Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Hi Ray, Thanks so much for that. Yes that all looks fine in Preview AND the custom page numbering is retained :o) I was interested when you said Adobe Reader V10.1.1 did not have problems with any of the versions. I do not normally use Acrobat reader but I had opened the original file in Reader (9.4.2) when checking out Ronni's (sorry, Perez's) comments re page numbering. I now realise that I must not have actually viewed the problem page in Reader - because I have now just tried that and it looks just fine!! So it seems that the problem is limited to Preview - well, Apple's pdf rendering, I guess, since Carlo also reported the same problem with the iPad reader and the problem was also visible in quick-look. Even though the original file is OK in Adobe Reader, your fix is greatly appreciated - I use preview and quick-look all the time and it would have been a pain to have to remember I needed to open this particular file in Adobe Reader! As Carlo says: Given the unusual nature of the bug, and how hard it is to trigger it I would guess you may not see a fix for Preview any time soon. Thanks again, Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 4/1/12 9:17 PM, Ray Forma at r...@smartchat.net.au wrote: Neil, I have now opened p96 in InDesign, saved it as an eps, and used it to replace p96 into the PDF I sent you earlier today. Attached is that new version, which should hopefully give you a complete version, still at 4.2MB. I forgot to test the previous version in Preview, which does have problems with the original 96. The new version doesn't. Adobe Reader V10.1.1 did not have problems with any of the versions. On 04/01/2012, at 8:17 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: Hi Ray, Thanks for that. However, when I open it, page 96 is still faulty - it does not display the text that you see if you view the file through the online reader. Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com Regards, Ray Forma 50 Harvest Road, North Fremantle WA 6159, Australia Tel +61 (0) 8 9335 6568 Mob +61 (0) 428 596938 -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Hi Neil, On 05/01/2012, at 12:02 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: Hi Ray, Thanks so much for that. Yes that all looks fine in Preview AND the custom page numbering is retained :o) I was interested when you said Adobe Reader V10.1.1 did not have problems with any of the versions. I do not normally use Acrobat reader but I had opened the original file in Reader (9.4.2) when checking out Ronni's (sorry, Perez's) comments re page numbering. I now realise that I must not have actually viewed the problem page in Reader - because I have now just tried that and it looks just fine!! Isn’t this what Perez was telling you back on 1 January 2012 … select “Bookmarks” view in Adobe Reader? If you create a multipage document using preview and look at the ToC view, it will only show the name of the first page and no other pages. In Adobe Reader to get the proper numbering of pages you need to look at the 'bookmark' view. With Adobe Acrobat and Adobe Reader, the bookmark view is the default, so things seem to be OK unless you switch views; with Preview, the thumbnail view is what we end up with because it's the only way to assemble a pdf, so we end up believing, falsely to some degree, that the numbers shown are page numbers. So it seems that the problem is limited to Preview - well, Apple's pdf rendering, I guess, since Carlo also reported the same problem with the iPad reader and the problem was also visible in quick-look. Even though the original file is OK in Adobe Reader, your fix is greatly appreciated - I use preview and quick-look all the time and it would have been a pain to have to remember I needed to open this particular file in Adobe Reader! As Carlo says: Given the unusual nature of the bug, and how hard it is to trigger it I would guess you may not see a fix for Preview any time soon. Thanks again, Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 4/1/12 9:17 PM, Ray Forma at r...@smartchat.net.au wrote: Neil, I have now opened p96 in InDesign, saved it as an eps, and used it to replace p96 into the PDF I sent you earlier today. Attached is that new version, which should hopefully give you a complete version, still at 4.2MB. I forgot to test the previous version in Preview, which does have problems with the original 96. The new version doesn't. Adobe Reader V10.1.1 did not have problems with any of the versions. On 04/01/2012, at 8:17 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: Hi Ray, Thanks for that. However, when I open it, page 96 is still faulty - it does not display the text that you see if you view the file through the online reader. Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Hi Ronni, on 5/1/12 12:21 PM, Ronda Brown at ro...@mac.com wrote: Hi Neil, On 05/01/2012, at 12:02 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: Hi Ray, Thanks so much for that. Yes that all looks fine in Preview AND the custom page numbering is retained :o) I was interested when you said Adobe Reader V10.1.1 did not have problems with any of the versions. I do not normally use Acrobat reader but I had opened the original file in Reader (9.4.2) when checking out Ronni's (sorry, Perez's) comments re page Isn¹t this what Perez was telling you back on 1 January 2012 select ³Bookmarks² view in Adobe Reader? No, we are talking about two different things here. The original problem was a page which was not displaying properly - which I have now worked out only has display problems when viewed with Apple pdf rendering (eg preview, quick-look, the iPad viewer) but is OK when viewed with the online reader and in Adobe Reader - and that is what I meant by: I now realise that I must not have actually viewed the problem page in Reader - because I have now just tried that and it looks just fine!! The second set of problem arose when I tried to fix the original problem by dragging a good page into the book to replace the bad page - which worked fine UNTIL I went to save the file in Preview, as I said: At which point, the save operation was quite slow and two things happened: 1. Preview renumbered all the thumbnails so that ALL the thumbnails were numbered with the pdf page number, rather than the printed page number, as before (so that the thumbnail for printed page 6 was now numbered 12) 2. The file size increased from 4.2 MB to 610.6 MB!! If you create a multipage document using preview and look at the ToC view, it will only show the name of the first page and no other pages. Agreed In Adobe Reader to get the proper numbering of pages you need to look at the 'bookmark' view. As I said before: I am a little confused here - in my Adobe reader (version 9.4.2) I can see no reference to Bookmarks or Bookmark view. However in pages view I see the same numbering as in the Preview thumbnail view, ie correct numbering in the original file and re-numbered after saving. With Adobe Acrobat and Adobe Reader, the bookmark view is the default, so things seem to be OK unless you switch views; with Preview, the thumbnail view is what we end up with because it's the only way to assemble a pdf, so we end up believing, falsely to some degree, that the numbers shown are page numbers. As I said before: Except that, as I say, the original file shows the correct thumbnail numbers! It may be clearer to look back at my reply to Perez's 1 January 2012 post, with my comments against the original points. In this post, I also gave links to the original books and also some screenshots showing the customised page numbering displaying correctly in Preview (before saving) and then losing this numbering after saving - so you can see this for yourself. From further reading, it seems that various pdf creation programs allow you to apply custom numbering (or naming) to the page thumbnails. Both Adobe Reader (in pages view) and Preview will correctly display these custom thumbnail numbers - however, editing the pdf in preview (even just save as) strips out these numbers and applies a default simple numbering. This is obviously just a limitation of Preview - the file that Ray fixed using in-design and Acrobat Pro retains the custom thumbnail numbering as per the original. Of course none of this touches on why re-saving a 4.2 MB pdf in Preview results in a 610 MB file! However, I think the exchanges between myself Carlo covered that in more detail. I hope all that makes sense ;o) Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com So it seems that the problem is limited to Preview - well, Apple's pdf rendering, I guess, since Carlo also reported the same problem with the iPad reader and the problem was also visible in quick-look. Even though the original file is OK in Adobe Reader, your fix is greatly appreciated - I use preview and quick-look all the time and it would have been a pain to have to remember I needed to open this particular file in Adobe Reader! As Carlo says: Given the unusual nature of the bug, and how hard it is to trigger it I would guess you may not see a fix for Preview any time soon. Thanks again, Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 4/1/12 9:17 PM, Ray Forma at r...@smartchat.net.au wrote: Neil, I have now opened p96 in InDesign, saved it as an eps, and used it to replace p96 into the PDF I sent you earlier today. Attached is that new version, which should hopefully give you a complete version, still at 4.2MB. I forgot to test the previous version in Preview, which does have problems with the original 96.
