Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem

2008-05-14 Thread Stephane Guyot
Lachlan, your trouble comes from the bias you create between the server state and the client state. When you modify the UI via javascript, when you add the company name on the client side and show the company name, the server side doesn't know that there's a new value ? There's no elementID

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem

2008-05-14 Thread Lachlan Deck
Hi there, On 14/05/2008, at 5:20 PM, Stephane Guyot wrote: your trouble comes from the bias you create between the server state and the client state. When you modify the UI via javascript, when you add the company name on the client side and show the company name, the server side doesn't k

Servlet Deployment Problem on Tomcat

2008-05-14 Thread Juergen Lorenz Simon
Hi, I'm trying to deploy a moderately complex WO app to a Tomcat. After successfully building a valid war file and tweaking the web.xml for project wonder, I still have one problem left. Don't suppose anyone seen this before: Exception occurred: java.lang.NullPointerException (to be caught

Generated SQL failing to execute cleanly with PostgreSQL: a fix

2008-05-14 Thread Paul Hoadley
Hello, [This post is merely to document a fix. A search for '"connection limit exceeded for non-superusers" site:lists.apple.com' yielded nothing, so here's a solution for the list archive.] I'm using WOLips 5165, WO 5.4, and PostgreSQL 8.2.5. I first noticed this problem when I upgrade

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem

2008-05-14 Thread Mike Schrag
It should. The javascript is only adjusting the display:none or otherwise. Wait, so you're saying it's display:none and you're making NO structural changes to the form on the server side and it's still being passed a null? I'm calling shenanigans :) That doesn't make sense at all. ms _

Re: Generated SQL failing to execute cleanly with PostgreSQL: a fix

2008-05-14 Thread Mike Schrag
As an aside, could anyone suggest why this error would occur? Is Entity Modeler (or more likely, I suppose, the JDBC layer) executing some of these generated SQL statements concurrently, and hence exceeding 30 connections? No ... We do fire up EOF, and EOF leaves a connection open after st

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem

2008-05-14 Thread Bogdan Zlatanov
On May 14, 2008, at 10:56 AM, Lachlan Deck wrote: Hi there, On 14/05/2008, at 5:20 PM, Stephane Guyot wrote: your trouble comes from the bias you create between the server state and the client state. When you modify the UI via javascript, when you add the company name on the client side a

Re: Servlet Deployment Problem on Tomcat [SOLVED]

2008-05-14 Thread Juergen Lorenz Simon
Problem solved. The issue was the missing properties for the log4j configuration. Simon On 14.05.2008, at 12:46, Juergen Lorenz Simon wrote: Hi, I'm trying to deploy a moderately complex WO app to a Tomcat. After successfully building a valid war file and tweaking the web.xml for project

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem

2008-05-14 Thread Juergen Lorenz Simon
On 14.05.2008, at 13:54, Mike Schrag wrote: It should. The javascript is only adjusting the display:none or otherwise. Wait, so you're saying it's display:none and you're making NO structural changes to the form on the server side and it's still being passed a null? I'm calling shenanigans

Re: Generated SQL failing to execute cleanly with PostgreSQL: a fix

2008-05-14 Thread Paul Hoadley
On 14/05/2008, at 9:32 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: As an aside, could anyone suggest why this error would occur? Is Entity Modeler (or more likely, I suppose, the JDBC layer) executing some of these generated SQL statements concurrently, and hence exceeding 30 connections? No ... We do fire up

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem

2008-05-14 Thread Mike Schrag
It should. The javascript is only adjusting the display:none or otherwise. Wait, so you're saying it's display:none and you're making NO structural changes to the form on the server side and it's still being passed a null? I'm calling shenanigans :) That doesn't make sense at all. Yeah,

iBox - Javascript - Form Help

2008-05-14 Thread James Cicenia
Good Morning... I have been trying to use iBox for one of my pages. I have a form where a person can set a drop down, change a date, etc. Then, there is a button to "add" new callers. What I originally had was a popup, however, this popup never would submit the parent page so when people chan

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem

2008-05-14 Thread Mike Schrag
Correct me if I'm wrong but display:none removes the element from the DOM tree. Why don't you use visibility:hidden instead? It doesn't remove from the DOM, rather it removes from the render tree so it doesn't have any flow side effects ... visibility:hidden causes the element to reflow the

