Re: WAMUG AGM: next Tuesday 3 April 2018

[Peter Hinchliffe]

> On 3 Apr 2018, at 8:41 pm, Anthony (Tony) Francis  wrote:
> 
> Hi Pete
> 
> Thank you for your reply.
> I will do my best to attend meetings when able.
> 
> Kind Regards
> 
> Tony
> 
>> On 2 Apr 2018, at 11:35 pm, Pete Smith > > wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Tony.
>> 
>> Distance certainly makes it a tad difficult. A lot of our members are from 
>> the far flung parts of the State and I’m sure a lot would help out if they 
>> could.
>> 
>> Hopefully, you can get to a meeting or two during the year and we’ll look 
>> forward to seeing you there if you can.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Pete Smith
> 

A word of clarification might be needed here to prevent disappointment, just in 
case you are able to get along to a meeting, only to arrive at the wrong place… 
The committee meetings are held in South Perth, but the monthly General 
Meetings are held in the premises of ProWest Real Estate at 175 High Road, 
Willetton, on the first Tuesday of every month (except January). 

Kind regards,

Peter HinchliffeApwin Computer Services
FileMaker Pro Solutions Developer
Perth, Western Australia
Phone (618) 9332 6482Mob 0403 046 948

Mac because I prefer it -- Windows because I have to.

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Re: High Sierra Installation - Frozen

[Alan Smith]

An update on the big freeze - - -

Left Mac mini installing High Sierra with “30 minutes” remaining for about 7 
hours, then shut down Mac.  Normal boot gave flashing  question mark icon. Used 
Recovery mode Disk Utility  to run First Aid on startup disk (OK).  Question 
mark icon on restart.  Reinstalled OSX from Recovery Mode.  Now have High 
Sierra 10.13.4 and all (?) my files which seems to work OK.  Will test it out 
more thoroughly tomorrow.

Had a secret fear that installation may have crashed during file re-formatting 
and I would end up with Finder giving me lists of hex gobbledegook!

Cheers
A relieved Alan.

> On 3 Apr 2018, at 3:23 pm, Alan Smith  wrote:
> 
> Attempting to install High Sierra on an SSD  2017 Mac mini. Installing 
> progress has been frozen at “About 30 minutes remaining”  for 2 hours.  I 
> downloaded macos from the App Store, presumably v.10.13.4.  This is first 
> High Sierra installation over factory-fitted Sierra, not an update. 
> 
> WAMUG advice to impatient users seems to be “just leave it - overnight if 
> necessary”.  
> 
> Some blog sites suggest proving if Mac is frozen or just slow by invoking 
> Command-L to view the install log.  I tried this as it seems the least 
> invasive of suggestions. No log appeared immediately  (or after 1 hour) so 
> the keyboard may not be talking to the Mac, which may indeed be frozen.
> 
> Doesn’t sound quite right. Would Command-L to view system log be possible? On 
> a Mac that hasn’t yet got an os?!   I tried Command-L back in Mountain Lion 
> days and recall difficulties getting the log started, even for a normal 
> download.
> 
> Earlier today I installed High Sierra on a 27 inch fusion-drive iMac with no 
> problems - around 30 minutes download and 35 minutes installation. This was 
> first High Sierra installation (v.10.13.4) over Sierra.
> 
> Cheers
> Alan
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Re: running out of space

[Ronda Brown]

After you set the Preference to ‘Move language files to Trash’.
Check what free/available space is on your Hard Drive by selecting the Hard 
Drive icon at top right on Desktop and then ‘Get Info’ take note of the 
‘available free space’.

Then when you ran Monolingual again... after it completed were there any 
language files in your Trash?
There should have been and you need to delete the trash and you should then 
notice in Finder ‘Get Info’ on your Hard Drive would show there is more 
available space.

I mentioned below why I think Monolingual is having issues with the ‘Helper 
Tool’.

Restart you Mac and Run Monolingual again.