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
A further update - even though the file size has doubled - applying this filter does significantly reduce the image quality. I may end up just keeping both copies of the book - it feels wrong but I do get all pages in maximum image quality for less than 9MB in total ;o( Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 2:05 PM, Neil Houghton at n...@possumology.com wrote: Hi Carlo, That's a good tip, thanks - I DID know about this but didn't actually think of it! - and I can't even blame the bubbles, they came later ;o) As a simpler test/comparison of this, I tried two things: 1. I opened the 4.2MB file in Preview and then just did a Save as with no file changes or filters applied: Resulting file size was 610.4 MB. 2. I then did the same with the Reduce file size filter applied: Resulting file size was 9.8MB - still well more than double the original file size - but MUCH better than 610MB!! While it would be NICE to end up with the original 4.2 MB file size, I could certainly live with the 9.8MB one. Now, if I could just solve the thumbnail re-numbering issue... Cheers Neil -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Well, thank you Perez. What a good dog you are. I hope your Mum gave you a nice bone whilst she enjoyed her Bubbles! I have added some thoughts comments below. on 1/1/12 8:48 AM, Ronda Brown at ro...@mac.com wrote: Hi Neil, This is NOT Ronni replying, (as Ronni isn¹t allowed to or Daniel Administrator¹ will unsubscribe her from the mailing list), I am Perez (a very smart Toy Poodle who has been well trained by 'Mum Ronni' in IT Mac Support). Comments to your interesting concerns are added below. On 31/12/2011, at 8:09 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: First off, if you are reading this BEFORE midnight... STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER (go find the Champagne). However, not heeding my own instructions, I'm posting this before the Bubbles confuse me further... OK, here's my problem (bear with me, it takes a little explaining): I found a digitised book on The Internet Archive www.archive.org and downloaded the pdf - no problems with that except that I found one page had been mis-scanned and was unreadable. THEN I found another copy of the SAME book (well same publication, scanned by a different library) and downloaded that - only to find that it too had one page that had been mis-scanned and was unreadable - however, it was a different page. Now each of these pdfs are around 4MB (one is 4.2 the other 4.5) and contain 130 pages - which include the front cover and some un-numbered introductory leaves, then some numbered pages, then some un-numbered end pages and the back cover. On inspection of the original images, the page numbering obviously has the Title page nominally as page 1 (though it is page 7 of the pdf) but only includes the printed page numbers on pages 6 to 118. When these files are viewed in Preview, with the sidebar showing thumbnails, the creators of the pdfs have cleverly numbered the thumbnails to match the actual printed page numbers - ie the first thumbnails are un-numbered but the thumbnail numbering starts with pdf page 12, which happens to have printed page number 6 and so its thumbnail is numbered 6 - this is a very good thing and makes navigation much easier. So far, so good - however I decided it was silly to keep 2 copies of the one book just because of one problem page - why not delete the problem page from one book and replace it with the OK page from the other book. This is easy enough in Preview so I picked one book to be the master, deleted the problem page and dragged the corresponding page from the sidebar of the other book. At this point, everything looked fine - the Preview window now had the complete book with all pages displaying correctly and the thumbnails numbered correctly - until I saved the file! At which point, the save operation was quite slow and two things happened: 1. Preview renumbered all the thumbnails so that ALL the thumbnails were numbered with the pdf page number, rather than the printed page number, as before (so that the thumbnail for printed page 6 was now numbered 12) The Thumbnails are always numbered sequentially regardless of the document or the viewer, preview, Adobe Acrobat or Adobe Reader. Hmmm, whilst that has been my recollection before, the creators of these pdfs have managed to change this behaviour. I will include some links to screeenshots showing this, and to the original file, at the end of my reply. What is called the ToC (Table of Contents) or Bookmarks' in Adobe Acrobat or Adobe Reader view reflects the proper page numbers. I do not have Acrobat and I had not tried Adobe reader. However, I have now viewed both the original and modified documents using Reader and find the same behaviour as in Preview. There does not appear to be a ToC but setting the navigation view to Pages shows the same thumbnails and numbering as Preview does. In Preview App you have to be in thumbnail view to create a multipage pdf document so the thumbnail numbers end up being sequential starting at 1 or the first page stays at the file name and then the numbering continues at 2 etc. Yes, I used thumbnail view to delete the faulty page and insert the correct page but (as per the screenshots listed below) the first 11 thumbnails were un-numbered and the 12th thumbnail was numbered 6 (to match the printed page) and the thumbnails were then numbered sequentially up to thumbnail no 118 which corresponded to printed page no 118 and pdf page 124. The remaining 6 thumbnails (pdf pages 125 to 130) were un-numbered. Removing the faulty page and inserting the good page from the other book did not alter this numbering until I saved the file - at which point the thumbnails were re-numbered to follow the more usual convention which you describe, If you create a multipage document using preview and look at the ToC view, it will only show the name of the first page and no other pages. Agreed With Acrobat Reader the thumbnails are also just sequentially numbered except here the
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
