Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[Teslaalset]

Orbo is basically a solid state refinement of what John Bedini has been
claimed for decades.
Remarkable that there is so limited scientific discussion on the key
principle of their patent: rapidly switching core permeability while a coil
carries current.

Since core permeability relates to inductor value and inductor value is
proportional to the energy an inductor holds, while carrying current,
rapidly switching coil core permeability rapidly changes the amount of
energy a coil holds.
Of course it takes energy to change core permeability but there may be a
time related overshoot in permeability change that could be harvested. It
may take significantly less energy to change core permeability than the
delta energy the related coil undergoes.

In the case of Orbo, according their patent, they use a Metglas toroid
shaped core to rapidly change the permeability of the air gap between two
ferrite cores. Metglas requires very little energy to saturate and has very
little core losses. Core losses of ferrite cores are also quite low.

The potential energy gains are small however, which could make a small
battery charger the ideal target application.
Larger power generation requires too much core material and copper to make
it economical feasible at this stage. The Watts/Kilogram ratio is currently
too low.



On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 4:06 AM, Craig Brown <cr...@overunity.co> wrote:

>
> According to a newspaper article last year sometime Steorn received a few
> million more Euros investment from their shareholders and other investors
> in the company. They don't seem to have any issue with funding, especially
> as they seem to be close to the finishing line at long last.
>
> The Orbo PowerCube is approx 9cm x 9cm, has no moving parts and can
> trickle charge mobile phones and the like from a single USB port on the
> device. They have recently been floating packaging ideas around and had
> also hired brand and internet consultants who are the ones I believe who
> came up with the new logo, so I think we could be seeing the first product
> hit the market by the end of the year - maybe a lot sooner.
>
> See one of my reports on this:
> http://freeenergy.news/steorn/pub-launch-for-steorns-orbo-powercube/
>
> Craig
>
> ---- Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:
> From: Analog Fan <analogit...@yahoo.com>
> Date: Wed, September 16, 2015 11:25 am
> To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
>
> On Friday, September 11, 2015 2:59 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson
> <orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> >What I find interesting is that throughout all of these years the company
> apparently hasn't gone belly up. Despite all of its prior... how should I
> say this... spectacular failures, how is it possible for Steorn to continue
> to stay afloat?
>
>
> Steorn raised at least ten million euros from investors. According to
> http://moletrap.co.uk/forum/, Steorn's investors are primarily Irish
> farmers, not known for their physics knowledge. This is supported by
> documents e.g. http://www.scribd.com/doc/52869096/Steorn-B10-20110411
> where three directors named to the board list their occupation as 'farmer'.
>
>
> Gullible investors can sustain a company for many years (cf Rossi, BLP,
> EEstor, Rohner et al)
> >What comes next? Can somebody please pass the popcorn my way?
>
> I am sure those farmers aren't passing any popcorn.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[David Roberson]

Does this type of energy generation require a residual flux be present from an 
exterior source such as leakage from the AC power network?  Also, can the 
system be positioned in any direction that results in a null or change to the 
energy level generated?

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Teslaalset <robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 16, 2015 4:37 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:


 
Orbo is basically a solid state refinement of what John Bedini has been claimed 
for decades.   
Remarkable that there is so limited scientific discussion on the key principle 
of their patent: rapidly switching core permeability while a coil carries 
current.   
  
   
  
  
Since core permeability relates to inductor value and inductor value is 
proportional to the energy an inductor holds, while carrying current, rapidly 
switching coil core permeability rapidly changes the amount of energy a coil 
holds.   
  
Of course it takes energy to change core permeability but there may be a time 
related overshoot in permeability change that could be harvested. It may take 
significantly less energy to change core permeability than the delta energy the 
related coil undergoes.   
  
   
  
  
In the case of Orbo, according their patent, they use a Metglas toroid shaped 
core to rapidly change the permeability of the air gap between two ferrite 
cores. Metglas requires very little energy to saturate and has very little core 
losses. Core losses of ferrite cores are also quite low.   
  