WebServices in 5.4

2008-05-14 Thread Juergen Lorenz Simon
Hi, this is a whine. No cheese, please. Since the installation of 5.4, we had nothing but trouble with WebServices. Especially D2WS caused massive headaches. This starts when the web services assistant fails to connect/talk to the application and when taking ProjectWonder into the picture, t

Re: WebServices in 5.4

2008-05-14 Thread Pascal Robert
How can you use 5.4 on Jaguar, who don't have Java 1.5 ?? Hi, this is a whine. No cheese, please. Since the installation of 5.4, we had nothing but trouble with WebServices. Especially D2WS caused massive headaches. This starts when the web services assistant fails to connect/talk to the a

Re: WebServices in 5.4

2008-05-14 Thread Mike Schrag
How can you use 5.4 on Jaguar, who don't have Java 1.5 ?? Project Wonder is also 1.5, and cannot run on Jaguar either. We hoped for the 5.4.2 release, but the version that came with the iPhone SDK brought no relief. Is there anything special to observe when developing WO54 web services, some

Re: Generated SQL failing to execute cleanly with PostgreSQL: a fix

2008-05-14 Thread Mike Schrag
I'm running WO 5.4, and my PostgresqlPlugIn dates from 20 Feb 2008, not sure what version it is. 5.4.what? SQL generation doesn't work at all if you're using 5.4.<2. Aside from that, this DOES seem odd -- I don't see this behavior at all. I don't know what version of the PG plugin you're us

Re: Generated SQL failing to execute cleanly with PostgreSQL: a fix

2008-05-14 Thread Paul Hoadley
On 14/05/2008, at 10:14 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I'm running WO 5.4, and my PostgresqlPlugIn dates from 20 Feb 2008, not sure what version it is. 5.4.what? SQL generation doesn't work at all if you're using 5.4.<2. Ah, OK, there's a good question. Seems I never did get around to updating t

Re: Generated SQL failing to execute cleanly with PostgreSQL: a fix

2008-05-14 Thread David LeBer
On 14-May-08, at 9:01 AM, Paul Hoadley wrote: On 14/05/2008, at 10:14 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I'm running WO 5.4, and my PostgresqlPlugIn dates from 20 Feb 2008, not sure what version it is. 5.4.what? SQL generation doesn't work at all if you're using 5.4.<2. Ah, OK, there's a good questi

Re: Generated SQL failing to execute cleanly with PostgreSQL: a fix

2008-05-14 Thread Paul Hoadley
On 14/05/2008, at 10:31 PM, Paul Hoadley wrote: Aside from that, this DOES seem odd -- I don't see this behavior at all. I don't know what version of the PG plugin you're using, but I would tend to always say "yes" to getting the latest. However, I did commit just now a defensive closing

Re: Generated SQL failing to execute cleanly with PostgreSQL: a fix

2008-05-14 Thread Mike Schrag
OK, WO 5.4.1, PostgresqlPlugIn 4.0.0.665. After _executing_ the SQL, I get this: 5.4.1 is also broken for SQL gen. You either have to use 5.4.2 (which is not a production release) or 5.3 (which is what I would recommend at this point). ms ___ D

Re: Inner Classes & EOF

2008-05-14 Thread Florijan Stamenkovic
Dave, Chuck, I was out of town (and computerless, it hurt) for a few days, good to see you guys are still having fun :) OK, everything I write here is based on the assumption that your inner class will NOT be an EO. Did I get that right? If I misunderstood, it does not apply... If you wan

Re: WebServices in 5.4

2008-05-14 Thread Mike Schrag
You gotta provide a little more information than this. EXACTLY what isn't working? What exceptions are you getting? I don't use D2WS, but I DO have an app that uses web services and it works with 5.4.2, so you need to be more specific. We don't use D2WS anymore either because ProjectWonder

Re: WOLips Cheat Sheet

2008-05-14 Thread Logi Helguson
I'd love to get this Cheat Sheet into the "Cheat Sheets" view in eclipse ;) Þann 5/7/08 2:16 PM, skrfaði "David LeBer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> eftirfarandi: > Morning all, > > I whipped up a WOLips Cheat Sheet. > > > > It's Mac-centric I'm afraid (though I'd be happy

Fwd: WebServices in 5.4

2008-05-14 Thread Juergen Lorenz Simon
Oops, send the response to Mike instead of list. For the sake of completeness: How can you use 5.4 on Jaguar, who don't have Java 1.5 ?? Project Wonder is also 1.5, and cannot run on Jaguar either. Leopard, my mistake. You gotta provide a little more information than this. EXACTLY what

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem (similiar issue?)