I'm running Mac OS 10.6.8. I was intrigued by your file sizes Neil so I tried saving a PDF book (52 pp) from Preview. Original size - 5.1MB - quality good Saved size - 4.9MB using no quartz filter - quality equally good Saved size - 1.9MB using reduce file size in quartz filter - quality relatively poor. Another scanned magazine (192 pp) Original size 83.3MB - quality good Saved size - 83.3MB using no quartz filter - same quality Saved size - 10.1MB using reduce file size - quality very poor So what was happening with your file sizes? (which I realise is what you were asking originally). I haven't tried swapping pages between copies yet - maybe later tonight and I'll let you know the results. I probably won't explore the numbering dilemma at this stage. Curiouser and curiouser Mike Fuller On 01/01/2012, at 4:03 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: A further update - even though the file size has doubled - applying this filter does significantly reduce the image quality. I may end up just keeping both copies of the book - it feels wrong but I do get all pages in maximum image quality for less than 9MB in total ;o( Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 2:05 PM, Neil Houghton at n...@possumology.com wrote: Hi Carlo, That's a good tip, thanks - I DID know about this but didn't actually think of it! - and I can't even blame the bubbles, they came later ;o) As a simpler test/comparison of this, I tried two things: 1. I opened the 4.2MB file in Preview and then just did a Save as with no file changes or filters applied: Resulting file size was 610.4 MB. 2. I then did the same with the Reduce file size filter applied: Resulting file size was 9.8MB - still well more than double the original file size - but MUCH better than 610MB!! While it would be NICE to end up with the original 4.2 MB file size, I could certainly live with the 9.8MB one. Now, if I could just solve the thumbnail re-numbering issue... Cheers Neil -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Hi Mike, Yes, I'm not sure what is happening. It isn't the page swapping because the test I did before replying to Carlo was just opening the file in Preview and then re-saving - without any page swapping. The original pdf creation was obviously very good - you can actually look at the original scanned jp2 files and they are around 70MB worth - before cropping etc - the cropped and straightened JP2s are 30MB worth and they have compiled them into a 4.2MB pdf - with very good image quality. However the 610.4 MB file that Preview produces does seem excessive!!! Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 5:18 PM, Mike Fuller at blis...@tpg.com.au wrote: I'm running Mac OS 10.6.8. I was intrigued by your file sizes Neil so I tried saving a PDF book (52 pp) from Preview. Original size - 5.1MB - quality good Saved size - 4.9MB using no quartz filter - quality equally good Saved size - 1.9MB using reduce file size in quartz filter - quality relatively poor. Another scanned magazine (192 pp) Original size 83.3MB - quality good Saved size - 83.3MB using no quartz filter - same quality Saved size - 10.1MB using reduce file size - quality very poor So what was happening with your file sizes? (which I realise is what you were asking originally). I haven't tried swapping pages between copies yet - maybe later tonight and I'll let you know the results. I probably won't explore the numbering dilemma at this stage. Curiouser and curiouser Mike Fuller On 01/01/2012, at 4:03 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: A further update - even though the file size has doubled - applying this filter does significantly reduce the image quality. I may end up just keeping both copies of the book - it feels wrong but I do get all pages in maximum image quality for less than 9MB in total ;o( Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 2:05 PM, Neil Houghton at n...@possumology.com wrote: Hi Carlo, That's a good tip, thanks - I DID know about this but didn't actually think of it! - and I can't even blame the bubbles, they came later ;o) As a simpler test/comparison of this, I tried two things: 1. I opened the 4.2MB file in Preview and then just did a Save as with no file changes or filters applied: Resulting file size was 610.4 MB. 2. I then did the same with the Reduce file size filter applied: Resulting file size was 9.8MB - still well more than double the original file size - but MUCH better than 610MB!! While it would be NICE to end up with the original 4.2 MB file size, I could certainly live with the 9.8MB one. Now, if I could just solve the thumbnail re-numbering issue... Cheers Neil -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
For what it's worth Neil, I have reproduced on OS X 10.7 exactly the behaviour that you are seeing. Namely the downloaded PDF has the customized thumbnail numbering scheme before editing (also a blurred page 96). As a test I swapped the order of pages 6 and 7 and as a result the customized thumbnail numbering disappeared and the PDF file size jumped from 4 MB to 610 MB. This I would suspect is a bug in Preview. PDF's internally have a large number of alternative layout schemes -- it's a bit of a hodge-podge. I suspect that the original PDF used a layout scheme that caused Preview to, to use the technical term, freak out. When it saved its in-memory representation to disk, it made a file far larger than it needed to be. If this assumption is correct your only recourse for now is to use a different application to rearrange your PDF. Given the unusual nature of the bug, and how hard it is to trigger it I would guess you may not see a fix for Preview any time soon. Cheers, Carlo On 01/01/2012, at 17:18 , Mike Fuller wrote: I'm running Mac OS 10.6.8. I was intrigued by your file sizes Neil so I tried saving a PDF book (52 pp) from Preview. Original size - 5.1MB - quality good Saved size - 4.9MB using no quartz filter - quality equally good Saved size - 1.9MB using reduce file size in quartz filter - quality relatively poor. Another scanned magazine (192 pp) Original size 83.3MB - quality good Saved size - 83.3MB using no quartz filter - same quality Saved size - 10.1MB using reduce file size - quality very poor So what was happening with your file sizes? (which I realise is what you were asking originally). I haven't tried swapping pages between copies yet - maybe later tonight and I'll let you know the results. I probably won't explore the numbering dilemma at this stage. Curiouser and curiouser Mike Fuller On 01/01/2012, at 4:03 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: A further update - even though the file size has doubled - applying this filter does significantly reduce the image quality. I may end up just keeping both copies of the book - it feels wrong but I do get all pages in maximum image quality for less than 9MB in total ;o( Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 2:05 PM, Neil Houghton at n...@possumology.com wrote: Hi Carlo, That's a good tip, thanks - I DID know about this but didn't actually think of it! - and I can't even blame the bubbles, they came later ;o) As a simpler test/comparison of this, I tried two things: 1. I opened the 4.2MB file in Preview and then just did a Save as with no file changes or filters applied: Resulting file size was 610.4 MB. 2. I then did the same with the Reduce file size filter applied: Resulting file size was 9.8MB - still well more than double the original file size - but MUCH better than 610MB!! While it would be NICE to end up with the original 4.2 MB file size, I could certainly live with the 9.8MB one. Now, if I could just solve the thumbnail re-numbering issue... Cheers Neil -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
