ther documents and expect it to work, and
also for consistency with and -- what do
you think?
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ard before duplicating
> avenues for the same information.
type=month: Think about entering credit card expiry dates.
type=week: This is a very frequently used data type in European industry.
While it is true that you could ask someone to use a type="datetime"
control to state the
; This doesn't describe UA behaviour according to my test cases. What
> current UAs do is to ignore nested *start* tags. They do not
> close the outer form before the start tag of the inner form, but they
> do close it on the end tag of the inner form.
Fixed.
--
Ian Hickson U
. Why would it? Submitting a form only submits elements that are
associated with the form; i2 is not associated with the outer form.
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recommend simply setting the value of the
back to a neutral default in onblur="", or something along those lines.
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me == 'body' || /*n.localName == 'blockquote' ||*/
>n.localName == 'section' || n.localName == 'navigation' ||
>...
>
> 'navigation' should be 'nav' instead.
Fixed.
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E
e that its contents are a term being defined, but this can be
> indicated using the dfn element."
Fixed as suggested. There have been many other editorial comments on the
WA1 draft in particular on the semantics section (the elements); they have
all been noted and will be dealt wit
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Lachlan Hunt wrote:
> The pseudo-BNF description for the server sent events stream contains the
> following:
>
> ::= [ | | ]*
>
>::= ':'
>
> I assume should be instead.
Oops yep, fixed. Thanks.
--
model control, all being
> prefixed with 'template-' (See ). ".
I've added a note with such a link.
I agree with you that there would be benefit in having the names more
specific, but I think people would quickly get tired of typing it out all
the time. (This is the sam
eous practice optional, not mandatory. And
> deprecated from the start.
I'm not really sure what you're proposing. Are you suggesting that any
Function object should have a .handleEvent() method in addition to its
.call() method and its .prototype
terface
> act like functions. I don't know if current browsers do this.
Well, the EventTarget interfaces are defined as taking EventListeners. So
from another language, if it isn't null, you can call .handleEvent() on
them. I don't see how else to define it. Suggest
r this too, tri-state checkboxes. This currently
isn't supported by HTML.)
It's pretty bad UI for a select to do something if you reselect the
current selection, IMHO.
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.
utting down on
script is always good if it is replaced by something simpler.)
* Replicate every feature of every OS in the first version.
* Having arbitrary form controls in menus.
* Introducing no new elements. It's ok to introduce new elements.
Let me know if you have any questions.
ending HTTP packets at
SMTP and FTP ports. By having a very specific handshake protocol that
servers must obey before the client will allow arbitrary data out, we
avoid the possibility of servers getting hijacked in this way.
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,&#x
27;html:not(:default){background:lime}' really give a green background in
> HTML documents? (But perhaps this is something for CSS3 to clarify.)
> (This question seems to apply to other pseudo-classes as well.)
If :checked doesn't match, :not(:checked) matches, this seems unambiguous.
ight miss it if I did that).
Thoughts? Is it evil?
http://whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#ping
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sing the old
method of redirects, with the new user agents (that support ping) having a
better UI. You could also do the same in reverse with slightly more
complicated JS if you wanted to default to the href="" method for non-JS
browsers (which would make sense until ping="" support is widespread).
Thanks for your input!
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Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
ay users can always just use the
URI and ignore the redirect, they could do that with href="" ping="". In
practice very few users will change that so it won't be a big deal.
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t
> sites from contacting other locations when I click a link" is the best I
> can manage and it's wildly wrong since there are so many other ways a
> site could do this).
The same checkbox that affects whether Referer: headers are sent could
trigger this. The label
t least some interest in it).
I agree that if something better comes along in the future we should use
that instead!
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ut the user's browser
> also "pings" -- makes an hidden HTTP GET -request - of the 2 URI's:
> http://advertising-network.dom/ping-me and
> http://publishers-site.dom/ping-me .
That's exactly what is intended.
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take one example at random, the pref would be a
hidden pref made visible by extensions that focus on this kind of thing
(assuming it is the same as the Referer: header pref). Different browsers
can handle this in different ways, that's how browsers compete.
otification and linking to be separate. In usage,
> they want them to be linked. They seem to me to be mutually exclusive.
In my experience, "they" are ok with it being separate, as it conveys a
number of benefits to the user. (I would consider my source on this matter
reasona
someone money. Hence POST. (This is another advantage of ping over
redirects, come to think of it.)
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espace must also not be trimmed from any other attributes
> # (e.g. the value attribute).
>
> Could you add a note that there is some form of normalization applied to
> these attributes in XML documents as described here:
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#AVNormalize>. This co
gt; behaviour is harder.