Cheers,
Ronni

 Ronni Brown’s iPad Pro 12.9-inch 256GB 


> On 3 Apr 2018, at 6:33 pm, FW  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ronni,
> 
> Yes I did read the “Read me”. There was much information about the previous 
> versions etc.
> I can’t remember seeing anything about “Move language files to trash”. And it 
> did of course
> talk about selecting files to be removed - which were already selected.
> However, before attempting the second run I went into preferences and did set 
> move files to trash. Did not select automatic updates. But the result was the 
> same - the 1byte removed response.
> So does it mean that Monolingual won’t give you a second chance ?
> 
> Thanks Ronni.
> 
> Cheers
> Walter
> 
> 
>> On 3 Apr 2018, at 18:09 , Ronni Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Walter,
>> 
>> Did you read the document “MONOLINGUAL 1.8.0 Read me” that came with 
>> Monolingual installation? 
>> Monolingual should NOT be used unless you first read everything about it, as 
>> used incorrectly it can do serious damage to the operating system.
>> 
>> Did you set any of the Preferences in Monolingual > Preferences?
>> Move Language Files to Trash?
>> Automatically check for Updates?
>> Monolingual Architectures?
>> 
>> On my MBA with keeping only English languages -English, English (Australia), 
>> English (UK), English (US). My Trash had many 100’s of language files in it. 
>> After I emptied the Trash -I gained approx. 1.3GB of free Hard Drive space.
>> 
>> Pro Tip: Make sure that all English languages are deselected (including UK, 
>> Australia, Canada, etc.). No matter which language you use natively on your 
>> Mac, keep the English-based languages or you may risk having an incomplete 
>> OS X installation.
>> 
>> Pro Tip: If you use Adobe programs, manually de-select their directories 
>> from the removal process.
>> ==
>> A bit of information in case you don’t understand System Integrity 
>> Protection (SIP)
>> System Integrity Protection (SIP) is a security technology in OS X El 
>> Capitan and later that's designed to help prevent potentially malicious 
>> software from modifying protected files and folders on your Mac. 
>> System Integrity Protection restricts the root user account and limits the 
>> actions that the root user can perform on protected parts of the Mac 
>> operating system.
>> You can read all parts of the system SIP protects at this Apple support 
>> link: 
>> 
>> One part System Integrity Protection includes protection for is /System 
>> I am thinking this ‘might’ be why Monolingual is having ‘issues’ with the 
>> ‘Helper Tool’.
>> 
>> I’ve looked at the Monolingual Logs on my MBA after I’ve completed ‘removing 
>> unneeded language localization files’ and it does show hundreds of language 
>> “lproj” Trashed files.
>> 
>> Your Monolingual Log file can be located at ~/Library/Logs/Monolingual.log
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Ronni
>> 
>> 13-inch MacBook Air (April 2014)
>> 1.7GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost to 3.3GHz
>> 8GB 1600MHz LPDDR3 SDRAM
>> 512GB PCIe-based Flash Storage
>> 
>> macOS High Sierra 10.13.4
>> 
>>> On 30 Mar 2018, at 1:07 pm, FW  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Ronni,
>>> 
>>> I followed your advice and now have available 243GB. I even deleted EyeTV 
>>> recordings that had already been
>>> exported into iTunes.
>>> With the Monolingual I am not sure if it has really done the job ?
>>> I was under the impression that the ticked files would be removed. Only 
>>> English and some euro languages I
>>> left unticked. After clicking the Remove button it took some time and then 
>>> the following message was
>>> displayed: “Space saved: 1 byte”
>>> I closed Monolingual and opened it again and all the files were still 
>>> listed with the ticks in place.
>>> When I open System Preferences >Language & Region I can see the languages 
>>> after clicking on the + to add
>>> more to the “Preferred languages” Is this a valid way of checking for 
>>> available languages ?
>>> 
>>> Confused again
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> Walter
>>> 
 On 27 Mar 2018, at 20:40 , FW  wrote:
 
 Just cleared download folder and then trash, now 177GB available, will 
 attend to your other suggestions
 on w/end.
 
 Thanks and happy easter.
 
 Walter
 **
 
> On 27 Mar 20

Re: WAMUG AGM: next Tuesday 3 April 2018

[Anthony (Tony) Francis]

Hi Pete

Thank you for your reply.
I will do my best to attend meetings when able.

