Re: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[H LV]

This is where we should be headed, rather than more privately owned cars
with a different motor.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/05/luxembourg-to-become-first-country-to-make-all-public-transport-free

On Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 9:50 AM Jones Beene 
>
>  Terry Blanton wrote:
>
>
> How many vorts have driven a Tesla?  Raise your hands.  That's what I
> thought.
>
> It's a different driving experience.  And it's free to try at a dealer
> near you.
>
> Remember the rotary "dial" wired phones...
>
> 
>
>
> Here are the top 10 reasons not to buy a Tesla  
>
> (not to be taken at face value but the humor will be lost on a few)
>
> 10 Reasons To Not Buy A Tesla — Seriously | CleanTechnica
> 
>
> 10 Reasons To Not Buy A Tesla — Seriously | CleanTechnica
>
> Tesla's are all the rage. There are many reasons to buy a Tesla, but there
> are two sides to every story. Below a...
>
> 
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[Terry Blanton]

On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 9:50 AM Jones Beene  wrote:

> Here are the top 10 reasons not to buy a Tesla  
>

That was good.  Well, I could but I don't own one.  Why?  It's simply not
cost effective.  Now, I don't know what the current cost of carbon is; but,
excluding that, well...look at this:

https://youtu.be/x0MjZOR89Fk

I do own a smartphone; but, like my Scion xB, it's a reasonably priced fun,
LG K8V.  But, I'm an engineer.

My wife, on the other hand, a retired Underwriter, has a $1k Samsung and
drives a Lexus SUV.

And she is bugging the hell out of me for a Model S.


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[Jones Beene]

 

  Terry Blanton wrote: 
 
 How many vorts have driven a Tesla?  Raise your hands.  That's what I thought.
It's a different driving experience.  And it's free to try at a dealer near you.
Remember the rotary "dial" wired phones...



Here are the top 10 reasons not to buy a Tesla  
(not to be taken at face value but the humor will be lost on a few)

10 Reasons To Not Buy A Tesla — Seriously | CleanTechnica

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
10 Reasons To Not Buy A Tesla — Seriously | CleanTechnica

Tesla's are all the rage. There are many reasons to buy a Tesla, but there are 
two sides to every story. Below a...
 |

 |

 |



  

RE: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

I have.  My daughter has one.. They have lots of curb appeal.   She had me test 
drive it before she bought—a year ago with a large down payment.  Delivery came 
in September.

Is a great car—non other like it.

Bob Cook

From: Terry Blanton<mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2018 6:01 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

How many vorts have driven a Tesla?  Raise your hands.  That's what I thought.

It's a different driving experience.  And it's free to try at a dealer near you.

Remember the rotary "dial" wired phones.  A Tesla is compares like a smart 
phone.

My granddaughter: "Pop, why do we say 'Dial the number?'"  :)

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 8:54 PM Terry Blanton 
mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:17 AM Jones Beene 
mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>> wrote:
It would not surprise any expert if takes a decade or more for electric car 
production to reach parity with carbon burning - and that may never happen 
without incentives.

This incentive will help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_banning_fossil_fuel_vehicles   
then

Double the energy density and cut the cost of storage by 50% and watch how 
quickly the ICE melts.

Re: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[Terry Blanton]

How many vorts have driven a Tesla?  Raise your hands.  That's what I
thought.

It's a different driving experience.  And it's free to try at a dealer near
you.

Remember the rotary "dial" wired phones.  A Tesla is compares like a smart
phone.

My granddaughter: "Pop, why do we say 'Dial the number?'"  :)

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 8:54 PM Terry Blanton  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:17 AM Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> It would not surprise any expert if takes a decade or more for electric
>> car production to reach parity with carbon burning - and that may never
>> happen without incentives.
>>
>
> This incentive will help:
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_banning_fossil_fuel_vehicles
>  then
>
> Double the energy density and cut the cost of storage by 50% and watch how
> quickly the ICE melts.
>

Re: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[Terry Blanton]

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:17 AM Jones Beene  wrote:

> It would not surprise any expert if takes a decade or more for electric
> car production to reach parity with carbon burning - and that may never
> happen without incentives.
>

This incentive will help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_banning_fossil_fuel_vehicles
 then

Double the energy density and cut the cost of storage by 50% and watch how
quickly the ICE melts.

Re: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[Jones Beene]

 The ICE may be on the way out - that much is true... at least in principle and 
over the long horizon. But few of us will be around to witness this.

My guess is that (like it or not) the demise of hydrocarbon fueled vehicles 
will be long and protracted and may require 50 years or more. In fact, the next 
big advance could surprise all the experts. 

The Manelas device is a contender - but there is way too little data to make 
any kind of real world prediction (other than it would provide free air 
conditioning - which means that almost every vehicle produced would need one 
for that purpose alone). 

Another alternative, with less of a data-gap is hydrogen fuel. If (big IF) the 
advances in photo-catalyzed water-splitting were not as hyped up as they are - 
then the ICE could easily enjoy a second life burning H2 in either a converted 
ICE or in the fuel cell.

