Re: [Vo]:Interesting link at NASA
On Thu, 2012-01-12 at 12:33 -0800, Bill Traweek wrote: I notice that on slide 11 they used a Hydrogen purification system as a proxy for PF's electrolytic cell. I also notice that the Palladium membrane is heated with a heater. I wonder if Rossi's heater is for a related purpose to the process. http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/sensors/PhySen/docs/LENR_at_GRC_2011.pdf This message you posted to Vortex has a 'reply-to' field to you, and not to Vortex. Other responses may not have come to the list. I haven't heard of a hydrogen purifier being used before. From the description, it appears as if the purifier is simply a substitute for a palladium electrolytic cell, meaning that as a consequence of purifying hydrogen or deuterium with this purifier, you end up with a loaded palladium lattice. They then add deuterium gas at high pressure, and subsequently see the Pons-Fleishmann effect. McKubre noted back in the 90s that the Pons-Fleishmann effect can be directly correlated to the degree to which the palladium lattice is loaded. Compared to hydrogen gas as the experimental control: 15°C increase in purifier temperature consistently seen with D2 that was not seen with the H2 control when gasses were unloaded from the purifier. Craig
RE: [Vo]:Interesting link at NASA
-Original Message- From: Craig Haynie McKubre noted back in the 90s that the Pons-Fleishmann effect [deuterium] can be directly correlated to the degree to which the palladium lattice is loaded [with deuterium]. Compared to hydrogen gas as the experimental control: 15°C increase in purifier temperature consistently seen with D2 that was not seen with the H2 control when gasses were unloaded from the purifier. Yes, this raises a number of continually neglected, or misinterpreted points. Is there a rationale underlying the apparent conflicts below ? To summarize most (but not all) experiments using different metals and either Ni, Pd, or alloys with either protium or deuterium: 1) Palladium works well with deuterium, but not with hydrogen. Does not need to be nano, but micro cracking helps. Hydrogen has been used as a control. 2) Nickel alone works slightly, or not at all, with either D or H, but when reduced to nano works better with hydrogen than deuterium. 3) Nickel when used with a catalyst (Thermacore) works well with hydrogen, even when non-nano. Deuterium was not tried AFAIK. Thermacore reported about double the heat per unit of surface area that Rossi reports. 3) Nickel can be both alloyed, especially with copper, and reduced to nano and THEN will work MUCH better with hydrogen than deuterium. Rossi claims to quench the reaction with deuterium. These findings are not necessarily in conflict when you consider the vast differences in physical properties between deuterium and hydrogen. Otherwise, palladium and nickel are very similar in properties - and the vastly increased surface area of nano makes a huge difference with nickel. This may indicate that Ni-H reactions are surface reactions, where as Pd-D is not as dependent on maximized surface, but it helps. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Interesting link at NASA
Craig, The purifier should be a vast improvement over electrolytic cell since you don’t need to electrolyze hydrogen out of the water although the “impure” gas being fed in obviously could be HHO from electrolysis. I originally had a Pd membrane wall on the left side of this animation http://www.byzipp.com/sun30.swf but deleted it during one of the iterations. I was more interested in demonstrating the atoms response to the Casimir geometry [Taking on factional / Rydberg states]. I simplified the atom to a radius to avoid the electrons presence or lack thereof. In a fuel cell the electron travels externally but immediately recombines on the far side of the membrane when the proton exits the lattice. I think the electrons presence while passing through defects inside the lattice may be very much involved in this anomaly – the question of how “nearby” electrons in the geometric boundaries of the Ni are related to the naked hydrogen protons in voids of defect cavities may relate to fractional / Rydberg states many researchers claim are required for this anomaly. For myself I adopted Naudts paper describing the hydrino as “relativistic” but in an “equivalent” manner similar to gravity where Casimir effect can break the isotropy at the nano scale in a much more abrupt and dynamic manner than the gravitational gradients we are familiar with on the macro scale. It is my posit this dynamic change in “equivalent” acceleration is behind all catalytic action and is what discounts the disassociation of h2 courtesy of sudden change in Casimir geometry – changes the suppression level which limits the size of virtual particles in the region between parallel geometries in the cavity. The latest NASA video seems to indicate these Ni boundaries may also have surface areas full of free electrons capable of plasmonic current –I’m ok with that – yet another way to describe the same? Fran From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 10:39 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Interesting link at NASA Craig Haynie wrote: I haven't heard of a hydrogen purifier being used before. From the description, it appears as if the purifier is simply a substitute for a palladium electrolytic cell . . . That's right. The people at BARC did a similar experiment. See: Krishnan, M.S., et al., Cold Fusion Experiments Using a Commercial Pd-Ni Electrolyser, in BARC Studies in Cold Fusion, P.K. Iyengar and M. Srinivasan, Editors. 1989, Atomic Energy Commission: Bombay. p. A 1. http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KrishnanMScoldfusion.pdf - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Interesting link at NASA
In reply to Roarty, Francis X's message of Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:17:50 -0500: Hi, [snip] Craig, The purifier should be a vast improvement over electrolytic cell since you dont need to electrolyze hydrogen out of the water although the impure gas being fed in obviously could be HHO from electrolysis. I would be very careful with this. I think the Pd would act as a recombiner for the HHO, and you could get an explosion. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Interesting link at NASA : NYTEKNIK
Mats Lewan reports at TV:NASA confirms research in LENR http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3384163.ece .. Ny Teknik contacted NASAs chief scientist, Dr. Dennis Bushnell, who previously has expressed support for LENR, but he declined to give any official comments on the video or to NASAs research in LENR Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, a more general term for the phenomenon that used to be called cold fusion. Dr. Bushnells only comment was: The video pertains to the potential tech transfer aspects of the Zawodny LENR Patent. ... (Comments on a lot of the latest news.)
RE:[Vo]:Interesting link at NASA
Wow - they went straight from their latest 2011 tests on gas loading [I didn't see any results listed] to a proposed engine tests at Sterling lab in Cleveland - in the pdf they show what appears to be separate crank cases for a compressor piston on one end of reactor- cylinder and an expander compressor mounted on opposite end of reactor-cylinder... I guess this maximizes the permutations of pressure and temperature to force this anomaly into the light. I guess this could be considered a 1 cylinder implementation of the Papp or Spice engine but more as a test bed where they can better manipulate conditions. Fran From: Randall Fink [mailto:randylf...@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 9:51 AM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Interesting link at NASA http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/sensors/PhySen/docs/LENR_at_GRC_2011.pdf
Re: [Vo]:Interesting link at NASA
is it new. I remember seeing a paragraph on lenr (as real) there http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/sensors/PhySen/research.htm but I don't remenber of the attached PDF? is it new? (maybe is it alzheimer for me?) 2012/1/12 Randall Fink randylf...@comcast.net ** http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/sensors/PhySen/docs/LENR_at_GRC_2011.pdf
Re: [Vo]:Interesting link at NASA
On 2012-01-12 16:51, Alain Sepeda wrote: is it new? (maybe is it alzheimer for me?) Not really. It first appeared on the internal NASA document search engine a few months ago, but got soon removed after it went popular due to coverage by 22passi blog (through suggestion by Francesco Celani). Then a few weeks ago it reappeared as a downloadable PDF in the page above. Cheers, S.A.
