Re: [Vo]:H-Ni reactions was tested by NASA - why didnt they continue this early research, if it worked?
Am 01.10.2011 00:45, schrieb Jed Rothwell: Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de mailto:peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Yes, but this is not what is needed. The Rossi device is inaccessible. An accessible and working device is needed to do LENR research. Defkalion says they will begin selling commercial quantities of these devices next year. This will make them available to do LENR research. I don't see what your problem is. Jed, I dont want to create a conflict that is not needed and is not helpful to anybody. They can do both. This experiment http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19960016952_1996035672.pdf has some advantages. 1) Repeatable. 2) There is no time consuming preparation needed for the nickel wires. 3) The device is documented and known. So they must first make absolutely sure that this works. They could use a catalyzer to recombine all hydrogen and oxygen, then they can seal the device against air and can precisely measure it. Or they can make an arrangement to capture hydrogen and oxygen and measure the volume. It must also be measured that no CO2 bubbles out. This could be possible, because they use K2CO3 as an electrolyte. If this all is successful and has a positive surplus energy result, then they can: 1) Examine the nickel wires chemically and with electronmicroscope and all advanced methods that they have. 2) Precisely measuring neutrons and gamma radiation and gamma spectrum. 3) Repeat the experiment under high pressure and high temperatures, to see if the COP can be increased. 4) They could try to inject purified hydrogen into the cell instead doing electrolysis. 5) They can if it works with solid state material instead using a fluid system This experiment has the big advantage it is repeatable and has short turnaround time, this should speed up everything in research and RD and they could finally develop this into better methods in an evolutionary approach. They did this experiment in 1995 and I dont understand why they didnt continue these experiments, when they had success. Best, Peter
[Vo]:H-Ni reactions was tested by NASA - why didnt they continue this early research, if it worked?
Am 30.09.2011 21:11, schrieb Jed Rothwell: Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de mailto:peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: I found this document, where NASA found excess heat in H-Ni electrolysis. http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19960016952_1996035672.pdf Could it be this document is an april joke that was leaked out? NASA does not joke. Especially about cold fusion. Im not so sure. After carefully studying the paper I found that they unfortunately did not measure the amount of H2 and O2 bubbling out. This would be absolutely necessary. When the electrolysis starts then hydrogen and oxygen will be solved in water instead bubbling out. This is well known from ancient classical chemical experiments using the Hoffmann electrolysis apparat. This will continue until the water is satured with oxygen and hydrogen. Now, they use a stirrer and they have a platinum electrode. It is also well known from classic chemistry , that platinum acts as a catalyst and recombines hydrogen and oxygen, producing heat. They assume that most hydrogen and oxygen was not recombined and this assumption might be wrong. There could be much more recombination than they think. This MUST be measured. (Pons Fleischmann had similar problems) So it would be absolutely necessary to measure the produced H2 and the O2 in order to get evident results. I ask myself if they started to investigate this, why did they only go the half way? This is amateurish or it is incomplete. If this works repeatable and the energy can be reliable proven, then they dont need Rossi and his poprietary secret methods and devices. Peter
Re: [Vo]:H-Ni reactions was tested by NASA - why didnt they continue this early research, if it worked?
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: If this works repeatable and the energy can be reliable proven, then they dont need Rossi and his poprietary secret methods and devices. Assuming the claims made by Rossi and Defkalion are true, they are far better of any previous version of nickel cold fusion (or the Mills effect), including this one. They are better in many ways such as: control, power density, the ability to run without input, and so on. They are better than Piantelli, as far as I know. Perhaps Piantelli has unpublished results rivaling these. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:H-Ni reactions was tested by NASA - why didnt they continue this early research, if it worked?
Am 30.09.2011 23:30, schrieb Jed Rothwell: Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de mailto:peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: If this works repeatable and the energy can be reliable proven, then they dont need Rossi and his poprietary secret methods and devices. Assuming the claims made by Rossi and Defkalion are true, they are far better of any previous version of nickel cold fusion (or the Mills effect), including this one. They are better in many ways such as: control, power density, the ability to run without input, and so on. They are better than Piantelli, as far as I know. Perhaps Piantelli has unpublished results rivaling these. Yes, but this is not what is needed. The Rossi device is inaccessible. An accessible and working device is needed to do LENR research. This is also what the LENR community needs to get scientific acknowledgement and official support. If they have a working and accessible experiment, then they can research this and when the process is scientifically understood, then they can develop something better than Rossi. I do highly doubt that NASA would want to use Rossis e-cats for space rockets. They need something better and they need to understand and to calculate the devices that they use. regards, Peter
Re: [Vo]:H-Ni reactions was tested by NASA - why didnt they continue this early research, if it worked?
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Yes, but this is not what is needed. The Rossi device is inaccessible. An accessible and working device is needed to do LENR research. Defkalion says they will begin selling commercial quantities of these devices next year. This will make them available to do LENR research. I don't see what your problem is. it is possible that Defkalion is lying but I do not think that likely. We'll find out soon if they are. This is also what the LENR community needs to get scientific acknowledgement and official support. If commercial units are sold we will get more scientific acknowledgment and official support then we could possibly accrue by any other method. Rossi is correct about that. Money talks. Nothing is more convincing than commercial success. Defkalion's plans are by far the best way to ensure the success of cold fusion and garner official support. We have had more than 20 years of convincing experiments published in peer-reviewed journals. Yet they have not swayed the scientific establishment, the mass media, the DoE or the public. Researchers could go on publishing definitive experiments for another 100 years and it would not make any difference. After Defkalion cells a few hundred working reactors I guarantee that every industrial corporation and government on planet Earth will be working frantically on cold fusion. Robert Park and the Scientific American will lose all credibility on this issue. They and the other opponents will no longer be able to block progress. If they have a working and accessible experiment, then they can research this and when the process is scientifically understood, then they can develop something better than Rossi. Rossi will surely develop something better than what he now has. So will thousands of other researchers. Progress will be as swift as it was in the early days of aviation or semiconductors. But before any of this happens we need a triggering event in the best possible triggering event is commercial sales of working reactors. In my opinion, Rossi has wasted some time with his 1 MW reactor project. He has done some sloppy demonstrations and tests. But overall he has worked swiftly to commercialize this technology. He has probably done as good a job as anyone could under the circumstances, and a better job than any other cold fusion researcher. The delays in 2011 -- as frustrating as they are to us -- will not make any difference in the long-term view of history. I do highly doubt that NASA would want to use Rossis e-cats for space rockets. Why wouldn't they? The power and energy density is fantastic. I guarantee that in 20 years there will be no other type of space rocket, or automobile engine or generator . . . or electric pencil sharpener power supply, for that matter. They need something better and they need to understand and to calculate the devices that they use. What will prevent them from understanding this device? hundreds of thousands of people will soon be frantically discovering the nature of this machine. The secrets will not remain hidden for long. - Jed