It is interesting that the original JPEG files are actually bigger than the PDF. They must be using some type of compression. Perhaps Preview uncompressed the images and on saving failed to compress them again. Just idle speculation at this point. :-) C On 01/01/2012, at 17:49 , Neil Houghton wrote: Hi Mike, Yes, I'm not sure what is happening. It isn't the page swapping because the test I did before replying to Carlo was just opening the file in Preview and then re-saving - without any page swapping. The original pdf creation was obviously very good - you can actually look at the original scanned jp2 files and they are around 70MB worth - before cropping etc - the cropped and straightened JP2s are 30MB worth and they have compiled them into a 4.2MB pdf - with very good image quality. However the 610.4 MB file that Preview produces does seem excessive!!! Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 5:18 PM, Mike Fuller at blis...@tpg.com.au wrote: I'm running Mac OS 10.6.8. I was intrigued by your file sizes Neil so I tried saving a PDF book (52 pp) from Preview. Original size - 5.1MB - quality good Saved size - 4.9MB using no quartz filter - quality equally good Saved size - 1.9MB using reduce file size in quartz filter - quality relatively poor. Another scanned magazine (192 pp) Original size 83.3MB - quality good Saved size - 83.3MB using no quartz filter - same quality Saved size - 10.1MB using reduce file size - quality very poor So what was happening with your file sizes? (which I realise is what you were asking originally). I haven't tried swapping pages between copies yet - maybe later tonight and I'll let you know the results. I probably won't explore the numbering dilemma at this stage. Curiouser and curiouser Mike Fuller On 01/01/2012, at 4:03 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: A further update - even though the file size has doubled - applying this filter does significantly reduce the image quality. I may end up just keeping both copies of the book - it feels wrong but I do get all pages in maximum image quality for less than 9MB in total ;o( Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 2:05 PM, Neil Houghton at n...@possumology.com wrote: Hi Carlo, That's a good tip, thanks - I DID know about this but didn't actually think of it! - and I can't even blame the bubbles, they came later ;o) As a simpler test/comparison of this, I tried two things: 1. I opened the 4.2MB file in Preview and then just did a Save as with no file changes or filters applied: Resulting file size was 610.4 MB. 2. I then did the same with the Reduce file size filter applied: Resulting file size was 9.8MB - still well more than double the original file size - but MUCH better than 610MB!! While it would be NICE to end up with the original 4.2 MB file size, I could certainly live with the 9.8MB one. Now, if I could just solve the thumbnail re-numbering issue... Cheers Neil -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Yes, The folder of JP2 files contains 136 images, of which 130 end up in the pdf - so around 29 MB of the 30.2 MB total are compressed down to 4.2 MB whilst keeping very good image quality - so the compression is VERY good. I can accept that Preview may need to uncompress the files to view them but not only does it fail to recompress them, it actually expands them to 610 MB - which seems ridiculous. As I said in a previous post: When I look at the properties of the pdf it says: PDF Producer: Recoded by LuraDocument PDF v2.28 - so this might be the program that did the page number magic ;o) I did a bit of looking around and it seems that it is the LuraDocument program that does the compression: http://www.luratech.com/en/home/products/software-and-solutions-for-documen t-processing/document-and-data-conversion-software/luradocument-pdf-compress or.html Some other online discussions suggest that the iPad may have trouble with these highly compressed pdfs - I don't have an iPad yet - I think you do Carlo? If so could you try viewing the original pdf and seeing if the iPad can cope with it? The direct link to the pdf is http://www.archive.org/download/parishregister00brad/parishregister00brad.p df Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 6:01 PM, cm at cm200...@gmail.com wrote: It is interesting that the original JPEG files are actually bigger than the PDF. They must be using some type of compression. Perhaps Preview uncompressed the images and on saving failed to compress them again. Just idle speculation at this point. :-) C On 01/01/2012, at 17:49 , Neil Houghton wrote: Hi Mike, Yes, I'm not sure what is happening. It isn't the page swapping because the test I did before replying to Carlo was just opening the file in Preview and then re-saving - without any page swapping. The original pdf creation was obviously very good - you can actually look at the original scanned jp2 files and they are around 70MB worth - before cropping etc - the cropped and straightened JP2s are 30MB worth and they have compiled them into a 4.2MB pdf - with very good image quality. However the 610.4 MB file that Preview produces does seem excessive!!! Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 5:18 PM, Mike Fuller at blis...@tpg.com.au wrote: I'm running Mac OS 10.6.8. I was intrigued by your file sizes Neil so I tried saving a PDF book (52 pp) from Preview. Original size - 5.1MB - quality good Saved size - 4.9MB using no quartz filter - quality equally good Saved size - 1.9MB using reduce file size in quartz filter - quality relatively poor. Another scanned magazine (192 pp) Original size 83.3MB - quality good Saved size - 83.3MB using no quartz filter - same quality Saved size - 10.1MB using reduce file size - quality very poor So what was happening with your file sizes? (which I realise is what you were asking originally). I haven't tried swapping pages between copies yet - maybe later tonight and I'll let you know the results. I probably won't explore the numbering dilemma at this stage. Curiouser and curiouser Mike Fuller On 01/01/2012, at 4:03 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: A further update - even though the file size has doubled - applying this filter does significantly reduce the image quality. I may end up just keeping both copies of the book - it feels wrong but I do get all pages in maximum image quality for less than 9MB in total ;o( Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 2:05 PM, Neil Houghton at n...