Hydrogen fueled vehicles could cost less than battery power - given lithium and 
cobalt shortages. And the fuel cell, always overhyped - has never been free of 
a need for platinum so the trusty old piston engine could be around for a long, 
long time. Plus, even LENR technology (or Mills/Holmlid etc), if it is ever 
commercialized - may involve splitting water with high enough efficiency to 
envision the water-car of legend. The on-board water splitter is coupled with 
an ICE and genset. Again, the fuel cell may not be the best option.

In 2019 the estimates are for the worldwide auto production of 17 million 
vehicles of which less than one million will be plug-in electric. That depends 
on tax incentives, which are phasing out and are unlikely to be fully renewed 
in the USA. 

It would not surprise any expert if takes a decade or more for electric car 
production to reach parity with carbon burning - and that may never happen 
without incentives.

    Brian Ahern wrote:  
 I agree with Bob. The Manelas Device development will represent a fundamental 
change in transportation.From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com 


 

The ICE is a short-lived feature of transportation technology—with a half -life 
of ½ that of horses when it came on the scene early in the 1900’s replacing the 
horses.  It will only carry on as an antique power source with minimal-to-no 
technological improvements.  

 

   

Re: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[Brian Ahern]

I agree with Bob. The Manelas Device development will represent a fundamental 
change in transportation.

From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 1:58 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany


Jones—



The ICE is a short-lived feature of transportation technology—with a half -life 
of ½ that of horses when it came on the scene early in the 1900’s replacing the 
horses.  It will only carry on as an antique power source with

minimal-to-no technological improvements.



The modern ICE technology is too hard to maintain and will not catch on in the 
vast majority of the undeveloped societies.  Even in developed western society, 
it will be considered “old fashioned” and without curb appeal.



IMHO direct electrical energy production from non-chemical potential energy 
sources will arrive quickly with the assistance of AI in the engineering.



The normal short term view point of entrepreneurs will not provide productive 
results with AI in the technology circus.



Bob Cook







The





fRom: Jones Beene<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 7:45 AM
To: Vortex-l<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany





German technology claiming 30% improvement in mileage using microwaves instead 
of spark for fuel ignition.



https://mwi-ag.com/technik/?lang=en<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmwi-ag.com%2Ftechnik%2F%3Flang%3Den=02%7C01%7C%7C8e92f7b3ec5c483d2e8508d668418ca9%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636811028074613374=8yDv0PjrV0uqx3KuTBoBy1Y50lm9YtSNcGGDE79i83o%3D=0>



Ex-Porsche CEO thinks microwave ignition can save the combustion 
engine<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoblog.com%2F2018%2F12%2F13%2Fmicrowave-ignition-ex-porsche-ceo%2F=02%7C01%7C%7C8e92f7b3ec5c483d2e8508d668418ca9%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636811028074613374=wDFWfcZqpkYDPyqhs1v8%2BjE17SL0AXICgUHEGanU7z8%3D=0>






[https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/YvM2J4eFXPt5YISfbrnDYA--~A/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTQwMDtoPTIwMDthcHBpZD1pZXh0cmFjdA--/https:/o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/crop/2560x1440+0+0/resize/800x450!/format/jpg/quality/85/https:/s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2018-12/02a53260-fefa-11e8-afff-4152a07343cf.cf.jpg]




[- Description: 
https://s.yimg.com/cv/ae/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV21/1/enhancr_gradient-400x175.png]




Ex-Porsche CEO thinks microwave ignition can save the combustion engine

The tech cuts emissions by up to 80 percent.








For many years on Vortex there has been occasional mention of generating and 
using microwaves to power an ICE with no fuel - just air. There had been a 
claim from an inventor and also mention of this by our moderator - that 
microwaves could be gainful in some unknown way - presumably by oxidizing 
nitrogen to form NOx which of course is not a good thing... not to mention, it 
isn't gainful either (on paper)



... but as always "experiment rules"...



Maybe the Porche CEO knows something we don't... or maybe he is a lurker here 

Re: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Sat, 22 Dec 2018 22:49:20 + (UTC):
Hi Jones,
[snip]
> 
>Hi Robin,
>The main problem with that is that every ICE burning any kind of petrol - at 
>the moment following ignition - is completely loaded with hot steam ions under 
>high pressure.
>
>If hydrinos could be made as simply as you suggest - then every car engine 
>should be producing them as a matter of course, and consequently every engine 
>should be more efficient than they actually are. Few exceed 30%

...maybe the 30% is because they are producing some Hydrinos. IOW without
Hydrino production they might be even less efficient. ;)

>
>The cynic might suggest that microwave input is not going to make much 
>difference even with fuel and the "microwave mower" is delusional.

You might be right. :)

>
>OTOH it would be instructive to see if the addition of another Mills catalyst 
>into a standard ICE would increase efficiency by converting a bit more of the 
>hydrogen into hydrinos. A small helium or argon addition would be interesting.

