Re: [vos-d] [x3d-public] SMAM: request for avatar selection page developer
On 16/05/07, S Mattison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Aw, and here I can code in PHP and MySQL and there's already a Flux Server out there that does it? Hm. Oh well! actually, that's the type of thing we need. The flux server will then get the url etc from the database. chris ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d -- http://www.planet-earth.org http://ping.com.au http://systemic.com.au http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html -- It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] [x3d-public] SMAM: request for avatar selection page developer
Aw, and here I can code in PHP and MySQL and there's already a Flux Server out there that does it? Hm. Oh well! ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] [x3d-public] SMAM: request for avatar selection page developer
On 15/05/07, Jay C. Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: chris wrote: > Hi again, for the event we will need a page ppl can go to to select > their av and enter the world. The avatars available will be the ones > tested and proven for the event. > > The catch is that this page will have to have a back end part that > communicates the use id and avatar id to a server. There are many ways > we can do this, from writing to a file (which server code can read), > database or sending over the network. I don't want to use a database > just for the event so file or comms are the choices. FWIW, the Flux server already has code to get the avatar url from a mysql database, based on a user-id. I think it should compile on most Linux systems because these days they include the mysql C library as well as mysql itself. The user-id is sent to the server through the Connection node in the X3D file. I've used the SAI to set that field from an HTML wrapper, which takes the value out of a browser cookie, which in turn is set by the login page. k, I'll try downloading and installing on a linux server, thanks, chris jay -- http://www.planet-earth.org http://ping.com.au http://systemic.com.au http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html -- It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] [x3d-public] Wanna help the Mass Avatar Mash?
On 11/05/07, thyme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Chris can I donate any avatars made by seamless? Yes please, I like the look of the images I have seen. You state here: http://www.planet-earth.org/sg07/SMAM07.html "creating avatars using all open source tools, starting with Avatar Studio 1." Avatar studio is free but to my understanding it is NOT open source software (OSS). If anyone knows of the source and the OSS license for it please point me to it. ok, my mistake, sorry. I'll fix that. Some time in the future I will make a simplified specialised interface for making avatars utilising seamless functionality behind the scenes that will be as simple as avatar studio to make avatars (settings for proportions, mix and match, simple specialised UI for animation) and it will be free OSS but in the meantime seamless how it currently is, is about the only free open source program I am ware of that has examples of vrml/x3d avatars made by it that has any chance of competing with the second life avatars. great I'm gonna have a play with it, been meaning to for a while It also offers a lot more creative freedom than avatar studio of course. If anyone knows of another OSS program that can show examples of avs made for VRML/X3D please show the url. Perhaps Blender? I think it can export to vrml, not sure about x3d. Also not sure if it would export in terns of avatars, cheers, chris. best wishes thyme www.seamless3d.com - Original Message - *From:* chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> *To:* x3d-public <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; www-vrml <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; VOS Discussion *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2007 7:31 PM *Subject:* [x3d-public] Wanna help the Mass Avatar Mash? Siggraph Mass Avatar Mash (SMAM) 2Do Updated 10 May 07 Here are the various task areas I would like help with, for the rest of May at least. For more information pls look at the online "blat": http://www.planet-earth.org/sg07/SMAM07.html. Tasking 1. May 1.1Find/allocate servers for prototypingprovide server resources look for sponsors - I'm getting some ppl saying they might sponsor. 1.2 Collect together a set of public avatars to use and test them (we want to ensure there are no scripts that would bog a client down and they all basically work). collect and test avatars. We want good looking/interesting ones but not too heavy on scripting/processor. May want someone who can vet avatars during the event too, as some ppl may want to use ones they created for the event at the last minute. 1.3 Work out a simple protocol for streaming avatar movements over tcp/ip or udp (or both). analyse protocol proposals, test existing protocol code, suggest what else needs to be done. 1.4 Choose one or more server software components to test client-server comms and server-server comms.looking for tcp/ip and udp software for this. 1.5 Choose some client software to run tests on. This may not be a big issue as there should be multiple clients to choose from. But someone might want to periodically run tests and let us know which ones work best, look best etc. 1.6 Run server-server tests and client-server tests. do some server prototyping. 1.7 Analysis, planning next month.1.8 Organise booth(s) at siggraph show floor. My company (Systemic) is putting some money in, what about yours? I'm doing this with Rita atm. 1.9 UI for login and avatar selection.Prepare simple online page for logging in and selecting avatar then loading world. The login part does not have to be secure and maybe we can even do without it? It will have to communicate the entry of another avatar into the world to a server program - it may not have to be on the same host 1.10 Client side designFor those who wan to help here, pls check out what is on the blat then see what you can come up with. -- http://www.planet-earth.org http://ping.com.au http://systemic.com.au http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html -- It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. -- http://www.planet-earth.org http://ping.com.au http://systemic.com.au http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html -- It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] [x3d-public] Re: Wham! SMAM! Avatar Jam!
