Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-06 Thread Kevin O'Malley
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2435697/posts

How I Made Money from Cold Fusion
Exclusive Article for Free Republic | 1/23/10 | Kevmo
Posted on 1/23/2010, 12:28:49 PM by Kevmo

Freeper gets a fascinating contract listed on Intrade, bets that the
experiment will be replicated, and cashes in.

In 2008, Dr. Yoshiaki Arata performed a fascinating experiment with
Deuterium Gas loaded onto a Palladium matrix, and without any input
power, showed that there was some excess heat. Generating excess heat
in cold fusion cell wasn't a new development -- scientists had been
replicating the Pons-Fleischman effect for 2 decades. What was a new
development was how easily replicable this particular experiment was.
It seemed to me that this would be the easiest way to replicate
anomalous heat production, removing the tired old standby excuse that
the energy input from electrolysis was causing this excess heat,
because there was NO energy input in this experiment. So I proposed to
Intrade that they open up a contract that this experiment would be
replicated in a peer reviewed, scientific Journal.

I also posted a discussion thread on the Intrade forum
http://bb.intrade.com/intradeForum/posts/list/2239.page

"This week, Dr. Yoshiaki Arata demonstrated Cold Fusion in a
reproducible environment. I sent in a suggestion to intrade that a
contract be opened up that it would be replicated in a peer-reviewed
journal by January 1, 2009. I haven't heard yet if there's any
interest."
AZoNano.com Energy Breakthrough as Japanese Physicist Sucessfully and ...
http://www.azonano.com/news.asp?newsID=6472

To my surprise, Intrade opened up this contract in 2008, where it
basically stagnated. Since I was not involved in the peer review
process, my assessment was that the experiment would only take several
weeks to make it through the grueling process, rather than several
months. It was actually someone at Free Republic who set me straight
on that:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2022063/posts?page=164#164

The contract closed at the end of 2008 at zero, meaning that anyone
who bet that the experiment would be replicated and published had lost
their bet.

I found the contract fascinating and asked Intrade to open a new
contract in 2009, which they did. A few months into 2009, there
started to be some replication experiments published by scientists,
but the whole process was outshined by Dr. Pamela Mossier-Boss
publishing her exciting results where she showed that there were
Neutrons being generated in the cold fusion cell at the Navy Space
Warfare Systems Center (SPAWAR).

'Cold Fusion' Rebirth? New Evidence For Existence Of Controversial
Energy Source
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090323110450.htm
ScienceDaily (Mar. 23, 2009) — [Researchers are reporting compelling
new scientific evidence for the existence of low-energy nuclear
reactions (LENR), the process once called "cold fusion" that may
promise a new source of energy. One group of scientists, for instance,
describes what it terms the first clear visual evidence that LENR
devices can produce neutrons, subatomic particles that scientists view
as tell-tale signs that nuclear reactions are occurring. The report,
which injects new life into this controversial field, will be
presented March 23 in Salt Lake City, Utah, at the American Chemical
Society's 237th National Meeting. "Our finding is very significant,"
says study co-author and analytical chemist Pamela Mosier-Boss, Ph.D.,
of the U.S. Navy's Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center (SPAWAR) in
San Diego, Calif. "To our knowledge, this is the first scientific
report of the production of highly energetic neutrons from an LENR
device."]

And then the CBS TV newsmagazine 60 Minutes chimed in with their
report on cold fusion on April 19, 2009, pushing the Arata replication
results further into the background. The video and an article
describing it are here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/17/60minutes/main4952167.shtml

I started posting references to replication of Arata's experiment in
the Intrade Forum, saying such things as, "Oh, and the experiment was
a replication of Arata's demonstration last May. So it was in
quantitative fact proof that Arata's demonstration worked as stated. "
>From the PhysOrg article and discussion:
'Cold fusion' rebirth? New evidence for existence of controversial
energy source
http://www.physorg.com/news157046734.html

