date:20130402

Florian Why not save yourself the headache and have the TDF rent seed boxes
from a provider?


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Florian Effenberger 
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

 Hi,

 Friedrich Strohmaier wrote on 2013-03-28 15:55:

 As Christian stated, it's not of any harm to keep it alive.

 Also not to forget: It's an easy to activate and to extend emergency
 distributing system.


 I am thinking whether we should host the Torrent on bilbo2 in the future,
 or put it into a separate VM. I'd like to keep bilbo2 as clean as possible,
 and IIRC, the current Torrent setup is a bit, well, complicated. :-)

 Do I assume right that moving the Torrent seed to a VM would mean we have
 to copy all of the served files there as well?

 Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module


Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-04-02 08:12:

Florian Why not save yourself the headache and have the TDF rent seed boxes
from a provider?


because 1. we don't have budget for that 2. I think it's pointless 
buying hardware for a distributed system like Torrent. :-)


Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module

Hi Florian, *,

On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
 Friedrich Strohmaier wrote on 2013-03-28 15:55:

 I am thinking whether we should host the Torrent on bilbo2 in the future, or
 put it into a separate VM.

doesn't make sense, as you would have to duplicate the whole thing. So
unless you want to create our own stable mirror besides the master, it
would be a waste :-)

 I'd like to keep bilbo2 as clean as possible, and
 IIRC, the current Torrent setup is a bit, well, complicated. :-)

Actually it is pretty straightforward - you got the tracker, you got
the seed and you're done ;-)

So only moving the torrents is a bad idea. But when you want to create
our own mirror (but why would you do that), then OK.

ciao
Christian

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[libreoffice-website] DFD-Banner on website

2013-04-02 Thread klaus-jürgen weghorn ol

Hi Webadmins,
can someone of you disable the banner for Document Freedom Day in the
header [1]? It is out of time.

[1] http://www.libreoffice.org/default/

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k-j

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[libreoffice-website] Help-Feedback page ...

2013-04-02 Thread Michael Meeks

Hi guys,

We discussed the lack of this in the ESC call; it would appear to be
easier to get a feedback webpage sorted out:

case SID_SEND_FEEDBACK:
{
::rtl::OUString module = SfxHelp::GetCurrentModuleIdentifier();
::rtl::OUString 
sURL(http://hub.libreoffice.org/send-feedback/?LOversion=; + 
utl::ConfigManager::getAboutBoxProductVersion() +
LOlocale= + utl::ConfigManager::getLocale() + LOmodule= + 
module.copy(module.lastIndexOf(.) + 1 )  );

Clearly this currently re-directs to the bug filing assistant; but of
course this is not strictly the only meaning of feedback.

I guess it would be nice to have an intermediate page that provided a
'+' and '-' button to reflect positive vs. negative feedback (that we
could simply log per component  version); provide a list of ways to get
involved with the project, and also a prominent re-direction to bugzilla
[ that preserved / tunneled through the version etc. (?).

At least, changing the translation for 100 languages for 'Feedback' to
file-bug seems like rather a chunk of work here - and it'd be nicer to
have that ;-) so the ESC punted this to the website team - hope that's
ok.

ATB,

Michael.

-- 
michael.me...@suse.com  , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot


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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module


Hi,

Christian Lohmaier wrote on 2013-04-02 14:07:


doesn't make sense, as you would have to duplicate the whole thing. So
unless you want to create our own stable mirror besides the master, it
would be a waste :-)


hm, okay. I really don't like the idea to host a torrent on our mirror, 
I think it's pointless, but maybe I just don't understand the concept. :-)



I'd like to keep bilbo2 as clean as possible, and
IIRC, the current Torrent setup is a bit, well, complicated. :-)


Actually it is pretty straightforward - you got the tracker, you got
the seed and you're done ;-)


Wasn't there some issue with 32/64 bit, chrooting and the like?

Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module

Hi Flo,

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
 Christian Lohmaier wrote on 2013-04-02 14:07:

 hm, okay. I really don't like the idea to host a torrent on our mirror, I
 think it's pointless, but maybe I just don't understand the concept. :-)

Well - somebody has to be the initial seed :-) (although our torrents
have webseeds in them)

 Actually it is pretty straightforward - you got the tracker, you got
 the seed and you're done ;-)

 Wasn't there some issue with 32/64 bit, chrooting and the like?

That was back in the OOo-days, but I fixed that long time ago :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module

Christian correct me if i am wrong but isnt that what a seed box is for to
have the webseeds to get things going?