2008-05-14 Thread James Cicenia
Hello - I have been spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to debug my similar issue. I have a form. I have a hidden piece of code: Note name="NoteSubmit">Save Changes The problem is that note is always null? Any thoughts. James Cicenia On May 14

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem (similiar issue?)

2008-05-14 Thread Mike Schrag
I have been spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to debug my similar issue. I have a form. I have a hidden piece of code: Note name="NoteSubmit">Save Changes There's just not enough information to go on here. My original point was mainly that I hav

Subversion and Apache 2

2008-05-14 Thread Gino Pacitti
Hi All.. Any caveats about installing a new version of Apache 2 on Tiger for usage with Subversion Per this - http://developer.apple.com/tools/subversionxcode.html A new compile is needed - does it break WO 5.3 in any way? Gino ___ Do not post adm

Re: Subversion and Apache 2

2008-05-14 Thread David LeBer
On 14-May-08, at 1:01 PM, Gino Pacitti wrote: Hi All.. Any caveats about installing a new version of Apache 2 on Tiger for usage with Subversion Per this - http://developer.apple.com/tools/subversionxcode.html A new compile is needed - does it break WO 5.3 in any way? Apache 2 and Apache

Re: WebServices in 5.4

2008-05-14 Thread Daryl Lee
Hi Juergen, This is not enough information to debug the problem. Can you show us the WSDL? What are the method signatures for 'foo', 'bar' and 'awol' for the FooService class? I'd include all this info in a bug. On May 14, 2008, at 8:40 AM, Juergen Lorenz Simon wrote: p

Re: WebServices in 5.4

2008-05-14 Thread Mike Schrag
I use the variant without the String[] operations and it worked in 5.4.2 (though I don't know if that is the one in the iPhone SDK or not) ... Are you able to modify this temporarily to see if that works? ms On May 14, 2008, at 1:22 PM, Daryl Lee wrote: Hi Juergen, This is not enough infor

Re: Versioning ... CVS or Subversion?

2008-05-14 Thread Gennady Kushnir
> Are they hiring? :-P Russian citizens only. ;-) someone wants to spend a workday without Internet? :-o 2008/5/12 Chuck Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > On May 12, 2008, at 12:23 PM, Gennady Kushnir wrote: >> >> P.S. For those who are stunned about lacking internet on the workplace >> of web-devel

[OT] Free Photoshop for the Web Download from SitePoint

2008-05-14 Thread David Holt
Hi all, Just came across an article this morning on creating buttons in PS and it has a link to download the entire book for the next 30 days. Perhaps you'll find it useful. http://www.sitepoint.com/print/building-buttons-photoshop-1 David ___ Do

Re: Versioning ... CVS or Subversion?

2008-05-14 Thread Chuck Hill
On May 14, 2008, at 10:56 AM, Gennady Kushnir wrote: Are they hiring? :-P Russian citizens only. ;-) Ah well... someone wants to spend a workday without Internet? :-o I have an almost endless list of reading, writing, and experimenting that I would like to do. This work thing keeps

securing communications between web server and WO instances

2008-05-14 Thread Patrick Robinson
I've got a question that I can't recall ever being addressed here. Using https gets you encrypted/secure communication between your users' browsers and your web server. But what do you all typically do to secure communications between your web server and your WO app instances, especially w

Re: securing communications between web server and WO instances

2008-05-14 Thread Alan Ward
On May 14, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Patrick Robinson wrote: I've got a question that I can't recall ever being addressed here. Using https gets you encrypted/secure communication between your users' browsers and your web server. But what do you all typically do to secure communications between y