   
  
  
The potential energy gains are small however, which could make a small battery 
charger the ideal target application.   
  
Larger power generation requires too much core material and copper to make it 
economical feasible at this stage. The Watts/Kilogram ratio is currently too 
low.   

   

Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[Teslaalset]

Those are valid questions that maybe point to the source of surplus energy
that ORBO claims to have.
The energy gain due to permeability switching has to have a source. This
may very well be external (electro) magnetic fields indeed.
Smart design should be able to make it direction independent.


On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 3:46 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> Does this type of energy generation require a residual flux be present
> from an exterior source such as leakage from the AC power network?  Also,
> can the system be positioned in any direction that results in a null or
> change to the energy level generated?
>
> Dave
>
>

Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[David Roberson]

It would make the product more believable if it borrows energy from existing 
external magnetic fields.   The complexity of building a device that escapes 
all possible major nulls might be too difficult to cope with.  I have a feeling 
that they restrict this somewhat to save device cost.  Of course, I am assuming 
that the external field supplies the energy.

A constant valued steady external magnetic field should not be capable of 
supplying energy by itself other than during the initial application of that 
field.  I suppose we are going to have to obtain one of these beasts to figure 
out exactly how it operates.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Teslaalset <robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 16, 2015 11:40 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:


 
Those are valid questions that maybe point to the source of surplus energy that 
ORBO claims to have.   
The energy gain due to permeability switching has to have a source. This may 
very well be external (electro) magnetic fields indeed.   
  
Smart design should be able to make it direction independent.   
  
   
   


On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 3:46 PM, David Roberson  <dlrober...@aol.com> 
wrote: 
 
  Does this type of energy generation require a residual flux be present 
from an exterior source such as leakage from the AC power network?  Also, can 
the system be positioned in any direction that results in a null or change to 
the energy level generated?
 
 Dave
 

   
 

   
  
 
 

RE: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[Craig Brown]

According to a newspaper article last year sometime Steorn received a few million more Euros investment from their shareholders and other investors in the company. They don't seem to have any issue with funding, especially as they seem to be close to the finishing line at long last.The Orbo PowerCube is approx 9cm x 9cm, has no moving parts and can trickle charge mobile phones and the like from a single USB port on the device. They have recently been floating packaging ideas around and had also hired brand and internet consultants who are the ones I believe who came up with the new logo, so I think we could be seeing the first product hit the market by the end of the year - maybe a lot sooner.See one of my reports on this:http://freeenergy.news/steorn/pub-launch-for-steorns-orbo-powercube/Craig

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:
From: Analog Fan <analogit...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, September 16, 2015 11:25 am
To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>

On Friday, September 11, 2015 2:59 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson <orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:

>What I find interesting is that throughout all of these years the company apparently hasn't gone belly up. Despite all of its prior... how should I say this... spectacular failures, how is it possible for Steorn to continue to stay afloat? 


Steorn raised at least ten million euros from investors. According to http://moletrap.co.uk/forum/, Steorn's investors are primarily Irish farmers, not known for their physics knowledge. This is supported by documents e.g. http://www.scribd.com/doc/52869096/Steorn-B10-20110411 where three directors named to the board list their occupation as 'farmer'.


Gullible investors can sustain a company for many years (cf Rossi, BLP, EEstor, Rohner et al) 
>What comes next? Can somebody please pass the popcorn my way?
  
I am sure those farmers aren't passing any popcorn.

Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[Analog Fan]

On Friday, September 11, 2015 2:59 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson 
 wrote:

>What I find interesting is that throughout all of these years the company 
>apparently hasn't gone belly up. Despite all of its prior... how should I say 
>this... spectacular failures, how is it possible for Steorn to continue to 
>stay afloat? 


Steorn raised at least ten million euros from investors. According to 
http://moletrap.co.uk/forum/, Steorn's investors are primarily Irish farmers, 
not known for their physics knowledge. This is supported by documents e.g. 
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52869096/Steorn-B10-20110411 where three directors 
named to the board list their occupation as 'farmer'.


