Re: [webkit-dev] Keeping track of supported specs on wiki
Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Nov 9, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Rob Burns wrote: Hello all, I have to say I like Philippe's version of the page better. I think it is more appropriate for an open source project like webkit. I would agree with Maciej that the word stable might be more appropriate than full. However, I think its better to show all of the standards whether targeted by Apple or not. It might make sense to have an asterisk on the no response to indicate that Apple has no plans to target a particular standard. The set of specs that currently have no support isn't necessarily identical to the set we are not targetting, or the set we would categorically rule out default support for. I think there are pretty few in the last category, and a huge number in the first if you take a broad view of what standards count. I would rather list the standards we *do* currently care about (including things like IETF RFCs, ECMA standards, ISO standards, etc) than try to list a complete or partial list of ones we don't care about. However, I assume other contributors are free to bring standard supports to WebKit. I know of two such projects myself where contributors are working to bring standards support to WebKit not currently targeted by Apple. Perhaps the status column should be one of: • No • No* (not targeted by Apple) • Partial • Stable Again, I'm not sure No adds much value relative things not on this list probably are not currently targetted. I certainly do not want to make a commitment on behalf of either Apple or the whole WebKit project that we won't support particular specs. I don't quite understand how saying No, we are not working on this currently and don't plan to is not valuable, it's an extra piece of information; it allows people to see what direction development is currently moving in. The wiki is not just a tool for Webkit developers, it's a site for everyone. That means potential adopters but also people who are looking to contribute. If someone is interested in support for some spec, he will go on the wiki/website, look at the table, find his spec and see if it's supported, being worked on (by apple or others) or if there are no plans to support it. Then he can decide to either implement that spec or find another solution. If there is no information about his spec, he will be uncertain if it's supported and then go around asking. BR, Philippe Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Keeping track of supported specs on wiki
Hi Alexey,On Nov 10, 2007, at 1:42 AM, Alexey Proskuryakov wrote:on 10.11.2007 01:55, Rob Burns at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:However, I think its better to show all of the standardswhether targeted by Apple or not. There are a lot of specifications out there - how would you decide whetherone is suitable for inclusion on this page? E.g., should we waste bandwidthexplicitly stating that we are not interested in RFC 3251 support?I understand that we could never make the list completely exhaustive. However, the list Phillippe provided is a good starting point. It may be worthwhile to provide links to pages for discussion of the reasons a particular standard is not (or is not yet) supported. After all it is a wiki. Many of the items Maciej removed are not all that helpful. It makes the list very much like the list on the non-wiki part of the website. It might make sense to link to that list as well so that contributors can see this Apple view of things.The Wiki can provide a valuable place to see archive how these discussion may have gone in the past.However, I assume other contributors arefree to bring standard supports to WebKit. I know of two such projectsmyself where contributors are working to bring standards support toWebKit not currently targeted by Apple. If they are working on such support, they can edit the page to mentionthat - it's a wiki.Definitely. However, I think the list Phillippe created was a nice core list to start with. Its worthwhile linking to further explanation for why WebKit has not in the past targeted some of those standards and provide a list of some obvious standards that contributors might pursue.Take care,Rob___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Keeping track of supported specs on wiki
I agree that the detailed status pages would need to be updated quite frequently (daily) to be of any real use. An automated system would definitely be ideal for this. Nonetheless, for the main table such as the one I made, it only requires updates when a whole specification is either started, or 100% completed. Therefore we can start with this main table and then try to figure out the best way to automate the detailed tables. As for the detailed automated pages, I could try to find some volunteers if I don't do it myself :) I want to stress that this sort of page is not only important for developers, but also very important for potential Webkit adopters who are looking at the browser engines available out there. Without such a detailed status page, they are left in the unknown and might shy away from Webkit. BR, Philippe Eric Seidel wrote: My 2¢: First, this is very nice. It's nice (from a former Web Developer's perspective) to have a status page to quickly scan! That said, an incomplete or out-of-date status page is often not very useful, and one unfortunate problems with status pages (at least with a project as active as WebKit) is that they very quickly go out of date. The SVG page you mention is about 9 months out of date (my fault), and doesn't even reflect what was shipped in Safari 3 (since some SVG features were disabled for the Safari 3 release). Were I to invest time in writing a status page, I think I would try to make it as dynamic as possible (for example, maybe based off of DOMImplementation.hasFeature), but I would want to keep snapshots of the status page for various releases around. Creating such a status page could be a huge undertaking, but it would be easier to keep up to date. :) Thanks for your contribution to the project. -eric On Nov 9, 2007, at 7:47 AM, Philippe Kalaf wrote: Hi guys, I created a new wiki page at : https://svn.macosforge.org/projects/webkit/wiki/SpecSupport. The point is to track the specs that are currently supported or not. For the specs that are being worked on (partially supported), we should have a detailed progress page similar to the SVG status page at : http://webkit.org/projects/svg/status.xml. My knowledge of the supported specs is limited so I only modestly filled in the table. I would appreciate it if everyone pitched in to complete this table. If you are working on a spec please create a detailed status page as well. Once we have a more complete tables, I can write a script that would convert them into a nicer colored HTML tables that we can have on the main website. BR, Philippe Kalaf ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Keeping track of supported specs on wiki