Re: securing communications between web server and WO instances

2008-05-14 Thread Chuck Hill
On May 14, 2008, at 12:38 PM, Alan Ward wrote: On May 14, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Patrick Robinson wrote: I've got a question that I can't recall ever being addressed here. Using https gets you encrypted/secure communication between your users' browsers and your web server. But what do you all

Re: securing communications between web server and WO instances

2008-05-14 Thread Alan Ward
On May 14, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 14, 2008, at 12:38 PM, Alan Ward wrote: On May 14, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Patrick Robinson wrote: I've got a question that I can't recall ever being addressed here. Using https gets you encrypted/secure communication between your users'

Re: Application became sluggish when deployed on 5.4 [Problem found]

2008-05-14 Thread Gennady Kushnir
Thanks for jstack idea Though with problems (it refused to run until I found solution in lists and after that generated excepions) it gave me a clue to the problem. It seemes like java.util.prefs library became slow on Leopard. And I access preferences extensively in my app. Luckily I've already m

Re: securing communications between web server and WO instances

2008-05-14 Thread Ken Anderson
Chuck, It's clear you don't work for a bank!! Ken On May 14, 2008, at 3:44 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 14, 2008, at 12:38 PM, Alan Ward wrote: On May 14, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Patrick Robinson wrote: I've got a question that I can't recall ever being addressed here. Using https gets you e

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem

2008-05-14 Thread Lachlan Deck
On 14/05/2008, at 9:54 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: It should. The javascript is only adjusting the display:none or otherwise. Wait, so you're saying it's display:none and you're making NO structural changes to the form on the server side and it's still being passed a null? I'm calling shenaniga

Re: Application became sluggish when deployed on 5.4 [Problem found]

2008-05-14 Thread Mike Schrag
java.util.prefs? I'm curious why you're using java.util.prefs instead of just regular WO Properties files? ms On May 14, 2008, at 4:09 PM, Gennady Kushnir wrote: Thanks for jstack idea Though with problems (it refused to run until I found solution in lists and after that generated excepions

Re: Subversion and Apache 2

2008-05-14 Thread Lachlan Deck
Hi there, On 15/05/2008, at 3:09 AM, David LeBer wrote: On 14-May-08, at 1:01 PM, Gino Pacitti wrote: Any caveats about installing a new version of Apache 2 on Tiger for usage with Subversion Per this - http://developer.apple.com/tools/subversionxcode.html A new compile is needed - does i

Re: Not going to WOWODC this year?

2008-05-14 Thread Daniel Mejia
Hi, We are in a very hard time deploying an application for a customer and I can't go to the WOWODC, but I would like to know if you have any plans to sell a DVD with the sessions? Saludos, Daniel. On May 12, 2008, at 5:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Chuck Hill <[EMAIL PROTECT

Re: Application became sluggish when deployed on 5.4 [Problem found]

2008-05-14 Thread Gennady Kushnir
Because I have lots of settings. And I don't want giant properties file. I store my settings hierarchically. Now in plist file. Gennady 2008/5/15 Mike Schrag <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > java.util.prefs? I'm curious why you're using java.util.prefs instead of > just regular WO Properties files? > > ms

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem

2008-05-14 Thread Alexander Spohr
You did not deliver the .wod What exactly is IsCompanyCheckbox doing? Does it set the condition for IsCompany/IsNotCompany (if it is a condition)? If yes, this will kill your cycle while the tree is rendered/comes back and the user checks the box in between. Do not use WOConditionals at tha

Re: Not going to WOWODC this year?

2008-05-14 Thread Chuck Hill
On May 14, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Daniel Mejia wrote: Hi, We are in a very hard time deploying an application for a customer and I can't go to the WOWODC, but I would like to know if you have any plans to sell a DVD with the sessions? Yes, we will be selling the recordings (assuming they work

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem

2008-05-14 Thread Alexander Spohr
I hate to follow up on myself but it is late here and I hit submit a bit too early :) Am 14.05.2008 um 22:24 schrieb Lachlan Deck: But doesn't the below only change after takeValues. i.e., during appendToResponse? No it changes IN takeValues. When it gets the checkbox, your following con

Re: Not going to WOWODC this year?