On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Christian Lohmaier 
lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Hi Flo,

 On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Florian Effenberger
 flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
  Christian Lohmaier wrote on 2013-04-02 14:07:
 
  hm, okay. I really don't like the idea to host a torrent on our mirror, I
  think it's pointless, but maybe I just don't understand the concept. :-)

 Well - somebody has to be the initial seed :-) (although our torrents
 have webseeds in them)

  Actually it is pretty straightforward - you got the tracker, you got
  the seed and you're done ;-)
 
  Wasn't there some issue with 32/64 bit, chrooting and the like?

 That was back in the OOo-days, but I fixed that long time ago :-)

 ciao
 Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module

Hi Jonathan, *,

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Jonathan Aquilina
eagles051...@gmail.com wrote:
 Christian correct me if i am wrong but isnt that what a seed box is for to
 have the webseeds to get things going?

Nope, webseeds are traditional mirrors (as opposed to peer-to-peer),
and those sync via rsync.
Those are added to the torrent files and can be used as fallback in
case the tracker is offline or when there is no seed available.

http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0019.html

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module

ahh very interesting indeed :) I am not understanding what exactly the
issue is in this thread. I have to say that torrents are so much better
then traditional means to download.

Im think though with standard downloads granted they are throttled and
seems like rather heavily. Regardless what mirror i use in my geographic
location the downloads start off at a decent speed and eventually slow down
to a crawl. This leaves much to be desired in the sense of someone setting
this up in an organization as mission critical piece of software.

Regards


On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Christian Lohmaier 
lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Hi Jonathan, *,

 On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Jonathan Aquilina
 eagles051...@gmail.com wrote:
  Christian correct me if i am wrong but isnt that what a seed box is for
 to
  have the webseeds to get things going?

 Nope, webseeds are traditional mirrors (as opposed to peer-to-peer),
 and those sync via rsync.
 Those are added to the torrent files and can be used as fallback in
 case the tracker is offline or when there is no seed available.

 http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0019.html

 ciao
 Christian




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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module


Hi,

Christian Lohmaier wrote on 2013-04-02 17:09:


Well - somebody has to be the initial seed :-) (although our torrents
have webseeds in them)


it's just that I don't feel overly comfortable to put more load on the 
mirror host than needed - I thought that providing some .torrent files 
should support the distributed community to provide the files manually. 
But, seems I just lack insight here, so I will shut up. :)



Wasn't there some issue with 32/64 bit, chrooting and the like?


That was back in the OOo-days, but I fixed that long time ago :-)


Ah, ok. Can you write some documentation for the torrent setup, if we 
gonna reinstall it in bilbo2?


Thanks,
Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module


Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-04-02 17:57:

Florian that is why i suggested a seed box and they are not that expensive
either.https://www.seedunlimited.com/


I just don't see any sense in it. ;-)
TDF provides worldwide mirrors, and invests lots of time and money to 
provide a reliable download infrastructure. Torrent is a distributed 
system - why should we invest in a dedicated machine just providing 
Torrents? It renders the idea behind Torrents useless to me - either 
it's a central download option as we offer, or it's distributed and done 
by many.


Maybe my view is too narrow on this, as I don't use Torrents at all, but 
I rather invest in more mirrors than in more Torrents...


Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module

Hi Florian, *,

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
 Christian Lohmaier wrote on 2013-04-02 17:09:

 Well - somebody has to be the initial seed :-) (although our torrents
 have webseeds in them)

 it's just that I don't feel overly comfortable to put more load on the
 mirror host than needed

Neither the tracker nor seeding the torrents generates noteworthy load
on the server. It has rather conservative settings when it comes to
the number of concurrently seeded files, and not too many people
download using the torrents.
And as you said: The swarm supports itself, reducing the load even
more, in those cases where a torrent is requested by many people.

We have the spare bandwidth on the server, and it doesn't conflict
with pushing to the mirrors either (as it only sees the new torrents
when the files are made public, i.e. when the initial set of mirrors
already do carry the files.

 - I thought that providing some .torrent files
 should support the distributed community to provide the files manually. But,
 seems I just lack insight here, so I will shut up. :)

:-) - you do need someone to start seeding - otherwise you only have a
file that says byterange x to y has checksum a, byterange w to v has
checksum b, ..., other peers gather at tracker - then the client
visits tracker, sees the other peers that want the same file, but
nobody offers them. So you need to get one copy out into the swarm -
and that is mainly the job of the client setup on bilbo.
(again I exclude the webseeds here, so in theory a random client could
start by downloading the file using the webseed and then seed to the
swarm. But as most users have ADSL and their upload is comparably
slow, there /should/ be a box that can seed fast)

But

 Ah, ok. Can you write some documentation for the torrent setup, if we gonna
 reinstall it in bilbo2?