@possumology.com wrote: Hi Carlo, That's a good tip, thanks - I DID know about this but didn't actually think of it! - and I can't even blame the bubbles, they came later ;o) As a simpler test/comparison of this, I tried two things: 1. I opened the 4.2MB file in Preview and then just did a Save as with no file changes or filters applied: Resulting file size was 610.4 MB. 2. I then did the same with the Reduce file size filter applied: Resulting file size was 9.8MB - still well more than double the original file size - but MUCH better than 610MB!! While it would be NICE to end up with the original 4.2 MB file size, I could certainly live with the 9.8MB one. Now, if I could just solve the thumbnail re-numbering issue... Cheers Neil -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Hi Neil, Both forms of the book come up beautifully on the iPad; the online version in Safari and the downloaded PDF in iBooks. In portrait orientation they look strikingly clear and crisp. There was a bit of a delay when I scrolled forward many pages at a time as the smaller processor of the iPad raced to keep up, but after a delay of about 10 seconds the pages displayed as expected. Jumping to a random location in the book also incurred a 10 second or so delay but turning the pages at reading speed was not a problem. The page numbering was the non-customised version -- that is to say page 6 of the text was page 12 in the thumbnails. Page 96 was still blurry. Cheers, Carlo On 01/01/2012, at 19:42 , Neil Houghton wrote: Yes, The folder of JP2 files contains 136 images, of which 130 end up in the pdf - so around 29 MB of the 30.2 MB total are compressed down to 4.2 MB whilst keeping very good image quality - so the compression is VERY good. I can accept that Preview may need to uncompress the files to view them but not only does it fail to recompress them, it actually expands them to 610 MB - which seems ridiculous. As I said in a previous post: When I look at the properties of the pdf it says: PDF Producer: Recoded by LuraDocument PDF v2.28 - so this might be the program that did the page number magic ;o) I did a bit of looking around and it seems that it is the LuraDocument program that does the compression: http://www.luratech.com/en/home/products/software-and-solutions-for-documen t-processing/document-and-data-conversion-software/luradocument-pdf-compress or.html Some other online discussions suggest that the iPad may have trouble with these highly compressed pdfs - I don't have an iPad yet - I think you do Carlo? If so could you try viewing the original pdf and seeing if the iPad can cope with it? The direct link to the pdf is http://www.archive.org/download/parishregister00brad/parishregister00brad.p df Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 6:01 PM, cm at cm200...@gmail.com wrote: It is interesting that the original JPEG files are actually bigger than the PDF. They must be using some type of compression. Perhaps Preview uncompressed the images and on saving failed to compress them again. Just idle speculation at this point. :-) C On 01/01/2012, at 17:49 , Neil Houghton wrote: Hi Mike, Yes, I'm not sure what is happening. It isn't the page swapping because the test I did before replying to Carlo was just opening the file in Preview and then re-saving - without any page swapping. The original pdf creation was obviously very good - you can actually look at the original scanned jp2 files and they are around 70MB worth - before cropping etc - the cropped and straightened JP2s are 30MB worth and they have compiled them into a 4.2MB pdf - with very good image quality. However the 610.4 MB file that Preview produces does seem excessive!!! Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 5:18 PM, Mike Fuller at blis...@tpg.com.au wrote: I'm running Mac OS 10.6.8. I was intrigued by your file sizes Neil so I tried saving a PDF book (52 pp) from Preview. Original size - 5.1MB - quality good Saved size - 4.9MB using no quartz filter - quality equally good Saved size - 1.9MB using reduce file size in quartz filter - quality relatively poor. Another scanned magazine (192 pp) Original size 83.3MB - quality good Saved size - 83.3MB using no quartz filter - same quality Saved size - 10.1MB using reduce file size - quality very poor So what was happening with your file sizes? (which I realise is what you were asking originally). I haven't tried swapping pages between copies yet - maybe later tonight and I'll let you know the results. I probably won't explore the numbering dilemma at this stage. Curiouser and curiouser Mike Fuller On 01/01/2012, at 4:03 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: A further update - even though the file size has doubled - applying this filter does significantly reduce the image quality. I may end up just keeping both copies of the book - it feels wrong but I do get all pages in maximum image quality for less than 9MB in total ;o( Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 2:05 PM, Neil Houghton at n...@possumology.com wrote: Hi Carlo, That's a good tip, thanks - I DID know about this but didn't actually think of it! - and I can't even blame the bubbles, they came later ;o) As a simpler test/comparison of this, I tried two things: 1. I opened the 4.2MB file in Preview and then just did a Save as with no file changes or filters applied: Resulting file size was 610.4 MB. 2. I then
PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
First off, if you are reading this BEFORE midnight... STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER (go find the Champagne). However, not heeding my own instructions, I'm posting this before the Bubbles confuse me further... OK, here's my problem (bear with me, it takes a little explaining): I found a digitised book on The Internet Archive www.archive.org and downloaded the pdf - no problems with that except that I found one page had been mis-scanned and was unreadable. THEN I found another copy of the SAME book (well same publication, scanned by a different library) and downloaded that - only to find that it too had one page that had been mis-scanned and was unreadable - however, it was a different page. Now each of these pdfs are around 4MB (one is 4.2 the other 4.5) and contain 130 pages - which include the front cover and some un-numbered introductory leaves, then some numbered pages, then some un-numbered end pages and the back cover. On inspection of the original images, the page numbering obviously has the Title page nominally as page 1 (though it is page 7 of the pdf) but only includes the printed page numbers on pages 6 to 118. When these files are viewed in Preview, with the sidebar showing thumbnails, the creators of the pdfs have cleverly numbered the thumbnails to match the actual printed page numbers - ie the first thumbnails are un-numbered but the thumbnail numbering starts with pdf page 12, which happens to have printed page number 6 and so its thumbnail is numbered 6 - this is a very good thing and makes navigation much easier. So far, so good - however I decided it was silly to keep 2 copies of the one book just because of one problem page - why not delete the problem page from one book and replace it with the OK page from the other book. This is easy enough in Preview so I picked one book to be the master, deleted the problem page and dragged the corresponding page from the sidebar of the other book. At this point, everything looked fine - the Preview window now had the complete book with all pages displaying correctly and the thumbnails numbered correctly - until I saved the file! At which point, the save operation was quite slow and two things happened: 1. Preview renumbered all the thumbnails so that ALL the thumbnails were numbered with the pdf page number, rather than the printed page number, as before (so that the thumbnail for printed page 6 was now numbered 12) 2. The file size increased from 4.2 MB to 610.6 MB!! So, my question is; How do I change-out this one problem page in the pdf without Preview: 1. increasing the file size by a factor of 150 times 2. Renumbering the thumbnails to reflect the pdf page number. Or is this just beyond the ability of Preview? It's not a MAJOR problem - I can always just keep the original copies of each book - it just seems a bit DUMB ;o) Any ideas? Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Hi Neil, This is NOT Ronni replying, (as Ronni isn’t allowed to or ‘Daniel Administrator’ will unsubscribe her from the mailing list), I am Perez (a very smart Toy Poodle who has been well trained by 'Mum Ronni' in IT Mac Support). Comments to your interesting concerns are added below. On 31/12/2011, at 8:09 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: First off, if you are reading this BEFORE midnight... STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER (go find the Champagne). However, not heeding my own instructions, I'm posting this before the Bubbles confuse me further... OK, here's my problem (bear with me, it takes a little explaining): I found a digitised book on The Internet Archive www.archive.org and downloaded the pdf - no problems with that except that I found one page had been mis-scanned and was unreadable. THEN I found another copy of the SAME book (well same publication, scanned by a different library) and downloaded that - only to find that it too had one page that had been mis-scanned and was unreadable - however, it was a different page. Now each of these pdfs are around 4MB (one is 4.2 the other 4.5) and contain 130 pages - which include the front cover and some un-numbered introductory leaves, then some numbered pages, then some un-numbered end pages and the back cover. On inspection of the original images, the page numbering obviously has the Title page nominally as page 1 (though it is page 7 of the pdf) but only includes the printed page numbers on pages 6 to 118. When these files are viewed in Preview, with the sidebar showing thumbnails, the creators of the pdfs have cleverly numbered the thumbnails to match the actual printed page numbers - ie the first thumbnails are un-numbered but the thumbnail numbering starts with pdf page 12, which happens to have printed page number 6 and so its thumbnail is numbered 6 - this is a very good thing and makes navigation much easier. So far, so good - however I decided it was silly to keep 2 copies of the one book just because of one problem page - why not delete the problem page from one book and replace it with the OK page from the other book. This is easy enough in Preview so I picked one book to be the master, deleted the problem page and dragged the corresponding page from the sidebar of the other book. At this point, everything looked fine - the Preview window now had the complete book with all pages displaying correctly and the thumbnails numbered correctly - until I saved the file! At which point, the save operation was quite slow and two things happened: 1. Preview renumbered all the thumbnails so that ALL the thumbnails were numbered with the pdf page number, rather than the printed page number, as before (so that the thumbnail for printed page 6 was now numbered 12) The Thumbnails are always numbered sequentially regardless of the document or the viewer, preview, Adobe Acrobat or Adobe Reader. What is called the ToC (Table of Contents) or ‘Bookmarks' in Adobe Acrobat or Adobe Reader view reflects the proper page numbers. In Preview App you have to be in thumbnail view to create a multipage pdf document so the thumbnail numbers end up being sequential starting at 1 or the first page stays at the file name and then the numbering continues at 2 etc. If you create a multipage document using preview and look at the ToC view, it will only show the name of the first page and no other pages. With Acrobat Reader the thumbnails are also just sequentially numbered except here the thumbnails are actually defined as Rages - to get the proper numbering of pages you need to look at the 'bookmark' view. With Adobe Acrobat and Adobe Reader, the bookmark view is the default, so things seem to be OK unless you switch views; with Preview, the thumbnail view is what we end up with because it's the only way to assemble a pdf, so we end up believing, falsely to some degree. that the numbers shown are page numbers. All very interesting and the above information and more can be found at these links: http://www.ehmac.ca/archive/index.php/t-96524.html http://www.ehmac.ca/mac-ipod-help-troubleshooting/96524-assembling-different-size-pdf-documents-into-one-pdf-file.html See, my ‘Mum Ronni’ has trained me well I can use her MacBook Pro (a track pad is easier than a mouse) and search on Google. Oh, Ronni did tell me that she has Acrobat Pro 8 and it does do 'Page numbering of PDF' but does not think it will be able to do what you are wishing, but will try with Acrobat when she returns from her break. Cheers and Happy New Year from Perez 2. The file size increased from 4.2 MB to 610.6 MB!! So, my question is; How do I change-out this one problem page in the pdf without Preview: 1. increasing the file size by a factor of 150 times 2. Renumbering the thumbnails to reflect the pdf page number. Or is this just beyond the ability of Preview? It's not a MAJOR problem - I can always just keep the
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Dear Perez You are one very clever little pup. Please tell Mum Ronni to have a paws! Toby and Rosie (On holiday in Albany with Mummy Elaine and Daddy Reg) Reg Whitely Home: 08 9921 7272 Mob: 04 8899 7313 Email: rwhit...