2008-05-14 Thread Ken Anderson
And if you were still holding out to go to WOWODC and WWDC, WWDC is sold out! Never thought I'd hear that... On May 14, 2008, at 5:06 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 14, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Daniel Mejia wrote: Hi, We are in a very hard time deploying an application for a customer and I can'

Re: takeFormValuesFromRequest problem

2008-05-14 Thread Lachlan Deck
Thanks. On 15/05/2008, at 7:16 AM, Alexander Spohr wrote: I hate to follow up on myself but it is late here and I hit submit a bit too early :) Am 14.05.2008 um 22:24 schrieb Lachlan Deck: But doesn't the below only change after takeValues. i.e., during appendToResponse? No it changes I

Re: Not going to WOWODC this year?

2008-05-14 Thread Chuck Hill
On May 14, 2008, at 2:39 PM, Ken Anderson wrote: And if you were still holding out to go to WOWODC and WWDC, WWDC is sold out! Never thought I'd hear that... iPhone mania! On May 14, 2008, at 5:06 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 14, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Daniel Mejia wrote: Hi, We are in

Re: Not going to WOWODC this year?

2008-05-14 Thread David LeBer
On 14-May-08, at 5:44 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 14, 2008, at 2:39 PM, Ken Anderson wrote: And if you were still holding out to go to WOWODC and WWDC, WWDC is sold out! Never thought I'd hear that... iPhone mania! Can't attend WWDC? WOWODC is still taking registrations. Two sweet l

Re: Not going to WOWODC this year?

2008-05-14 Thread Alan Ward
On May 14, 2008, at 3:52 PM, David LeBer wrote: On 14-May-08, at 5:44 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 14, 2008, at 2:39 PM, Ken Anderson wrote: And if you were still holding out to go to WOWODC and WWDC, WWDC is sold out! Never thought I'd hear that... iPhone mania! Can't attend WWDC?

Re: Generated SQL failing to execute cleanly with PostgreSQL: a fix

2008-05-14 Thread Paul Hoadley
On 14/05/2008, at 11:16 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: OK, WO 5.4.1, PostgresqlPlugIn 4.0.0.665. After _executing_ the SQL, I get this: 5.4.1 is also broken for SQL gen. You either have to use 5.4.2 (which is not a production release) or 5.3 (which is what I would recommend at this point). Than

[OT] WOWODC Outing

2008-05-14 Thread David LeBer
Hey Folks, I'm arriving in SF on Friday afternoon before WOWODC and was thinking of taking an evening tour of Alcatraz that night. If there is anyone else who will be in town who'd be interested in joining me let me know. ;david -- David LeBer Codeferous Software 'co-def-er-ous' adj. Lit

Re: securing communications between web server and WO instances

2008-05-14 Thread Don Lindsay
Hello Patrick; If you are trying to encrypt the contents between hosts: You can use SSH tunneling. Establish a SSH tunnel then port forward across the SSH tunnel. YOu have to use SSH2 or higher. If you are trying to ensure you are are not going to experience hijacking or injection. You

Re: securing communications between web server and WO instances

2008-05-14 Thread Q
On 15/05/2008, at 5:32 AM, Patrick Robinson wrote: I've got a question that I can't recall ever being addressed here. Using https gets you encrypted/secure communication between your users' browsers and your web server. But what do you all typically do to secure communications between you

Re: Not going to WOWODC this year?

2008-05-14 Thread David Avendasora
Leave it to the canadians to bring up beer. Gotta love 'em. Count me in on the beer, WOWODC and WWDC. Especially the beer. Dave On May 14, 2008, at 5:52 PM, David LeBer wrote: ... and I'm sure beer will be involved at some point too... yup certain in fact. ___

Re: Not going to WOWODC this year?

2008-05-14 Thread Alan Ward
On May 14, 2008, at 6:17 PM, David Avendasora wrote: Leave it to the canadians to bring up beer. Yeah, the Canadians are always bringing it up while the English are keeping it down! :-) Alan Gotta love 'em. Count me in on the beer, WOWODC and WWDC. Especially the beer. Dave On Ma

Re: Not going to WOWODC this year?