On 06/05/07, Tommi Laukkanen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Sounds like a good plan. Regarding the avatar movement streaming protocol we could consider it to be part of the web3d analogy to HTTP (traditional web). X3D documents i.e. the static scene can be transfered to client browsers using HTTP but the three dimensional web raises intuitively new requirements namely avatars and interaction. Yes, that is a good analogy. My personal opinion is that not many people are really interested in interlinked 3d models without human interaction. Very good point. A phd student I spoke to said: "It will be much better if there is some form of conversation." He went on to outline a v simple form of conversation where avatars tow around a thumbnail list of their favourite pics. if u click on the thumbs u get the image. Avatars of attendees could show their favourite SIGGRAPH pics. Those not attending may show their pets/whatever. They would have a tab to click on to unroll the thumbs. Avatar movements and object dynamics need to be synchronized between browsers and servers to enable distributed interactive simulation. There was some interesting work already done in the DIS-working group but the final protocol could be slightly less application specific. SWaMP could also be even perfect candidate for the standard but I have not been lucky enough to get to see the specification yet. yes I'm hoping to try out SWaMP. And there is XOM for the server comms to look at. The protocol could be called something like scene synchronization protocol (SSP) or X3D scene synchronization protocol XSSP. In addition to scene synchronization protocol some message contracts for login/logout, avatar selection and avatar control (in case the avatar scripting is run at server side ) would be well worth the effort. I am eager to dedicate my time and server resources to the work at hand. That's great Tommi. I will be putting out a request for help in each area, with all the info I have gathered in the online "blat" document. cheers, chris best regards, Tommi Laukkanen http://questforvr.blogspot.com On 5/5/07, chris < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For this event OTTOMH, here is a first cut at things that have to be > accomplished: > > I will use the headings as an outline to this document: http://www.planet-earth.org/sg07/SMAM07.html > > where I'll just start blatting information to as I find it. > > 1. May > 1.1 Find/allocate some servers for prototyping. > 1.2 Collect together a set of public avatars to use and test them (we > want to ensure there are no scripts that would bog a client down and they > all basically work). > 1.3 Work out a simple protocol for streaming avatar movements over > tcp/ip or udp (or both). Since MediaMachines have a demonstrated prototype > protocol (SWaMP), implemented on Flux: , that would be a good place to > start. > 1.4 Choose one or more server software components to test client-server > comms and server-server comms. > 1.5 Choose some client software to run tests on. > 1.6 Run server-server tests and client-server tests. This will be to > shake out the various tools / technologies we have to choose from. > 1.7 Analysis, planning next month. > 1.8 Organise booth(s) at siggraph show floor. My company (Systemic) is > putting some money in, what about yours? > 1.9 UI for login and avatar selection. > > 2. June > > 2.1 First single server-client multiple avatar tests. There will > probably be multiple isolated tests like this. > 2.2 User interface tests. > 2.3 Client interaction tests. > 2.4 Second single server-client mass avatar tests. There will probably > be multiple isolated tests like this. > 2.5 Analysis. > 2.6 Planning for July. > > 3. July > > 3.1 First serious test of mass avatar collaboration at a selected hour. > 3.2 Second serious test of mass avatar collaboration at a selected hour. > 3.3 Analysis. > 3.4 Planning for the conference. > > 4. August > > 4.1 Conference demonstration 5th-8th. > 4.2 MUVEW Networking BOF (Thursday 10:30-12:30). > > Anything else?, > > regards, > > chris > > -- > http://www.planet-earth.org > http://ping.com.au > http://systemic.com.au > http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html > -- > It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. > -- http://www.planet-earth.org http://ping.com.au http://systemic.com.au http://planet-earth.org/Rez/RezIndex.html -- It be a great secret: there be more truth at the centre. ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] X3D