Yes, there is already about 1% Argon in the air, but I don't think Argon is a
very good catalyst, so there probably isn't enough. 
Also, in a normal spark ignited engine, the spark current might be too low to
produce many ions, but you are correct, there should be plenty of water vapor,
and but perhaps not enough Hydrogen? That could be where microwaves would make a
difference.

[snip]
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[Jones Beene]

 
Hi Robin,
The main problem with that is that every ICE burning any kind of petrol - at 
the moment following ignition - is completely loaded with hot steam ions under 
high pressure.

If hydrinos could be made as simply as you suggest - then every car engine 
should be producing them as a matter of course, and consequently every engine 
should be more efficient than they actually are. Few exceed 30%

The cynic might suggest that microwave input is not going to make much 
difference even with fuel and the "microwave mower" is delusional.

OTOH it would be instructive to see if the addition of another Mills catalyst 
into a standard ICE would increase efficiency by converting a bit more of the 
hydrogen into hydrinos. A small helium or argon addition would be interesting.
Jones



>For many years on Vortex there has been occasional mention of generating and 
>using microwaves to power an ICE with no fuel - just air. There had been a 
>claim from an inventor and also mention of this by our moderator - that 
>microwaves could be gainful in some unknown way - presumably by oxidizing 
>nitrogen to form NOx which of course is not a good thing... not to mention, it 
>isn't gainful either (on paper)
>... but as always "experiment rules"...
>
>Maybe the Porsche CEO knows something we don't... or maybe he is a lurker here 
>
IMO the most likely explanation is that microwaves ionize lots of atoms and
molecules producing a "soup". In that soup, you will find both water molecules
and hydrogen atoms. IOW Hydrinos get produced releasing about 200 eV / Hydrino,
which is roughly 70 times what is required to split a water molecule.

In short this is likely to work best in very warm, humid air or, if you have the
skill to set it up, when the ICE runs on steam, with a microwave ignition.

The resulting fast particles and UV from the Hydrino reactions further help to
create more fuel from water.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success
  

Re: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Sat, 22 Dec 2018 15:44:47 + (UTC):
Hi,
[snip]
>For many years on Vortex there has been occasional mention of generating and 
>using microwaves to power an ICE with no fuel - just air. There had been a 
>claim from an inventor and also mention of this by our moderator - that 
>microwaves could be gainful in some unknown way - presumably by oxidizing 
>nitrogen to form NOx which of course is not a good thing... not to mention, it 
>isn't gainful either (on paper)
>... but as always "experiment rules"...
>
>Maybe the Porche CEO knows something we don't... or maybe he is a lurker here 
>

IMO the most likely explanation is that microwaves ionize lots of atoms and
molecules producing a "soup". In that soup, you will find both water molecules
and hydrogen atoms. IOW Hydrinos get produced releasing about 200 eV / Hydrino,
which is roughly 70 times what is required to split a water molecule.

In short this is likely to work best in very warm, humid air or, if you have the
skill to set it up, when the ICE runs on steam, with a microwave ignition.

The resulting fast particles and UV from the Hydrino reactions further help to
create more fuel from water.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

RE: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jones—

The ICE is a short-lived feature of transportation technology—with a half -life 
of ½ that of horses when it came on the scene early in the 1900’s replacing the 
horses.  It will only carry on as an antique power source with
minimal-to-no technological improvements.

The modern ICE technology is too hard to maintain and will not catch on in the 
vast majority of the undeveloped societies.  Even in developed western society, 
it will be considered “old fashioned” and without curb appeal.

IMHO direct electrical energy production from non-chemical potential energy 
sources will arrive quickly with the assistance of AI in the engineering.

The normal short term view point of entrepreneurs will not provide productive 
results with AI in the technology circus.

Bob Cook



The


fRom: Jones Beene
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 7:45 AM
To: Vortex-l
Subject: [Vo]:Microwave ignition - From Germany


German technology claiming 30% improvement in mileage using microwaves instead 
of spark for fuel ignition.

https://mwi-ag.com/technik/?lang=en

Ex-Porsche CEO thinks microwave ignition can save the combustion 
engine




[https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/YvM2J4eFXPt5YISfbrnDYA--~A/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTQwMDtoPTIwMDthcHBpZD1pZXh0cmFjdA--/https:/o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/crop/2560x1440+0+0/resize/800x450!/format/jpg/quality/85/https:/s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2018-12/02a53260-fefa-11e8-afff-4152a07343cf.cf.jpg]


[- Description: 
https://s.yimg.com/cv/ae/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV21/1/enhancr_gradient-400x175.png]



Ex-Porsche CEO thinks microwave ignition can save the combustion engine

The tech cuts emissions by up to 80 percent.





For many years on Vortex there has been occasional mention of generating and 
using microwaves to power an ICE with no fuel - just air. There had been a 
claim from an inventor and also mention of this by our moderator - that 
microwaves could be gainful in some unknown way - presumably by oxidizing 
nitrogen to form NOx which of course is not a good thing... not to mention, it 
isn't gainful either (on paper)

... but as always "experiment rules"...

Maybe the Porche CEO knows something we don't... or maybe he is a lurker here