I transferred as much money as I was willing to lose over to Intrade.
This was harder that I thought it would be, because Intrade does not
accept credit cards. I bought up as many contracts as I could, and
posted that I would pay $5-$6 for a contract that would pay out at
$100. In reality, it's paying 50-60Cents per contract, and the payout
is $10, for some bizarre reasoning that Intrade uses 1/10th of the
actual monetary figures. To my surprise, there were still folks at
Intrade posting that I was "Mental" , or as BobbyE wrote: "I have
trouble getting reality 

Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-03 Thread Teslaalset
Some rough calculations on Mizuno's R20 reactor from atomic perspective to
trigger further thoughts

(please, fill in any errors, assumptions and suggestions):


(1) Surplus heat @ 3KW: 2700W - Energy release 2700 W/s = 1.7 * 1022 eV


(2) Number of Deuterium atoms (n) in the reactor using ideal gas law PV =
nRT : n = PV/RT (mol)

P = 0.0002 (@ 200 P)

V = 5.7 liters (given by R20 cylinder)

R = 0.08314 (given constant)

T = 673 K ( given by 400 degrees C as an R20 estimate)


n = 0.00020374 mol Deuterium = 2.4449 * 1020 free atoms in reactor space.

Assuming that absorbed Deuterium atoms do not take part in the energy
generation, but serve as a 'gas reserve' that by means of an Deuterium
equilibrium will be released in reactor space due to gas pressure and/or
gas temperature changes.


Let's further assume that 1% of the free space atoms participate in energy
release at the surface of the PD/Ni mesh.

That would result in 100 *(1)/(2) = 7 KeV per participating atom. Not a
fusion result (would require several MeV/atom) if given assumptions would
be correct.

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 5:05 PM H LV  wrote:

> The battery (or Voltaic pile as it was originally named) proved to be an
> incredibley important discovery, but not in the way some people imagined.
> So much of our modern world depends on batteries.
>
> Harry
>
> On Tue., Jul. 2, 2019, 4:39 p.m. Jed Rothwell, 
> wrote:
>
>> H LV  wrote:
>>
>> When the electric battery was first discovered in the early 1800s and
>>> little was known about the phenomena, to some people it seemed like it
>>> could become the next great source of energy.  I think people should temper
>>> their commercial and scientific expectations when faced with the mystery of
>>> a new phenomena. Harry
>>>
>>
>> I think we now know enough about cold fusion to make informed speculation
>> about it. If the recent Mizuno experiment can be replicated, I think it
>> proves beyond question that the effect can be scaled up and made into a
>> commercially useful source of energy. It is only a matter of
>> engineering. It also shows that there is enough palladium in the world to
>> generate all the energy we need. I should explain that Mizuno has
>> projected that much higher power density is possible. We now know the
>> reaction can occur at high temperatures and high power density, and that it
>> can be controlled at least as well as a burning pile of coal or a fission
>> reactor core.
>>
>> When I wrote my book, I did not know whether cold fusion would ever
>> become a useful source of energy, or even whether it was possible to make
>> it practical. The book is predicated on the assumption that it can be made
>> practical, but that was speculation. I think we now know for sure that it
>> can be. It only has to be proved once, with one experiment, since the
>> effect itself has been widely replicated and there is no doubt it exists.
>>
>> It is possible there is such strong political opposition to cold fusion
>> it will never be developed. However we now know that it can be.
>>
>> It is true that people have sometimes overestimated the potential of new
>> technology, but I think more often they have underestimated it. People have
>> often underestimated by a gigantic margin. Some of these people were
>> experts who should have known better. In the 1970s the top managers at DEC
>> and other companies thought that microcomputers would never amount to much.
>> In the late 1990s, Paul Krugman thought that the Internet was not
>> important. Here is my favorite quote from an expert in transportation who
>> should have known better:
>>
>> Eighty-five percent of the horse-drawn vehicle industry of the country
>> is untouched by the automobile. In proof of the foregoing permit me to say
>> that in 1906-7, and coincident with an enormous demand for automobiles, the
>> demand for buggies reached the highest tide of its history. The man who
>> predicts the downfall of the automobile is a fool; the man who denies its
>> great necessity and general adoption for many uses is a bigger fool; and
>> the man who predicts the general annihilation of the horse and his
>> vehicle is the greatest fool of all.
>>
>> - The keynote speaker at the annual meeting of the National Association
>> of Carriage Builders in 1908, the year that Ford introduced the Model T
>>
>> From D. H. Sanders, "Computers in Business, An Introduction" (1968)
>>
>>
>>


Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-03 Thread H LV
The battery (or Voltaic pile as it was originally named) proved to be an
incredibley important discovery, but not in the way some people imagined.
So much of our modern world depends on batteries.