It's actually easier to do that today than with ping="". You just put a
capture listener on the root element, and for every click targetted at a
link, you dispatch a sync XMLHttpRequest before letting the event's
default action take place. That's
the user agent can optimise
the user experience.
...is what I have now. If someone can find a better way of phrasing that
please let me know. It's what I mean, but it sounds kooky.
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U
le origin and a single destination for a link.
>
> Did I get it wrong? Wouldn't it be a possibility?What do you think?
Could you show us an example of how that would work?
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
h
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005, ROBO Design wrote:
>
> I have found an error in the WF 2 specification, section 8.2 Relation to CSS
> selectors [1].
Oops. Thanks. Fixed.
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005, Christian Schmidt wrote:
> Ian Hickson wrote:
> >
> > The problem at the moment is that the redirect mechanism obscures the
> > eventual target URI.
>
> One backwards-compatible way (that doesn't require scripting) to solve
> this problem w
"improve", because that's
> what actually happends (improvement, not optimisation).
Improvement over what?
I've used your text for now. I'm still looking for something better. :-)
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
h
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> Quoting Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > # so that if the value content attribute is not specified then
> > > # the value DOM attribute (and the value used for submission
> > > # when the controls are chec
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>
> Quoting Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I don't understand any of the above. Could you explain it again? I really
> > don't know what you are trying to say.
>
> You should probably try harder
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> Quoting Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > You should probably try harder ;-) Anyway, setting |value=""| on a form
> > > control should not result in the DOM attribute value being "on". It
> &
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> Quoting Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > # A control is said to have no value selected if its value is the
> > > # empty string.
> > >
> > > "empty string" was the bit I was falling o
nd reviewing all of the 3 suggestions ... first was the
> best: type="template-add". The second one requires less typing for web
> developers. Each suggestion has its weakness and strength.
>
> As a conclusion, any of the 3 above would be better than what's
> current
ion attribute.
(It would have to be something other than action="", since we're using
that already.)
This is one idea, and I have considered it in the past. But it just seems
so semantically wrong that I can't bring myself to put it in the spec.
--
Ian Hickson
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005, Michael Gratton wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2005-10-17 at 05:27 +0000, Ian Hickson wrote:
> > It's not intended to use port 80 only; where does it say that? That's
> > an error. It is intended to be usable on ports 80, 443, and anything
> > greater
s can only be
established to hosts that are expecting connections from the page's
domain, which massively minimises the risk. (At the moment, it isn't
possible to connect to remote hosts from other domains anyway, but I
imagine we'll relax this
o implement correct handling of everything _other_
than Upgrade: as well, even if it is to return "Not Supported" each time.
You have to parse headers, etc. Nobody is going to actually bother to
correctly implement that, and if they don't, what's the point in
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005, Matthew Raymond wrote:
> Ian Hickson wrote:
> > On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, Matthew Raymond wrote:
> >>My argument isn't that |title| can't contain pattern hints. What I
> >>object to is designing HTML5 so that |title| is the only thing that
not extending HTTP. Let's not bite off more than we can chew!
--
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Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
his whole issue we could just use a totally new HTTP
> method (other than "GET" or "POST"). Maybe "PING".
I think we'll draw the line at extending HTTP. We're in hot enough water
extending HTML and the DOM...
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Jasper Bryant-Greene wrote:
>
> I think it's the "They are defined are part of" bit :)
Ohh, indeed, that is bad. I was confused by the bigger suggested change
and missed that part. *fixes*
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,-
t not least, please let us know about the advantages of using
> lang="en-GB-hixie". I'm really curious about the reason for doing so. Do
> you recommend I use lang="en-robodesign" (and "ro-robodesign") on my
> site :) ?
As othe
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005, Simon Pieters wrote:
>
> I would prefer if the spec was gzipped
In theory this should be happening already. The server supports gzip
transfer encoding.
--
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http://ln.hixie.ch/
or has it not been
> started? Does it need a volunteer?
I have no idea. You may wish to try asking the OMA or IETF groups.
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Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> Quoting Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > > > # A control is said to have no value selected if its value is the
> > > > > # empty string.
> >
> > Apparently... but I don't see how it could
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>
> For XML documents not all elements are ignored. Elements with known semantics
> are parsed.
This is correct. What says otherwise?
--
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lting.
My bad. I have on my WF3 list (because you put WF3 in its
subject line). I haven't looked at any of the mails about suggestions for
WF3 yet. I will in due course, fear not.
When I said "we've already discussed this to death" above I was refering
to , I hadn't realised refered to your WF3 proposal.
No offence intended.
--
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s not being ignored by Mozilla.
Oh, I see the confusion. The parenthetical is being interpreted way too
literally. Ok, fixed.
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t; .three { background:red }
>
> From #s2:
> .one { background:lime }
> .three { background:lime }
>
> Is that correct?