Gullible investors can sustain a company for many years (cf Rossi, BLP, EEstor, 
Rohner et al) 
>What comes next? Can somebody please pass the popcorn my way?
  
I am sure those farmers aren't passing any popcorn.

Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[David Roberson]

Looks like snake oil to me.

Dave

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Daniel Rocha <danieldi...@gmail.com>
To: John Milstone <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2015 10:43 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:


 
  
   
It's probably explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3JogbHX8yo


   
   
 
 

RE: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

The video can be found at the following link:

 

http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/05/06/announcement-demonstration-of-steorns-n
ever-die-orbo-power-cube-battery-in-dublin-pub-starting-friday/

or

 

http://tinyurl.com/oqkfp3x

 

Just scroll down a couple of screen fulls.

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[Jed Rothwell]

Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson  wrote:

> One gets the impression the device is pretty close to being ready to be
> boxed and sold commercially to the public.
>
That is my impression from the announcement. I doubt this device is real,
and I doubt we will ever hear of this again, but suppose for the sake of
argument it is true. As I said before about others who pursued this
strategy, such as Rossi, this is a supremely stupid thing to do. It will
cost a great deal of money and waste a lot of time. It may end
catastrophically, if one of the units malfunctions.

There is no need to sell anything to the public, or to produce more than a
handful of gadgets. Ten should be enough. Find ten experts at places like
Georgia Tech who express interest in testing them. Give them the gadgets
with a one month time limit. The expert has to test it and write a report
in one month, or return the gadget. After a month or so you have 10 reports
from experts showing that the gadget is real. With that in hand you can get
10 more experts, or 100 more. Soon everyone in the world will believe the
claim and you can then collect billions dollars in contracts to manufacture
them or in investment capital.

There is no need to involve the public, or to mass produce anything. These
steps would actually be counterproductive.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[Jones Beene]

From: Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson 

 

Ø  It would appear STEORN may soon be getting ready to market a cordless
charger for your cellphone. Gets its energy from... who knows.

 

Given the lack of technical acumen at Steorn, and given that are showing a
commercial product (at a Pub, of course) which they do not have the skill to
design or produce, it is almost certain that they are repackaging someone
else’s product. They could be repackaging ADGEX technology, especially since
the Russian/Aussie company showed a similar recharger … before the
flashlight.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VYC8K77MSc
 =1

 

A possible scenario is that neither ADGEX or Steorn have found an actual
breakthrough - other than advanced energy storage, which infringes on
someone else’s IP. Barium titanate is amazing stuff, but it is well covered
in patents. It could also be have a few inherent risks (as we have discussed
here).

 

I have one of the “miracle flashlights” on order, but they saying that it
will not ship for a month or two, so it is probably a scam as well … or at
best an advanced capacitor, or Batt-Cap. Which is okay.

 

In short, there is a good possibility that someone (ADGEX) wants to avoid
the little problem of patent licensing or cannot afford liability insurance
– but is ready  to ship a simple produce which implements barium titanate or
graphene technology, or both together – so as to market in an early product
which stores much more energy than expected. 

 

There are not too many ways to proceed to market, if you know that you are
infringing on established IP … and the flashlight, or the cell phone
recharger are useful products which will bring in enough dollars to fight
off the first round of legal challenges.

