports with 
close contacts are forbidden. People are asked to do home work as often 
as possible.


Our Government today just said: We can live with it. We know that a 
larger, than usual, fraction of old/very old people will die but that's 
the price. 97.5% of the people that die are older than 65!


A shut-down is no help as you have to redo it every 2-3 month. We call 
this the Yo-Yo effect.


The total ICU usage went up to 78% (only about 1/3 from CoV-19) and now 
(at 77%) is stable.



You can bet that our economy will only get a small bump compared with 
all others and people are treated as humans that need sport, a dine with 
a friend etc..



But this is Switzerland others have to find their own rules!


As also some small places (counties) inside Switzerland did find their 
own - stronger -  rules, but not country wide.



J.W.


On 21.11.2020 18:13, ROGER ANDERTON wrote:
Exactly, so if say the sucide rate goes up because of depression 
brought on by lockdown, are they going to count that as death due to 
covid as well?


-- Original Message -- From: "H LV" 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 16:58
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last
The way covid is being managed is causing other health problems.
It is not as if we were all invincible superman until covid came
along.
Harry


--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[H LV]

The lives that matter the least become apparent whenever the group is
threatened.

Harry

On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 12:13 PM ROGER ANDERTON 
wrote:

> Exactly, so if say the sucide rate goes up because of depression brought
> on by lockdown, are they going to count that as death due to covid as well?
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "H LV" 
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 16:58
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last
>
> The way covid is being managed is causing other health problems.
>
> It is not as if we were all invincible superman until covid came along.
>
> Harry
>
>
>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[ROGER ANDERTON]

Exactly, so if say the sucide rate goes up because of depression brought 
on by lockdown, are they going to count that as death due to covid as 
well?


-- Original Message --
From: "H LV" 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, 21 Nov, 20 At 16:58
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

The way covid is being managed is causing other health problems.

It is not as if we were all invincible superman until covid came along.


Harry

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[H LV]

The way covid is being managed is causing other health problems.

It is not as if we were all invincible superman until covid came along.

Harry



>

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[Lennart Thornros]

Yes Jed I understand your philosophy.
The government does things and they do right.
Inventions, medicine or . . . Doesn't matter you just have that mindset
nothing much to do about.
IMHO there is room for other sometimes opposite opinions.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2020, 11:17 Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Michael Foster  wrote:
>
> Yes, you are correct about the 6% figure. They merely stated that 6% of
>> cases that listed covid19 as the sole cause of death failed to list the
>> co-morbidities.
>>
>
> Correct. COVID-19 itself does not kill patients directly as often as it
> leaves them open to secondary infections and things like that.
>
>
> But you have fallen into the trap of the CDC's tricky manipulation of
>> data. There have been up to 80,000 deaths per year supposedly caused by
>> influenza (which strains?). The CDC then gives the mortality rate based
>> upon an *estimated* number of infections. In other words, any number they
>> want to make up.
>>
>
> No, they do not make up these numbers. The numbers are based on clinical
> data from doctors and hospitals, and field studies. They are estimated
> because ordinary influenza is not on the list of diseases that doctors must
> report. Some forms of influenza have to be reported but not others. See:
>
> https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001929.htm
>
>
> They then state the mortality rate among *known* covid infections.
>>
>
> That is the only thing they can do. There are no other reliable numbers at
> present. There will be more data after widespread antibody tests can be
> performed. In any case, we know that COVID-19 kills at least 10 times more
> people than influenza in a typical year. Influenza typically kills around
> 30,000, although some years a dangerous strain will kill many more. We know
> that COVID-19 has only infected a small fraction of the population, because
> people have taken precautions such as wearing masks, whereas influenza
> infects a much larger fraction. If COVID-19 were to spread as widely as
> influenza usually does, it would kill ~40 times more people than influenza.
> It would also disable many people for life with permanent lung damage,
> strokes, heart problems, amputations and so on. Influenza seldom does that.
> So it is far more lethal and serious.
>
>
>
>> These people at the CDC, the NIH and the FDA are corrupt to the nines.
>>
>
> Not the ones I know. They are hardworking scientists. I think you should
> not generalize about people you know nothing about.
>
>
> In the FDA, and I know this is hard to believe, many of the employees'
>> salaries are actually paid by pharmaceutical companies.
>>
>
> That would be against Federal law. I know several people who work or
> worked for Uncle Sam, such as my late mother. They cannot accept so much as
> a ham sandwich from anyone. Where did you read that? Be careful what you
> believe.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Good news about the pandemic at last

[Jed Rothwell]

Michael Foster  wrote:

Yes, you are correct about the 6% figure. They merely stated that 6% of
> cases that listed covid19 as the sole cause of death failed to list the
> co-morbidities.
>

Correct. COVID-19 itself does not kill patients directly as often as it
leaves them open to secondary infections and things like that.


But you have fallen into the trap of the CDC's tricky manipulation of data.
> There have been up to 80,000 deaths per year supposedly caused by influenza
> (which strains?). The CDC then gives the mortality rate based upon an
> *estimated* number of infections. In other words, any number they want to
> make up.
>

No, they do not make up these numbers. The numbers are based on clinical
data from doctors and hospitals, and field studies. They are estimated
because ordinary influenza is not on the list of diseases that doctors must
report. Some forms of influenza have to be reported but not others. See:

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001929.htm


They then state the mortality rate among *known* covid infections.
>

That is the only thing they can do. There are no other reliable numbers at
present. There will be more data after widespread antibody tests can be
performed. In any case, we know that COVID-19 kills at least 10 times more
people than influenza in a typical year. Influenza typically kills around
30,000, although some years a dangerous strain will kill many more. We know
that COVID-19 has only infected a small fraction of the population, because
people have taken precautions such as wearing masks, whereas influenza
infects a much larger fraction. If COVID-19 were to spread as widely as
influenza usually does, it would kill ~40 times more people than influenza.
It would also disable many people for life with permanent lung damage,
strokes, heart problems, amputations and so on. Influenza seldom does that.
So it is far more lethal and serious.



> These people at the CDC, the NIH and the FDA are corrupt to the nines.
>

Not the ones I know. They are hardworking scientists. I think you should
not generalize about people you know nothing about.


In the FDA, and I know this is hard to believe, many of the employees'
> salaries are actually paid by pharmaceutical companies.
>

That would be against Federal law. I know several people who work or worked
for Uncle Sam, such as my late mother. They cannot accept so much as a ham
sandwich from anyone. Where did you read that? Be careful what you believe.