I already did so some time ago - it is in our internal git-based
documentation-setup. Configuration seems huge, but that contain all
the default values, so don't be scared :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module

What i linked is only 120 euros for an entire year. Why though are the
mirrors so slow though to download? That is my only gripe to using them.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-04-02 17:57:

Florian that is why i suggested a seed box and they are not that expensive
either.https://www.**seedunlimited.com/ https://www.seedunlimited.com/

I just don't see any sense in it. ;-)
TDF provides worldwide mirrors, and invests lots of time and money to
provide a reliable download infrastructure. Torrent is a distributed system
- why should we invest in a dedicated machine just providing Torrents? It
renders the idea behind Torrents useless to me - either it's a central
download option as we offer, or it's distributed and done by many.

Maybe my view is too narrow on this, as I don't use Torrents at all, but I
rather invest in more mirrors than in more Torrents...

Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module

Let me clarify. Downloads start at decent speed and end up slowing to a
crawl to the speed of 56k.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.comwrote:

What i linked is only 120 euros for an entire year. Why though are the
mirrors so slow though to download? That is my only gripe to using them.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-04-02 17:57:

Florian that is why i suggested a seed box and they are not that
expensive
either.https://www.**seedunlimited.com/ https://www.seedunlimited.com/

Maybe my view is too narrow on this, as I don't use Torrents at all, but
I rather invest in more mirrors than in more Torrents...

Florian

--
Jonathan Aquilina

Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module

HI Jonathan, *,

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Jonathan Aquilina
eagles051...@gmail.com wrote:
 Florian that is why i suggested a seed box and they are not that expensive
 either. https://www.seedunlimited.com/

A seedbox is pointless. As we have our own servers that are neither at
their bandwidth nor at the storage limit.
So if not on bilbo itself, we could still use one of our other
servers, no need for an additional seedbox.

But using another server is pointless from my POV, as we'd duplicate
our whole mirroring. That of course can be done on purpose, but then
not just for the torrents, but rather to provide a full regular mirror
with torrent-seed functionality.

My point is that it doesn't impact the webserver or other setup, both
client as well as tracker are self-contained, they don't add any
significant amount of load, so personally I don't see a reason to
separate it from the master-mirror.
(but if we'd setup another mirror within our own infrastructure
besides the main-mirror, i.e. have download1.documentfoundation.org
and download2.documentfoundation.org - then it doesn't matter where
the torrent setup resides, it can be on the slave duplicate and
doesn't have to be on the master one.)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Help-Feedback page ...

Hi Michael, *,

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Michael Meeks michael.me...@suse.com wrote:

 We discussed the lack of this in the ESC call; it would appear to be
 easier to get a feedback webpage sorted out:

 case SID_SEND_FEEDBACK:
 {
 ::rtl::OUString module = SfxHelp::GetCurrentModuleIdentifier();
 ::rtl::OUString 
 sURL(http://hub.libreoffice.org/send-feedback/?LOversion=; + 
 utl::ConfigManager::getAboutBoxProductVersion() +
 LOlocale= + utl::ConfigManager::getLocale() + LOmodule= 
 + module.copy(module.lastIndexOf(.) + 1 )  );

 Clearly this currently re-directs to the bug filing assistant; but of
 course this is not strictly the only meaning of feedback.

Yep - but that page did exist back then :-)

And that shows how important it is that the hub link is used, and not
some fixed-URL - as the redirection can be changed easily.

 At least, changing the translation for 100 languages for 'Feedback' to
 file-bug seems like rather a chunk of work here - and it'd be nicer to
 have that ;-) so the ESC punted this to the website team - hope that's

Surely it is - so when you (nl-teams/website editors) have created
such a page, let me know so I can change the redirection accordingly.

It is up to nl-teams whether they want completely different pages, or
a special page like the download or donate page. - In any case, the
page needs to exist before it can be pointed to :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module

2013-04-02 Thread Alin Crețu

Hi,

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.comwrote:

 Let me clarify. Downloads start at decent speed and end up slowing to a
 crawl to the speed of 56k.


Are you sure it's not your link being throttled by your ISP ?




 On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  What i linked is only 120 euros for an entire year. Why though are the
  mirrors so slow though to download? That is my only gripe to using them.


If your downlink is faster than the uplink of a mirror then you might want
to try a mirror closer to you or a mirror with higher bandwidth for the
uplink or maybe use a download manager that can use multiple mirrors to
accelerate the download of a file.

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Re: [libreoffice-website] libobox-torrent rsync module