Harry

On Tue., Jul. 2, 2019, 4:39 p.m. Jed Rothwell, 
wrote:

> H LV  wrote:
>
> When the electric battery was first discovered in the early 1800s and
>> little was known about the phenomena, to some people it seemed like it
>> could become the next great source of energy.  I think people should temper
>> their commercial and scientific expectations when faced with the mystery of
>> a new phenomena. Harry
>>
>
> I think we now know enough about cold fusion to make informed speculation
> about it. If the recent Mizuno experiment can be replicated, I think it
> proves beyond question that the effect can be scaled up and made into a
> commercially useful source of energy. It is only a matter of
> engineering. It also shows that there is enough palladium in the world to
> generate all the energy we need. I should explain that Mizuno has
> projected that much higher power density is possible. We now know the
> reaction can occur at high temperatures and high power density, and that it
> can be controlled at least as well as a burning pile of coal or a fission
> reactor core.
>
> When I wrote my book, I did not know whether cold fusion would ever become
> a useful source of energy, or even whether it was possible to make it
> practical. The book is predicated on the assumption that it can be made
> practical, but that was speculation. I think we now know for sure that it
> can be. It only has to be proved once, with one experiment, since the
> effect itself has been widely replicated and there is no doubt it exists.
>
> It is possible there is such strong political opposition to cold fusion it
> will never be developed. However we now know that it can be.
>
> It is true that people have sometimes overestimated the potential of new
> technology, but I think more often they have underestimated it. People have
> often underestimated by a gigantic margin. Some of these people were
> experts who should have known better. In the 1970s the top managers at DEC
> and other companies thought that microcomputers would never amount to much.
> In the late 1990s, Paul Krugman thought that the Internet was not
> important. Here is my favorite quote from an expert in transportation who
> should have known better:
>
> Eighty-five percent of the horse-drawn vehicle industry of the country is
> untouched by the automobile. In proof of the foregoing permit me to say
> that in 1906-7, and coincident with an enormous demand for automobiles, the
> demand for buggies reached the highest tide of its history. The man who
> predicts the downfall of the automobile is a fool; the man who denies its
> great necessity and general adoption for many uses is a bigger fool; and
> the man who predicts the general annihilation of the horse and his
> vehicle is the greatest fool of all.
>
> - The keynote speaker at the annual meeting of the National Association of
> Carriage Builders in 1908, the year that Ford introduced the Model T
>
> From D. H. Sanders, "Computers in Business, An Introduction" (1968)
>
>
>


Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-03 Thread Jed Rothwell
JonesBeene  wrote:

If palladium is being consumed then the economics are much less favorable –
> even when the correct price is used… 
>

Yes. That is what I said in the book, on p. 35:

https://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusiona.pdf

Consumed or transmuted in secondary reactions. If it is transmuted, I hope
there is a way to tweak the reaction to prevent that or minimize it.

It is possible that some other metal can be substituted for palladium. Ed
Storms thanks the palladium works because it expands at a different rate
than nickel when it absorbs deuterium. He thinks this creates nanoscale
cracks in the nickel, which is where the reaction occurs. Perhaps some
other metal has that quality.

(The different expansion rates of the two metals that are bound together
reminds me of the way a bimetallic thermometer works.)


RE: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-03 Thread Chris Zell
Heat some Japanese homes with it.  Electricity and Kerosene must get expensive.



RE: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-03 Thread JonesBeene

From: Arnaud Kodeck

➢ You [Jed} are assuming that D + D gives He4. In the Mizuno reactor, we still 
don’t know exactly what is the reaction taking place there. It could be Ni + D 
-> Cu or Pd + D -> Ag. Let’s hope that that the Pd is not consumed in the 
Mizuno reactor otherwise all you plans in the cost for fuels felt apart.