Yes (including the order).
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s like:
...using , say.
This will hopefully be possible once we define that itself is
always by default bound to a particular UA binding.
[1] http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xbl/xbl2.html
Cheers,
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.
n sction 6.2.
> Lastly, it's occurred to me that a form like:
>
>
>
> ...
>
>
> would be easier to handle, as you could reorder the (unordered) input
> based on the foo-order values, as most frameworks do preserve the order
> of values when mul
stcases to make sure it matches
> what's actually implemented, which is probably what's required by the
> Web.
The HTML5 parsing section will cover this in detail.
Note that HTML5 is not based on SGML any more. It will have its own
independent parsing section.
--
Ian Hic
lying to
them in due course but for Web Apps 1.0 I'm currently focusing on fleshing
out the sections marked TBW before going back and responding to the many
issues that have been raised.
Cheers,
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005, Henri Sivonen wrote:
>
> On Oct 26, 2005, at 02:21, Ian Hickson wrote:
>
> > Well, yeah, the basic normalisation that happens to any attribute
> > including HTML attributes and so forth. But the confusing normalisation
> > only occurs with DTD
y would you want to restrict this? It's specifically designed to work in
the scenarios that cookies fail in.
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Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Jasper Bryant-Greene wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 19:14 +0000, Ian Hickson wrote:
> > On Wed, 26 Oct 2005, Simon Pieters wrote:
> > >
> > > I would prefer if the spec was gzipped
> >
> > In theory this should be happening already.
nning on doing it any time soon. I'd rather cut
> > features out, to be honest.
>
> A split version would be good, but only for final. I know it takes time
> and work, that's why only for final.
Yes, I do intend to work on a split version when the spec is finished.
ke it in the specs, please send a
detailed spec for it (including error handling) and if it is a good spec
then I'll look into adding it at some point.
Cheers,
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/,
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>
> Can this demo be fixed? The button named "add" needs to have a template
> attribute with the literal value of "player".
>
> Furthermore, the DOCTYPE should be changed to "".
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>
> Could you please change the namespace to "http://n.whatwg.org/formdata";.
> Perhaps you also want to note at http://n.whatwg.org/formdata that it
> can be used for seeding the form with initial values as well.
Done and
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, Simon Pieters wrote:
>
> This example[1] should probably be something along the lines:
>
> http://search.example.com/";>
>
>
>
> [1] http://whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#extensions2
Good catch, thanks. Fixed.
--
I
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, Simon Pieters wrote:
>
> This example[1] should probably have labels:
>
>
> Name: required="required"/>
> Comment:
>
>
> [1] http://whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#the-required
Fair enough. Added
EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,
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at would be
correct instead. :-)
Basically, when the parsing section gets written, it'll be written to
match the behaviour that the most browsers do.
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) method on the
> form control or same as "nothing happens"?
The spec lists all the requirements for autofocus="" handling, and none of
them imply anything should happen when the attribute is dynamically
changed, therefore nothing happens.
--
Ian Hickson
nything.)
I haven't seen any formal proposals yet, though.
I recommend raising this issue on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list.
Cheers,
--
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Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Hallvord Reiar Michaelsen Steen wrote:
> On 14 Nov 2005 at 23:43, Ian Hickson wrote:
>
> > > Also, AFAIK keygen isn't in any standard but implemented in both Gecko
> > > and Opera. Something for WHATWG to standardise?
> >
> > in gen
27;s a blocker
problem, to be honest), makes the mistake of having an
element's behaviour change radically based on an attribute (bad for
authors and implementors).
Anybody got any better ideas?
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ust to make it work. "Content-Disposition: inline;
> filename=pass.class" didn't work, neither did "Content-Location:
> pass.class". Suggestions?)
I doubt HTML5 will have .
BTW it is spelt "response".
Cheers,
--
Ian Hickson
the requested
data. If there is no plugin available, it should display a placeholder,
IIRC. (What exactly a plugin is is not defined by HTML5.)
(Since wasn't in HTML4 we have to be careful with it, browser
compatibility here is even more important than with other elements.)
--
Ian Hickson
kind of menu using (and is done often today), and so it
would allow for a seamless fallback (if we do it right).
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ted to support it)
Interesting idea. I like the non-JS fallback potential. Pity about the
being necessary to get the to disappear, but I guess
we need that... It's unfortunate about the button being first, too. I
guess we could change that if we say that in the new world in an any
s are
and SVG are recognised by Mozilla's because
at one point they were plugin-only in IE and so people would use
instead of / and so when Mozilla moved to native implemen-
tations for those types, it kept working for compatiblility.)