On Nov 9, 2007, at 10:47 AM, Philippe Kalaf wrote: Hi guys, I created a new wiki page at : https://svn.macosforge.org/projects/webkit/wiki/SpecSupport. The point is to track the specs that are currently supported or not. For the specs that are being worked on (partially supported), we should have a detailed progress page similar to the SVG status page at : http://webkit.org/projects/svg/status.xml. My knowledge of the supported specs is limited so I only modestly filled in the table. I would appreciate it if everyone pitched in to complete this table. If you are working on a spec please create a detailed status page as well. Once we have a more complete tables, I can write a script that would convert them into a nicer colored HTML tables that we can have on the main website. Thanks for creating this page - I think it's a useful resource. I think instead of a yes/no support page, we should list specifications we are targeting, and rough status of implementation. No implementation of a web spec is truly bug-free so I am not sure it is ever correct to say Full, but it could be in a Stable state where you think you have complete feature coverage and few known bugs. Also, I'm not sure we need to mention standards that we are *not* targeting. I will update the list with this in mind. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Keeping track of supported specs on wiki
On Nov 9, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Rob Burns wrote: Hello all, I have to say I like Philippe's version of the page better. I think it is more appropriate for an open source project like webkit. I would agree with Maciej that the word stable might be more appropriate than full. However, I think its better to show all of the standards whether targeted by Apple or not. It might make sense to have an asterisk on the no response to indicate that Apple has no plans to target a particular standard. The set of specs that currently have no support isn't necessarily identical to the set we are not targetting, or the set we would categorically rule out default support for. I think there are pretty few in the last category, and a huge number in the first if you take a broad view of what standards count. I would rather list the standards we *do* currently care about (including things like IETF RFCs, ECMA standards, ISO standards, etc) than try to list a complete or partial list of ones we don't care about. However, I assume other contributors are free to bring standard supports to WebKit. I know of two such projects myself where contributors are working to bring standards support to WebKit not currently targeted by Apple. Perhaps the status column should be one of: • No • No* (not targeted by Apple) • Partial • Stable Again, I'm not sure No adds much value relative things not on this list probably are not currently targetted. I certainly do not want to make a commitment on behalf of either Apple or the whole WebKit project that we won't support particular specs. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Keeping track of supported specs on wiki
Hi Maciej, On Nov 9, 2007, at 5:07 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Nov 9, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Rob Burns wrote: Hello all, I have to say I like Philippe's version of the page better. I think it is more appropriate for an open source project like webkit. I would agree with Maciej that the word stable might be more appropriate than full. However, I think its better to show all of the standards whether targeted by Apple or not. It might make sense to have an asterisk on the no response to indicate that Apple has no plans to target a particular standard. The set of specs that currently have no support isn't necessarily identical to the set we are not targetting, or the set we would categorically rule out default support for. I think there are pretty few in the last category, and a huge number in the first if you take a broad view of what standards count. I would rather list the standards we *do* currently care about (including things like IETF RFCs, ECMA standards, ISO standards, etc) than try to list a complete or partial list of ones we don't care about. However, I assume other contributors are free to bring standard supports to WebKit. I know of two such projects myself where contributors are working to bring standards support to WebKit not currently targeted by Apple. Perhaps the status column should be one of: • No • No* (not targeted by Apple) • Partial • Stable Again, I'm not sure No adds much value relative things not on this list probably are not currently targetted. I certainly do not want to make a commitment on behalf of either Apple or the whole WebKit project that we won't support particular specs. I understand what you're saying. But I think if you step back and think about it logically, you'll see that Phillippe's proposal better fits what you're saying. His list is a list of possible standards that WebKit contributors mights want to consider. The only reason some were removed to create your list is that you personally (or perhaps Apple as an organization) do not foresee targeting those particular standards. However as a place for contributors to b begin it is useful to see what new terrains might be open to them. For example a developer might look at Phillippe's list and decide that standard A is of interest to them and they can then quickly see that its got a No. As an alternative, we could add in a category Intended with an email address or a URI to indicate a contact or contacts interested in pursuing a standard. Take care, Rob ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Keeping track of supported specs on wiki
on 10.11.2007 01:55, Rob Burns at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, I think its better to show all of the standards whether targeted by Apple or not. There are a lot of specifications out there - how would you decide whether one is suitable for inclusion on this page? E.g., should we waste bandwidth explicitly stating that we are not interested in RFC 3251 support? However, I assume other contributors are free to bring standard supports to WebKit. I know of two such projects myself where contributors are working to bring standards support to WebKit not currently targeted by Apple. If they are working on such support, they can edit the page to mention that - it's a wiki. - WBR, Alexey Proskuryakov. ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