 

 

Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[Frank Acland]

Not sure, but this is the latest T-shirt design, from CEO Shaun McCarthy's
Facebook profile:

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11896090_10153129810703977_2701005192849534586_n.jpg?oh=98d0448fa86fc22274063d089c6d744f=56A41575



On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:

> Jones, always presenting the Vort Collective with the perception of the
> quintessential cynic spiced with a well-researched conspiratorial slant!
> And Jed, countering much of that spice with a more practical no-nonsense
> POV. Both POVs, I find valuable.
>
>
>
> Agreed, the probability that this latest episode will pan out is about as
> likely as discovering a patch of land south of the South Pole - to
> paraphrase a saying Dr. Robert Park coined while expressing his adamant
> disbelief for the existence of hydrinos.
>
>
>
> Fortunately, it costs me nothing to keep watching the continuing saga
> unfold from the Peanut Gallery. What I find interesting is that throughout
> all of these years the company apparently hasn't gone belly up. Despite all
> of its prior... how should I say this... spectacular failures, how is it
> possible for Steorn to continue to stay afloat? I confess, during weaker
> moments I find myself speculating that the outfit must have deliberately
> orchestrated a number of well-publicized failures just to shake the
> competition off of their tail while continuing to perfect their
> super-secret product line behind closed doors. In all honesty, I serious
> doubt that line-of-thought. Just too damned conspiratorial for my own blood.
>
>
>
> What comes next? Can somebody please pass the popcorn my way?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Steven Vincent Johnson
>
> OrionWorks.com
>
> zazzle.com/orionworks
>



-- 
Frank Acland
Publisher, E-Cat World 

RE: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

Jones, always presenting the Vort Collective with the perception of the 
quintessential cynic spiced with a well-researched conspiratorial slant! And 
Jed, countering much of that spice with a more practical no-nonsense POV. Both 
POVs, I find valuable.

 

Agreed, the probability that this latest episode will pan out is about as 
likely as discovering a patch of land south of the South Pole - to paraphrase a 
saying Dr. Robert Park coined while expressing his adamant disbelief for the 
existence of hydrinos. 

 

Fortunately, it costs me nothing to keep watching the continuing saga unfold 
from the Peanut Gallery. What I find interesting is that throughout all of 
these years the company apparently hasn't gone belly up. Despite all of its 
prior... how should I say this... spectacular failures, how is it possible for 
Steorn to continue to stay afloat? I confess, during weaker moments I find 
myself speculating that the outfit must have deliberately orchestrated a number 
of well-publicized failures just to shake the competition off of their tail 
while continuing to perfect their super-secret product line behind closed 
doors. In all honesty, I serious doubt that line-of-thought. Just too damned 
conspiratorial for my own blood.

 

What comes next? Can somebody please pass the popcorn my way?

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

OrionWorks.com

zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Fri, 11 Sep 2015 19:15:44 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>To confuse matters, the supercapacitor (sometimes called ultracapacitor) is 
>electrochemical like the battery but with extreme capacitance at low voltage 
>(~1.2 v) dictated by chemistry. These bridge the gap between the old 
>electrolytic capacitors and one-time batteries. The SC store more energy and 
>tolerate many more discharge cycles but are larger in size per unit of energy. 
>The EEStor device has much higher voltage (up to 2000 v) and on paper looks 
>superior to any SC or the lithium ion battery by a factor of 2-3, but the 
>developers cannot demonstrate this in a working product. 

Of course not. They put a high resistance material with low dielectric constant
in series with a material with high dielectric constant, and expect that the
high voltage will appear across the high dielectric substance, which of course
it doesn't. It appears across the low dielectric constant material, leaving only
a much lower voltage across the high dielectric constant material, and
consequently much less energy stored than they anticipated.

Common sense dictates that had the whole voltage (which exceeds the breakdown
voltage of the high dielectric constant material) actually been across that
material, then it would have shorted internally. Were that not the case, then
there would have been no initial need for the series placement of the materials
in the first place.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[Daniel Rocha]

It's probably explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3JogbHX8yo

Re: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Fri, 11 Sep 2015 19:15:44 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>Plus – we should remember that capacitors technically do not “store 
>charge” Instead, charge is segregated and transported via the external 
>circuit as EMF and stored as energy in the electric field between the plates 
>but not as charge on the plates. To “charge a capacitor” is not to store 
>actual electrostatic charge - but to use circuits to store energy in a 
>dielectric using electrons as charge carriers. In short, we are adding 
>“information and control,” in order to hybridize the battery of tomorrow.

