Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th. The survey seems to be over. Any word on the results? Adam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
[webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
Hi folks, I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th. http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
Direct link to results: http://kwiksurveys.com/results-overview.php?surveyID=LODHNK_f6f04dadmode=4 On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: Hi folks, I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th. http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
I will also post the results split out by contribution level once the survey closes. Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:58 PM, Jon Lee wrote: Direct link to results: http://kwiksurveys.com/results-overview.php?surveyID=LODHNK_f6f04dadmode=4 On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: Hi folks, I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th. http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
I do think that we should also be considering what the responders are doing --
eg. do you work mostly on the core engine (WebCore, JSC, etc) vs. platform
specific engine work (eg.
WebCore/platform/graphics/{cg,cairo,skia,backendofdoom}) vs. WebKit API stuff
vs. release branching, etc
I think it would be worth tracking these differences for a number of reasons
* There are a number of reviewers who don't do substantial amounts of work
directly in the repo anymore, longterm apple and google contributors who no
longer work exclusively on webkit (on that note do we want to have some kind of
reviewer expiration?)
* Fairly elitist, but surely the opinion of people who work on core engine tech
should have more say than people working on the periphery: core engine work
benefits _everyone_ so I feel more weight should be given there
* The needs of a contributor are fairly strongly influenced by what they're
doing -- people working on build release branches, etc frequently want to do
the sorts of things that git is far better at than svn, but people just working
on single monolithic patches seem to prefer svn.
* A problem we these kinds of survey is that they are inherently biased in
favour of people who want change, people who don't tend to ignore them - I had
basically been ignoring this thread because it was going on and on and on
without actually adding any new information over the last git vs. svn debate,
had done nothing to change my mind, etc - i feel that I am not alone in this
kind of mental exhaustion (see
http://webkitmemes.tumblr.com/post/19019677135/webkit-dev-this-week)
Finally: I use git-svn, it allows me to do everything that I want to do that
git is meant to be good at, so I'm not sure why people keep saying that the
choice is between sticking with svn, or making everyone switch to git. My
counter argument to git-svn is slow so we should all use git is git-svn is
slow and this annoys me so i'm going to contribute patches to git to fix that.
--Oliver
On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
I will also post the results split out by contribution level once the survey
closes.
Regards,
Maciej
On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:58 PM, Jon Lee wrote:
Direct link to results:
http://kwiksurveys.com/results-overview.php?surveyID=LODHNK_f6f04dadmode=4
On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
Hi folks,
I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than
100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness.
Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th.
http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad
Regards,
Maciej
On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com
wrote:
Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live
responses without paying them money. Current results:
- 97 people have answered
- About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey)
- Aabout 20% use Subversion only
- About 13% use Git and Subversion
- No one checked Other
As far as contribution levels of the responders:
- 37% are WebKit reviewers
- 25% are WebKit committers
- 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers
yet)
- 13% are not WebKit contributors
Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers?
I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by
non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which
version control system is more popular in general public.
I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and
reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to
the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have
it.
I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors
who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository.
The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout
instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an
alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at
http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are
buried in the wiki.
Regards,
Maciej
___
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http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
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webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
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Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
This survey is just meant to check what people are currently using to access
the WebKit repository, it's not a preference poll for change. If we were
deciding on making a change, we'd probably aim for rough consensus rather than
voting. However, knowing what people currently use to access the repo is a
relevant fact.
I have sympathy for your comments, but I don't want to make the survey overly
fine-grained in judging different types of WebKit contributors.
In my opinion, the level of SVN use shown in both surveys indicates to me that
we should probably keep supporting it, unless most of the SVN users would want
to switch to Git. In particular, the second survey so far is showing that SVN
use is somewhat higher among committers and reviewers than among the general
population.
Regards,
Maciej
On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:20 PM, Oliver Hunt wrote:
I do think that we should also be considering what the responders are doing
-- eg. do you work mostly on the core engine (WebCore, JSC, etc) vs. platform
specific engine work (eg.
WebCore/platform/graphics/{cg,cairo,skia,backendofdoom}) vs. WebKit API stuff
vs. release branching, etc
I think it would be worth tracking these differences for a number of reasons
* There are a number of reviewers who don't do substantial amounts of work
directly in the repo anymore, longterm apple and google contributors who no
longer work exclusively on webkit (on that note do we want to have some kind
of reviewer expiration?)
* Fairly elitist, but surely the opinion of people who work on core engine
tech should have more say than people working on the periphery: core engine
work benefits _everyone_ so I feel more weight should be given there
* The needs of a contributor are fairly strongly influenced by what they're
doing -- people working on build release branches, etc frequently want to do
the sorts of things that git is far better at than svn, but people just
working on single monolithic patches seem to prefer svn.
* A problem we these kinds of survey is that they are inherently biased in
favour of people who want change, people who don't tend to ignore them - I
had basically been ignoring this thread because it was going on and on and on
without actually adding any new information over the last git vs. svn debate,
had done nothing to change my mind, etc - i feel that I am not alone in this
kind of mental exhaustion (see
http://webkitmemes.tumblr.com/post/19019677135/webkit-dev-this-week)
Finally: I use git-svn, it allows me to do everything that I want to do that
git is meant to be good at, so I'm not sure why people keep saying that the
choice is between sticking with svn, or making everyone switch to git. My
counter argument to git-svn is slow so we should all use git is git-svn is
slow and this annoys me so i'm going to contribute patches to git to fix
that.
--Oliver
On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
I will also post the results split out by contribution level once the survey
closes.
Regards,
Maciej
On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:58 PM, Jon Lee wrote:
Direct link to results:
http://kwiksurveys.com/results-overview.php?surveyID=LODHNK_f6f04dadmode=4
On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
Hi folks,
I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more
than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money.
Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th.
http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad
Regards,
Maciej
On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com
wrote:
Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to
live responses without paying them money. Current results:
- 97 people have answered
- About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey)
- Aabout 20% use Subversion only
- About 13% use Git and Subversion
- No one checked Other
As far as contribution levels of the responders:
- 37% are WebKit reviewers
- 25% are WebKit committers
- 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or
reviewers yet)
- 13% are not WebKit contributors
Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers?
I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by
non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which
version control system is more popular in general public.
I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and
reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to
the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have
it.
I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors
who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit
repository. The fact
Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
I have a vague recollection that we've instrumented the chromium tools so that we can tell who is using git vs. svn and (I think) from which platforms. If there's interest, I can dig up what we did and see if we can use the same technique on our tools. -- Dirk On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Hi folks, I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th. http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
It's probably only worth it if you think such instrumentation would show significantly different results. Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Dirk Pranke wrote: I have a vague recollection that we've instrumented the chromium tools so that we can tell who is using git vs. svn and (I think) from which platforms. If there's interest, I can dig up what we did and see if we can use the same technique on our tools. -- Dirk On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Hi folks, I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th. http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