Kind Regards

Tony

> On 2 Apr 2018, at 11:35 pm, Pete Smith  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Tony.
> 
> Distance certainly makes it a tad difficult. A lot of our members are from 
> the far flung parts of the State and I’m sure a lot would help out if they 
> could.
> 
> Hopefully, you can get to a meeting or two during the year and we’ll look 
> forward to seeing you there if you can.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Pete Smith

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Re: running out of space

[FW]

Hi Ronni,

Yes I did read the “Read me”. There was much information about the previous 
versions etc.
I can’t remember seeing anything about “Move language files to trash”. And it 
did of course
talk about selecting files to be removed - which were already selected.
However, before attempting the second run I went into preferences and did set 
move files to trash. Did not select automatic updates. But the result was the 
same - the 1byte removed response.
So does it mean that Monolingual won’t give you a second chance ?

Thanks Ronni.

Cheers
Walter
 

> On 3 Apr 2018, at 18:09 , Ronni Brown  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Walter,
> 
> Did you read the document “MONOLINGUAL 1.8.0 Read me” that came with 
> Monolingual installation? 
> Monolingual should NOT be used unless you first read everything about it, as 
> used incorrectly it can do serious damage to the operating system.
> 
> Did you set any of the Preferences in Monolingual > Preferences?
> Move Language Files to Trash?
> Automatically check for Updates?
> Monolingual Architectures?
> 
> On my MBA with keeping only English languages -English, English (Australia), 
> English (UK), English (US). My Trash had many 100’s of language files in it. 
> After I emptied the Trash -I gained approx. 1.3GB of free Hard Drive space.
> 
> Pro Tip: Make sure that all English languages are deselected (including UK, 
> Australia, Canada, etc.). No matter which language you use natively on your 
> Mac, keep the English-based languages or you may risk having an incomplete OS 
> X installation.
> 
> Pro Tip: If you use Adobe programs, manually de-select their directories from 
> the removal process.
> ==
> A bit of information in case you don’t understand System Integrity Protection 
> (SIP)
> System Integrity Protection (SIP) is a security technology in OS X El Capitan 
> and later that's designed to help prevent potentially malicious software from 
> modifying protected files and folders on your Mac. 
> System Integrity Protection restricts the root user account and limits the 
> actions that the root user can perform on protected parts of the Mac 
> operating system.
> You can read all parts of the system SIP protects at this Apple support link: 
> 
> 
> One part System Integrity Protection includes protection for is /System 
> I am thinking this ‘might’ be why Monolingual is having ‘issues’ with the 
> ‘Helper Tool’.
> 
> I’ve looked at the Monolingual Logs on my MBA after I’ve completed ‘removing 
> unneeded language localization files’ and it does show hundreds of language 
> “lproj” Trashed files.
> 
> Your Monolingual Log file can be located at ~/Library/Logs/Monolingual.log
> 
> Cheers,
> Ronni
> 
> 13-inch MacBook Air (April 2014)
> 1.7GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost to 3.3GHz
> 8GB 1600MHz LPDDR3 SDRAM
> 512GB PCIe-based Flash Storage
> 
> macOS High Sierra 10.13.4
> 
>> On 30 Mar 2018, at 1:07 pm, FW  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Ronni,
>> 
>> I followed your advice and now have available 243GB. I even deleted EyeTV 
>> recordings that had already been
>> exported into iTunes.
>> With the Monolingual I am not sure if it has really done the job ?
>> I was under the impression that the ticked files would be removed. Only 
>> English and some euro languages I
>> left unticked. After clicking the Remove button it took some time and then 
>> the following message was
>> displayed: “Space saved: 1 byte”
>> I closed Monolingual and opened it again and all the files were still listed 
>> with the ticks in place.
>> When I open System Preferences >Language & Region I can see the languages 
>> after clicking on the + to add
>> more to the “Preferred languages” Is this a valid way of checking for 
>> available languages ?
>> 
>> Confused again
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Walter
>> 
>>> On 27 Mar 2018, at 20:40 , FW  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just cleared download folder and then trash, now 177GB available, will 
>>> attend to your other suggestions
>>> on w/end.
>>> 
>>> Thanks and happy easter.
>>> 
>>> Walter
>>> **
>>> 
 On 27 Mar 2018, at 18:09 , Ronda Brown  wrote:
 
 Hi Walter,
 
 I prefer to have my Photos & iPhoto libraries & iTunes library on my Macs 
 and not running them from an External Drive.
 But some people do so successfully.
 