@internode.on.net On 01/01/2012, at 8:48 am, Ronda Brown wrote: Hi Neil, This is NOT Ronni replying, (as Ronni isn’t allowed to or ‘Daniel Administrator’ will unsubscribe her from the mailing list), I am Perez (a very smart Toy Poodle who has been well trained by 'Mum Ronni' in IT Mac Support). Comments to your interesting concerns are added below. On 31/12/2011, at 8:09 PM, Neil Houghton wrote: First off, if you are reading this BEFORE midnight... STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER (go find the Champagne). However, not heeding my own instructions, I'm posting this before the Bubbles confuse me further... OK, here's my problem (bear with me, it takes a little explaining): I found a digitised book on The Internet Archive www.archive.org and downloaded the pdf - no problems with that except that I found one page had been mis-scanned and was unreadable. THEN I found another copy of the SAME book (well same publication, scanned by a different library) and downloaded that - only to find that it too had one page that had been mis-scanned and was unreadable - however, it was a different page. Now each of these pdfs are around 4MB (one is 4.2 the other 4.5) and contain 130 pages - which include the front cover and some un-numbered introductory leaves, then some numbered pages, then some un-numbered end pages and the back cover. On inspection of the original images, the page numbering obviously has the Title page nominally as page 1 (though it is page 7 of the pdf) but only includes the printed page numbers on pages 6 to 118. When these files are viewed in Preview, with the sidebar showing thumbnails, the creators of the pdfs have cleverly numbered the thumbnails to match the actual printed page numbers - ie the first thumbnails are un-numbered but the thumbnail numbering starts with pdf page 12, which happens to have printed page number 6 and so its thumbnail is numbered 6 - this is a very good thing and makes navigation much easier. So far, so good - however I decided it was silly to keep 2 copies of the one book just because of one problem page - why not delete the problem page from one book and replace it with the OK page from the other book. This is easy enough in Preview so I picked one book to be the master, deleted the problem page and dragged the corresponding page from the sidebar of the other book. At this point, everything looked fine - the Preview window now had the complete book with all pages displaying correctly and the thumbnails numbered correctly - until I saved the file! At which point, the save operation was quite slow and two things happened: 1. Preview renumbered all the thumbnails so that ALL the thumbnails were numbered with the pdf page number, rather than the printed page number, as before (so that the thumbnail for printed page 6 was now numbered 12) The Thumbnails are always numbered sequentially regardless of the document or the viewer, preview, Adobe Acrobat or Adobe Reader. What is called the ToC (Table of Contents) or ‘Bookmarks' in Adobe Acrobat or Adobe Reader view reflects the proper page numbers. In Preview App you have to be in thumbnail view to create a multipage pdf document so the thumbnail numbers end up being sequential starting at 1 or the first page stays at the file name and then the numbering continues at 2 etc. If you create a multipage document using preview and look at the ToC view, it will only show the name of the first page and no other pages. With Acrobat Reader the thumbnails are also just sequentially numbered except here the thumbnails are actually defined as Rages - to get the proper numbering of pages you need to look at the 'bookmark' view. With Adobe Acrobat and Adobe Reader, the bookmark view is the default, so things seem to be OK unless you switch views; with Preview, the thumbnail view is what we end up with because it's the only way to assemble a pdf, so we end up believing, falsely to some degree. that the numbers shown are page numbers. All very interesting and the above information and more can be found at these links: http://www.ehmac.ca/archive/index.php/t-96524.html http://www.ehmac.ca/mac-ipod-help-troubleshooting/96524-assembling-different-size-pdf-documents-into-one-pdf-file.html See, my ‘Mum Ronni’ has trained me well I can use her MacBook Pro (a track pad is easier than a mouse) and search on Google. Oh, Ronni did tell me that she has Acrobat Pro 8 and it does do 'Page numbering of PDF' but does not think it will be able to do what you are wishing, but will try with Acrobat when she returns from her break. Cheers and Happy New Year from Perez 2. The file size increased from 4.2 MB
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Hi Neil, In regards to the large size of the modified PDF file here is something you can try. The procedure is different depending on whether you are running OS X 10.7 Lion or an earlier version of the OS. In Lion: 1) Display the PDF in Preview 2) At the top of the window, just to the right of the document title there is a drop down menu that may display to the word Locked or it may be blank. In either case hover the cursor over this area and a down arrow will appear . Click and select Duplicate from this drop down menu. 3) For the new window that is created with an animation, select from the main system menu File Save... 4) Here's the crucial step -- in the drop down dialog used to save the file, set the Quartz Filter to Reduce File Size. The pre-Lion process is a bit easier: 1) Display the PDF in Preview 2) From the main system menu select File Save As... 3) In the drop down dialog used to save the file, set the Quartz Filter to Reduce File Size. A quick note, I did not try this on a pre-Lion version of the OS so I am half guessing, and half filling in blanks from memory for that section. Let me know if it works. Cheers, Carlo On 31/12/2011, at 20:09 , Neil Houghton wrote: First off, if you are reading this BEFORE midnight... STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER (go find the Champagne). However, not heeding my own instructions, I'm posting this before the Bubbles confuse me further... OK, here's my problem (bear with me, it takes a little explaining): I found a digitised book on The Internet Archive www.archive.org and downloaded the pdf - no problems with that except that I found one page had been mis-scanned and was unreadable. THEN I found another copy of the SAME book (well same publication, scanned by a different library) and downloaded that - only to find that it too had one page that had been mis-scanned and was unreadable - however, it was a different page. Now each of these pdfs are around 4MB (one is 4.2 the other 4.5) and contain 130 pages - which include the front cover and some un-numbered introductory leaves, then some numbered pages, then some un-numbered end pages and the back cover. On inspection of the original images, the page numbering obviously has the Title page nominally as page 1 (though it is page 7 of the pdf) but only includes the printed page numbers on pages 6 to 118. When these files are viewed in Preview, with the sidebar showing thumbnails, the creators of the pdfs have cleverly numbered the thumbnails to match the actual printed page numbers - ie the first thumbnails are un-numbered but the thumbnail numbering starts with pdf page 12, which happens to have printed page number 6 and so its thumbnail is numbered 6 - this is a very good thing and makes navigation much easier. So far, so good - however I decided it was silly to keep 2 copies of the one book just because of one problem page - why not delete the problem page from one book and replace it with the OK page from the other book. This is easy enough in Preview so I picked one book to be the master, deleted the problem page and dragged the corresponding page from the sidebar of the other book. At this point, everything looked fine - the Preview window now had the complete book with all pages displaying correctly and the thumbnails numbered correctly - until I saved the file! At which point, the save operation was quite slow and two things happened: 1. Preview renumbered all the thumbnails so that ALL the thumbnails were numbered with the pdf page number, rather than the printed page number, as before (so that the thumbnail for printed page 6 was now numbered 12) 2. The file size increased from 4.2 MB to 610.6 MB!! So, my question is; How do I change-out this one problem page in the pdf without Preview: 1. increasing the file size by a factor of 150 times 2. Renumbering the thumbnails to reflect the pdf page number. Or is this just beyond the ability of Preview? It's not a MAJOR problem - I can always just keep the original copies of each book - it just seems a bit DUMB ;o) Any ideas? Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Hi Bob, Thanks for the suggestion/offer but, no, my problem is not so much making the changes and replacing the faulty page - I can do that easily enough by dragging the good page from one book to replace the faulty page in the other book (since each book has one faulty page but not the same faulty page). My problem is that when I go to save this corrected book the file size increased from 4.2 MB to 610.6 MB!! Also the thumbnails which before were numbered to match the printed page numbers are re-numbered to reflect the pdf page numbers. Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 31/12/11 11:29 PM, Robert Howells at rhowe...@arach.net.au wrote: You could try using PDFpen to make the changes ? Alternately - print the faulty page Scan it with Vuescan and output as Text Create a new page from that text Drag that page in to replace the faulty page Well you did ask ! ?/ Happy new year Bob If you don't have PDFpen give me a link of the book and tell me the pages and I will try with PDFpen to see what happens -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Settings Unsubscribe - http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
Re: PDFs, Preview, file size numbering, Oh My!
Hi Carlo, That's a good tip, thanks - I DID know about this but didn't actually think of it! - and I can't even blame the bubbles, they came later ;o) As a simpler test/comparison of this, I tried two things: 1. I opened the 4.2MB file in Preview and then just did a Save as with no file changes or filters applied: Resulting file size was 610.4 MB. 2. I then did the same with the Reduce file size filter applied: Resulting file size was 9.8MB - still well more than double the original file size - but MUCH better than 610MB!! While it would be NICE to end up with the original 4.2 MB file size, I could certainly live with the 9.8MB one. Now, if I could just solve the thumbnail re-numbering issue... Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: n...@possumology.com on 1/1/12 12:33 PM, cm at cm200...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Neil, In regards to the large size of the modified PDF file here is something you can try. The procedure is different depending on whether you are running OS X 10.7 Lion or an earlier version of the OS. In Lion: 1) Display the PDF in Preview 2) At the top of the window, just to the right of the document title there is a drop down menu that may display to the word Locked or it may be blank. In either case hover the cursor over this area and a down arrow will appear . Click and select Duplicate from this drop down menu. 3) For the new window that is created with an animation, select from the main system menu File Save... 4) Here's the crucial step -- in the drop down dialog used to save the file, set the Quartz Filter to Reduce File Size. The pre-Lion process is a bit easier: 1) Display the PDF in Preview 2) From the main system menu select File Save As... 3) In the drop down dialog used to save the file, set the Quartz Filter to Reduce File Size. A quick note, I did not try this on a pre-Lion version of the OS so I am half guessing, and half filling in blanks from memory for that section. Let me know if it works. Cheers, Carlo On 31/12/2011, at 20:09 , Neil Houghton wrote: First off, if you are reading this BEFORE midnight... STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER (go find the Champagne). However, not heeding my own instructions, I'm posting this before the Bubbles confuse me further... OK, here's my problem (bear with me, it takes a little explaining): I found a digitised book on The Internet Archive www.archive.org and downloaded the pdf - no problems with that except that I found one page had been mis-scanned and was unreadable. THEN I found another copy of the SAME book (well same publication, scanned by a different library) and downloaded that - only to find that it too had one page that had been mis-scanned and was unreadable - however, it was a different page. Now each of these pdfs are around 4MB (one is 4.2 the other 4.5) and contain 130 pages - which include the front cover and some un-numbered introductory leaves, then some numbered pages, then some un-numbered end pages and the back cover. On inspection of the original images, the page numbering obviously has the Title page nominally as page 1 (though it is page 7 of the pdf) but only includes the printed page numbers on pages 6 to 118. When these files are viewed in Preview, with the sidebar showing thumbnails, the creators of the pdfs have cleverly numbered the thumbnails to match the actual printed page numbers - ie the first thumbnails are un-numbered but the thumbnail numbering starts with pdf page 12, which happens to have printed page number 6 and so its thumbnail is numbered 6 - this is a very good thing and makes navigation much easier. So far, so good - however I decided it was silly to keep 2 copies of the one book just because of one problem page - why not delete the problem page from one book and replace it with the OK page from the other book. This is easy enough in Preview so I picked one book to be the master, deleted the problem page and dragged the corresponding page from the sidebar of the other book. At this point, everything looked fine - the Preview window now had the complete book with all pages displaying correctly and the thumbnails numbered correctly - until I saved the file! At which point, the save operation was quite slow and two things happened: 1. Preview renumbered all the thumbnails so that ALL the thumbnails were numbered with the pdf page number, rather than the printed page number, as before (so that the thumbnail for printed page 6 was now numbered 12) 2. The file size increased from 4.2 MB to 610.6 MB!! So, my question is; How do I change-out this one problem page in the pdf without Preview: 1. increasing the file size by a factor of 150 times 2. Renumbering the thumbnails to reflect the pdf page number. Or is this just beyond the ability of Preview? It's not a MAJOR problem - I can always just keep the original copies of each book - it