This is perceptive. Mills has done so much work with nickel and at the same 
time - using the low pressure hydrogen regime  - that we can be almost certain 
that there is NO  nuclear fusion going on with the nickel. That narrows the 
possibilities considerably.

If palladium is being consumed then the economics are much less favorable – 
even when the correct price is used… 

The best of all worlds and actually the most likely scenario is that palladium 
is not consumed or consumed very slowly. Deuterium could be involved in some 
kind of BEC reaction, very much like the scenario of Miley and Hora involving a 
Coulomb explosion, or else Holmlid’s muons.  

They have the photon signature for this – and If they are correct, the 
deuterium is hardly consumed (possibly  less than in fusion). It would be easy 
for Mizuno to look for this signature.

Jones


RE: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-03 Thread Arnaud Kodeck
You are assuming that D + D gives He4. In the Mizuno reactor, we still don’t 
know exactly what is the reaction taking place there. It could be Ni + D -> Cu 
or Pd + D -> Ag. Let’s hope that that the Pd is not consumed in the Mizuno 
reactor otherwise all you plans in the cost for fuels felt apart.

 

From: Jed Rothwell  
Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 15:22
To: Vortex 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

 

JonesBeene mailto:jone...@pacbell.net> > wrote:

 

The first products will be the ones highest in commercial need for portable 
source of electricity, not heat. I doubt that mining cryptocurrency will be 
high enough in value as a niche market for any advanced energy generator. They 
only need cheap - nothing else overrides cheap for most markets. Deuterium and 
palladium will never be cheap.

 

Deuterium is far cheaper than any other fuel. High-purity heavy water costs 
about $1000 per kilogram, or $1/g. One gram produces as much energy as 523 
gallons of gasoline. At two dollars per gallon, that costs $1,046. See p. 33:

 

https://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusiona.pdf  

 

Most of the cost of heavy water is for the energy needed to extract it. It is 
also expensive because there is no demand for it and techniques for extracting 
it have not improved much since the 1950s. Extracting large amounts of heavy 
water with cold fusion energy will lower the cost by at least a factor of 10, 
so it will be roughly 10,000 times cheaper than gasoline.

 

 

As of now Pd is $1.40 per milligram but demand could push that up by a factor 
of 100 or more.

 

Palladium cost $50.27 per gram which is $0.05 per milligram. Roughly half of 
palladium is used in catalytic converters. These will not be needed with cold 
fusion, freeing up supplies. Mizuno's projections show that even a large 
generator will need only a few grams of palladium.

 

https://www.apmex.com/spotprices/palladium-price  

 



Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-03 Thread Jed Rothwell
JonesBeene  wrote:


> The first products will be the ones highest in commercial need for
> portable source of electricity, not heat. I doubt that mining
> cryptocurrency will be high enough in value as a niche market for any
> advanced energy generator. They only need cheap - nothing else overrides
> cheap for most markets. Deuterium and palladium will never be cheap.
>

Deuterium is far cheaper than any other fuel. High-purity heavy water costs
about $1000 per kilogram, or $1/g. One gram produces as much energy as 523
gallons of gasoline. At two dollars per gallon, that costs $1,046. See p.
33:

https://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusiona.pdf

Most of the cost of heavy water is for the energy needed to extract it. It
is also expensive because there is no demand for it and techniques for
extracting it have not improved much since the 1950s. Extracting large
amounts of heavy water with cold fusion energy will lower the cost by at
least a factor of 10, so it will be roughly 10,000 times cheaper than
gasoline.



> As of now Pd is $1.40 per milligram but demand could push that up by a
> factor of 100 or more.
>

Palladium cost $50.27 per gram which is $0.05 per milligram. Roughly half
of palladium is used in catalytic converters. These will not be needed with
cold fusion, freeing up supplies. Mizuno's projections show that even a
large generator will need only a few grams of palladium.

https://www.apmex.com/spotprices/palladium-price


RE: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-02 Thread JonesBeene
With a COP of 10 -  if (IF!) that lofty goal is really possible on a continuous 
level, this is perhaps the first time that it makes sense to look at the 
potential end markets which can return the most, the soonest; and thereafter to 
 plan ahead with a form factor in mind that suits that particular market – 
possibly in the range of a few kilowatts of electric power. 