 The absolute VERY minimum free space some say is 15%... I would NEVER 
 recommend any of my clients, friends or WAMUG people run their Macs at 15% 
 available space.
 I prefer to have at the very least 25% available space on my Macs.
 Macs running latest Operating systems need a lot of free space to run well 
 and fast.
 ‘Lean & Mean’ is the way to have a Mac operating at its maximum ;-)
 
 So Walter your Mac’s HD is very close to the 15% (150GB).
 The unneeded language localization files will give you probably 1-2GB 
 extra.
 I would then run WhatSize app to give you details 

Re: running out of space

[Ronni Brown]

Hi Walter,

Did you read the document “MONOLINGUAL 1.8.0 Read me” that came with 
Monolingual installation? 
Monolingual should NOT be used unless you first read everything about it, as 
used incorrectly it can do serious damage to the operating system.

Did you set any of the Preferences in Monolingual > Preferences?
Move Language Files to Trash?
Automatically check for Updates?
Monolingual Architectures?

On my MBA with keeping only English languages -English, English (Australia), 
English (UK), English (US). My Trash had many 100’s of language files in it. 
After I emptied the Trash -I gained approx. 1.3GB of free Hard Drive space.

Pro Tip: Make sure that all English languages are deselected (including UK, 
Australia, Canada, etc.). No matter which language you use natively on your 
Mac, keep the English-based languages or you may risk having an incomplete OS X 
installation.

Pro Tip: If you use Adobe programs, manually de-select their directories from 
the removal process.
==
A bit of information in case you don’t understand System Integrity Protection 
(SIP)
System Integrity Protection (SIP) is a security technology in OS X El Capitan 
and later that's designed to help prevent potentially malicious software from 
modifying protected files and folders on your Mac. 
System Integrity Protection restricts the root user account 
 and limits the actions that the root 
user can perform on protected parts of the Mac operating system.
You can read all parts of the system SIP protects at this Apple support link: 
>

One part System Integrity Protection includes protection for is /System 
I am thinking this ‘might’ be why Monolingual is having ‘issues’ with the 
‘Helper Tool’.

I’ve looked at the Monolingual Logs on my MBA after I’ve completed ‘removing 
unneeded language localization files’ and it does show hundreds of language 
“lproj” Trashed files.

Your Monolingual Log file can be located at ~/Library/Logs/Monolingual.log

Cheers,
Ronni

13-inch MacBook Air (April 2014)
1.7GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost to 3.3GHz
8GB 1600MHz LPDDR3 SDRAM
512GB PCIe-based Flash Storage