2008-05-14 Thread Chuck Hill
On May 14, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Alan Ward wrote: On May 14, 2008, at 6:17 PM, David Avendasora wrote: Leave it to the canadians to bring up beer. Yeah, the Canadians are always bringing it up while the English are keeping it down! :-) That is only because you drink flat beer. :-P Chu

Re: WebServices in 5.4

2008-05-14 Thread Mr. Pierre Frisch
Just one more comment on this. In WO 5.4.2 there is a new API WOWSDDRegistar that is a concrete class that can be overwritten by registering a delegate. It is called by WOWebServiceRegistar so if you want to change the behavior you can do it cleanly. That being said this type of exception m

Re: Not going to WOWODC this year?

2008-05-14 Thread David den Boer
On May 14, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:On May 14, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Alan Ward wrote:On May 14, 2008, at 6:17 PM, David Avendasora wrote:Leave it to the canadians to bring up beer.Yeah, the Canadians are always bringing it up while the English are keeping it down!  :-)That is only because you

Re: Localize WOLips project

2008-05-14 Thread Rams
Thank you both for responding! It has taken me a while to get back to this. Localizing strings seems to work fine. I have my English.lproj and Japanese.lproj folders in my Resources folder. I moved my Main.wo (ERXComponent) to my English.lproj folder, and when I attempt to create a Mai

Re: [OT] WOWODC Outing

2008-05-14 Thread Chuck Hill
I was thinking of an outing here: http://www.thechieftain.com/ On May 14, 2008, at 4:05 PM, David LeBer wrote: Hey Folks, I'm arriving in SF on Friday afternoon before WOWODC and was thinking of taking an evening tour of Alcatraz that night. If there is anyone else who will be in town who

Strange Red X's in Eclipse

2008-05-14 Thread Owen McKerrow
Hi All, Well I've finally jumped ship and am starting to use Eclipse/WOLips, and yes even Wonder :) So heres my first question. Anyone know what the little red x ( see pic ) means thats appeared on top of everyone of my model java files ? Steps before this happened ( never mind why I did

Re: Strange Red X's in Eclipse

2008-05-14 Thread Chuck Hill
On May 14, 2008, at 10:27 PM, Owen McKerrow wrote: Hi All, Well I've finally jumped ship and am starting to use Eclipse/WOLips, and yes even Wonder :) So heres my first question. Anyone know what the little red x ( see pic ) means thats appeared on top of everyone of my model java files

Re: Strange Red X's in Eclipse

2008-05-14 Thread Q
On 15/05/2008, at 3:27 PM, Owen McKerrow wrote: Hi All, Well I've finally jumped ship and am starting to use Eclipse/WOLips, and yes even Wonder :) So heres my first question. Anyone know what the little red x ( see pic ) means thats appeared on top of everyone of my model java files ?

Re: Strange Red X's in Eclipse

2008-05-14 Thread Clark Mueller
The X's appear when you delete the files. This is to show you what files have been deleted since your last commit. If you recommit to your SVN repo, it will be "normal" again. Clark On 14 May 08, at 11:27 PM, Owen McKerrow wrote: Hi All, Well I've finally jumped ship and am starting to us

Re: Strange Red X's in Eclipse

2008-05-14 Thread Clark Mueller
Unless of course you wanted those back, which you did. :-) On 14 May 08, at 11:51 PM, Clark Mueller wrote: The X's appear when you delete the files. This is to show you what files have been deleted since your last commit. If you recommit to your SVN repo, it will be "normal" again. Clark

Re: [OT] WOWODC Outing

2008-05-14 Thread Helmut Schottmüller
Hmmm, right after heating-up the beer discussion :D That's a sign... But Alcatraz sounds fine for me too. Am 15.05.2008 um 06:21 schrieb Chuck Hill: I was thinking of an outing here: http://www.thechieftain.com/ On May 14, 2008, at 4:05 PM, David LeBer wrote: Hey Folks, I'm arriving in SF

Re: [OT] WOWODC Outing

2008-05-14 Thread Helmut Schottmüller
...and it was only half the mail. I definitely would like to see Alcatraz but the evening tours are starting a 4:20 / 5:10 and my grandmother always told me not to start drinking beer before sunset :D It's a 20 Minutes walk to the Chieftain, so I see no problem. Or was that meant for the wee