The first products will be the ones highest in commercial need for portable 
source of electricity, not heat. I doubt that mining cryptocurrency will be 
high enough in value as a niche market for any advanced energy generator. They 
only need cheap - nothing else overrides cheap for most markets. Deuterium and 
palladium will never be cheap. 

Palladium being extremely rare (.015 ppm in earth crust) could skyrocket in 
price with even small increase in demand -  so even if deuterium went down, 
capital cost due to palladium could be an issue.  As of now Pd is $1.40 per 
milligram but demand could push that up by a factor of 100 or more. Diamonds 
can cost up to $200 per mg (small ones about $5/mg) and yet are ~100 times more 
plentiful in nature than palladium.

Perhaps the highest value applications -  and I suspect the first to be 
commercialized – will be in aerospace. Drone power is a perfect market. Imagine 
a communication drone which stays aloft for months at a time. The smallest 
might require a few kilowatts electric and have a solar contribution.

If the Mizuno “hearth” unit can be engineered to produce 3 kw continuous heat, 
and a Stirling or ORC converter can get  33% conversion into electric, then the 
1 kw of output would be reduced by the 300 watts input for 700 useful output. 
The optimal drone for communications use would probably need 2-3 times as much, 
some of which can come from solar panels on the wings.

It is possible that the Mizuno device could engineered rapidly for aerospace 
drone use with a return on investment which is far greater than any kind of 
heater. If a continuous high output required 200 mg of palladium per unit, then 
even a huge price jump in the metal would be tolerable given the value to the 
market and our insatiable demand for information transfer.

With the continued growth in solar and wind in most of the World  – having one 
of these to heat the home just ain’t gonna happen anytime soon - except for 
maybe Gates and Bezos. 












Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-02 Thread Jed Rothwell
H LV  wrote:

When the electric battery was first discovered in the early 1800s and
> little was known about the phenomena, to some people it seemed like it
> could become the next great source of energy.  I think people should temper
> their commercial and scientific expectations when faced with the mystery of
> a new phenomena. Harry
>

I think we now know enough about cold fusion to make informed speculation
about it. If the recent Mizuno experiment can be replicated, I think it
proves beyond question that the effect can be scaled up and made into a
commercially useful source of energy. It is only a matter of
engineering. It also shows that there is enough palladium in the world to
generate all the energy we need. I should explain that Mizuno has
projected that much higher power density is possible. We now know the
reaction can occur at high temperatures and high power density, and that it
can be controlled at least as well as a burning pile of coal or a fission
reactor core.

When I wrote my book, I did not know whether cold fusion would ever become
a useful source of energy, or even whether it was possible to make it
practical. The book is predicated on the assumption that it can be made
practical, but that was speculation. I think we now know for sure that it
can be. It only has to be proved once, with one experiment, since the
effect itself has been widely replicated and there is no doubt it exists.

It is possible there is such strong political opposition to cold fusion it
will never be developed. However we now know that it can be.

It is true that people have sometimes overestimated the potential of new
technology, but I think more often they have underestimated it. People have
often underestimated by a gigantic margin. Some of these people were
experts who should have known better. In the 1970s the top managers at DEC
and other companies thought that microcomputers would never amount to much.
In the late 1990s, Paul Krugman thought that the Internet was not
important. Here is my favorite quote from an expert in transportation who
should have known better:

Eighty-five percent of the horse-drawn vehicle industry of the country is
untouched by the automobile. In proof of the foregoing permit me to say
that in 1906-7, and coincident with an enormous demand for automobiles, the
demand for buggies reached the highest tide of its history. The man who
predicts the downfall of the automobile is a fool; the man who denies its
great necessity and general adoption for many uses is a bigger fool; and
the man who predicts the general annihilation of the horse and his vehicle
is the greatest fool of all.