I'm fairly sure this is wrong. Capacitors do indeed store charge on the plates.
The effect of the dielectric is to make the plates appear as though they were
closer together than they actually are. IOW each plate "feels" the other more
strongly than the separation distance in vacuum would imply.

If no charge were stored, then no current could flow.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: [Vo]:STEORN in the news again:

[Jones Beene]

From: Frank Acland 

… this is the latest T-shirt design, from CEO Shaun McCarthy's Facebook profile:

 “The battery is dead”

Which is News to a genuine entrepreneur like Elon Musk. Yet, it is true that 
semantics is blurring the distinction between battery and capacitor, or between 
those two and the fuel cell. This effectively relegates the only the lowly 
alkaline battery to the throw-away garbage it has become. 

Eventually, higher performance batteries (which used to be call “betteries” in 
the heyday of EEStor) will be engineered to have greater and greater 
capacitance for a number of reasons and the dividing line will disappear – but 
maybe not the old name. The SC (supercap) or BatCap (which is different from 
the SC) and advanced systems which use graphene to complement ion charge 
carriers are moving towards hybridization. Hopefully, this is what ADGEX (or 
maybe Steorn) has accomplished. But don’t hold your breath.

Even PhysOrg cannot keep it all straight –still calling the SC device a 
“battery”
http://phys.org/news/2014-09-greater-capacity-batteries-smaller-devices.html
To confuse matters, the supercapacitor (sometimes called ultracapacitor) is 
electrochemical like the battery but with extreme capacitance at low voltage 
(~1.2 v) dictated by chemistry. These bridge the gap between the old 
electrolytic capacitors and one-time batteries. The SC store more energy and 
tolerate many more discharge cycles but are larger in size per unit of energy. 
The EEStor device has much higher voltage (up to 2000 v) and on paper looks 
superior to any SC or the lithium ion battery by a factor of 2-3, but the 
developers cannot demonstrate this in a working product. 

To complete the semantic muddiness, Supercaps have “pseudocapacitance” which 
can be achieved by Faradaic electron charge-transfer with or without redox 
reactions. Going further, pseudocapacitance can be combined with a superior 
dielectric to give the best of all worlds, arguably including high voltage. 
Plus – we should remember that capacitors technically do not “store charge” 
Instead, charge is segregated and transported via the external circuit as EMF 
and stored as energy in the electric field between the plates but not as charge 
on the plates. To “charge a capacitor” is not to store actual electrostatic 
charge - but to use circuits to store energy in a dielectric using electrons as 
charge carriers. In short, we are adding “information and control,” in order to 
hybridize the battery of tomorrow.

Also, there is a small but necessary amount of charge separation that 
establishes the open circuit voltage across any battery. The point being that, 
despite semantic difficulties, a hybrid device will emerge, combining the best 
features of a range of storage devices - and the actual name we give it will 
probably remain the same = battery. Shaun should change his message:

The battery is dead. Long live the battery !

Using both ions and electrons as charge carriers is an advantage, but what 
about self-recharging? Can that little trick be a function of sequentially 
oscillating both polarities of charge carrier? Where would the excess energy 
come from? It is clear that the SC has a hysteresis-like memory and appears to 
self-charge, but that feature cannot be used to do real work and invalidate the 
2nd Law. 

Or … not yet… but when a device has massive capacitance, it is metaphorically 
like a hundred mile deep crater. It can effectively draw in  a flow of external 
energy which otherwise seems to be too weak. Background energy seems weak 
because there is usually no “sink”… yet ambient heat will be extremely robust 
when you can engineer a zero degree kelvin heat sink !

Self-charge for net gain is far from proved, but in a way – it is easier to 
rationalize than LENR, and certainly more useful as a practical expedient. If 
ADGEX starts shipping these eternal lamps, demonstrating a valid energy anomaly 
– then everything changes no matter what AR may do with the ECat … that seems 
to be the bottom line.