Reed Hedges wrote: Len Bullard wrote: I will move on to X3D because eventually I will need some of the new features like Inlines with interfaces and bits like the Keyboard Sensor, the upcoming Network Sensor and the physics engine, or the Nice-to-Haves like the Boolean Sequencer that I can replicate in script but a node is easier. For now, I am building in VRML97 where the weather suits my clothes. Fortunately, it sounds like some good GUI editors are coming out (like Flux studio).I never did manage to find a really good GUI tool for building VRML97 that was really focused on VRML and supported all of it, though I was only looking at the free ones. (Back when I was able to actually do 3D for a job I ended up exporting VRML from a simple modeler called AC3D and then mucking about in it by hand slightly.) Reed ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d I still use AC3D (Now in Version 6.1) and it is a great, low cost modeling tool. Also Flux Studio (Which is free and aimed right at VRML & X3d. I even still use Cosmo Worlds for Windows, aimed directly at VRML ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] X3D
V-Realm Builder was and still is excellent. I won a copy in a contest over a decade ago and that was my entry point. I still use it because it is all VRML and has a great terrain editor and index face set utility, and easy treeview interface, great support for sequencing and routing, etc. Big pieces of ROL were done there. OTOH, I like Flux Studio. It is powerful, has fantastic advanced geometry editing with a drop dead easy interface, and well... I still haven't gotten through the feature set although I blogged it at http://3donthewebcheap.blogspot.com I have to admit that for scene assembly, PFE is my work horse because I really don't mind native code. At some point, one really does have to learn the language and you learn to spot bugs fast as well as how to make better protos once you see repeating structures. After awhile, VRML scene graphs just start to make enormous sense from the author's perspective. That is my only caution to the object-oriented programmers: it is too much code geekery for an author in too many cases. A professional game programmer, yes, but the average kid getting started, no. They need to learn a language in the sweet spot between OpenGL and 3DML. Go too high level, there isn't enough power. Go too low level, it takes to much work to do basic stuff. I'm starting to post tutorials there regularly. It is breezy but it is a blog. I am describing my processes for building with code samples as much as anything to give the kids a free place to get the information and a ton of philosophy about my own story telling processes. I call it "3D On The Web CHEAP!" because I'm not a believer in the 'ya gotta buy a server spot at SL' or wherever or 'ya need a copy of Poser and 3D Maya' whatever to get into 3D. That wasn't the original promise of 3D on The web before the new guys rebranded it as 'the metaverse', a term I consider kind of dumb (More Meta Than Thou is the death spiral of design). It was 'get an ASCII editor and a browser and if you got the moxie you can go 3D'. I realize the need for powerful tools because real-time 3D is a lot harder than HTML, but I also know that the key to a real metaverse is accessibility relative to costs for the new comers. Otherwise, we might as well all go back to writing records management systems. I believe 3D and games are to this generation what rock n roll was to mine. The best thing I can do for the kids is hold a door open for them as long as I can, because this is their thing and they need to have their own thing, not ours. I really need to shut up. You guys have work to do and I have a blog for pontificating. Thanks for the space! len -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reed Hedges Fortunately, it sounds like some good GUI editors are coming out (like Flux studio).I never did manage to find a really good GUI tool for building VRML97 that was really focused on VRML and supported all of it, though I was only looking at the free ones. (Back when I was able to actually do 3D for a job I ended up exporting VRML from a simple modeler called AC3D and then mucking about in it by hand slightly.) ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] X3D
Len Bullard wrote: > I will move on to X3D because eventually I will need some > of the new features like Inlines with interfaces and bits like the Keyboard > Sensor, the upcoming Network Sensor and the physics engine, or the > Nice-to-Haves like the Boolean Sequencer that I can replicate in script but > a node is easier. For now, I am building in VRML97 where the weather suits > my clothes. Fortunately, it sounds like some good GUI editors are coming out (like Flux studio).I never did manage to find a really good GUI tool for building VRML97 that was really focused on VRML and supported all of it, though I was only looking at the free ones. (Back when I was able to actually do 3D for a job I ended up exporting VRML from a simple modeler called AC3D and then mucking about in it by hand slightly.) Reed ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