> How should work? (If at all, I actually dislike all
irefox:
> I can't find a way to disable plugins, so they are treated as Opera's "plugins
> enabled" behaviour.
>
> IE:
> Same as Firefox.
Wow, pretty reasonable interoperability. I guess Opera's behaviour is what
we should head for, then, making disabling of plugins optional.
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etwork activity.
As Lachlan points out, this is out of scope for the specification. User
agents are mostly free to do whatever they like in their interface. I
recommend performing usability testing to determine the optimal course of
action in this case.
--
Ian Hickson
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Lachlan Hunt wrote:
>
> Simon Pieters wrote:
> > Opera:
> > If plugins are enabled, render all s and hide all s, and
> > parse as CDATA. If plugins are disabled, hide all s and
> > display all s, and parse as #PCDATA.
>
> Why does it need to parse it differently depending on
> Also when there's a type attribute?
> >
> > The attribute is only a hint.
>
> So the hint is only for the UA to decide whether or not to load the
> resource?
Well the hint allows the UA to prepare the right kind of rendering
context, but the point is that it might be
edia, it is not true of XUL and Mozilla.
Sure it is. Microsoft couldn't come along and have equal say in the
development of XUL, not like they could with the WHATWG or W3C specs.
(Disclosure: I'm one of the editors of the woefully incomplete XUL spec.)
--
Ian Hick
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Lachlan Hunt wrote:
> >
> > ..
>
> Ok, but how is equivalent markup handled in XHTML, where parsing
> obviously can't switch to CDATA?
It's a parse error (parse errors are fatal in XML).
As to how the
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Christian Biesinger wrote:
>
> Ian Hickson wrote:
> > Yeah, what's a plugin and what isn't is a UA thing, so if the UA
> > decides that its PNG and SVG "plugins" happen to be native support,
> > well, that's what it
current-work/#reflect
I suppose I _could_ copy the definition over but that seems like more work
than it is worth, really.
Cheers,
--
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Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>
> The description for the checkValidity() does not take into account that it can
> also be called from the HTMLFormElement.
Oops, that was just the link pointing to the wrong place.
--
Ian Hickson
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>
> Quoting Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I suppose I _could_ copy the definition over but that seems like more work
> > than it is worth, really.
>
> Just add to <http://whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-wo
n/fired on/
Fixed.
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Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>
> 2.14. Extensions to the textarea element
>
> # 'white-space' property values based on the wrap element
> # for textarea elements
>
> There is no such thing as a "wrap element".
Fixe
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>
> It only addresses form controls nested in a fieldset. However, setting
> optgroup to disabled should cause descendents of that, either optgroup
> or option, to become disabled as well.
Fixed.
--
Ian Hickson
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>
> Quoting Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > It only addresses form controls nested in a fieldset. However, setting
> > > optgroup to disabled should cause descendents of that, either optgroup
> > >
; because the DOM under the element was mutated), a change event is fired on the
> output element."
>
> That contradicts each other, no?
is not a control.
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On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Ian Hickson wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> >
> > Section 4.2 states: "Change and input events must never be triggered by
> > scripted
> > changes to the control value."
> >
> > Section 2.13 st
; Could you make it more clear that this solely applies to 'input' and
> 'DOMActivate'. (And not to the 'change' event.)
It applies to all the events mentioned in that section, namely click,
DOMActivate, and change. Where's the ambiguity? I'm confused. Wh
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>
> Quoting Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > <http://whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#the-click>
> > >
> > > # If the default action of any of these events is canceled,
> > > # th
sting documents
> which do have select and buttons inside li elements?
I only meant inside .
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
This could work. Basically in a new UA if you hit an element you
render it as a menu button, and you use the contents to determine the
and the button label according to some algorithm.
(I've renamed to to remove any mention of what we call new
elements for now. The structure is what I'm looking at here.)
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
button/whatever you call it (turns each
command into a button, and each submenu into a menu button), and the
default, which is to display as a (like today).
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
all other content is ignored (and could be used for fallback).
Not quite sure how to get the label for nested elements yet.
Also not quite sure how to make all this styleable, especially for the
toolbar type of . Although... maybe with XBL2's xbl:pseudo=""
on, the
harder it is, IMHO. This is one reason is easier than CSS.) I'd
expect use of the command="" attribute to be much rarer than just use of
itself:
(Falls back to a line break.)
> In that case, could we just require like we do for and
> ? Perhaps even replace with , making it more like the
> XHTML 2.0 element?
doesn't have convenient fallback characteristics.
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
important goal is being
able to get just the right kind of fallback. Most toolbars these days
don't have bullets before every command button. :-)
> Earlier, Ian Hickson wrote:
> > 1. Providing a menu bar for the entire window (or application, on Mac), so
> > that the applica
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