macOS High Sierra 10.13.4

> On 30 Mar 2018, at 1:07 pm, FW  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ronni,
> 
> I followed your advice and now have available 243GB. I even deleted EyeTV 
> recordings that had already been
> exported into iTunes.
> With the Monolingual I am not sure if it has really done the job ?
> I was under the impression that the ticked files would be removed. Only 
> English and some euro languages I
> left unticked. After clicking the Remove button it took some time and then 
> the following message was
> displayed: “Space saved: 1 byte”
> I closed Monolingual and opened it again and all the files were still listed 
> with the ticks in place.
> When I open System Preferences >Language & Region I can see the languages 
> after clicking on the + to add
> more to the “Preferred languages” Is this a valid way of checking for 
> available languages ?
> 
> Confused again
> 
> Cheers
> Walter
> 
>> On 27 Mar 2018, at 20:40 , FW  wrote:
>> 
>> Just cleared download folder and then trash, now 177GB available, will 
>> attend to your other suggestions
>> on w/end.
>> 
>> Thanks and happy easter.
>> 
>> Walter
>> **
>> 
>>> On 27 Mar 2018, at 18:09 , Ronda Brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Walter,
>>> 
>>> I prefer to have my Photos & iPhoto libraries & iTunes library on my Macs 
>>> and not running them from an External Drive.
>>> But some people do so successfully.
>>> 
>>> The absolute VERY minimum free space some say is 15%... I would NEVER 
>>> recommend any of my clients, friends or WAMUG people run their Macs at 15% 
>>> available space.
>>> I prefer to have at the very least 25% available space on my Macs.
>>> Macs running latest Operating systems need a lot of free space to run well 
>>> and fast.
>>> ‘Lean & Mean’ is the way to have a Mac operating at its maximum ;-)
>>> 
>>> So Walter your Mac’s HD is very close to the 15% (150GB).
>>> The unneeded language localization files will give you probably 1-2GB extra.
>>> I would then run WhatSize app to give you details of where the used is 
>>> being used.
>>> It’s a good starting point.
>>> 
>>> Uninstall old applications you haven’t used & never will again, archive 
>>> mail attachments & years old mail. Make sure the Trash is empty, the 
>>> Download Folder is empty.
>>> Only the HD and ‘One’ folder on the Desktop. ‘That One Folder’ on the 
>>> Desktop can have other folders inside it if required.
>>> There are lots of items that need regularly cleaned up & ‘culled’.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ronni
>>>  Ronni Brown’s iPad Pro 12.9-inch 256GB 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 27 Mar 2018, at 5:19 pm, FW  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Ronni,
 I have a question on the same subject.
 My HD on the 2009 iMac is 1TB and available 

Re: Parental control app for iOS

[Stephen Chape]

Hi Gary.
May not be helpful to Peter, but your recommendation has prompted me to order 
from the Book Depository.
Not for me (as I am a grandparent), but for my step-daughter who has issues 
with teenage kids.
I just hope she will read it and apply it.
It may act as backup to my advice already dispensed (but largely ignored).

Sorry NOT MAC RELATED … but in a way it is.


> On 3 Apr 2018, at 1:28 pm, gary dorn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter
> A tough one these days
> 
> We use 
> "regardless", 
> "nevertheless" 
> and 
> "you've already said that"
> 
> As our default app.
> 
> Probably not very helpful to what your asking - but very effective non the 
> less when used often and consistently as a response to children's arguing or 
> oral provocations.
> 
> See pg 63 "parent in control" by g Bodenhamer
> 
> Chow
> Gary dorn
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 3 Apr 2018, at 6:25 am, Peter Crisp  wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning, I have the kids with varying to nil degree of compliance with 
>> verbal requests to limit screen use and also what type of communications are 
>> appropriate. I'm after an app that allows scheduling of total screen time, 
>> ability to limit specific app access time, bed time limits etc. I've got the 
>> Ourpact app installed and it allows remote and immediate manual freezing of 
>> iOS devices (good for instant response at times of belligerence) but as I'm 
>> using the free version, the more sophisticated features are pay extras.
>> 
>> A colleague suggested Family Zone but this provides a replacement modem to 
>> regulate traffic within the house but with a Time Capsule for backups that 
>> won't work for me.
>> 
>> It would be good too to have some control over MBP activity but not critical.
>> 
>> Does anyone have suggestions of an app that does this with easy user inputs? 
>>  I could go for the Ourpact Premium at $10/month but it's not got MBP 
>> coverage.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Pete
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Regards,
Stephen Chape






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Re: WAMUG AGM: next Tuesday 3 April 2018

[Pete Smith]

Hi Michael.

The committee meetings are held at an address in Charles St. I won’t put the 
actual number here but it’s not far from the Zoo.

