[Vo]:Goodbye, Vortex!

2010-03-24 Thread Steven Krivit




Re: [Vo]:Goodbye, Vortex!

2010-03-24 Thread Jed Rothwell

You can dish it out, but you can't take it, can you?

You say researchers look like true believers or idiots, you use 
cheap tricks to distort graphic data, and then when someone calls you 
out, you quit in a huff. How childish. It is hard to believe anyone 
can be reporter with such thin skin.


For the record, people have said far worse things about me, countless 
times. The only forum I ever quit was CMNS because they wanted to 
keep the discussion confidential, and I can't be bothered to remember 
what is supposed to be confidential and what isn't. I have no 
objection whatever to their policy and no ill will toward them, but I 
cannot organize myself well enough to abide by it.


- Jed



Re: [Vo]:Goodbye, Vortex!

2010-03-24 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax

At 02:17 PM 3/24/2010, Jed Rothwell wrote:

You can dish it out, but you can't take it, can you?

You say researchers look like true believers or idiots, you use 
cheap tricks to distort graphic data, and then when someone calls 
you out, you quit in a huff. How childish. It is hard to believe 
anyone can be reporter with such thin skin.


Well, believe it. It's obviously possible. It's also unstable. I 
don't think there is an anti-CF lobby that will fund Krivit. Some 
will use him to attempt to continue to discredit Cold fusion, and 
I've seen that for some time, but it became common in this current 
flap. That won't last, though I imagine that some, for a time, will 
continue to pull out, The former strong believer in Cold Fusion, 
Steve Krivit, retracted his prior belief in 2010, blasting cold 
fusion researchers for distorting their data.


He might be able to do something to pull a rabbit out of the hat, but 
the apparent inability to listen makes me doubt that he has what it would take.


He'd have to say, probably, something like Well, I was exaggerating 
some in writing that, trying to help everyone avoid an error of 
jumping to conclusions. But since the process takes in deuterium and 
produces helium, it must be fusion, generally construed, and would 
thus produce roughly 24 MeV from the main reaction, neglecting minor 
side-reactions. By saying it wasn't fusion, I was, of course, 
referring to the fact that it has not been proven to be simple d-d 
fusion, there are alternate hypotheses that don't depend on that 
simple reaction, and the 24 MeV figure is not fully established by 
experimental evidence, it remains an approximation. I got carried 
away in my enthusiasm.


Or something like that. And then he'd have to say, over and over, 
It's fusion, cold fusion, just a different kind than what everyone 
was expecting. Fusion. Fusion. Fusion. Could we require him to write 
it on the blackboard a hundred times, and send him home with a note 
to his parents? And then welcome him back, everyone smiling? Including him?


For the record, people have said far worse things about me, 
countless times. The only forum I ever quit was CMNS because they 
wanted to keep the discussion confidential, and I can't be bothered 
to remember what is supposed to be confidential and what isn't. I 
have no objection whatever to their policy and no ill will toward 
them, but I cannot organize myself well enough to abide by it.


Confidentiality can have its value, but you've nailed a problem with 
it. There are possible compromises.







Re: [Vo]:Goodbye, Vortex!

2010-03-24 Thread Harry Veeder


 
 At 02:17 PM 3/24/2010, Jed Rothwell wrote:
 You can dish it out, but you 
 can't take it, can you?


 For the 
 record, people have said far worse things about me, countless times. The only 
 forum I ever quit was CMNS because they wanted to keep the discussion 
 confidential, and I can't be bothered to remember what is supposed to be 
 confidential and what isn't. I have no objection whatever to their policy and 
 no 
 ill will toward them, but I cannot organize myself well enough to abide by 
 it.


Is confidentiality maintained because some of the participants are worried 
about losing their day jobs if word got out that they were taking CF research 
seriously?

Harry


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Re: [Vo]:Goodbye, Vortex!

2010-03-24 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax

At 08:29 PM 3/24/2010, Harry Veeder wrote:

Is confidentiality maintained because some of the participants are 
worried about losing their day jobs if word got out that they were 
taking CF research seriously?


If some think that, and imagine that a mailing list is sufficiently 
confidential, they are dreaming. If this is a problem for someone, 
get a free email account, using a name that isn't connected with you, 
let the moderator know who you are (and confirm it), and then use 
this account for the list.


Wear shoes, don't try to cover the world with leather.

There was an editor on wikipedia who was a skeptic about cold fusion, 
but who was very concerned about the possibility that his employer 
might find out he was even *discussing* this stuff. Good chance that 
fear was overblown, but it's still possible.