- The keynote speaker at the annual meeting of the National Association of
Carriage Builders in 1908, the year that Ford introduced the Model T

>From D. H. Sanders, "Computers in Business, An Introduction" (1968)


Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-02 Thread H LV
When the electric battery was first discovered in the early 1800s and
little was known about the phenomena, to some people it seemed like it
could become the next great source of energy.  I think people should temper
their commercial and scientific expectations when faced with the mystery of
a new phenomena. Harry



>


Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-02 Thread Jed Rothwell
Esa Ruoho  wrote:

You could always sell/rent a cold fusion-based diesel-aggregator
> replacement to a bunch of electronic music hippies. or other types of
> festivals, too.
>

Seriously, that kind of thing would never make any money. I am sure it will
take billions of dollars to develop cold fusion into a practical source of
energy. Maybe tens of billions. It took $1 billion to develop the
Prius. Compared to cold fusion that was a minor incremental improvement to
existing technology. I am sure that only major industrial corporations can
develop cold fusion into a practical and safe form of energy. They will
have to find ways to earn back that investment. Tapping into a $6 trillion
per year market will eventually earn them hundreds of billions of dollars a
year, possibly trillions of dollars. That is the only way to make a
reasonable return on the investment.

Some of the cold fusion researchers have thought about how to make money.
They often come up with penny ante plans similar to this one. They have
no concept of how difficult it will be to develop, and on the other side
they have no concept of how much money can be earned with it. I recall that
Les Case wanted to keep cold fusion secret. He had a ridiculous scheme that
involved land in Australia. As I recall he wanted to irrigate it, grow
grapes, make wine, and sell the wine to make a profit. Something like
that. He would have an edge because he was irrigating with cold fusion. Why
he would want to hide the cold fusion aspect of it I do not know. It was
crazy.

Patterson wanted a 100% market share. That's crazy too. Why would anyone
insist on getting 100% of a $6 trillion market? He died with 100% of
nothing. That was inevitable.

I am sure that large corporations will spend the money to develop this, no
matter what it costs. Even $100 billion would be a small amount compared to
the profits they will make.

- Jed


Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-02 Thread Esa Ruoho
You could always sell/rent a cold fusion-based diesel-aggregator
replacement to a bunch of electronic music hippies. or other types of
festivals, too. I'm sure they'd be only too happy to power their festivals
with non-polluting electricity production methods.



On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 18:02, Robert McKay  wrote:

> On 2019-07-02 02:28, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> > So, how do you make this money? Not by trying to sell energy! That is
> > a highly regulated industry. It is a difficult and complex business.
>
> Mine cryptocurrency.. if someone can figure out how to generate
> electricity, mining machines can consume as much of it as can be
> produced.. not $1000/mo but $millions per month, actually the only limit
> would be obtaining enough mining hardware.
>
> If you generate electricity in-house and burn it on crypto, you're also
> avoiding paying any VAT on the electricity, which might be beneficial..
>
> Rob
>
>

-- 
http://linkedin.com/in/esaruoho // http://twitter.com/esaruoho //
http://lackluster.bandcamp.com //
+358403703659 // http://lackluster.org // skype:esajuhaniruoho // iMessage
esaru...@gmail.com //
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http://facebook.com/LacklusterOfficial //


Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-02 Thread Jed Rothwell
Robert McKay  wrote:


> > So, how do you make this money? Not by trying to sell energy! That is
> > a highly regulated industry. It is a difficult and complex business.
>
>

> Mine cryptocurrency..


I *hate* that stuff!

You may have a good point. That might be a good way to make money with cold
fusion. But I still hate that stuff!


Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-02 Thread Robert McKay

On 2019-07-02 02:28, Jed Rothwell wrote:

So, how do you make this money? Not by trying to sell energy! That is
a highly regulated industry. It is a difficult and complex business.


Mine cryptocurrency.. if someone can figure out how to generate 
electricity, mining machines can consume as much of it as can be 
produced.. not $1000/mo but $millions per month, actually the only limit 
would be obtaining enough mining hardware.