Regards,

Pete Smith

> On 3 Apr 2018, at 09:37, Michael Hawkins  
> wrote:
> 
> Good morning Pete,
> 
> Where abouts in South Perth are the meetings held?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Michael Hawkins
> 
>> On 2 Apr 2018, at 11:35 pm, Pete Smith > > wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Tony.
>> 
>> Distance certainly makes it a tad difficult. A lot of our members are from 
>> the far flung parts of the State and I’m sure a lot would help out if they 
>> could.
>> 
>> Hopefully, you can get to a meeting or two during the year and we’ll look 
>> forward to seeing you there if you can.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Pete Smith
>> 
>>> On 30 Mar 2018, at 08:26, Anthony (Tony) Francis >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Peter and the WAMUG group. Unfortunately due to my working hours and the 
>>> distance to travel I would be unable to assist. 
>>> Hopefully I can attend some of the meetings throughout this year. School 
>>> Holidays would be my best chance.
>>> I wish you all the best in keeping WAMUG alive. I have been well rewarded 
>>> by receiving help when required, money well spent.
>>> Kindest regards
>>> 
>>> Tony Francis
>>> Boddington.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 28 Mar 2018, at 01:04, WAMUG Annoucement >> > wrote:
>>> 
 G’day all WAMUGGERS.
 
 Time is passing quickly and if you have been as busy as I have been, it's 
 been going past at an alarming rate: which is why this email is a tad late 
 in the scheme of things and I apologise for that.
 
 Anyway, next Tuesday, 3 April 2018 is the Annual General meeting of WAMUG.
 
 Nominations for committee members.
 
 As I said in the last monthly meeting announcement, we are asking for 
 people to consider coming onto the committee to provide some fresh blood 
 and ideas. It is not arduous and, although there is a committee meeting 
 every month, it’s OK if you miss some. In fact, if you can only make every 
 second meeting that would be OK.
 
 WAMUG really needs your help so please consider giving a little bit of 
 your time every month or other month. The committee meetings are held on 
 the third Tuesday of every month at 7.30pm in South Perth. They don’t take 
 long.
 
 All the seats on the committee are up for grabs. They are: President, Vice 
 President, Secretary and Treasurer (the named positions) and general 
 committee members.
 
 If you would like to nominate, please send your name to me, Pete Smith, c/ 
 members...@wamug.org.au  . Tell me which 
 position you would like to nominate for. The four named positions are 
 voted in individually whilst, unless there are an excessive number of 
 nominations, the general committee members are voted in en masse.
 
 It is important that the President and Treasurer positions are filled.
 
 Voting.
 
 Voting can be done in a couple of ways. Firstly, by attendance at the AGM. 
 Secondly, by postal votes. The same as what occurred last year will 
 happen. Financial members will receive an email with a link to click which 
 will take them to where they can cast their votes. This email will be sent 
 out on Sunday night, 1 April 2018.
 
 Financial Members.
 
 Only current financial members are eligible to vote. Memberships are due 
 at the beginning of each year so, hopefully, you have all renewed your 
 memberships. If you haven’t, you have a limited time to do so. Any 
 non-financial members will have their ability to post to the list removed 
 this Sunday also.
 
 If you can’t post to the list, you can’t vote either.
 
 Please do consider helping out and offer a bit of your time as a committee 
 member to keep WAMUG going on strong.
 
 Regards,
 
 Pete Smith
 
 -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
 Archives - >
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 >
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High Sierra Installation - Frozen

[Alan Smith]

Attempting to install High Sierra on an SSD  2017 Mac mini. Installing progress 
has been frozen at “About 30 minutes remaining”  for 2 hours.  I downloaded 
macos from the App Store, presumably v.10.13.4.  This is first High Sierra 
installation over factory-fitted Sierra, not an update. 

WAMUG advice to impatient users seems to be “just leave it - overnight if 
necessary”.  

Some blog sites suggest proving if Mac is frozen or just slow by invoking 
Command-L to view the install log.  I tried this as it seems the least invasive 
of suggestions. No log appeared immediately  (or after 1 hour) so the keyboard 
may not be talking to the Mac, which may indeed be frozen.

Doesn’t sound quite right. Would Command-L to view system log be possible? On a 
Mac that hasn’t yet got an os?!   I tried Command-L back in Mountain Lion days 
and recall difficulties getting the log started, even for a normal download.

Earlier today I installed High Sierra on a 27 inch fusion-drive iMac with no 
problems - around 30 minutes download and 35 minutes installation. This was 
first High Sierra installation (v.10.13.4) over Sierra.

Cheers
Alan
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