[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 --- Comment #31 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #30) Thanks Nemo, but my question remains Let me rephrase then: this bug will be fixed to the reporter's satisfaction when people will think the solution enough to supersede the shorturl extension. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 This, that and the other at.li...@live.com.au changed: What|Removed |Added CC||at.li...@live.com.au --- Comment #28 from This, that and the other at.li...@live.com.au --- This bug has got quite confusing. Let me see if I can untangle it: * People want a safe permanent URL that ** Points to a specific wiki page (by page ID/curid), not a revision (oldid) à la Special:PermanentLink nor a page title à la [[mw:Extension:ShortUrl]] ** Contains no non-ASCII characters. ** Is relatively short. ** Is discoverable for those who need it (having it displayed on action=info might be enough). In my view, index.php?curid=page ID has always worked for this, although it is not particularly short, some may dislike the query string syntax, and discoverability is poor (especially because the parameter is so badly named - bug 27087). And now, per bug 58727, we can use Special:Redirect/page/page ID, which is nothing more than an alias for curid. It fits the bill a little better, although I guess if you want a really short URL, you could set up a rewrite on your server. Please tell me if I got it wrong. Nemo and gangleri, if you could clarify what you will want to see before this bug can be marked FIXED, it would be very helpful, so we can focus the progress here :) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 --- Comment #29 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- TTO, the part about discoverability of curid (and now Special:Redirect I guess) is bug 42238, which probably is mainly a usability/design issue. I agree that curid is mostly enough, but people obviously didn't think so till now or we wouldn't have extensions doing that job. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 --- Comment #30 from This, that and the other at.li...@live.com.au --- Thanks Nemo, but my question remains: (In reply to comment #28) if you could clarify what you will want to see before this bug can be marked FIXED, it would be very helpful, so we can focus the progress here :) This bug is quite vague, covering many mixed issues, and I feel that it needs a clear goal. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 This, that and the other at.li...@live.com.au changed: What|Removed |Added See Also||https://bugzilla.wikimedia. ||org/show_bug.cgi?id=58727 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 Bug 21572 depends on bug 42238, which changed state. Bug 42238 Summary: Expose in UI the curid link (permalink to last revision) of a page by adding it to the respective action=info https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42238 What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |WORKSFORME -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 Bug 21572 depends on bug 42238, which changed state. Bug 42238 Summary: Expose in UI the curid link (permalink to last revision) of a page by adding it to the respective action=info https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42238 What|Removed |Added Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED Resolution|WORKSFORME |--- -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Summary|Safe permanent link to a|[Short URLs] Safe permanent |page (e.g. using one of its |link to a page (e.g. using |history id) |one of its history id) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Depends on||16659 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Blocks||42085 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added CC||krinklem...@gmail.com --- Comment #25 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it 2012-11-18 10:40:46 UTC --- (In reply to comment #9) Do you think it would take many lines of code to implement a similar functionality for [[Special:Newest/190868168]] ? No. It would be easy to code. But i don't think it's the path to go. If its only reason is for safe links, curid already does that. Manually creating links to Special:Newest wouldn't be easier than creating curid links. Platonides, how safe is curid? (Krinkle on bug 42085 comment 14) (In reply to comment #13) Some short urls, which works: https://en.wikipedia.org?curid=15580374 https://en.wikipedia.org?diff=521573414 These have been discussed in the past and should never be used as a short url. Diff is a difference view, hardly useful. I assume that should be oldid instead: https://en.wikipedia.org?oldid=521573414 Which is a permanent link to a certain revision, however revisions can be removed, hidden or merged. And one probably wants to link to the latest version of an article. 'curid isn't very useful either because that links to the pageid, and articles can be renamed, deleted, re-created, merged, and split. What we want is link to a title, this is what the shorturl extension does. It creates a short unique ID for titles. ...which is wrong at least for renames because Roan said: (In comment #11) The point of curid links is to be able to link to a page even after a move, so that if [[Foo]] was moved to [[Bar]] later, a URL like http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=123 would point to the new name. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Depends on||42238 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Priority|Low |Normal Component|Special pages |General/Unknown -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Depends on||23427 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 --- Comment #26 from Krinkle krinklem...@gmail.com 2012-11-18 13:36:28 UTC --- (In reply to comment #25) (In reply to comment #9) Do you think it would take many lines of code to implement a similar functionality for [[Special:Newest/190868168]] ? No. It would be easy to code. But i don't think it's the path to go. If its only reason is for safe links, curid already does that. Manually creating links to Special:Newest wouldn't be easier than creating curid links. Platonides, how safe is curid? curid used to be a little unstable with pages that are deleted and then undeleted again, however it is pretty safe right now. However there is a fundamental difference between a permanent link to a page (for users) and a permanent link to an article on a certain subject (readers). (Krinkle on bug 42085 comment 14) (In reply to comment #13) Some short urls, which works: https://en.wikipedia.org?curid=15580374 https://en.wikipedia.org?diff=521573414 These have been discussed in the past and should never be used as a short url. Diff is a difference view, hardly useful. I assume that should be oldid instead: https://en.wikipedia.org?oldid=521573414 Which is a permanent link to a certain revision, however revisions can be removed, hidden or merged. And one probably wants to link to the latest version of an article. 'curid isn't very useful either because that links to the pageid, and articles can be renamed, deleted, re-created, merged, and split. What we want is link to a title, this is what the shorturl extension does. It creates a short unique ID for titles. ...which is wrong at least for renames because Roan said: (In comment #11) The point of curid links is to be able to link to a page even after a move, so that if [[Foo]] was moved to [[Bar]] later, a URL like http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=123 would point to the new name. As said, the shorturl discussed on bug 42085 is of different nature, I've therefore undid that erroneous dependency. In an editing context, you want a permanent link to the page, with its history and revisions (e.g. for patrolling an edit, or linking to a history page and what not). However if you want a permanent link for sharing to the article about Foo, then we use title ids[1] (not page ids), which is what the ShortUrl extension implements. See bug 42085 for more info on that. [1] For the exact reason Roan says. Because when you link to Foo, then you don't want to be linking to Foo (disambiguation) when it has been renamed, or if it was nominated for deletion and re-created 2 years later, you're linking to the title (not page) which is independent from time and space. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 Krinkle krinklem...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added Blocks|42085 | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 21572] [Short URLs] Safe permanent link to a page (e.g. using one of its history id)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21572 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Blocks||42085 --- Comment #27 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it 2012-11-18 15:51:14 UTC --- (In reply to comment #26) However if you want a permanent link for sharing to the article about Foo, then we use title ids[1] (not page ids), which is what the ShortUrl extension implements. See bug 42085 for more info on that. I've already read it and I disagree with what you say. This feature serves readers, which don't care e.g. if the article is moved to another title to respect lowercase/uppercase conventions, or to free it in order to create a disambiguation page, etc. If they want a permanent link, they just want to link the content they're seeing, which by definition will have to follow the history i.e. the page id. Permanent links to a title (which to be really permanent would need ?redirect=no) are surely another use case, which is useful mainly for editors – who care about exact titles, histories and archives to be dug, linking titles which currently have no content or a different content but in a far future will have what the title should have according to conventions, ... and such things –, but has some overlap with the previous point. Bug 42085 has currently three possible implementations: this bug, ShortUrl and LilURL-like; they should all be added as blockers until one is chosen, but the others don't have bugs AFAIK. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