If you generate electricity in-house and burn it on crypto, you're also 
avoiding paying any VAT on the electricity, which might be beneficial..


Rob



Re: [Vo]:How to make money with cold fusion

2019-07-02 Thread Lennart Thornros
After reading the recipe for how to make money, I better understand how
difficult it is.
Business is not predictable this way. There are many more ingredients
before this money dish is consumable.
Lennart

On Mon, Jul 1, 2019, 21:29 Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> The world energy market is roughly $6 trillion per year:
>
>
> https://www.enerdata.net/publications/executive-briefing/world-energy-expenditures.html
>
> $1.8 trillion per year is invested in energy, in things like digging
> wells, R, erecting wind towers and so on.
>
> That is the pot of money you can tap into with cold fusion. $1.8 trillion
> is the amount people will be willing to invest in cold fusion R per year,
> once it becomes clear that cold fusion will become a practical source of
> energy. $6 trillion per year is how much money you can divert from the oil,
> gas and coal companies earnings into your own pocket if you succeed in
> commercializing it. Not overnight, but in a remarkably short time. Roughly
> the time it took automobiles to replace most horses, which was from 1908
> when the Model T was introduced, to 1928.
>
> So, how do you make this money? Not by trying to sell energy! That is a
> highly regulated industry. It is a difficult and complex business. The way
> to make money is to sell equipment. You gradually divert the earnings of
> energy industry into earnings by you. Many companies are already doing
> this, by selling machines with improved efficiency. Suppose you make an
> efficient water heater.  You can sell it at a premium, and make more
> profit. The customer is willing to pay more because it reduces the natural
> gas bill and saves money overall.
>
> The average water heater costs $55 a month in gas. Suppose the customer
> ends up paying you $10 month more for your heater, but he saves $20 a month
> in gas. In effect, you are reducing the gas company's earnings by $20, and
> splitting the money between you and your customer.
>
> The potential is greater with cold fusion, because you eliminate the
> entire cost of fuel. You and the customer spit the $55; the gas company
> loses the whole amount.
>
> It is even more attractive for big ticket equipment. If an apartment
> complex pays $1000 a month for the gas space heating, you sell them a
> heater that costs about $500 a month more than a gas heater. The natural
> gas company loses $1000, you and the customer each make $500. After 20
> years the equipment wears out and you sell a replacement. It is a steady
> stream of income. It is siphoned off from a $6 trillion pot of money, so
> there is plenty more money to grab. There is no way the energy companies
> can compete or under-price you.
>
> This is not a one-time profit. It is a steady stream of income, because
> the equipment wears out and must be replaced.
>
> In real life you have competition, and as you gradually wear away at gas,
> oil and coal company earnings, they lower their costs, and the amount left
> on the table decreases. But in principle, that is how it works.
>
> This only works out well if the cold fusion apartment complex space heater
> costs roughly as much to manufacture as a gas-fired heater. I think it
> will, because it is not particularly complicated and the materials are not
> rare. For the most part, it consists of pumps, thermostats and whatnot that
> are the same as the ones in a gas-fired or electric heater. Once the
> technology matures, there is no reason to think it will cost more. But you
> can *sell it* for much more, with much larger profits. The customer will
> be happy to pay more, because it eliminates the cost of fuel. Over the life
> of the machine, the fuel costs more than the equipment. So you have a
> tremendous potential profit margin. If the customer cannot afford the
> up-front cost, you can arrange for leasing. As long as it ends up costing
> substantially less per month, the customer will be happy. As old gas-fired
> equipment wears out, your equipment gradually replaces gas fired heaters.
> Then as your equipment wears out, you keep selling cold fusion heaters.
>
> To reiterate, the money goes from the natural gas company into your
> pocket, and into the customer's pocket, even though you are not selling
> energy *per se*. The amount of money waiting for you to tap into and
> transfer is $6 trillion per year. That is the most lucrative business
> opportunity in history. Every industrial company will understand that the
> first day it becomes generally known that cold fusion is real. They will
> soon be spending billions of dollars per year to develop it, just as they
> are now spending billions to develop self-driving cars.
>
>